RE: NFC East Showdown: Cribtop (J) vs nygiants59 (A)

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RE: NFC East Showdown: Cribtop (J) vs nygiants59 (A) -... - 7/18/2014 7:38:04 PM

Cribtop

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Good point, but I've never gotten into the late game and have some clever plans for an Imperial defense I've thus never gotten to try. I'd say I would fight until the end became obvious to all and the IJN and Imperial air forces were ruined. In this mod, if that happens before mid to late '44 I'm a goofus (which is of course, entirely possible).

I am not averse to trying for auto victory early, but I doubt Michael will play poorly enough to let me grab India or enough of Oz. The option of a Mr. Kane like try for parts of Oz and heavy VP multiplier sites in SOPAC is intriguing and may be quite possible with the enhanced SNLF brigades in this mod. I wonder whether grabbing down to Pago Pago along with NW, SW and NE Oz is enough for auto vic, however.

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Post #: 31

RE: NFC East Showdown: Cribtop (J) vs nygiants59 (A) -... - 7/18/2014 7:41:44 PM

Cribtop

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PS - One element I'm toying with is a smash and grab feint in NOPAC, which I think could easily be accomplished early with minimal assets and might throw Michael off as to my intentions. For example, we could start at Kodiak Island and backfill to the Kuriles in a lightning campaign that leaves the Empire with the usual buffer in the Aleutians while giving the appearance of a major attack up here. This isn't a grand strategy of course, more of an element of a plan to create a plausible and unsettling feint in the early going.

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Post #: 32

RE: NFC East Showdown: Cribtop (J) vs nygiants59 (A) -... - 7/18/2014 11:44:16 PM

mind_messing

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cribtop

PS - One element I'm toying with is a smash and grab feint in NOPAC, which I think could easily be accomplished early with minimal assets and might throw Michael off as to my intentions. For example, we could start at Kodiak Island and backfill to the Kuriles in a lightning campaign that leaves the Empire with the usual buffer in the Aleutians while giving the appearance of a major attack up here. This isn't a grand strategy of course, more of an element of a plan to create a plausible and unsettling feint in the early going.

A smash and grab is good - provided it's just a smash and grab.

I made the mistake of commiting to the Aleutians as Japan, and it was a mistake. Thankfully I wasn't punished for it too harshly (lost 1 BB and some smaller warships), but it could have been much worse.

NORPAC is a theater stacked against Japan. Geography and logisitics work in favour of the Allies. There's plenty of bases the Allied teraforming machine can turn into massive airbases that you can't avoid.

My suggestion would be smash and grab, but commit nothing in the long term bar a Naval Guard unit to garrison Adak and a avaition company. Anything else is a waste and is much better spent in developing the Kuriles in the long run. Adak is the only real-estate worth having, and if you can keep the Allied engineers off it for six months, it's six months they don't have to turn it into a formidable base threatening your northern flank.

As an Allied player, the only thing that would convince me of a serious Japanese push in the Aleutians would be any operations eastwards of Dutch Harbour. IOW, Kodiak and Anchorage. Considering the Allied deployments on Dec 7th, that's hard to do without the carriers (MKB, the KB would be wasted). At that point, it's no longer "looking" like a major commitment. It is a major commitment.

(in reply to Cribtop)

Post #: 33

RE: NFC East Showdown: Cribtop (J) vs nygiants59 (A) -... - 7/19/2014 1:00:30 AM

Lowpe

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Well, what kind of game are you looking to try?

Minimal house rule makes me think the game will be wide open, with a big push on China early with perhaps a lot of the Chinese fleeing into India making Burma/India one huge scrum.

Scratch that-- I see you will pay PP for crossing borders.

