RE: [DWU] Balance Mod v0.9 - 171 new projects (extended TechTree) [WIP]

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Distant Worlds 1 Series >> Design and Modding >> RE: [DWU] Balance Mod v0.9 - 171 new projects (extended TechTree) [WIP]

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RE: [DWU] Balance Mod v0.9 - 171 new projects (extended... - 6/27/2014 6:28:24 PM

danymatrix

Posts: 62
Joined: 6/26/2014
Status: offline

v1.9.5.5 Public Beta Update Available!

- NEW MODDING FEATURE: defined Research path. Optionally allow specifying project order for a race for each tech tree (see new entries in race files: WeaponsResearchProjectOrder, EnergyResearchProjectOrder, HighTechResearchProjectOrder)

CRASH FIXES
- added extra safeguards to help prevent crashes when using faulty themes

BUG FIXES
- now cancel intelligence missions when target colony or base conquered, destroyed, etc
- fixed bug where sometimes getting tech bonuses from disassembling ships without advanced tech
- Ion Defense and Tractor Beams no longer counted as weapons when checking civilian designs in Ship Design editor
- ensure never load pirate raider troops when loading troops onto transports (e.g. loading troops from own colony while attacking pirate base)
- ensure custom planetmaps getting loaded ('other' folder)
- ensure mouse scroll wheel retains focus when Character and Empire Policy screens are closed
- ensure colonies only appear once in Top Colonies screen, even when controlled by pirates

MODDING
- NEW MODDING FEATURE: defined Research path. Optionally allow specifying project order for a race for each tech tree (see new entries in race files: WeaponsResearchProjectOrder, EnergyResearchProjectOrder, HighTechResearchProjectOrder)
- reverted file loading for certain files to be encoding neutral, i.e. does not matter whether ANSI or UTF-8 (resources.txt, components.txt, research.txt)
- increased maximum government amount to 60 (governments.txt)
- increased maximum planetary facility amount to 100 (facilities.txt)
- increased maximum fighter amount to 50 (fighters.txt)

USER INTERFACE
- increased font sizes for main menu items when screen resolution is greater than 1920x1080
- increased font size for Galactopedia topic index
- increased font size of hover panel at bottom-middle of screen
- increased font size in Game Options screens
- slightly increased font size in main view for system names, nebula names, etc
- increased font size of tradeable items in Diplomacy trade screen
- increased font size in hover tech descriptions in Diplomacy trade screen
- increased font size in Component Guide screen (Design Detail screen and Research screen)
- ensure correct empire remains selected in Diplomacy screen when conclude trade deal

GAME BALANCE AND AI
- further improved AI ship design: no longer add too many extra reactors, nor remove too many shield components, when attempting to shrink a new design to fit within construction size limits
- increased chance of counterintelligence missions successfully intercepting enemy intelligence missions, especially for agents with high counterintelligence skill levels
- random government selection more balanced (no longer frequently choosing Military Dictatorship)
- initial home system ruins (Age of Shadows) now never contain system map bonuses
- reduced number of spaceports empire builds when has low population
- increased maximum fleet count. Now relates to overall number of ships and bases, up to maximum of 100 fleets
- AI empires now check whether colony is safe to build at prior to initiating research station construction (e.g. check for nearby pirates)

PIRATES
- ensure pirate smuggling freighters repair at pirate base when damaged
- ensure pirate smuggling freighters retrofit when necessary and able
- empire will not detect and attack pirate smugglers when they are smuggling resources for that empire
- ensure that pirate-owned colonies are included when checking for wonder completion
- pirate factions now get research bonuses from scientists at their bases
- pirate factions can now change their home base to any space port in their empire by selecting new option in right-click pop-up menu

OTHER
- ensure that new settings and savegame folder locations are properly created (My Documents\My Games\Distant Worlds Universe)

(in reply to bugbear777)

Post #: 121

RE: [DWU] Balance Mod (extended TechTree) [WIP] - 6/28/2014 1:59:03 AM

Unforeseen

Posts: 608
Joined: 3/26/2013
From: United States of Disease
Status: offline

Any chance I'll be allowed to upload this as part of my mod when you release version 1? Currently there are two versions of my mod :P, one that has this mod and one that doesn't. I can only upload the one that doesn't. I can't wait for yours and haree's updates for the patch, big updates for orange mod await them as i need to make modifications to the components.txt file. If i get permission to include your mod, i'll only to have to modify one file instead of two.

