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SP: Civil War Teaser - 2/11/2003 12:25:25 PM   
David boutwell

 

Posts: 353
Joined: 5/28/2000
From: Haymarket, Virginia, USA
Status: offline 		Gentlemen,

As a few of you may know, I have chosen to pick up the torch that several SP gamers have offered up. That "torch" is "SP: Civil War". This mod. was in the works for a long time, and I awaited its release with anticipation. Alas, when it was posted it, it was far short of completion, and there were a lot of problems with it. So, I decided to see what I could do to rescue it.

Since then, I have been doing things such as researching weapons values, experimenting with infantry icons and working on modifying terrain icons to create a battlefield that more closely resembles 1860's North America than 1940's Europe.

To prove that i mean business, and to show you a little bit of my progress, a I wanted to pass along a screen shot of some modifications to existing infantry icons, as well as some new terrain icons that I have made.

Notice how the company fronts join to make a flawless battle line at maximum strength, and notice the new rock wall icons with split rail fences over them, a common approach to increasing the height of a low rock wall.

That is just the start, guys. My goal is to create split rail fences and adapt the building icons to portray 1860's American structures, as well. Stay tuned....

By the way, you should hear the period Civil War music in the menu screens, as well as the cool volley fire!

Regards,

David Boutwell
Post #: 1
Wow ! - 2/11/2003 5:38:30 PM   
CatLord


Posts: 312
Joined: 10/21/2002
From: Lausanne, Switzerland
Status: offline 		That's pretty cool :)

Cat

(in reply to David boutwell)
Post #: 2
- 2/11/2003 9:02:15 PM   
Warhorse


Posts: 5712
Joined: 5/12/2000
From: Birdsboro, PA, USA
Status: offline 		Nicely done, David!!

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Mike Amos

Meine Ehre heißt Treue
www.cslegion.com

(in reply to David boutwell)
Post #: 3
- 2/11/2003 9:54:06 PM   
Sturmpionier


Posts: 99
Joined: 4/29/2002
From: Jennings, FL, USA
Status: offline 		Excellent!

Many will thank you in the end. (Me included.)

_____________________________

"Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun." - Ash

(in reply to David boutwell)
Post #: 4
- 2/11/2003 10:16:05 PM   
mlomax

 

Posts: 162
Joined: 11/25/2002
From: Colorado Springs, CO.
Status: offline 		Cool, It looks great:)

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Post #: 5
Bravissimo ! - 2/12/2003 1:00:12 AM   
Sergio Castaldi

 

Posts: 99
Joined: 11/22/2001
From: Naples,Italy
Status: offline 		This is a great job David.

J wish to have this beautiful mod of Spwaw.

Bravissimo


Sergio "Zingales" Castaldi

(in reply to David boutwell)
Post #: 6
That is truly... - 2/12/2003 11:47:16 AM   
Orzel Bialy


Posts: 2664
Joined: 4/4/2002
From: Wisconsin USA
Status: offline 		some really nice work David...I tip my Iron Brigade western style hat to you! ;)

This could indeed take us in a new direction. :)

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Post #: 7
- 2/13/2003 11:09:34 AM   
dlazov

 

Posts: 185
Joined: 11/14/2002
From: Chicago IL
Status: offline 		That Civil War Mod looks really cool.
Has anyone done a WW1 Mod?

My next question is would I have to install three separate instances of SP one for each mode so that I could play each one with out disrupting my orignal SP WaW install? That would take up a lot of space, it would be nice if you could select it some how.

Do you want to play:

SP Napoleaonics
SP Civil War
SP WW 1
SP WW 2
SP Modern

Or am I day-dreaming again?

_____________________________

DGL

An army of rabbits led by a lion, will beat an army of lions, led by a Rabbit. Napoleon

(in reply to David boutwell)
Post #: 8
for Dlazov - 2/14/2003 1:54:12 AM   
Sergio Castaldi

 

Posts: 99
Joined: 11/22/2001
From: Naples,Italy
Status: offline 		Dlazov,

Do you have Sp Modern ?

If yes can you send me at
[email]tatkdg@tin.it[/email]

Thank you

Sergio "Zingales" Castaldi.