< Message edited by Lowpe -- 7/20/2014 2:39:51 AM >

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Post #: 34

RE: NFC East Showdown: Cribtop (J) vs nygiants59 (A) -... - 7/19/2014 1:12:03 AM

Mike McCreery

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I am jealous that your AAR exceeds 500 hits before a single AAR... ;]

+1 :]

I love minimal house rules. In a game with opponents that respect each other it seems to be the way to go!

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Post #: 35

RE: NFC East Showdown: Cribtop (J) vs nygiants59 (A) -... - 7/19/2014 5:59:35 AM

SierraJuliet

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I'm inclined to the long game. Smash and grab for the VPs is one thing but taking the Allied player all the way is the true challenge.

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Post #: 36

RE: NFC East Showdown: Cribtop (J) vs nygiants59 (A) -... - 7/19/2014 6:25:56 AM

Crackaces

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cribtop

PS - One element I'm toying with is a smash and grab feint in NOPAC, which I think could easily be accomplished early with minimal assets and might throw Michael off as to my intentions. For example, we could start at Kodiak Island and backfill to the Kuriles in a lightning campaign that leaves the Empire with the usual buffer in the Aleutians while giving the appearance of a major attack up here. This isn't a grand strategy of course, more of an element of a plan to create a plausible and unsettling feint in the early going.

A smash and grab is good - provided it's just a smash and grab.

I made the mistake of commiting to the Aleutians as Japan, and it was a mistake. Thankfully I wasn't punished for it too harshly (lost 1 BB and some smaller warships), but it could have been much worse.

NORPAC is a theater stacked against Japan. Geography and logisitics work in favour of the Allies. There's plenty of bases the Allied teraforming machine can turn into massive airbases that you can't avoid.

My suggestion would be smash and grab, but commit nothing in the long term bar a Naval Guard unit to garrison Adak and a avaition company. Anything else is a waste and is much better spent in developing the Kuriles in the long run. Adak is the only real-estate worth having, and if you can keep the Allied engineers off it for six months, it's six months they don't have to turn it into a formidable base threatening your northern flank.

As an Allied player, the only thing that would convince me of a serious Japanese push in the Aleutians would be any operations eastwards of Dutch Harbour. IOW, Kodiak and Anchorage. Considering the Allied deployments on Dec 7th, that's hard to do without the carriers (MKB, the KB would be wasted). At that point, it's no longer "looking" like a major commitment. It is a major commitment.

A game between CanoeRebel vs. PJH . PJH struck very hard at Alaska and almost achieved an AV if it not for a huge mistake that Cribtop recognized about strategic bombing and a side effort of PJH that threw everything in the toilet ..
An Alaska offense with the right LOC can be a major threat if the players are playing for AV ...

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Post #: 37

RE: NFC East Showdown: Cribtop (J) vs nygiants59 (A) -... - 7/19/2014 3:46:28 PM

mind_messing

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cribtop

PS - One element I'm toying with is a smash and grab feint in NOPAC, which I think could easily be accomplished early with minimal assets and might throw Michael off as to my intentions. For example, we could start at Kodiak Island and backfill to the Kuriles in a lightning campaign that leaves the Empire with the usual buffer in the Aleutians while giving the appearance of a major attack up here. This isn't a grand strategy of course, more of an element of a plan to create a plausible and unsettling feint in the early going.

A smash and grab is good - provided it's just a smash and grab.

I made the mistake of commiting to the Aleutians as Japan, and it was a mistake. Thankfully I wasn't punished for it too harshly (lost 1 BB and some smaller warships), but it could have been much worse.

NORPAC is a theater stacked against Japan. Geography and logisitics work in favour of the Allies. There's plenty of bases the Allied teraforming machine can turn into massive airbases that you can't avoid.

My suggestion would be smash and grab, but commit nothing in the long term bar a Naval Guard unit to garrison Adak and a avaition company. Anything else is a waste and is much better spent in developing the Kuriles in the long run. Adak is the only real-estate worth having, and if you can keep the Allied engineers off it for six months, it's six months they don't have to turn it into a formidable base threatening your northern flank.