_____________________________

(in reply to AnddyiRaynor)

Post #: 122

RE: [DWU] Balance Mod (extended TechTree) [WIP] - 6/30/2014 2:22:44 PM

Locarnus

Posts: 287
Joined: 5/30/2010
From: Earth, Sol
Status: offline

I just looked at the 1.9.5.5 update.

This is my response in the update thread:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Locarnus

1. You cant force the large fonts on people who paid 100� and have low dpi monitors. Those need to be optional.

It is as if I buy a car with bright interior and during the next checkup they just paint the whole interior black without asking, because people in sunny and snowy areas complained...

Or amazon changing books on their kindles without asking.

If I want that behavior, I go to EA. From matrixgames I demand a different approach after spending that kind of money!

2. The way you implemented the specific research order is a major blow to partial mods (eg focused on research only) and a massive step towards only total conversion mods.
You kill interchangeability, now modders have to decide whether to make the most of the options (fixed research path) or stay compatible to eg a research mod. You could have asked the affected modders before. But instead you just implemented it, like with the racial research option from the last update.

The constant undiscussed/top down blows to the basis of my mod (modularity, so my research mod works with other mods, eg racial/themed ones) make partial modding impossible.

I therefore have to cancel my BalanceMod, after putting quite some effort in it, after this was marketed to be the modding friendly expansion.
Instead it feels like a paid modding beta with false advertising.

Although the mod always had problems, the last month was a great time.

After all the problems I was going to make the new version and allow resdistribution with 1.0 to be finally part of the Orange mod by Unforeseen.

But at some point I just have to accept that this kind of mod is not wanted by the devs and I dont want to end fighting windmills every week...

It would be so easy to just propose a modding idea in the modding forum and let the actual modders comment on it before it gets implemented...

I thank you all for the support, the bugreports, the suggestions and the great feedback in general.

Also after paying about 100� for this game in total I feel cheated everytime I look at those massive fonts which were forced down my throat. Despite protets 2 patches ago when it started. You might not agree, but this kind of behavior is unacceptable for me.
1. You cant sell something and then make the customer decide between ergonomics and bugfixes.
2. If you want to emulate the feeling, hit ctrl++ some times and try to surf the web, it is just annoying if someone forces that on you...

In protest I will remove even the current version of the mod if 1.9.5.5 goes live like that. After 100� and protests 2 weeks ago, I will not support a company that makes such decisions.

< Message edited by Locarnus -- 6/30/2014 3:27:14 PM >

_____________________________

(in reply to Unforeseen)

Post #: 123

RE: [DWU] Balance Mod (extended TechTree) [WIP] - 6/30/2014 2:26:13 PM

Erik Rutins

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Locarnus
But at some point I just have to accept that this kind of mod is not wanted by the devs and I dont want to end fighting windmills every week...

I can say that we absolutely do want this kind of mod and I really regret your reaction, given that several of the improvements we made modding-wise were based on your requests. You can see my response here:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=3647603

It's more clear reading your additional comments here that the font changes are your biggest concern. Hopefully as work in that area continues, you'll change your mind and be willing to return.

Regards,

- Erik

_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC

For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to Locarnus)

Post #: 124

RE: [DWU] Balance Mod (extended TechTree) [WIP] - 6/30/2014 2:34:53 PM

Locarnus

Posts: 287
Joined: 5/30/2010
From: Earth, Sol
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

quote:

ORIGINAL: Locarnus
But at some point I just have to accept that this kind of mod is not wanted by the devs and I dont want to end fighting windmills every week...