(in reply to David boutwell)
Post #: 9
- 2/15/2003 5:01:41 PM   
m10bob


Posts: 8622
Joined: 11/3/2002
From: Dismal Seepage Indiana
Status: offline 		Beautiful art work........This game engine has got to be more "accurate" than "Rifles",(and that was a good game too!..):cool:

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Post #: 10
- 2/17/2003 6:44:17 AM   
David boutwell

 

Posts: 353
Joined: 5/28/2000
From: Haymarket, Virginia, USA
Status: offline 		Thanks for the positive support, guys. Keep in mind that Sami and others did a good bit of work on this mod. for several years. The menu screens are definitely nice, and although I would say that I'm pretty good at modifying icons, without the good start made by the guys who started this mod, I don't think that I could have gotten this far.

With the momentum that Sami's crew provided me, I have been inspired to learn how to create icons from scratch, and have had several ideas since starting this endeavor. I decided to take the wall/split rail icons back to the drawing board, because it doesn't look natural to have this combination only with sandstone fences. I copied the "regular" fence icons (42) to (54), so the split rail/wall combo can be placed with the regular walls to look much more realistic. While working on these icons, I have developed a better mental image of what I want the split rail fences to look like.

I've also thought of what fortified artillery positions would look like (these would be fortication icons), and in the place of barbed wire, I am going to make icons for those wooden spike "thingies" with the French name that escapes me at the moment. These would be cool for scenarios on Fort Fisher (of Glory Fame), Vicksburg and the numerous Union amphibious attacks on coastal fortifications.

These are some things on my wish list that would make this mod. very, very cool. "Need" in this paragraph, obviously means "I dream of having it". First, I "need" more infantry icons in order to create the diversity in uniforms such as green sharpshooter regiment and Zouave uniforms. Second, I would like to be able to change formations (column to line, break companies into skirmish formations and recall them, etc.). I would like to have combat multipliers/bonuses for firing at a unit from it flank.

Now, here's something you guys can help me with. Although most confrontations were settled before anyone had the opportunity to use a bayonet or a rifle butt on somebody, there were, no doubt, many instances of hand-to-hand combat. Therefore, I need to develop a weapon/weapons for these instances. Does anyone have any ideas?

Also, keeping in mind that in the editor the range of a weapon is multiplied by 4 (50 yards/meters =4), if I want to use 25 yard hexes, what would a range of 1 hex be in the editor? (2????)

According to Sami, Matrix encouraged him to develop a mod. for age of musket. I'm not sure what they were encouraging, based on the fact that, in order to do this thing right, a programming Wizard with the ability to make some major chamges would need to be involved. So, Matrix guys, if the needed changes were made, it would open up a whole new world of opportunities for Steel Panthers fans. Let's see...you've got your Revolutionary War, British Empire "Little Wars", English Civil War.....the list goes on...

Regards,

David Boutwell

(in reply to David boutwell)
Post #: 11
- 2/17/2003 7:08:44 AM   
tracer


Posts: 1865
Joined: 11/22/2000
From: New Smyrna Beach, FL USA
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by David boutwell
[B]
Now, here's something you guys can help me with. Although most confrontations were settled before anyone had the opportunity to use a bayonet or a rifle butt on somebody, there were, no doubt, many instances of hand-to-hand combat. Therefore, I need to develop a weapon/weapons for these instances. Does anyone have any ideas?
[/B][/QUOTE]

I think the 'melee' function would work very well here, assuming the attacking unit could reach the defender's hex...otherwise you could add something like 'pistol x3' to simulate hand to hand weapons. If you're looking for values of weapons from this era you could check out the guerilla squads in the Phillipines OOB...they're armed with bows & arrows and a bolo. :eek:

[QUOTE]Originally posted by David boutwell
[B] These would be cool for scenarios on Fort Fisher (of Glory Fame),
[/B][/QUOTE]

That was Battery Wagner ;)

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Jim NSB

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Post #: 12
- 2/17/2003 11:43:01 AM   
David boutwell

 

Posts: 353
Joined: 5/28/2000
From: Haymarket, Virginia, USA
Status: offline 		"That was Battery Wagner"

I stand corrected...Fort Fisher is the Texas Ranger Hall of Fame, about an hour from where I grew up!...That's what happens when you try to think clearly after shoveling two feet of snow off of a 100 foot drive!

