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RE: Best Race at start? - 7/4/2014 3:19:29 PM

Spidey

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I've thought a bit about it and I'm ending up with this ranking of the races. Do note that it's assuming expensive research and a 15x15 galaxy with a pre-warp start.

1: Quameni
2: Gizureans
3: Ikkuro, Haakonish, Zenox, Ackdarians, Kiadian
4: Human, Wekkarus
5: Dhauyt, Naxxilian, Securan, Ugnari, Teekan, Boskara, Sluken
6: Ketarov
7: Mortalen
8: Shandar
9: Atuuk

Quameni and Gizureans are obvious. All that needs to be said about them has already been said in this topic.

Third tier is a fairly big group. The Ikkuro and the Haakonish both have maintenance reductions and they both start with some mean colony governors that provide quite the boost to early growth. The net effect is pretty immense. The Zenox have a maintenance reduction, technocracy for early 50% research buff, and a starting scientist, which is pretty neat and gives them a good position in the tech race. The Kiadians are about as techy, with a native 20% research bonus (+45% with demo / repub), a starting scientist, and a 5% per colony resource bonus to energy research. If they have a neighbor with a maintenance bonus then watch out galaxy. And last we have the Ackies with a solid maintenance reduction, a ship size buff, a massive build speed buff, and a 10% research bonus. What holds them back a bit is that they don't have growth bonuses and their predefined starting character is a fairly useless admiral.

Fourth tier gives us Human, with good research and espionage but held back by mediocre growth and no predefined badass character. Also fourth tier are the Wekkarus. They have good econ, a starting scientist, and a really nice racial weapon tech, but they're still likely to get out-researched by the Kiadians and Zenoz, and outgrown by the Ikkuro and Ackdarians. And so they're level with Human and behind the others.

Fifth tier is a mediocre group of races with some benefits but nothing that really makes them shine. Dhayut live and die by their racial warp drive, which is very, very good, but aside from that they've got absolutely nothing. Naxxils have arguably the best troops, solid growth, and they start with a rather strong intelligence agent, but they're also icers with no econ or research buff. Securans have amazing growth and happiness, making them early bloomers, but they don't really have lasting bonuses. Ugnari have a solid starting agent and a per colony resource bonus to high tech but also slow growth, and a pretty useless mining bonus. Sixth tier is almost too high. Teekan have tons of money but will need every penny of it to buy ships and invest in crash research. And then there's Sluken and Boskara, two solid warfare races with good growth rates. They're probably near the top of tier 5, with the Boskara well ahead of the Sluken, but at the end of the day they're still mediocre.

At tier six we've got the Ketarov. Maybe I'm being harsh on them, since they do have a really strong intelligence play, which can be used to some effect, but you don't get ahead in the tech race by stealing what other factions already have. And to make things worse, the Ketarov have fairly slow growth, a penalty to their scientist spawn chance, no econ buffs to buy crash research, and a special government that is more than a bit tricky to use constructively.

Tier seven sees the Mortalen. Top of the line troops but no tech bonus, no growth bonus, no happiness bonus, fairly slow growth, and their predefined starting character is of course a general, which isn't going to help them actually land their excellent troops on other planets.

Finally reaching the bottom, we've got the hippie lizards at tier 8 and the boneheaded teddy bears managing to score even lower. The Shandar have near-Securan happiness and much lower growth rate, making them a scaly light-version at best. The good thing is that they don't really have penalties for anything other than ocean and ice planet colonization tech, and their crap troops are only the sixth weakest in the game.

And at long last, we have the Atuuk at tier 9, a rank they deservingly capture by being a light-version of the Shandar. Why are they the worst of the worst? Because aside from good growth and happiness, they have absolutely nothing to boost them. And against them they have a -50% chance to spawn scientists, no econ bonus to pay for crash research, slower construction speed, their predefined starting leader is quite bad, and just to round things off completely, they have the second worst troops in the game.

And that's it. The definitive ranking that totally cannot be disputed by anyone who has played the game for more than a few minutes.