I can say that we absolutely do want this kind of mod and I really regret your reaction, given that several of the improvements we made modding-wise were based on your requests. You can see my response here:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=3647603

It's more clear reading your additional comments here that the font changes are your biggest concern. Hopefully as work in that area continues, you'll change your mind and be willing to return.

Regards,

- Erik

I thank you for addressing my concerns, I remember the reactor changes and wish you well.

But the 2 main problems remain.
1. Undiscussed implementation of modding features which are very problematic for modularity.
2. The forced font size changes.

I had an ebook removed by amazon via "update" and everytime I start the game now, eg for playtesting the mod, it reminds me that there need to be boundaries.
This behavior is just unacceptable and I will fight it where and how I can.

edit: This step was not easy and I ll certainly come back. After all I had lots of fun with DW and the great community and you devs did an amazing job. At the moment/current state those 2 issues are just too much combined.

< Message edited by Locarnus -- 6/30/2014 3:54:44 PM >

_____________________________

(in reply to Erik Rutins)

Post #: 125

RE: [DWU] Balance Mod (extended TechTree) [WIP] - 6/30/2014 3:58:59 PM

Rol1983

Posts: 2
Joined: 6/26/2014
Status: offline

Just calm down loacrnus, you are great modder, and maybe tired, i can help you update files(ext and vanilla universe) to the latest patch, if you want! Than you can care with more important things.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Rol1983 -- 6/30/2014 6:07:44 PM >

(in reply to Locarnus)

Post #: 126

RE: [DWU] Balance Mod (extended TechTree) [WIP] - 6/30/2014 5:00:07 PM

Efaferal

Posts: 45
Joined: 6/4/2014
Status: offline

@Erik and @Locarnus

The problem of modularity and extension for the modding feature can only be solved with compatibility headers.

Each file would have to be headered with tags like
< MOD_NAME = Universe; VERSION = 1.9.5.5>
OR
< MOD_NAME = Balanced; VERSION = 1.0 >

Each possible dependency would then be optionally tagged

< MOD_COMPATIBILITY = Universe; VERSION = 1.9.5.4; BACKWARD = TRUE >
Would indicate the following line is compatible with the current mod and the Universe Theme Version 1.9.5.4 or earlier. Any other combination would throw an alert window and let the player decide if they want to roll the dice.

Of course this can use some refinement in order to reduce the extra tagging. And Erik needs to be up to the task to adding compatibility test module.

-R

(in reply to Rol1983)

Post #: 127

RE: [DWU] Balance Mod (extended TechTree) [WIP] - 6/30/2014 8:30:38 PM

PsyKoSnake

Posts: 111
Joined: 1/25/2012
Status: offline

Something I dont understand:

Why are you upset by this change?
NEW MODDING FEATURE: defined Research path. Optionally allow specifying project order for a race for each tech tree (see new entries in race files: WeaponsResearchProjectOrder, EnergyResearchProjectOrder, HighTechResearchProjectOrder)

You only need to use the default files, and your mod will work.

Somone will then use your mod and play with those file to improve the AI with your mod active.
If someone want to integrate your work, he will need to ajust his mod to be compatible with yours.

Modding in Skyrim work like that. If someone want to use all the mod, he have 2 choices: make compatibility patch, or dont use non-essential mod incompatible with others.

Anyway I think u have done a mod that was shaping up nicely. I hope you will eventualy want to finish it.

Sorry for my english, would be easier to write in french. And in any case I dont want to insult you. If something does, I will change the sentence :P or write it in french.

< Message edited by PsyKoSnake -- 6/30/2014 9:40:34 PM >

(in reply to Efaferal)

Post #: 128

RE: [DWU] Balance Mod (extended TechTree) [WIP] - 6/30/2014 9:02:24 PM

Efaferal

Posts: 45
Joined: 6/4/2014
Status: offline

@PsyKoSnake

The problem occurs when you add the research path to a Race definition. There is no way to guarantee the Research file will have the research items referred to by the research path. Thus a Race file created that works with Extended will crash a Vanilla Research install and vice versa. Therefor a Race mode will be specific to the accompanying research tree.