Regards,

David Boutwell

(in reply to David boutwell)
Post #: 13
- 2/18/2003 7:51:01 AM   
David boutwell

 

Posts: 353
Joined: 5/28/2000
From: Haymarket, Virginia, USA
Status: offline 		I just thought of a new idea....

Unless one was playing a Civil War scenario in California (just kidding), vineyard icons are pretty much useless, although I have no idea when the first wineries in America were established. In their place, I want to create icons for cornfields. I think this would be a better use of the space in the map editing menu. The green fields don't really look like corn crops. They look more like beans or something. Compared to the wheatfield icons, they are too small and close together to be corn. I intend to replace the vineyard icons with copies of the plowed fields icons, then modify the plowed field icons to create cornfield icons.

By the way. Does anyone have any idea how to replace the names of the terrain icons that I am replacing??? It would be nice for the hex info. to say "cornfield" as opposed to "vineyard". After all, Hood's Texas Brigade was engaged in Farmer Miller's Cornfield, not at Terrara winery.

Hey Guys....It sure is sad to think that everyone will get all excited about Gods and Generals, and not have an outlet for that desire to pick up an Enfield or Springfield and blast away at someone at 40 paces!

Regards,

David Boutwell

(in reply to David boutwell)
Post #: 14
- 2/18/2003 7:14:21 PM   
Warrior


Posts: 1808
Joined: 11/2/2000
From: West Palm Beach, FL USA
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by David boutwell
[B]I just thought of a new idea....

Unless one was playing a Civil War scenario in California (just kidding), vineyard icons are pretty much useless, although I have no idea when the first wineries in America were established. In their place, I want to create icons for cornfields. I think this would be a better use of the space in the map editing menu. The green fields don't really look like corn crops. They look more like beans or something. Compared to the wheatfield icons, they are too small and close together to be corn. I intend to replace the vineyard icons with copies of the plowed fields icons, then modify the plowed field icons to create cornfield icons. [/B][/QUOTE]

Some cotton fields would be good, too.

Keep up the good work, David, Sami, and all involved. When it's all finialized I look forward to giving it a run.

_____________________________

Retreat is NOT an option.



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Post #: 15
- 2/18/2003 9:57:20 PM   
tracer


Posts: 1865
Joined: 11/22/2000
From: New Smyrna Beach, FL USA
Status: offline 		David,
I don't know of a way to change the names displayed for terrain types on maps; the technique I've always seen used is to 'add type' describing the specialized terrain.

Vineyards vs fields: remember that vineyards have different LOS characteristics than other agricultural terrain types...you can only see adjacent hexes in a vineyard.

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Jim NSB

(in reply to David boutwell)
Post #: 16
- 2/19/2003 7:25:12 AM   
David boutwell

 

Posts: 353
Joined: 5/28/2000
From: Haymarket, Virginia, USA
Status: offline 		At this point, it's just me. Sami's group no longer exists, according to him, and I was never part of it. I stepped in after downloading their mod. and seeing how much potential it had, although it was in pretty bad shape. But, except for the need for a good programmer, I'd almost rather work alone. Sami's group did a nice job on the menu screens, but in light of the fact that they were working on SPCW for several years, they made relatively little progress. Apparently, there were too many chiefs with too many different visions of what the final product should look like.

What I'm gonna do is do as much as I can, and hopefully the final product will encourage someone to step in and fix the things that I can't. I keep coming up with good ideas for the "eye candy" part of this mod., but the part that requires programming will not be what it could be...

Regards,

David Boutwell

(in reply to David boutwell)
Post #: 17
- 2/19/2003 8:00:38 AM   
David boutwell

 

Posts: 353
Joined: 5/28/2000
From: Haymarket, Virginia, USA
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by tracer
[B]David,
I don't know of a way to change the names displayed for terrain types on maps; the technique I've always seen used is to 'add type' describing the specialized terrain.

