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Japanese air production - 1/22/2014 4:10:45 AM   
ndworl

 

Posts: 145
Joined: 8/20/2013
From: Brisbane, Australia
Status: offline 		Looking at the build options using PDU, I'm wondering about how to use the 320 size research factory for the Frank. The wonderful graphic for Japanese aircraft suggests the Tojo factory upgrades to Franks in 8/44. Now, if that is the case, I'm wondering why I would build a lot of factories to build Tojos (and I want lots of Tojos) when in 8/44 I get an automatic upgrade of those factries to Franks, plus the 320 unit, assuming I've built that one as well. That's a lot of Franks - at a big cost in supply to build all those factories. So I am considering converting the Frank research factory to Tojos instead. OK, by not researching Franks, I don't get the chance to get Franks earlier. But the Tojo is available MUCH sooner and is almost as good. So I would think the savings in supply in not building out two complete sets of factories would offset the risk of not getting the Franks earlier.

Obviously this all depends on the assumption that the Tojo factory upgrades to Franks in 8/44. I would appreciate any guidance on that as well as any suggestions on the approach I have proposed.
Post #: 1
RE: Japanese air production - 1/22/2014 10:58:30 AM   
tocaff


Posts: 4781
Joined: 10/12/2006
From: USA now in Brasil
Status: offline 		I'm stumped by this. In WITP there are no research factories, just factories. Of course you can set them to research in an effort to bring a certain plane type online faster.

_____________________________

Todd

I never thought that doing an AAR would be so time consuming and difficult.
www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2080768

(in reply to ndworl)
Post #: 2
RE: Japanese air production - 4/21/2014 8:58:38 PM   
engineer

 

Posts: 590
Joined: 9/8/2006
Status: offline 		I've most recently been playing CHS so please treat these answers in the context of that mod.

1) The 320 Frank factory starts with zero capacity so you need to invest 1000 supply points per plane of production to bring up that factory.
2) The Frank uses the advanced Nakajima engine and there is not a way to accelerate the engine introduction so even if you bring up the Frank factory, you can only advance the Frank intro to the point that the engine becomes available. (Tocaff is right about the research/production factory point, I presume you're talking about using "production" of accelerate aircraft model introduction.)
3) If you want to get at the factory earlier, the factories lose about 30% to 40% of their capacity when you change the airframe.  So you could change the factory from Frank to, say, a Tojo and get production earlier, but only by dropping the capacity to 200-240 planes/month.
4) Strategic Bombing:  If the Americans embark on an anti-Airframe campaign, this is the first factory on their target list since it will likely be the biggest aircraft factory in the Empire.  The Allies will have a harder time smashing a bunch of smaller factories than a few big factories, but that thread runs into building robustness into the Japanese production system.

(in reply to tocaff)
Post #: 3
RE: Japanese air production - 4/22/2014 1:58:51 PM   
turkey


Posts: 92
Joined: 3/1/2004
From: United Kingdom
Status: offline 		For my money, early in the game, I stop the repair of the Frank factory to save the supply for other more useful things like supporting invasions or building defences on far flung islands. The Frank is definitely superior to the Tojo especially in having 4 x 20mm cannon, more durable faster and more manoeuvrable and so IMHO it is well worth building, but not worth starting to repair the factory until late 42 or early 43. This still leaves plenty of time to repair the 320 factory and still have time enough to research the Frank and with a bit of luck get the (theoretical) three month advancement of the in-service date. Just a note but I find that research to get an earlier in-service date is a bit hit and miss and in any case don't expect to see any change until you are pretty close to the in-service date, but I believe it to be the case that a factory producing 300 plus R&D for Frank could advance the in-service date by as much as three months.

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Nobody ever defended anything successfully, there is only attack and attack and attack some more.
George S. Patton

(in reply to ndworl)
Post #: 4
RE: Japanese air production - 4/23/2014 8:57:57 AM   
ndworl

 

Posts: 145
Joined: 8/20/2013
From: Brisbane, Australia
Status: offline 		But that's my point Turkey. The Tojos convert anyway, so if I build out the Frank, I'll have maybe 450 of the things when the Tojo factories convert. So, the question is whether the production cost of building 320 frank factories is worth it to get them some three months early. I'm thinking not.

(in reply to ndworl)
Post #: 5
RE: Japanese air production - 4/23/2014 9:41:00 AM   
turkey


Posts: 92
Joined: 3/1/2004
From: United Kingdom
Status: offline 		Understood ndworl. I guess it depends on our different gameplay strategies. I'm in late August 43 as Japan vs a human player and have maintained momentum in the air battle so far but I am now facing Corsairs and Hellcats and finding the performance of my Tonys, Zekes and Jacks just isn't enough to handle these latest generation allied fighters so I am very concentrated on getting Georges and Franks as early as possible to dogfight on a more equal footing. At the same time allied massed heavy bomber raids against my frontline airfields are destroying loads of fighter airframes on the ground each day so I have ramped up production of my best aircraft types to around 400 per month to offset the airframe losses. My pilot supply and experience is OK as the airframes are being destroyed on the ground, all I need is more airframes, so for me it makes sense to build the Franks. Good luck with your game.

_____________________________

Nobody ever defended anything successfully, there is only attack and attack and attack some more.
George S. Patton

(in reply to ndworl)
Post #: 6
RE: Japanese air production - 4/23/2014 9:52:10 AM   
ndworl

 

Posts: 145
Joined: 8/20/2013
From: Brisbane, Australia
Status: offline 		Perhaps not so much different strategies as different experience. I'm in my first game and I'm in January 1943. (The question relates to early decisions for a second game, for which as yet I have no opponent.) It is beyond my comprehension that you would need production of 400 frames a month. My experience to date has been the pilot pool has been the limiting factor rather than production. Food for thought indeed.

(in reply to ndworl)
Post #: 7
RE: Japanese air production - 4/23/2014 9:49:52 PM   
engineer

 

Posts: 590
Joined: 9/8/2006
Status: offline 		Ah, you haven't faced ueberCAP yet.  The game can quite easily replicate the Marianas Turkey Shoot.  Put 8-10 carriers in the same hex, and they pool their CAP (however you have them organized into task forces).  Put the fighters on 70 to 80% CAP and you might end up with 250 or 300 fighters on CAP.  The incoming strikes will likely be shredded.  Mid morale strikes will turn back and high morale strikes will press on to the last plane and maybe a few percent of the bombers will get through with the balance shot down.  Early number air wings from the defending carriers (i.e. Lexington/Saratoga or Kaga/Akagi respectively) will take disproportionate losses among the defenders since they always engage first. 

If you are playing AI, the main thing will be to keep your carriers in the same hex so the opposing Naval missions don't pounce on the straggler.  Do that and then pick your favorite historical one-sided rout:  Jena-Auerstadt, Agincourt, Ulundi, Omdurman, Philippine Sea, for comparison.  The 1944 USN is the stuff of nightmares for the Combined Fleet.  You can lose 500 to 800 aircraft in a day if the Amercans have a solid UeberCAP of Hellcats/Corsairs in place.    


(in reply to ndworl)
Post #: 8
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