< Message edited by Spidey -- 7/4/2014 8:03:46 PM >

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Post #: 31

RE: Best Race at start? - 7/4/2014 5:19:03 PM

Nanaki

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That ranking is fairly good... but I would split up 3. You have an upper Tier 3 of Ikkuro, Haakonish, Ackdarian, and a lower Tier 3 of Zenox and Kiadian. Both races run into the problem in that they are tech-focused races that are simply out-done by the Quameno. Simply put, if you want tech, you go Quameno, wheras Haakonish is probably one of the best Econ/Mil races around and Ikkuro are also very well rounded.

Also, I would split up 8. Shandar are bad but nowhere near as bad as Atuuk, as the Shandar at least have volcanic habitat, a decent wonder, and +20% spaceport armor which could be really great for pirates (IF IT WORKED, WHICH IT DOES NOT, FIX PLZ). Atuuk have absolutly nothing, crap troops, construction speed penalty, native is continental, they only have the high growth rates and a happiness bonus just above that of Zenox.

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Post #: 32

RE: Best Race at start? - 7/4/2014 6:48:43 PM

Spidey

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The reason I'm not too keen to split up tier 3 is because it's really hard to weigh tech against econ / maintenance / growth.

The Ikkuro get a solid early growth rate boost from their governor, very early repair bots, great troops, a maintenance bonus, an econ bonus, cheaper colonization tech, and a construction speed boost. That's a very wide spread that adds up to a powerhouse of a faction but notice that they don't get any kind of tech bonus at all. The Gizureans, stupid bugs that they are, will likely tech faster than the Ikkuro. The Securans too, probably.

The Ackdarians get a solid maintenance bonus and a 10% research bonus as well as some construction size and speed buffs, but they don't get any growth bonus at all. Early democracy will help a bit but that cancels out the maintenance bonus. The alternative is to go crazy with the colonization, which will then give you an empire that isn't very easy to defend.

The Haakonish get a nice maintenance reduction, a bonus to spies, bigger ships, and some very lovely early growth from their starting governor, but they don't have more research speed than the Ikkuro. At best they're at a 25% bonus from repub or democracy. That's not "bad" at all, but it does mean that the three million research points needed for Gerax drives might take a little while to accumulate.

Contrast with the Zenox and the Kiadian, who are at 50% and 45% bonus to research respectively, and both always start with a scientist, which means both will break the warp barrier relatively soon. Okay, not as soon as the Quameno, but almost certainly faster than the Ackdarians and probably also faster than the Haakonish and the Ikkuro despite the growth disadvantage. They also both have the same maintenance bonus as the Ikkuro. And the Kiadians get 5% energy research bonus per colony while the Zenox have +20% happiness, meaning slightly better growth and easier taxation once you get that far.

The short version is that I just don't see a noteworthy quality gap between any of the tier 3 races. They all have some rather significant strengths and some relative weaknesses that can slow them down a bit. Or to put it differently, all five of those tier three races are closer to each other in terms of "general power" than they are to the races below them in the hierarchy.

But I do admittedly place a rather high value on research bonuses, and it's certainly possible that I'm overrating that quality. I should probably experiment a bit and see what sort of population numbers and research output I have at various intervals during the first ten years with these races. That should provide a more definitive answer as to how valuable a research bonus really is relative to the other bonuses.

Oh, and regarding tier 8, I absolutely agree that Atuuk technically deserve to drop all the way down to tier 9. It just felt so redundant to have a tier very crap and a tier very, very crap.

(in reply to Nanaki)

Post #: 33

RE: Best Race at start? - 7/4/2014 7:00:59 PM

Nanaki

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The problem I see with Kaidan and Zenox is that they are pretty much watered down Quameno. If you want a tech-focused race, why bother with them at all? On the other hand, The other Tier 3 races actually represent different and interesting playstyles.