Vineyards vs fields: remember that vineyards have different LOS characteristics than other agricultural terrain types...you can only see adjacent hexes in a vineyard. [/B][/QUOTE]


Exactly. Anyone who has picked corn or driven by 6-8 ft. corn, or seen "Signs" or "Field of Dreams" knows that you can't see more than a few rows in mature corn. Accounts of the fight for the Miller Cornfield at Antietam describe men only being able to see the flags of their opponents throught the corn. So this aspect of the LOS for vineyards is perfect. This should guarantee some blistering firefights at point-blank range. The regular field icons can be used for corn that is newly planted or less than head high.

Regards,

David Boutwell

(in reply to David boutwell)
Post #: 18
- 2/19/2003 8:06:03 AM   
dlazov

 

Posts: 185
Joined: 11/14/2002
From: Chicago IL
Status: offline 		David wrote

[QUOTE]At this point, it's just me. Sami's group no longer exists, according to him, and I was never part of it. I stepped in after downloading their mod. and seeing how much potential it had, although it was in pretty bad shape. But, except for the need for a good programmer, I'd almost rather work alone. [/QUOTE]

David, so far have you just made modifications to the images?

How would a "programmer" help you? Do you have source code?

I was wondering how Leo did the H2H mod?

_____________________________

DGL

An army of rabbits led by a lion, will beat an army of lions, led by a Rabbit. Napoleon

(in reply to David boutwell)
Post #: 19
- 2/19/2003 9:27:55 AM   
David boutwell

 

Posts: 353
Joined: 5/28/2000
From: Haymarket, Virginia, USA
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by dlazov
[B]David wrote



David, so far have you just made modifications to the images?

How would a "programmer" help you? Do you have source code?

I was wondering how Leo did the H2H mod? [/B][/QUOTE]

dlazov,

At this point, yes. I have made changes to the infantry and cavalry icons, and plan to work on the artillery icons , limbers and caissons. I want to create artillery icons that are unique to each gun, like in SPWAW. I have been working on creating terrain icons for a rock wall/split rail fence combination and split rail fences. I want to tweak the bridge icons so that they look more like bridges from 19th century America, and I am working on fixing the building icons for the same purpose. I've also found and added several hundred LBM files for the OoB's that I have been working on. Lately, I've been coming up with new ideas daily, so this list is by no means final.

I am really not sure what someone who knew how to get "inside" the game could do. But, like I've stated in earlier posts, there are things that I'm sure someone could do that would improve the mod. First, I'd love to be able to increase the number of infantry icons, so that there can be a greater variety of uniforms represented. Second, I'd love for someone to figure out a way to give fire bonuses when a unit fires at another unit from the flank or rear, similar (but not quite like) to the system in place with armor in SPWAW. Third, I'd like to be able to change formations (column to line of battle, etc.), and fourth, I'd like to have the descriptions of the new terrain icons be correct (wooden fence, not hedge).

I've not played the H2H mod., but if I was forced to guess, I'd guess that he changed a lot of the values that can be easily changed with the editor, as well as added new units.

Regards,

David Boutwell

(in reply to David boutwell)
Post #: 20
- 2/23/2003 12:23:10 PM   
David boutwell

 

Posts: 353
Joined: 5/28/2000
From: Haymarket, Virginia, USA
Status: offline 		Just another glimpse at progress....

The attached image shows a Confederate regiment marching in column down a road flanked by fields of tall corn. The fence to their left is a rock wall topped by a split rail fence. The fence to their right is a post and rail fence, although the image quality is such that it doesn't look that great (it actually looks much better). These are all custom icons.

More to come...

Regards,

David Boutwell

(in reply to David boutwell)
Post #: 21
- 2/23/2003 1:02:09 PM   
tracer


Posts: 1865
Joined: 11/22/2000
From: New Smyrna Beach, FL USA
Status: offline 		Incredible progress IMO!! Since no one has really gotten inside the Pandora's Box of SP programming, changing values with the Editor to get the de facto result you're shooting for is the best you can do. When Panzer Leo wanted to remove the arty casualty messages in H2H he ran into a similar stone wall (pun?)...there was no access to that part of the code. His solution was to change the position of the message boxes; a value that [I]can[/I] be modified. They now display at the very top of the screen and the text within cannot be read...goal achieved.

