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RE: Java finally conquered - 6/18/2014 8:44:37 AM   
obvert


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe


quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

The use of B-29s by the AI is going to give you no idea how they will work in the hands of a good human. The AI is relentless, doesn't stand them down, but more importantly will not prioritize targets that a PBEM opponent would, consistently. They work best massed, with 3-5 days rest between missions.

In answer to your Ki-83 question, yes, it's a MUST have. The Ki-83 has wicked range and will fight evenly or better with anything.

The Ki-100 pretty much sucks, yet I say it's a must as it's all you can get at service 1 that has a chance in late war. With Symon's air frame recalculations it gets a boost to closer to what it was in the war, but in stock it's slower than a Tojo. Good for lower level CAP but will suffer against any Allied fighter.



Thanks, all very good points. So far, I can only find 22 squadrons that become night fighters, and then some of them get taken out of service late war...which means you can try to protect maybe 3 areas...if that. A pretty bleak picture.




Yes. Never enough.

You've probably looked, but there are some NF groups that come from recon groups, FB groups, and other strange places. At some point in 43 I just recombined all of my groups to see what the upgrades would be and came up with a few I hadn't known about.

The use of NF doesn't have to be a static thing, only defending three bases. The HI is a pretty small area and you can have them mutually supporting with a few hexes range, but most groups in the bigger centers. You really need them to disrupt the bombing more than to shoot down B-29s. With the time needed to stand down between missions, even making a run less effective is a win sometimes.

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Post #: 961
RE: Java finally conquered - 6/18/2014 11:24:19 AM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert
You've probably looked, but there are some NF groups that come from recon groups, FB groups, and other strange places.


I have found the first two, but I haven't gone thru the navy yet to find odd upgrades. Do you remember any?

I get the Endo detachment soon. 2 Irv night fighters, and it recombines with a splinter recon unit already active. Unfortunately, the splinter active now doesn't upgrade to a NF.

Speaking of Nicks, I am going to increase my r&d on the Nick NF, but I am also currently building 60 Nicks a month and I got to thinking that most of those squadrons will upgrade to the NF, meaning I will probably have way too many daytime Nicks...although I hate to spend the PP, I am thinking about converting some Ann or Sonias over to Nicks. 270 points each, shudder.

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Post #: 962
RE: Java finally conquered - 6/18/2014 11:36:58 AM   
Lowpe


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So far so good at moving large numbers of troops without submarine losses. There are infantry divisions, tanks, art, eng, aa, hqs moving all over the place...for most I have included a CL or AMC or AV with float planes to help keep subs submerged.

My Tojo sweep of Rangoon goes down in flames as the Sea Hurricane bounce them on altitude, but a measure of revenge is achieved when Tojo cap vectors in over Rangoon to attack allied bombers hitting the troops there.

Port Moresby level 6 airfield is officially closed, there are only three units defending there, 10,000 men. IJA attack forces are on the way. The KB and miniKB are all close by, but hopefully won't be needed. Judy-c doing stellar job with long range recon.

Troops for the invasion of Derby are loading now, and will probably hit the beaches with 35 percent prep if I send them immediately....I would like to get over 50 prep. Paratroops, transports, fighters and bombers are ready for Wyndham. Supplies ready.

I am moving heavy cruisers to the Burma region, I keep thinking he will try to evacuate the troops in Rangoon....taking appropriate measures.

Attack at Ambon lowers forts to 1. One more attack will take the stubborn base. That will free up the fleet there for the northern Australia attack with plenty of time.


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Post #: 963
RE: Java finally conquered - 6/18/2014 11:50:55 AM   
koniu


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe


Thanks, all very good points. So far, I can only find 22 squadrons that become night fighters


Can You give us list of those squadrons????


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Post #: 964
RE: Java finally conquered - 6/18/2014 11:55:23 AM   
ny59giants


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Status: offline 		How effective has your ASW efforts been to date?? Number of subs sunk??

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Post #: 965
RE: Java finally conquered - 6/18/2014 12:05:06 PM   
obvert


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quote:

ORIGINAL: koniu


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe


Thanks, all very good points. So far, I can only find 22 squadrons that become night fighters


Can You give us list of those squadrons????



Here it is thanks to Feurer Krieg in my Wild Sheep AAR. Here is the page link with lots more info as well.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=3529026






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Post #: 966
RE: Java finally conquered - 6/18/2014 12:16:42 PM   
Lowpe


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Status: offline 		I think I might have found another army unit...will check when I get home today.

EDIT: Nope the above list is what I have too.