As an Allied player, the only thing that would convince me of a serious Japanese push in the Aleutians would be any operations eastwards of Dutch Harbour. IOW, Kodiak and Anchorage. Considering the Allied deployments on Dec 7th, that's hard to do without the carriers (MKB, the KB would be wasted). At that point, it's no longer "looking" like a major commitment. It is a major commitment.

A game between CanoeRebel vs. PJH . PJH struck very hard at Alaska and almost achieved an AV if it not for a huge mistake that Cribtop recognized about strategic bombing and a side effort of PJH that threw everything in the toilet ..
An Alaska offense with the right LOC can be a major threat if the players are playing for AV ...

Alaska is the second worst candidate for a major Japanese offensive, just behind attacking the Soviet Union.

There really is nothing good to be said in favour of taking Alaska.

- There's nothing really worth taking in terms of resources. The VP's for the bases and the troops are the only things of value, and there's far better targets that up in Alaksa...
- Japan needs to commit scarce engineering assets to build up bases.
- Japan has to go all the way back to the Home Islands for large ports or shipyards. The Allies have the Canadian ports as well as Seattle.
- It's about as far away from the fuel of the DEI as you can get and requires probably the longest possible logisitcs train in the game to support.
- It's very exposed to a counter-attack. The Allies can base-hop up the coast, backed up by LBA and isolate any Japanese defences.

If you're trying for AV, there's far more profitable places, that you can take with far more ease than Alaska.

(in reply to Crackaces)

Post #: 38

RE: NFC East Showdown: Cribtop (J) vs nygiants59 (A) -... - 7/19/2014 4:29:10 PM

Cribtop

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Yeah, the Alaska move would strictly be a feint in this game if I try it.

I am inclined to play the long game but I will study the possibility of a SOPAC plus the easily taken portions of OZ as an auto vic strategy.

Hardest thing for Japan is that when you really think about it the best strategy is not to attack at all.

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RE: NFC East Showdown: Cribtop (J) vs nygiants59 (A) -... - 7/19/2014 10:41:59 PM

pontiouspilot

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I will follow both sides with great interest!

It strikes me that the extra assets might lend itself to some very aggressive convoy interdiction through '42. Face it, this game is all about logistics. This may need 1 or 2 deep south bases for refueling if nothing else.

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Post #: 40

RE: NFC East Showdown: Cribtop (J) vs nygiants59 (A) -... - 7/19/2014 10:50:44 PM

SierraJuliet

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Isn't that why we take on the side flying the rising sun. Don't think... just ATTACK!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cribtop

Yeah, the Alaska move would strictly be a feint in this game if I try it.

I am inclined to play the long game but I will study the possibility of a SOPAC plus the easily taken portions of OZ as an auto vic strategy.

Hardest thing for Japan is that when you really think about it the best strategy is not to attack at all.

(in reply to Cribtop)

Post #: 41

RE: NFC East Showdown: Cribtop (J) vs nygiants59 (A) -... - 7/20/2014 12:37:24 AM

John 3rd

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Been watching and reading the Posts.

The better question to ask Cribtop is what do you KNOW of your opponent? How will he react to the Opening of the war? Will he seek combat or Sir Robin? Will he wait, watch, and THEN strike?

I know these answers since Michael and I are close but I wanted to see if you had thought about this?

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Post #: 42

RE: NFC East Showdown: Cribtop (J) vs nygiants59 (A) -... - 7/20/2014 12:49:46 AM

SierraJuliet

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Excellent question John.

Not that I've got a lot of GCs under my belt but that question of what will the Allied opponent do does cause me a lot of pondering time. How, indeed, to achieve your objectives and stay flexible to counter the Allied reaction is a worthy topic to contemplate.

So, Cribtop, how well do you know your opponent?