Of course there's not a back door or workaround for everything, but maybe looking at some of these roadblocks from a different perspective will show alternative paths.

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Jim NSB

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Post #: 22
- 2/24/2003 6:04:50 AM   
Bing

 

Posts: 1366
Joined: 5/20/2000
From: Gaylord, MI, USA
Status: offline 		" ...there were, no doubt, many instances of hand-to-hand combat. Therefore, I need to develop a weapon/weapons for these instances. Does anyone have any ideas?"

Cold steel. Bayonets and sabres. The "melee" feature would have to be a lot more user friendly than it is now, however.

While you are at it, I don't see how you can do an ACW module without a real Johnny Reb yell.

Bing

_____________________________

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From the 101st Airborne Division Association Website

(in reply to David boutwell)
Post #: 23
- 2/24/2003 11:59:36 AM   
David boutwell

 

Posts: 353
Joined: 5/28/2000
From: Haymarket, Virginia, USA
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bing
[B]" ...there were, no doubt, many instances of hand-to-hand combat. Therefore, I need to develop a weapon/weapons for these instances. Does anyone have any ideas?"

Cold steel. Bayonets and sabres. The "melee" feature would have to be a lot more user friendly than it is now, however.

While you are at it, I don't see how you can do an ACW module without a real Johnny Reb yell.

Bing [/B][/QUOTE]

I added "bayonet" to my units several days ago. I gave it a one hex range, and gave it a .wav file of melee combat from the Battleground Series. Sure enough, a Union company using AI attacked one of my Confederate companies, got into an adjacent hex, and all of a sudden, I heard this melee combat sound. I checked to see if melee had been initiated, but it had not. I suddenly realized what had happened. The Union company had used cold steel, or the threat of it, to force my Confederate unit to vacate the hex without melee combat. According to research, this is exactly what happened most of the time. documentation from medical reports indicates that few battlefield deaths were caused by the bayonet. So it wasn't the bayonet itself that made the other guy run. It was one guy with a bayonet and bigger balls than the other guy. In this confrontation I mentioned above, the Confederate unit lost 1 casualty, but ran all the same. That's just the way it should be. There's the threat "diplay" (Maori and Zulu warriors doing war chants, for example) that gives you the chance to hit the road with minimal or no losses. But if that doesn't do the trick, there's the actual melee function. Then someone is really gonna get hurt!

Regards,

David Boutwell

(in reply to David boutwell)
Post #: 24
- 2/24/2003 12:12:04 PM   
David boutwell

 

Posts: 353
Joined: 5/28/2000
From: Haymarket, Virginia, USA
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bing
[B]" ...there were, no doubt, many instances of hand-to-hand combat. Therefore, I need to develop a weapon/weapons for these instances. Does anyone have any ideas?"

Cold steel. Bayonets and sabres. The "melee" feature would have to be a lot more user friendly than it is now, however.

While you are at it, I don't see how you can do an ACW module without a real Johnny Reb yell.

Bing [/B][/QUOTE]

I added "bayonet" to my units several days ago. I gave it a one hex range, and gave it a .wav file of melee combat from the Battleground Series. Sure enough, a Union company using AI attacked one of my Confederate companies, got into an adjacent hex, and all of a sudden, I heard this melee combat sound. I checked to see if melee had been initiated, but it had not. I suddenly realized what had happened. The Union company had used cold steel, or the threat of it, to force my Confederate unit to vacate the hex without melee combat. According to research, this is exactly what happened most of the time. documentation from medical reports indicates that few battlefield deaths were caused by the bayonet. So it wasn't the bayonet itself that made the other guy run. It was one guy with a bayonet and bigger balls than the other guy. In this confrontation I mentioned above, the Confederate unit lost 1 casualty, but ran all the same. That's just the way it should be. There's the threat "diplay" (Maori and Zulu warriors doing war chants, for example) that gives you the chance to hit the road with minimal or no losses. But if that doesn't do the trick, there's the actual melee function. Then someone is really gonna get hurt!

Regards,

David Boutwell

(in reply to David boutwell)
Post #: 25
ETA - 2/27/2003 5:13:02 AM   
dfsrusa

 

Posts: 62
Joined: 3/26/2001
From: St. Paul, Minnesota
Status: offline 		What's your ETA on this mod being available?

