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RE: Advanced questions and answers - 5/26/2014 5:20:15 PM

FingNewGuy

Posts: 183
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From: Boulder, CO
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Osito

Prepare to lose those outrageous tax rates :-)

(in reply to Osito)

Post #: 31

RE: Advanced questions and answers - 5/26/2014 5:21:08 PM

Spacecadet

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quote:

ORIGINAL: OzoneGrif

Spacecadet... I remembered why Happiness helps the growth. It's not a direct calculation, but your colony does indeed grow bigger because of immigration.

If you are very happy, people want to migrate, thus helping the growth rate indirectly.

While that's true, I also had the impression (just my thoughts) that Tax rate affected it too.

Let me expand on this.

If my Tax rate is such that the Population feedback on Taxes is Green (0 or better), then there will be better growth (obviously), but also possible immigration to the Colony.

If my Tax rate feedback is Red (less than 0), then too me it appeared that my Population was migrating off of this Planet - possibly by the percentage either non-compliant or the value of the not happy.

Looking at the bigger picture, you have happiness and natural growth rate, then minus unhappy from Taxes (migration), and you end up with the Net growth rate.

I have seen my Colony population shrink in other versions of DW, that's why I think something along these lines could be happening.

It's all very complex and inter-related - one of the reasons the game's so deep.

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(in reply to OzoneGrif_slith)

Post #: 32

RE: Advanced questions and answers - 5/26/2014 5:24:23 PM

Spacecadet

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Wow!

-63 due to Taxation.

Good thing you have all the + modifiers

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(in reply to FingNewGuy)

Post #: 33

RE: Advanced questions and answers - 5/26/2014 5:27:02 PM

FingNewGuy

Posts: 183
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From: Boulder, CO
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quote:

If my Tax rate feedback is Red (less than 0), then too me it appeared that my Population was migrating off of this Planet - possibly by the percentage either non-compliant or the value of the not happy.

Hi Spacecadet-

I am not sure this is happening... look at Post#30, and see that the 'Current Tax Rate is Too High' is in the red (-63) but that the population on the colony is still Max.

(in reply to Spacecadet)

Post #: 34

RE: Advanced questions and answers - 5/26/2014 5:28:52 PM

FingNewGuy

Posts: 183
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From: Boulder, CO
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Spacecadet

Wow!

-63 due to Taxation.

Good thing you have all the + modifiers

Yep!

(in reply to Spacecadet)

Post #: 35

RE: Advanced questions and answers - 5/26/2014 5:33:58 PM

Bingeling

Posts: 5186
Joined: 8/12/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FingNewGuy

quote:

If my Tax rate feedback is Red (less than 0), then too me it appeared that my Population was migrating off of this Planet - possibly by the percentage either non-compliant or the value of the not happy.

Hi Spacecadet-

I am not sure this is happening... look at Post#30, and see that the 'Current Tax Rate is Too High' is in the red (-63) but that the population on the colony is still Max.

A max pop generate quite a chunk of new pop each year, and person transports only carry that many. This could explain it.

Migration is very visible when big colonies are taxed hard in early game, and there are many small colonies with good development and smaller tax.

If you scroll through the colony shots of this page, you can see that Kuristar 1 population (The second one) drops before the last shot. And no disaster or military action to explain the drop.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3327097&mpage=2

(in reply to FingNewGuy)

Post #: 36

RE: Advanced questions and answers - 5/26/2014 5:39:16 PM

FingNewGuy

Posts: 183
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bingeling

quote:

ORIGINAL: FingNewGuy

quote:

If my Tax rate feedback is Red (less than 0), then too me it appeared that my Population was migrating off of this Planet - possibly by the percentage either non-compliant or the value of the not happy.

Hi Spacecadet-

I am not sure this is happening... look at Post#30, and see that the 'Current Tax Rate is Too High' is in the red (-63) but that the population on the colony is still Max.

A max pop generate quite a chunk of new pop each year, and person transports only carry that many. This could explain it.

Migration is very visible when big colonies are taxed hard in early game, and there are many small colonies with good development and smaller tax.

If you scroll through the colony shots of this page, you can see that Kuristar 1 population (The second one) drops before the last shot. And no disaster or military action to explain the drop.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3327097&mpage=2

Ah yes, understood now. I saw what you meant about Kuristar 1.

(in reply to Bingeling)

Post #: 37

RE: Advanced questions and answers - 5/26/2014 5:43:07 PM

Spacecadet

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FingNewGuy

quote:

If my Tax rate feedback is Red (less than 0), then too me it appeared that my Population was migrating off of this Planet - possibly by the percentage either non-compliant or the value of the not happy.

Hi Spacecadet-

I am not sure this is happening... look at Post#30, and see that the 'Current Tax Rate is Too High' is in the red (-63) but that the population on the colony is still Max.

Yes, I saw this, so this leads me to believe it's the compliance (2% non-compliant in your pic), or possibly some other unseen value.

Example :

As long as your non-compliance rate is greater than your net/natural growth rate you're going to be at MAX population for the planet.

In this case, I'm sure your growth rate is > 2% (I think normal growth is 4% - 6% for most races).