Secondary possible solution the data loading module try's the race load against the research tree and a throw results in the loader rejecting the research path and continuing on.

-E

(in reply to PsyKoSnake)

Post #: 129

RE: [DWU] Balance Mod (extended TechTree) [WIP] - 6/30/2014 9:41:44 PM

PsyKoSnake

Posts: 111
Joined: 1/25/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Efaferal

@PsyKoSnake

The problem occurs when you add the research path to a Race definition. There is no way to guarantee the Research file will have the research items referred to by the research path. Thus a Race file created that works with Extended will crash a Vanilla Research install and vice versa. Therefor a Race mode will be specific to the accompanying research tree.

Secondary possible solution the data loading module try's the race load against the research tree and a throw results in the loader rejecting the research path and continuing on.

-E

For exemple: If he want to make it for The extended mod. he would need to ajust each race file and each researh file?
Then it would not be compatible with the vanilla installation?

If that is the case, he only need to choose if he want to make the mod for extended or vanila or any other mod.
If The mod Autor for extended want to make it compatible with the balance mod, why would Locarnus create an other version? (He can if he want but that would be some work

(in reply to Efaferal)

Post #: 130

RE: [DWU] Balance Mod (extended TechTree) [WIP] - 6/30/2014 10:49:26 PM

Shogouki

Posts: 177
Joined: 8/11/2013
Status: offline

I hope you don't cancel your mod, this is the mod I want most! Is there anyway we can make the font size selectable instead of just one or the other? Sorry if this has been answered before.

(in reply to PsyKoSnake)

Post #: 131

RE: [DWU] Balance Mod (extended TechTree) [WIP] - 6/30/2014 11:11:55 PM

Icemania

Posts: 1847
Joined: 6/5/2013
From: Australia
Status: offline

Please continue Locarnus this mod was top of the list to play.

Maybe leave race specific research build orders to a future release and just use what already existed e.g. ResearchTechFocus?

(in reply to Shogouki)

Post #: 132

RE: [DWU] Balance Mod (extended TechTree) [WIP] - 6/30/2014 11:42:27 PM

Unforeseen

Posts: 608
Joined: 3/26/2013
From: United States of Disease
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Locarnus

After all the problems I was going to make the new version and allow resdistribution with 1.0 to be finally part of the Orange mod by Unforeseen.

I appreciate that, I'm disappointed to see your seriously considering canceling. This is an extremely needed mod. Easily a must have. It is "quite" frustrating that somewhat major features to research were added without any kind of discussion or input from the community[that i have noticed]in the middle of the development of such a key mod.

As useful as those features may be, I and i think much of the community at this point would probably rather have this mod than those features.

_____________________________

(in reply to Locarnus)

Post #: 133

RE: [DWU] Balance Mod (extended TechTree) [WIP] - 7/1/2014 12:36:28 AM

PsyKoSnake

Posts: 111
Joined: 1/25/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Unforeseen

As useful as those features may be, I and i think much of the community at this point would probably rather have this mod than those features.

Not Really, The ai will be better because of Icemania mod, using these feature.

I dont say this mod is not needed:P But the best would be to have both.

Anyway only time will tell if he come back or not.

< Message edited by PsyKoSnake -- 7/1/2014 1:42:16 AM >

(in reply to Unforeseen)

Post #: 134

RE: [DWU] Balance Mod (extended TechTree) [WIP] - 7/1/2014 1:52:31 AM

Unforeseen

Posts: 608
Joined: 3/26/2013
From: United States of Disease
Status: offline

Perhaps idk, i kinda prefer not to use it. It might make the AI better true, but I don't like the idea of a static AI behavior. Will have to wait and see what happens with it.

I suppose an ideal scenario here would be for Haree and Locarnus and Icemania to all cooperate and combine mods. Naturally i would incorporate their combined mod into my mod. As mine only requires a small number of component.txt changes for the weapon images.