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RE: Best Race at start? - 7/4/2014 7:20:32 PM

Spidey

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I agree that the Zenox largely play like watered down Quameno (though slightly less geeky), whereas the Kiadian are watered down Quameno with a twist. But even if they're quite similar to the Quameno, they're still pretty strong. And the question I based the rankings on was essentially "how easy is it to dominate a 15x15 sector galaxy with pre-warp start and 240k research cost, using this race?". In my experience, under those settings, it really is a fairly signigicant advantage to get into the warp age as soon as possible.

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RE: Best Race at start? - 7/4/2014 7:57:17 PM

Nanaki

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Yes, they are still pretty strong, but you have not answered my question: Why would you ever play Zenox or Kaidian over Quameno? For all their faults, Ackdarians, Ikkuro, and Haakonish actually provide something different.

When I was testing my balance mod, I noticed that Gizureans are going to be extremely difficult to balance. The issue is that, mechanically, the combination of high pop growth, immortal leader, and extremely powerful ship maintenance bonus all come together in a really nasty way. I then read over the Gizurean's dossier and I noticed that it mentions nothing about ruler immortality, infact, it specifically mentions the Gizureans having serious internal divisions. Curious.

Previously, my balance mod was just doing number tweaks, but I am considering bigger changes.

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RE: Best Race at start? - 7/4/2014 9:08:50 PM

Aeson

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quote:

Why would you ever play Zenox or Kaidian over Quameno?

Easy access to Megatron Z4s or Shadowghost ECM? Spidey scored based on ability, not on uniqueness.

Besides, just because the Quameno are better at the research game than either the Kiadians or the Zenox does not mean that the Kiadians and Zenox should lose score in comparison to all the species you can play. If we were to create a score table that rated each species in each of several categories and then rate them by the average score over all categories in the table, the Quameno scoring higher in the same categories as the Kiadians and Zenox have their high scores in does not push the average score of the Kiadian or Zenox species down. That the Quameno scored higher in those specific categories may make you more likely to play Quameno than either Zenox or Kiadian, if that's what you're looking for, but it doesn't make the Zenox and Kiadians weaker when compared against all the species in the game. Beyond that, the Kiadian special technology is entirely superior to the regular version that everyone has; the same cannot be said for the Quameno's special reactors, which will eventually fall behind the HyperFusion Reactor in every respect aside from fuel efficiency and total research investment. I can't recall at the moment which way the Zenox shields go, in the end, though as with the Quameno reactors they represent a significant improvement over the equivalent components in the early stages of the game, once you can get to them.

< Message edited by Aeson -- 7/4/2014 10:10:14 PM >

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RE: Best Race at start? - 7/4/2014 11:05:59 PM

Keston

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The "ratings" are useful and very interesting, though I'm much more interested in how they play and comparative strengths and weaknesses that create opportunities and risks than overall odds to win.

On balance - well, in many games, and history, some factions/nations may be there just to serve as color, bystanders, foils, or roadkill. Balancing efforts by tinkering with faction attributes often degrade or ruin games and tax player patience.

Balance in tournament and other competitive play is important, but I find explicit handicapping (e.g., DW victory conditions) much more acceptable for such balancing than fudging historical intentions and capabilities (whether in a universe of fact or of fiction).

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RE: Best Race at start? - 7/5/2014 1:09:50 AM

Nanaki

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You make an excellent point, but generally that is the dividing line between perfect balance and good enough balance. I think a number of tweaks could be made to improve balance without reducing the uniqueness of the various races. If anything, I feel that the uniqueness of races could be improved by such tweaks, as my primary complaint with, say, Quameno, Zenox, and Kaidian is that the latter two races really do not have enough differences to stand out compared to the former, and thus appear, rightly so, as watered down Quameno.

One of my ideas, for example, was to give Atuuk a 70% troop cost reduction. It probably will not do a whole lot to make them 'not crap', but at the very least when you acquire an Atuuk planet you no longer go 'Crap, useless Atuuk' but instead 'Cheap cannon fodder at least', basically tweaks that fit the racial description.

quote:

Easy access to Megatron Z4s or Shadowghost ECM?