< Message edited by Lowpe -- 6/19/2014 12:38:28 AM >

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RE: Java finally conquered - 6/18/2014 12:33:57 PM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

How effective has your ASW efforts been to date?? Number of subs sunk??


Not that good, to be honest. I had no air trained bomber groups in ASW when I took over...I have a few now, plus I have managed to upgrade my E, SC and DD mostly. Mostly I can keep subs spotted...

The Allies are good at moving their submarines around to avoid effective bombers.

Subs have managed to put one into a CV, which led me to make a mistake and lose her, one into a CVL (which lived), a few into BB/CA for yard time, nailed a few tankers mostly the 2 vp conversions. Where they have been nasty is laying mines...caught quite a few of my ships that way.

Escort PBs are way short, I don't know what the previous Japanese player did, but losses among the convertible xakls and pbs are extremely high...

I am trying very hard to get a good aerial ASW path up in time for working torpedoes. Duds have saved many a ship.

All three SSTs are done for too, which is very nice.




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Post #: 968
RE: Java finally conquered - 6/18/2014 11:46:39 PM   
Lowpe


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Status: offline 		Ok, I have thought about the Ki 202 vs the Ki 201, and I am going to go after the Ki 202.

It probably is a mistake, but should be fun and interesting. Reasoning:

1. Comes sooner.
2. 1 engine
3. both planes ram bombers
4. might work against allied fighters
5. Sr 4 vs 5
6. I am curious if they work


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Post #: 969
RE: Java finally conquered - 6/19/2014 1:54:43 AM   
Lowpe


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Lightnings sweep Tavoy and shoot down a dozen or so for no loss...night bombing his airfield with 50 planes and 100 percent moonlight to pay him back. I generally have no success with night bombing, but you never know.

If I can't fight in the air, then at least I can make their air fields somewhat uncomfortable...bombardment of Rangoon catches a few fighters. Will go in again today, and a second bombardment group is coming up. Perhaps I can close the airfield...however I worry about his fleet showing up to challenge me. Lots of Betties and even some Nells around to in case he does...

More moving troops, supply flowing back into Burma, with all the extra troops headed here, I have increased the pipeline substantially.

Upcoming: hopefully the last attack at Ambon; Darwin's port will be hit by Helens, and four unknown ships have shown up in Broome.

The A6M5c is now advanced to 3/43 -- they will be running off the assembly lines in January.




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RE: Java finally conquered - 6/19/2014 2:02:58 AM   
Lowpe


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Status: offline 		The more I mess around with Downfall, the more I learn.

Saving Tracom pilots for NF duty sure makes sense to me. They are the only fighter pilots that don't ram bombers...

When your sentai of Ki-201s with elite pilots decide to ram bombers you just want to cringe...

I have been really shocked with how well the Myrt NF does! Too bad it comes so late...my first Peggy and Frances groups come on line shortly and I have high hopes for them as well. They will be my night fighters of choice in this game.







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< Message edited by Lowpe -- 6/19/2014 3:05:19 AM >

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RE: Java finally conquered - 6/19/2014 10:28:57 AM   
Lowpe


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My night time bombing raid scores one runway hit and damages two planes.

Normal bombings in Burma by the Allies, at Port Moresby by the Japanese. No losses to submarines.

I lost my first Judy-c recon to cap over Makin. Jakes would die every day there...

Troops moving everywhere: Infantry Division to Canton, ART/INF/ENG/AA to Singers, Infantry Divisions/ENG to Buna, ARM/INF/ENG to Banda Sea, Surface ships to Tavoy, ENG to the Marianas...nothing hindering any of the task forces.




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Post #: 972
RE: Java finally conquered - 6/19/2014 11:14:09 AM   
Lowpe


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Status: offline 		Forgot to mention that Ambon held on, the Gull detachment doesn't really want to surrender. Tough Aussies! I tried to take Ambon on the cheap with 4 naval guards and 1 combat engineer and it didn't work. I think I lost 3 xaks to the coastal guns, plus hefty damage to a bunch of cruisers and destroyers with the original landing despite two battleships working over the coastal guns.


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Post #: 973
RE: Java finally conquered - 6/19/2014 12:16:07 PM   
obvert


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Status: offline 		The key for the Frances NF is the durability and armor. It can stick it out.

< Message edited by obvert -- 6/19/2014 1:16:37 PM >

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Post #: 974
RE: Java finally conquered - 6/20/2014 12:41:26 AM   
Lowpe


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Quiet day with lots of troop movement. LR CAP Paoshin trying to nail transports, no joy.