I'd given up hope on ever seeing it. Kudos to you for picking up the flag again.

Scot Stephenson

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Carpe Diem

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Post #: 26
Can Cowboys & Indians be far behind - 2/28/2003 2:24:59 AM   
BORO

 

Posts: 25
Joined: 6/18/2002
From: Rochester, Wa.
Status: offline 		David,
Kudos from me as well for taking this long awaited project on. Can't help much other than to offer to playtest, which from the response I'm seeing will be the least of your worries. Keep the screenshots coming.
Boro:)

_____________________________

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(in reply to David boutwell)
Post #: 27
- 2/28/2003 8:19:21 AM   
David boutwell

 

Posts: 353
Joined: 5/28/2000
From: Haymarket, Virginia, USA
Status: offline 		Scott, I have no idea when it will be finished. I don't really know what "finished will look like at this time. I am neck deep in the middle of modifying terrain icons, buildings ( I am downloading images of historical buildings from Civil War battlefields with the intention of reproducing specific building icons, for ex., Gettysburg Cemetery gatehouse, Trostle and Codori farmhouses and barns, McPherson Barn, Dunker Church, to name a few) and artillery icons. I havew numerous ideas about other things that I want to work on, but as Tracer can attest, modifying icons (all four zoom levels) is a lot of work. I have nearly perfected the procedure with those that I have started so far. In addition, I have to "paint" all of the new ones as jpegs before I convert them to shp icons. There is a lot of work, and I can only work on them when I have no other responsabilities around the house and with work. I am currently putting about three hours a day into the process. I don't know how long it will take. After I'm through with the icons, then, I will have to focus more on the OoB's. After that, I'll have to learn the process of "packaging" the mod. so that it can be downloaded by others.

I can tell you this, though. I will finish it! And I will do a good job of it. That is the only way, anyone will do anything more with it after I have gotten it as far as I can.

I have to say this though. I played around a little with some map editing, and the post and rail fence surrounding a nice, square field of corn next to a farmhouse, sitting next to a lane flanked by a rock wall sure looks cool. Everytime I work on something like that, I just have to purchase a regiment or two of Yanks and Rebs and have a little shootout!

BORO, I'll be sure and post a screenshot, periodically, just for you!

Regards,

David Boutwell

(in reply to David boutwell)
Post #: 28
- 3/2/2003 1:03:00 AM   
RockinHarry


Posts: 2963
Joined: 1/18/2001
From: Germany
Status: offline 		David...did you abandon works on your Market Garden campaign? :(

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Post #: 29
- 3/2/2003 10:35:30 AM   
David boutwell

 

Posts: 353
Joined: 5/28/2000
From: Haymarket, Virginia, USA
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by RockinHarry
[B]David...did you abandon works on your Market Garden campaign? :( [/B][/QUOTE]

Harry,

No Way!! My Market Garden maps and books still clutter my office desk. I did, however need a break from WWII for a while, for reasons that I've harped on on numerous occasions.

This project allows me kind of take a journey back in time to the old days of SP1, when a lot of people in the community were pioneering new things in the game. It also allows me to focus my attention on doing some things that I really like to do.
1. Research 2. Icon design 3. OoB modification And, now, there are many more available tools than back in the old days, and I am much more knowledgeable about how to use them.

It has gotten to the point with SPWAW where I feel like I'm just working on projects for myself anyway. My philosophy about the game has put me on the fringe of the community, and therefore, I often am of the mindset that it doesn't really matter when I finish the Market Garden campaign. If I am doing it for myself only, there is no pressure to complete it any faster than I am comfortable with.

I kind of got wrapped up in the "competition hype" in the community, as well as trying to get my material out in front of every new guy that came into the community claiming to be this or that. I just needed a beak from all of that junk. So, when I have dt'd a bit, I will get back to the WWII projects. Not to worry. I still have lots of things to finish in the MG area.

Thanks for asking! You have definitely been instrumental in my learning to do a lot of the editing stuff that I am now using on SPCW.

Regards,

David Boutwell

(in reply to David boutwell)
Post #: 30
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