Which are not particularly hard to acquire. You would be amazed at what you could accomplish with some manual intelligence work.

Also, the fuel efficiency in Quameno reactors is quite useful even in endgame, as it essentially allows your ships to travel further and fight longer without having to go home to refuel.

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RE: Best Race at start? - 7/5/2014 2:23:02 AM

Keston

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Looking at the Atuuk, they seem like rather lemming-like luddites who might have to rely on large numbers. I suppose their economic bonuses can translate into larger forces, but a focused discount for raising troops of their own species seems appropriate, and maybe less weight counting against transport capacity.

Does troop recruitment affect planetary population at all?.

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RE: Best Race at start? - 7/5/2014 2:54:36 AM

Aeson

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quote:

You would be amazed at what you could accomplish with some manual intelligence work.

No, I really wouldn't, considering that I've played with manual intelligence work more than a little. It's incredibly dependent on whether or not you get a decent intelligence agent, or have enough luck with the missions you assign to a mediocre intelligence agent to turn that agent into a good one, and the late-game techs take a long time to steal even with a decent agent. With a great agent it's not that much trouble, sure, but you don't always have a great agent.

quote:

Also, the fuel efficiency in Quameno reactors is quite useful even in endgame, as it essentially allows your ships to travel further and fight longer without having to go home to refuel.

Let's compare the NovaCore III to the HyperFusion reactor chain. The NovaCore III gives 192 output and 375 storage for 2 fuel per thousand energy and 20 space. The HyperFusion I gives 180 output and 350 storage for 2.79 fuel per thousand energy and 16 space. That's about 17% more output per size unit for about 40% more fuel consumption. The HyperFusion II gives 215 output and 440 storage for 16 space and 2.67 fuel per thousand energy, or about 40% more output per size unit for about 34% more fuel consumption. The HyperFusion III gives 260 output and 540 storage for 16 space and 2.52 fuel per thousand energy, or a little over 69% more output per size unit for 26% more fuel consumption. If you use the same armament and defenses on the design with HyperFusion reactors as you do with NovaCore IIIs, you'll end up with either a smaller design or space to put in more fuel cells. Now, maybe you won't be able to put in enough fuel cells to fully make up the difference, but it's still not going to be all that significant of a difference in operating time if you fill the space you save on reactors with fuel cells. If you switch your NovaCores over to HyperFusion reactors just by replacing the reactors rather than by matching the output (which isn't optimal, as you're wasting reactor output in doing so), you gain enough space for two fuel cells for every three reactors you switch over. The difference is there, but it's not necessarily all that big of a difference.

Moreover, this still does not affect the standing of the Zenox and Kiadians with respect to the other species in the game. Your argument is kind of like saying that if all the people on the forum took a test, and you and I scored identically except in one category, where you did better than I did, my ranking among all the forum users should be reduced because I didn't do as well as you did in that one category, regardless of how well I did compared to everyone else. The fact that you performed better than I did in no way changes how I performed in comparison to everyone else, yet if we took your argument for scoring the Zenox and Kiadians lower and applied it to this scenario, then I should receive a ranking lower than what my overall score would indicate. Unless, despite all appearances, your argument is really that Kiadians and Zenox aren't good enough to be in Spidey's third grouping rather than that they're not as good as Quameno and so less worthwhile to play?

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RE: Best Race at start? - 7/5/2014 11:12:59 AM

Nanaki

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It kind of makes me wonder if maybe research bonuses should be reduced across the board. After all, Republic/Democracy are almost always chosen by players because of their research bonus.

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RE: Best Race at start? - 7/5/2014 12:11:51 PM

DeadlyShoe

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the value of research bonuses fluctuates with game settings.

they only really get outta control with tech trading because then technology also functions as economic strength. a single tech can be worth years of empire income. of course players asploit tech trading way more than AIs do so its more beneficial for players than AI. tech trading breaks the game basically but w/e.

it's also important to note that economic-type bonuses also benefit your ability to research to a limited extent. I don't know exactly how base research value scales but i think it goes off GDP nonlinearly.