< Message edited by Unforeseen -- 7/1/2014 3:28:39 AM >

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(in reply to PsyKoSnake)

Post #: 135

RE: [DWU] Balance Mod (extended TechTree) [WIP] - 7/1/2014 8:45:05 AM

Icemania

Posts: 1847
Joined: 6/5/2013
From: Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Unforeseen

Perhaps idk, i kinda prefer not to use it. It might make the AI better true, but I don't like the idea of a static AI behavior. Will have to wait and see what happens with it.

I suppose an ideal scenario here would be for Haree and Locarnus and Icemania to all cooperate and combine mods. Naturally i would incorporate their combined mod into my mod. As mine only requires a small number of component.txt changes for the weapon images.

I agree the AI research order at the moment is not static. It's not static because it has a somewhat random component. This isn't much of a loss as it adds nothing strategically.

If the Distant Worlds AI was an Adaptive AI (that responded to other empires and circumstances with Strategic changes) I would fully agree with you. Of course that will have to wait for Distant Worlds 2.

Very happy work to together with Locarnus and Haree78 at their discretion. My initial focus is Vanilla and I'm very happy to share the files as they develop.

(in reply to Unforeseen)

Post #: 136

RE: [DWU] Balance Mod (extended TechTree) [WIP] - 7/1/2014 1:07:12 PM

Efaferal

Posts: 45
Joined: 6/4/2014
Status: offline

I am all for the research paths improvement. Right now the 'dynamic' ( random ) AI research ends up researching non essentials and doesn't coordinate well with the ship design templates.
I think the research paths should be a separate file so partial mods will continue to work.

(in reply to Icemania)

Post #: 137

RE: [DWU] Balance Mod (extended TechTree) [WIP] - 7/3/2014 4:33:49 AM

Unforeseen

Posts: 608
Joined: 3/26/2013
From: United States of Disease
Status: offline

I won't let this thread fall to page 2 xD XD XP

_____________________________

(in reply to Efaferal)

Post #: 138

RE: [DWU] Balance Mod (extended TechTree) [WIP] - 7/9/2014 4:53:05 AM

danymatrix

Posts: 62
Joined: 6/26/2014
Status: offline

Locarnus, please continue with the great work that you were doing in this great mod !

(in reply to Unforeseen)

Post #: 139

RE: [DWU] Balance Mod (extended TechTree) [WIP] - 7/10/2014 2:58:26 PM

spinkick

Posts: 14
Joined: 7/3/2014
Status: offline

This mod sounds amazing, please continue

(in reply to danymatrix)

Post #: 140

RE: [DWU] Balance Mod (extended TechTree) [WIP] - 7/10/2014 6:19:42 PM

Darknote

Posts: 11
Joined: 6/5/2014
Status: offline

Yes please do! It is too beautiful in its goal to be cancelled due to protest of fonts/etc.

(in reply to spinkick)

Post #: 141

RE: [DWU] Balance Mod (extended TechTree) [WIP] - 7/10/2014 7:15:43 PM

Unforeseen

Posts: 608
Joined: 3/26/2013
From: United States of Disease
Status: offline

So frustrating...

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(in reply to Darknote)

Post #: 142

RE: [DWU] Balance Mod (extended TechTree) [WIP] - 7/11/2014 1:09:06 PM

Kizucha

Posts: 107
Joined: 6/3/2013
Status: offline

cry face is crying.

(in reply to Unforeseen)

Post #: 143

RE: [DWU] Balance Mod (extended TechTree) [WIP] - 7/11/2014 3:26:02 PM

danymatrix

Posts: 62
Joined: 6/26/2014
Status: offline

please, come on lukarnu , you've made one of the best mods of the story ... you can not give up now ...

(in reply to Kizucha)

Post #: 144

RE: [DWU] Balance Mod (extended TechTree) [WIP] - 7/12/2014 4:11:08 PM

Simulation01

Posts: 540
Joined: 5/12/2010
Status: offline

The trouble with updates....