If you do some experiments and get your non-compliance to maybe 8% - 10%, you might actually see the population on this planet to start decreasing - it'd take a while though.

< Message edited by Spacecadet -- 5/26/2014 6:47:44 PM >

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Post #: 38

RE: Advanced questions and answers - 5/26/2014 6:05:34 PM

FingNewGuy

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Yeah, I see now. But having had this convo, I really hope Eliot will come down definitively with whether the Colony Screen tax adjustment over 50% is a bug or not.

(in reply to Spacecadet)

Post #: 39

RE: Advanced questions and answers - 5/26/2014 6:16:38 PM

Spacecadet

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FingNewGuy

Yeah, I see now. But having had this convo, I really hope Eliot will come down definitively with whether the Colony Screen tax adjustment over 50% is a bug or not.

Pretty sure it's a bug.

If you leave Tax automated it will never go over 50%, plus the Galactopedia defines the rate range (first page of this thread).

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Post #: 40

RE: Advanced questions and answers - 5/26/2014 6:20:29 PM

OzoneGrif_slith

Posts: 378
Joined: 12/2/2010
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quote:

plus the Galactopedia defines the rate range

Galactopedia is often wrong, though. Not updated correctly or just with the wrong data.
I wouldn't trust it too much :)

(in reply to Spacecadet)

Post #: 41

RE: Advanced questions and answers - 5/27/2014 12:56:21 AM

necaradan666

Posts: 256
Joined: 5/28/2012
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I've always been able to put tax above 50% on the colony screen. The right click menu can't raise taxes above 50% and if it's higher resets it to 50% any time you use it, I thought this was the bug.

I see having a happy populace with 100% tax rate on some planets as a Star Trek style utopian society where people still work as starship engineers without pay for self-betterment because all their needs for a happy life are met by having access to the best facilities like holodecks and food replicators.

< Message edited by necaradan666 -- 5/27/2014 2:11:13 AM >

(in reply to OzoneGrif_slith)

Post #: 42

RE: Advanced questions and answers - 5/28/2014 2:19:05 AM

FingNewGuy

Posts: 183
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From: Boulder, CO
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Erik! Help us out here with the Colony Screen Tax Adjustment slider: > 50% a bug or not?

(in reply to necaradan666)

Post #: 43

RE: Advanced questions and answers - 5/29/2014 4:27:49 PM

FingNewGuy

Posts: 183
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From: Boulder, CO
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I have decided that, after repeated requests for clarification (with none forthcoming), that the Colony Screen tax adjustment slider giving the ability to tax beyond 50% IS NOT a bug and that the Galactopedia stating that there is a 50% taxation cap is simply wrong.

Resorting to Occam's Razor yields the conclusion that it (taxing above 50%) CAN be done, so it is intentional.

Under the K.I.S.S. principle, there is no reason to think that the ability to do a thing presupposes a lack of intent to allow the ability.)I.E in the ability to tax above 50% at the Colony Screen; the consequences of which are understood and planned for.

Finally, running a humongous empire allows for economy-of-scale effects to be determined. Under such circumstances, should multiple positive modifiers allow for off-the-scale happiness to permit ~100% taxation on specific colonies- I am completely good with that and can easily rationalize it in any role-playing sense.

(in reply to FingNewGuy)

Post #: 44

RE: Advanced questions and answers - 7/18/2014 12:24:19 PM

szabferi

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Joined: 8/26/2012
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Yesterday I accidentally noticed the possibilty to set the Tax rate to 100%... several of planet had +60ish happiness at 40% tax with MAX pop, so I gradually increased the tax.

BUT
While it is possible to increase the tax to 100% and it has a gradually increasing effect on moral (happiness went down), the actual TAX income didn't increase for me. The max tax I could torture from the planet was between 40-50%, further increase in the percentage didn't mean more money, only reduced happiness.

So, I tend to believe the possibility to increase the tax above 50% is a user interface bug only, but in income calculations the max is 50%.

< Message edited by szabferi -- 7/18/2014 1:31:50 PM >

(in reply to FingNewGuy)

Post #: 45

RE: Advanced questions and answers - 7/18/2014 1:06:29 PM

ParagonExile

Posts: 210
Joined: 6/9/2014
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quote:

ORIGINAL: szabferi

Yesterday I accidentally noticed the possibilty to set the Tax rate to 100%... several of planet had +60ish happiness at 40% tax with MAX pop, so I gradually increased the tax.

BUT
While it is possible to increase the tax to 100% and it has a gradually increasing effect on moral (happiness went down), the actual TAX income didn't increase for me. The max tax I could torture from the planet was between 40-50%, further increase in the percentage didn't mean more money, only reduced happiness.

So, I tend to believe the possibility to increase the tax above 50% is a user interface bug only, but in income calculations the max is 50%.

Nope :3

I increase my taxes to 100% in every single game I play, usually jumping from 50%. The planet this happens on is my ridiculously powerful homeworld that earns around 1 million per tick, and setting it to 100% grants me an addition million in cashflow.

Glorious futuristic socialism!

(in reply to szabferi)

Post #: 46