< Message edited by DeadlyShoe -- 7/5/2014 1:14:46 PM >

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RE: Best Race at start? - 7/5/2014 3:38:30 PM

Nanaki

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I think you sell espionage short. The Ketarov get a bonus to maximum intelligence agents which you CANNOT get through assimilation. In addition, Espionage can be extremely powerful, you can not only steal normal techs but you can steal racial techs, which is the only way to get them if you turned off tech trading (which I do), in addition, you can easily get ahead in techs with Ketarov by researching a single field very, very far, while using espionage to steal techs from the other fields so you do not fall behind. On top of this, you can use espionage to change governments, assassinate characters, acquire maps, destroy bases, etc. Your intelligence agents can get 'inspiring leader' trait which gives a passive exp gain to all characters at that location, which is usually your homeworld which means it will affect your leader, colonial governor (if you have one), and other intelligence agents. However, what gives espionage a bad rap is that the AI is really, really, really bad at it, its one of those functions which a human absolutly has to micromanage in order to make the best of it.

< Message edited by Nanaki -- 7/5/2014 4:51:43 PM >

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RE: Best Race at start? - 7/6/2014 3:17:39 AM

Gilmer

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I like the insects. I hated the Ketarovs.

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RE: Best Race at start? - 7/6/2014 8:09:26 AM

aaatoysandmore

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nanaki

I think you sell espionage short. The Ketarov get a bonus to maximum intelligence agents which you CANNOT get through assimilation. In addition, Espionage can be extremely powerful, you can not only steal normal techs but you can steal racial techs, which is the only way to get them if you turned off tech trading (which I do), in addition, you can easily get ahead in techs with Ketarov by researching a single field very, very far, while using espionage to steal techs from the other fields so you do not fall behind. On top of this, you can use espionage to change governments, assassinate characters, acquire maps, destroy bases, etc. Your intelligence agents can get 'inspiring leader' trait which gives a passive exp gain to all characters at that location, which is usually your homeworld which means it will affect your leader, colonial governor (if you have one), and other intelligence agents. However, what gives espionage a bad rap is that the AI is really, really, really bad at it, its one of those functions which a human absolutly has to micromanage in order to make the best of it.

I leave ON tech trading and just let the AI tech trade and I do not? I have any self control not to exploit the ai. I don't even use espionage to steal techs. The ai is already poor why exploit it?

< Message edited by aaatoysandmore -- 7/6/2014 9:12:16 AM >

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RE: Best Race at start? - 7/6/2014 10:43:53 AM

Nanaki

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I find it pretty silly that people handicap themselves just because the AI is terrible. I turn tech trading off because I dislike the concept, not because of any handicap.

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RE: Best Race at start? - 7/6/2014 11:19:26 AM

aaatoysandmore

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nanaki

I find it pretty silly that people handicap themselves just because the AI is terrible. I turn tech trading off because I dislike the concept, not because of any handicap.

Sureeee you do. It's ok we understand.

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RE: Best Race at start? - 7/6/2014 12:02:59 PM

Keston

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Technical assistance to allies and technical exchanges are realistic and appropriate, but take time to learn and make use of, the more so the bigger the gap in starting positions.

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RE: Best Race at start? - 7/6/2014 4:10:33 PM

Sindri

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What about Caleph then? (from DWE) they have tons of good captains and admirals, easy win conditions, volcanic colonization and good reproduction rate and special fighters. They are my fav civ as they are space war oriented and dominate others in mid game to late game :)

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RE: Best Race at start? - 7/6/2014 10:16:04 PM

aaatoysandmore

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Wow the research and technology advantage for the Q's is outstanding. But they do lack in destroyer building in the early game. If the pirates of another faction get to them early could spell disaster. Not much defense with frigates and escorts.