Re-reading Saburo's Samurai and he writes that landing the infantry division at Buna for a march overland was a terrible mistake for Japan.

Exactly what I am doing, we will find out....if it is my waterloo too.

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Post #: 975
RE: Java finally conquered - 6/20/2014 7:53:08 AM   
obvert


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Status: offline 		Supply through the mountains will be tough even if you get enough there to take PM. Some players have been successful going over the Owen Stanleys though, notably rader who marched many divisions over and took it to the consternation of most players who realized that in reality this was utterly impossible.

I may have missed it, but is there a reason you're not just sailing around Milne Bay and landing at PM?

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Post #: 976
RE: Java finally conquered - 6/20/2014 11:02:18 AM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

I may have missed it, but is there a reason you're not just sailing around Milne Bay and landing at PM?


No, not really. I haven't decided 100% either way yet. Two infantry divisions are steaming to Rabual for now from the DEI so I have plenty of time to decide and coordinate.



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Post #: 977
RE: Java finally conquered - 6/20/2014 11:45:02 AM   
Lowpe


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Several Lightning sweeps across the wide world, the opposition is at Tavoy where some Zeroes were CAP some AKEs, 5 Zeroes shot down for 1 Lightning. Par for the course.

Two bombardments going in at Rangoon, which now has 60 Allied fighters...maybe I will catch some on the ground there.

More troop movements...this day an Allied submarine got an attack on a xAP and missed. The sub got punished with a few hits.

Timeline of future attacks:

5 Days: Northern Australia - Wyndham and Derby attacks.
10 - 15 Days: Port Moresby
Rangoon: Ongoing...
China: moving slowly ahead...3 divisions are heading here to finish off the Changsha pocket and move into the central plains.

The A6M5c advances to 2/43...4-5 days for 1/43 so the new year will finally see an armored fighter.

With the working torpedoes just around the corner I will be changing my tanker/cargo fleet composition based upon areas. All large tankers are going to form up and get some
professional flagships, the AVs will be used heavily with tankers, as I really need to start moving the fuel and oil very safely in 1943.





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< Message edited by Lowpe -- 6/20/2014 2:04:05 PM >

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RE: Java finally conquered - 6/20/2014 1:25:38 PM   
Lowpe


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Status: offline 		Fighting the lousy Lightning sweeps:

1. I will be trying to use Nicks at 10,000 feet (thanks ny59giants)

2. I will be trying out the KAI Dinah at 5,000 feet.

3. Next month, the A6M5c at 10,000 feet will be used as a support sentai instead of Tojo IIa.

The low CAP is to maximize my agility.

For the most part, Tiemanj has reduced his sweeps to around 24,000 feet in response Japan never really flying over 20,000 feet.

What works best so far is avoiding them, outnumbering them 10 to 1, flying low, hitting their airfields. Not always doable.

Unfortunately, I don't have a lot of fighter planes, but I plan to allocate two sentai for Lightning defense: 1 Tojo (later A6M5c) and 1 Dinah or Nick.






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< Message edited by Lowpe -- 6/20/2014 2:27:55 PM >

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RE: Java finally conquered - 6/20/2014 1:36:03 PM   
ny59giants


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Status: offline 		I'm playing with the new air data for DBB. The P-38s on sweep are good, the P-47s are just 'nasty.' You will really need to set up a layered CAP with you best fighters set about 2 or 3k above the poor fighters (bait). Hopefully, the P-38s will get the 'bounce' against the poorer fighters and then you can get a chance to kill one of them.

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Post #: 980
RE: Java finally conquered - 6/20/2014 1:43:54 PM   
Lowpe


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Status: offline 		In the new year this match up will occur. Japan will still be on the dis-advantaged side, but numbers, reliability should cause him to change tactics a little.

It should be interesting! And frustrating too!

Just so you know, I think the KAI Dinah will fail utterly against the Lightning...but on the off chance it doesn't...




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RE: Java finally conquered - 6/20/2014 1:47:11 PM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

I'm playing with the new air data for DBB. The P-38s on sweep are good, the P-47s are just 'nasty.'


Something to look forward too!

I think at this point in time, Japanese fighter pilots didn't wear too many parachutes although they were issued...

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Post #: 982
RE: Java finally conquered - 6/20/2014 2:11:16 PM   
ny59giants


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Status: offline 		How are the P-40Ks doing?? They have the best speed of the P-40 models. You will have to face the first generation of Corsairs, but since the Allies only get ONE per day, they will have limited use.