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"Tho' much is taken, much abides; and though we are not now that strength which in old days moved Earth and Heaven; that which we are, we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts, made weak by time and fate, but strong in will." -Tennyson

(in reply to danymatrix)

Post #: 145

RE: [DWU] Balance Mod (extended TechTree) [WIP] - 7/12/2014 8:47:22 PM

Chestburster

Posts: 8
Joined: 6/30/2014
Status: offline

It's sad that you stopped working on this mod. Any chance of removing your no republication restriction so others can continue and extend/include it?

< Message edited by Chestburster -- 7/12/2014 9:47:06 PM >

(in reply to AnddyiRaynor)

Post #: 146

RE: [DWU] Balance Mod v0.9 - 171 new projects (extended... - 7/13/2014 4:03:16 PM

Unforeseen

Posts: 608
Joined: 3/26/2013
From: United States of Disease
Status: offline

Well technically anyone who still has a copy of the mod can "redo" the changes he made and credit him for the original idea and effort. It wouldn't be a redistribution. They aren't changes that only he can specifically do, anyone could have gone in there and messed with the txts to get the same result. I personally downloaded a copy of .87 as soon as I found out he was going to take it down.

I do think this whole font war thing is a bit stupid to be honest. It isn't your game, it's the devs game. If they want the font to be a particular size than it they have every right to do that. They aren't "punishing" anyone, because you can STILL READ IT and that is all that should matter.

_____________________________

(in reply to danymatrix)

Post #: 147

RE: [DWU] Balance Mod v0.9 - 171 new projects (extended... - 7/13/2014 4:35:36 PM

spinkick

Posts: 14
Joined: 7/3/2014
Status: offline

Honestly, whatever. Seems like a tantrum at this point.

(in reply to Unforeseen)

Post #: 148

RE: [DWU] Balance Mod v0.9 - 171 new projects (extended... - 7/13/2014 4:42:08 PM

Locarnus

Posts: 287
Joined: 5/30/2010
From: Earth, Sol
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Unforeseen
Well technically anyone who still has a copy of the mod can "redo" the changes he made and credit him for the original idea and effort. It wouldn't be a redistribution. They aren't changes that only he can specifically do, anyone could have gone in there and messed with the txts to get the same result. I personally downloaded a copy of .87 as soon as I found out he was going to take it down.

Nope, that would be a redistribution.
As I cant just copy paste the contents of the Distant Worlds files and distribute them.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Unforeseen
I do think this whole font war thing is a bit stupid to be honest. It isn't your game, it's the devs game.

It is my game, as I paid for it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Unforeseen
If they want the font to be a particular size than it they have every right to do that. They aren't "punishing" anyone, because you can STILL READ IT and that is all that should matter.

If I rent an appartement, the landlord cant just come in and paint the walls black while doing maintenence on other areas. It is illegal.
And I didnt rent it, I bought the game.

And the argument "You can still read it" is frankly an insult. If you press ctrl++ in your browser for a few times, you can still read, but forcing that on you after you paid for the product is outrageous.

I did put quite some effort in it and I will finish the project, when Elliot and Erik get their priorities straight and revert their step from the recent EA like approach.

As with the StarTrek mod, redistribution/reverse engineering is not ok, this project is not even abandoned and I take that seriously!
If you want the mod to continue, tell Erik and Elliot that an EA business style with regards to customers is acceptable and certainly not compatible with a community that cares and mods as before...

_____________________________

(in reply to Unforeseen)

Post #: 149

RE: [DWU] Balance Mod v0.9 - 171 new projects (extended... - 7/13/2014 5:14:33 PM

Unforeseen

Posts: 608
Joined: 3/26/2013
From: United States of Disease
Status: offline

Hmm I don't agree about the redistribution. I didn't suggest "copying" your work from the file. I suggested using it as a guideline to write up a new one. "redo" But I may not have worded it well enough.

You do NOT own the rights to the game friend. I'm not trying to get into this with you but the company here owns the right to modify the game however they want whether you payed for it or not. You merely have the right to choose not to accept those updates by not downloading them.

In other words, they are not "forcing" you to do anything. You are voluntarily downloading the update that changes the font.

< Message edited by Unforeseen -- 7/13/2014 6:15:07 PM >

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(in reply to Locarnus)

Post #: 150

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