Also, income is slow in the beginning. Course high research does remedy that somewhat but once again if encoutered by pirates or other factions in the early game could spell disaster. I already have to please one pirate faction that came upon me quite early in the game and I have pirates set at distant.

I guess if you play on an easy enough start they could be pretty good. But, On a hard or extremely hard start I'm not so sure.

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RE: Best Race at start? - 7/6/2014 10:54:41 PM

janamdo

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Ok i understand for winning the game you need the best race.. it seems to me whatever race you choose the challence is how to win.
If there are weak races with no chance to win at forehand , then choose the ones who win, otherwise you will loose.l

< Message edited by janamdo -- 7/7/2014 12:00:54 AM >

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RE: Best Race at start? - 7/6/2014 10:56:43 PM

Nanaki

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Win through attrition. Pirate income is nowhere near as big as empire income, and the pirates tech advantage is not big enough to overwhelm you in combat. It also helps to have some decent firepower at home, with defense bases and such.

Also, Quameno ships are just as large as everyone elses, only Teekans actually have a penalty to ship size.

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RE: Best Race at start? - 7/7/2014 1:00:59 AM

Rhikore

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Nanaki, After slamming this post in another thread, I find it interesting that you are now working on racial balance...

"Hey Guys, Ill be working on a race mod soon, hopefully, and was wanting to address balance across governments and races.

I think the best way to do this would be to create some basically "blank" races with lets say one bonus.
Equalizing Pop Growth across all Blank races, except for the Race intended to test the efficacy of Pop Growth.

All bonuses would have to be of the same percentage or equivalent point values.

Then run tests with said races, using a special map, or editing home systems for control, providing identical environmental factors.

After a good sample size, we should be able to create a racial Bonus metric, by which we can balance the races.
This metric could also be used to balance government types.

Giving an educated guess, I would expect Monetary/Growth/Research Bonuses to generally fall into the 3 highest percentages.

In my race/government Mod, I will be attempting to balance the vanilla races, with my additions.(Governments & Races)

I kindly entreat any of you that can, to start testing."

I sincerely wish I could start working on this in depth, but Im currently involved in returning to college.
The Idea I posted is very simple really and could allow for some easy, yet definitive testing with naturally self-revealing ratios.
Furthermore I suspect that some values for certain bonuses would be so miniscule, relatively, that a necessity for a dichotomy of bonuses would arise.
Namely, Core Bonuses, (Research/Pop Growth/Economic) and Flavor Bonuses (Civilian Ship Size, Etc)

@Nanaki
With all due respect... It is not my intent to offend you or start a flame war, but you seem to come across in a rather harsh, rude and dismissive way.
Conversely, You seem to have a good amount of insight and intuition, and could be a potential boon to this community.
Take Care.

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RE: Best Race at start? - 7/7/2014 1:02:36 AM

ParagonExile

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BRB guys, I'm off to mod the Quameno and Gizureans to suck more.

Maybe I'll buff the Atuuk to be godlike as well...

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RE: Best Race at start? - 7/7/2014 2:15:56 AM

Nanaki

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rhikore
@Nanaki
With all due respect... It is not my intent to offend you or start a flame war, but you seem to come across in a rather harsh, rude and dismissive way.

You are reading my fustration in that a handful of races got nearly all of the interesting mechanics. I have not deliberately attempted to be offensive and I apologize if my words are offending to anyone.

quote:

Nanaki, After slamming this post in another thread, I find it interesting that you are now working on racial balance...

It is a sort of slow-motion work in progress. Usually when I am looking to add/remove something, I look at the lore and the victory conditions, and try to do something that would fit that race. For example, I removed the Gizuraens permanent leader as, VCs aside, the Gizureans are specifically mentioned to be a divided and tribal bunch. As a race their OPness is a three-legged stool with the permanent leader as one leg (on top of this their leader starts with 4 really good skills), high growth rates as the second leg, and the ship maintenance bonus as a third leg.