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RE: Java finally conquered - 6/20/2014 3:24:25 PM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

How are the P-40Ks doing?? They have the best speed of the P-40 models. You will have to face the first generation of Corsairs, but since the Allies only get ONE per day, they will have limited use.


There is one squadron flying escort in Burma that I have seen, another flying escort out of the Marshalls -- probably flying CAP there now too. I have downed 60 of them so far, but nothing really memorable about them sticks in my mind.

Hellcats, ugh. Only 7 more months till the P47.

It is those Lightning sweeps now that are my bane. Actually, it should be his bombers forces...they should have destroyed all the oil at Magwe, Palembang, Miri, etc, but for some reason he hasn't....

I have scenario 1 resources, oil, and fuel...overall I think there is only 34 oil damage across the empire. 260 refineries have been hit...42 heavy industry lost and 160 light industry.

So, I have nothing to complain about.

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Post #: 984
RE: Java finally conquered - 6/20/2014 3:30:06 PM   
obvert


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Status: offline 		You're digging deep with the Dinah KAI. That 37mm cannon isn't going to hit much.

The A6M5c isn't bad. Armor helps a lot in an escort or fleet defense role. As a land based interceptor though, limited. Until you get the Jack with it's insane climb rate the Tojos should be your mainstay interceptor on land.

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Post #: 985
RE: Java finally conquered - 6/20/2014 3:53:57 PM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

You're digging deep with the Dinah KAI. That 37mm cannon isn't going to hit much.



Well, it will be fun to try. Actually, I have a feeling that the big inaccurate guns, are better than most people think.

I envision four roles for the KAI Dinah, and with only 30 factories churning them out it will be take a while to test them all:

1. vs the Lightning sweep --- most likely fail
2. long range escort -- zero or oscar does it as well and cheaper
3. long range sweep...I think it will win here
4. rear area anti-bomber defense -- another win I think

Can it do better at 3 and 4 than other planes available...doubtful. But it uses an engine I have tons of, and almost every IJA squadron can upgrade to it for no PP unlike the Nicks.

Other big gun platforms I am researching or building: Peggy NF, the KAIb Nick.... I would really like to research the Ki-93 Ib too. Just having a difficult time actually doing it.

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Post #: 986
RE: Java finally conquered - 6/20/2014 4:11:11 PM   
obvert


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Status: offline 		Might want to sandbox or test a few before changing all of that research on the later models. Some good tests have been done in the past on the Tojo IIb with the 40mm cannons, and they were worse against bombers than either of the other versions with only MGs. With only one big gun and no other MG this is a no go for me. It's about 9 times less likely to hit than a 13.2mm centerline gun, and the Tojo IIc with 2 x 13.2mm on the centerline plus the other two wing mounted guns should hit about 25 times as often as this one 37mm cannon.

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Post #: 987
RE: Java finally conquered - 6/20/2014 4:30:12 PM   
Lowpe


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Status: offline 		I just can't bring myself to r&d the 93Ib, mainly because it is better to ram the bombers at the endgame with a single engine plane.

In a way I am sandboxing those big guns now with the KAI Dinah and the KAIb Nick right now. I am not expecting miracles, just better than what most people think.

Haven't changed any of my late research for anything (other than my initial moves months back): Frank and Sam lesser extent George...but I will have factories to change from A6M5c to something in a few days. Leaning to adding more Sam and the Ki 83. Sams are a wonder in Downfall.

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Post #: 988
RE: Java finally conquered - 6/20/2014 10:11:16 PM   
Lokasenna


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

I just can't bring myself to r&d the 93Ib, mainly because it is better to ram the bombers at the endgame with a single engine plane.

In a way I am sandboxing those big guns now with the KAI Dinah and the KAIb Nick right now. I am not expecting miracles, just better than what most people think.

Haven't changed any of my late research for anything (other than my initial moves months back): Frank and Sam lesser extent George...but I will have factories to change from A6M5c to something in a few days. Leaning to adding more Sam and the Ki 83. Sams are a wonder in Downfall.


I pour a celebratory drink every time one of my Sam factories repairs. Needless to say, in September 1942 I haven't poured too many drinks.

I agree, though - more Sam and more Ki-83. You may also want some Randy airframes... I think it's the -102c model, yes?

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Post #: 989
RE: Java finally conquered - 6/20/2014 11:54:38 PM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

I agree, though - more Sam and more Ki-83. You may also want some Randy airframes... I think it's the -102c model, yes?


I am torn on the Randy 102c night fighter. You can accelerate the plane but not the radar 10/45. It is the radar that makes plane killers...

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Post #: 990
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