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Post #: 43

RE: NFC East Showdown: Cribtop (J) vs nygiants59 (A) -... - 7/20/2014 1:44:03 AM

Cribtop

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That is a good question, and candidly I don't know him well.

What I do know is that Michael is very experienced with production, logistics, training, etc. He is clearly intelligent and knows the nuances of the game in detail.

What I DON'T know is whether he is aggressive, passive or somewhere in between. I would be interested to hear from those who have played Michael or read his AARs.

I personally am aggressive but not crazy. I love the offensive but not to the extent that my pants are blowing in the wind.

I am thus expecting a competent and fairly active defense, but not expecting wild early adventures from Michael. Am I way off or spot on? It does matter, no doubt.

< Message edited by Cribtop -- 7/20/2014 2:44:39 AM >

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RE: NFC East Showdown: Cribtop (J) vs nygiants59 (A) -... - 7/20/2014 1:47:10 AM

Cribtop

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wargmr

I am jealous that your AAR exceeds 500 hits before a single AAR... ;]

I'm blushing about this a bit myself. Thanks for the great support, readers! When we get started I may win, lose or draw, but either way I hope it's an entertaining show.

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Post #: 45

RE: NFC East Showdown: Cribtop (J) vs nygiants59 (A) -... - 7/20/2014 1:51:36 AM

Cribtop

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Let's leave the strategy discussion open while we move to another question: R&D.

As I understand it, the A6M4 is a land-based IJNAF interceptor of some value in this mod.

My general R&D plan is to pursue the Zero, Tojo, Frank and George lines pretty heavily. Lesser but useful emphasis to the Jill and Judy. Finally, just for fun I'd like to put a factory or two working on the Sam. For the IJAAF, the Helen will be the main weapon, with the Peggy researched as well. This area is not my strong suit, so please jump in with advice.

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Post #: 46

RE: NFC East Showdown: Cribtop (J) vs nygiants59 (A) -... - 7/20/2014 7:24:04 AM

obvert

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As I understand it the dates are advanced for most of the important planes anyway, so I'd concentrate a bit more on the Sam. It's a really good plane. I'd also throw a bit into the Ki-83. Gies you some potential for sweeps late and is great for LR CAP as well.

Make sure to look at the NF lines in this one, and get one factory for each NF plane you are able to use. You'll want ALL NF you can get late. It's also important to look at the paths of upgrading to the various NF which are sometimes obscure.

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RE: NFC East Showdown: Cribtop (J) vs nygiants59 (A) -... - 7/20/2014 2:01:35 PM

John 3rd

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You'll get Jill and Judy earlier. The M4 Zero is a solid performer who can stay competitive into 1943, however, it is only used for LBA. Concur on Mister SAM. Good plane there.

As to Michael--a few tidbits--he:

1. Always places a Marine Fighter Squadron on his CVs so they pack 45 or so fighters EACH.
2. He loves to combine the Brits and Americans to create an Allied 'Death Star' way early.
3. Training his pilots so they can compete is a big thing so sometimes he won't even fight early in the war in the air.

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Post #: 48

RE: NFC East Showdown: Cribtop (J) vs nygiants59 (A) -... - 7/20/2014 4:30:56 PM

Cribtop

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Good info gents. How many factories should be allocated to a plane I "want?" 3X30? More?

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RE: NFC East Showdown: Cribtop (J) vs nygiants59 (A) -... - 7/20/2014 9:29:02 PM

JuanG

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cribtop

Good info gents. How many factories should be allocated to a plane I "want?" 3X30? More?

At least.

I have a total of 7 size 30s split between the two Zero lines in my RA game, and those seem to be doing a solid job. For later aircraft I will probably aim for similar numbers, depending on how the industry is doing (RA is really harsh on this one, I nearly wrecked mine in February/March due to my attention being elsewhere). I do not plan to convert any R&D facilities to production, but rather either move to the next model down or to another airframe as needed.