Though I still like the idea of permanent leaders so, for now, I gave it to the Zenox. Their research took a major hit when I nerfed Technocracy (they are behind Kaidians and Humans), and I really could not think of anything else to add to them without making them too similar to another race. Humans got trade/tourism bonuses to make them more well-rounded (and it fits their VCs), and Kaidian are a sort of research/military juggernaut with less raw research than Quameno but +10% military ship size and 20% war weariness reduction to make them able to fight better.

That more or less leaves the resarch-oriented races at a spot I am happy with. Quameno can still get 65% tech which is a lot but a substantial reduction from the 90% bonus it is in vanilla, and the 15% approval rating penalty means they capitalize less on that early tech lead. Kaidian can get 45%, Humans can get 40%, Zenox and Dhayut can get 35%.

Not really sure what to do with most of the insect/reptilian races though. The Gizureans were mentioned above, I added 10% research to Dhayut and 15% mining rate to Shandar but I did nothing with Boskara, Sluken, Naxxilian, or Mortalen.

quote:

I think the best way to do this would be to create some basically "blank" races with lets say one bonus.
Equalizing Pop Growth across all Blank races, except for the Race intended to test the efficacy of Pop Growth.

The problem with this is that, you also have to look into how bonuses interact with eachother. Two bonuses might have X and Y value each, but put them together and they may very well be more or less than the sum of the parts, and DW's races are incredibly complex with a huge number of different factors all interacting with eachother.

Still, I wish it were that simple!

Best we can probably hope to do is buff the weaker races some and nerf the stronger races some, probably looking at it on a case-by-case basis. It wont get perfect balance, but a reduction in strength differences between the strongest and weakest races would be enough to make me happy.

_____________________________

I ate the batter of the bulge at Hans' Haus of Luftwaffles

(in reply to Rhikore)

Post #: 56

RE: Best Race at start? - 7/7/2014 2:30:55 AM

Rhikore

Posts: 53
Joined: 6/4/2014
Status: offline

I understand that you can have compounded effects from multiple bonuses and assimilation(Everyone can Assimilate), but this approach also gives us the best raw info regarding the relative efficacy of a single bonus type.
Regarding "Blank" races, I mean ONLY having said Bonus.... no Resource Bonuses, no secondaries(The "Other Bonuses" listed at the bottom), and having the same midline Characteristics values.
Having a Non-Government(No Bonuses or Penalties) would be ideal.

Regarding Simplicity:
This is pretty straight-forward the only issue would be the time and processing power required to give an adequate sample size. My Computer is somewhat old

< Message edited by Rhikore -- 7/7/2014 3:37:00 AM >

(in reply to Nanaki)

Post #: 57

RE: Best Race at start? - 7/7/2014 2:55:34 AM

buglepong

Posts: 46
Joined: 4/12/2014
Status: offline

Losing games is super hard though, because the AI cannot effect planetary invasion.

(in reply to janamdo)

Post #: 58

RE: Best Race at start? - 7/7/2014 6:10:55 AM

aaatoysandmore

Posts: 2848
Joined: 9/11/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: buglepong

Losing games is super hard though, because the AI cannot effect planetary invasion.

Yeah, I've seen that to the point I get rid of most of my army on the ground in the early game.

Here's a question that has me scratching my head. If taxes say are 19k and my total expenditures are 19k (ship and bases and army maint) how come I am getting an income every month? I keep watching my cash on hand go up and I don't understand where the extra money is coming from. I'm already getting the private taxes.

(in reply to buglepong)

Post #: 59

RE: Best Race at start? - 7/7/2014 7:13:36 AM

Tcby

Posts: 342
Joined: 12/16/2013
From: Australia
Status: offline

Spaceports generate income. When the private sector orders ships to be built, your shipyards build them. The AI pay for this. Similarly, you get money for the trade of resources that occurs at your bases. This amount is very small to beging with though. In the top right corner of the main screen (where you see your money), this is all represented by 'Bonus Income'

(in reply to aaatoysandmore)

Post #: 60