Also, apologies for not getting anything to you on the signature front yet, but I have yet to come up with anything adequate, and frankly looking at the lovely piece obvert put together I don't think I have any chance of being competitive...

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RE: NFC East Showdown: Cribtop (J) vs nygiants59 (A) -... - 7/20/2014 9:38:31 PM

Lowpe

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Protect your early oil/refinery captures really quickly with air power...just saying.

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RE: NFC East Showdown: Cribtop (J) vs nygiants59 (A) -... - 7/21/2014 5:55:52 AM

CaptBeefheart

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I think you make it look like you are going for auto-vic early to keep him unbalanced (OODA loop and all that), but all the while play for the long game. Part of the deception is not even telling us readers.

Cheers,
CC

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RE: NFC East Showdown: Cribtop (J) vs nygiants59 (A) -... - 7/21/2014 6:06:36 AM

GreyJoy

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Subscribed!!!!!!!

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RE: NFC East Showdown: Cribtop (J) vs nygiants59 (A) -... - 7/21/2014 6:31:54 AM

John 3rd

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GREAT NEWS. I just got RA 7.0 finished. Juan has already done his off-map aircraft upgrades done so it is finished.

This means I have a real chance of having Between the Storms READY by Tuesday. You boys will be able to RUMBLE at that point.

BANZAI!

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Post #: 54

RE: NFC East Showdown: Cribtop (J) vs nygiants59 (A) -... - 7/21/2014 2:43:16 PM

Cribtop

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Nice - thanks for the hard work John!

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RE: NFC East Showdown: Cribtop (J) vs nygiants59 (A) -... - 7/21/2014 4:58:46 PM

Lecivius

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I see a welcome and familiar face lurking in the shadows. You have gathered a lot of attention

Attachment (1)

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RE: NFC East Showdown: Cribtop (J) vs nygiants59 (A) -... - 7/21/2014 6:06:12 PM

GreyJoy

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Come back Dan!!!!!

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RE: NFC East Showdown: Cribtop (J) vs nygiants59 (A) -... - 7/21/2014 6:43:22 PM

Mike McCreery

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We miss you dan!!

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Post #: 58

RE: NFC East Showdown: Cribtop (J) vs nygiants59 (A) -... - 7/21/2014 7:30:35 PM

Cribtop

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DAN!!!!

I'm not sure we can truly express how much he added to the community, and how much we all miss him.

< Message edited by Cribtop -- 7/21/2014 8:35:00 PM >

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Post #: 59

RE: NFC East Showdown: Cribtop (J) vs nygiants59 (A) -... - 7/21/2014 7:43:29 PM

Cribtop

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Two points here:

1) On R&D, I may then look to go with 7ish factories committed to the following models: Zero line, Tojo line, Frank, George, Ki-83, Sam. Lesser commitments to Helen and Peggy. Sounds like Judy and Jill come early anyway. What commitments to night fighters should I make? What implications arise from the engines all of these planes use (I haven't checked but will soon)? Perhaps most importantly, given the tradeoffs inherent in the mod, starting reserves of supply, oil and fuel are lower than stock. Until I conquer the DEI, should I set this up and hold off on actually repairing some or all of the factories? IMHO the slow speed of R&D repair would tell me it's fine to let it ride, but I'm not sure.

2) Back on strategy, I have wondered for some time whether there is a certain "minimum overextension" option to go for auto victory, and a recent PM has me thinking along those lines again. In other words, beyond the "normal" perimeter, what is the minimum bases needed for a real shot at auto vic? Is this at all viable or is it necessary to go big in India, Oz, etc? The basic idea might be normal conquests plus the big SOPAC bases (Noumea, Fiji, etc) plus a heavy push in China plus whatever is needed to go "over the top." Is that Perth? More? I haven't crunched any numbers on this, has anyone else? I am leery of going for an Indian conquest or a total occupation of Oz (remember Between the Storms add lots of ships but few troops). Is there another way?

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