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Gravitic Weapons and Space Monsters - 7/21/2014 9:05:36 AM   
Icemania


Posts: 1847
Joined: 6/5/2013
From: Australia
Status: offline 		Gravitic Weapons cause very little damage to Space Monsters e.g. a Giant Kaltor.

I'm reporting this as a bug due to the Galactopedia description. For Gravitic Beams they "shake and damage the target" and for Gravity Area Weapons they "inflict enormous vibrational damage". This description appears quite relevant to a Giant Kaltor.

This is also a major disadvantage for Gravitic Weapons focused races where the research costs are already high, and become even higher if they have to invest in other weapons just to deal with Space Monsters.


< Message edited by Icemania -- 7/21/2014 3:23:24 PM >
Post #: 1
RE: Gravitic Weapons and Space Monsters - 7/21/2014 9:18:42 AM   
johanwanderer

 

Posts: 209
Joined: 6/28/2014
Status: offline 		I'm not disagreeing with you, but maybe organic beings are less affected by vibrational damage?

(in reply to Icemania)
Post #: 2
RE: Gravitic Weapons and Space Monsters - 7/21/2014 9:54:44 AM   
Icemania


Posts: 1847
Joined: 6/5/2013
From: Australia
Status: offline 		Organic beings don't handle vibration well either. I don't mind if it's reduced, just not zero.

(in reply to johanwanderer)
Post #: 3
RE: Gravitic Weapons and Space Monsters - 7/21/2014 12:06:38 PM   
ehsumrell1


Posts: 2529
Joined: 8/17/2010
From: The Briar Patch Nebula
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Icemania

Gravitic Weapons do not cause damage to Space Monsters e.g. a Giant Kaltor.

I'm reporting this as a bug due to the Galactopedia description. For Gravitic Beams they "shake and damage the target" and for Gravity Area Weapons they "inflict enormous vibrational damage". This description appears quite relevant to a Giant Kaltor.

This is also a major disadvantage for Gravitic Weapons focused races where the research costs are already high, and become even higher if they have to invest in other weapons just to deal with Space Monsters.


Hello Icemania;

Respectfully speaking, it's my belief that (at least concerning Kaltors and SilverMists) their physical
makeup would seem to make them very nearly immune to Gravitic weapons. I would think that is why
Elliot has them also immune to shielding, since Kaltors can eat right through them and so can the SilverMist (all space creatures to a point actually).
Thus they are actually a threat and a challenge in the game instead of just target practice.
In all of my testing experience I've never looked at it as a bug but WAD. But if you feel differently
you can PM Elliot and he might possibly explain his actual reasoning on the matter.


< Message edited by ehsumrell1 -- 7/21/2014 1:09:25 PM >

_____________________________

Shields are useless in "The Briar Patch"...

(in reply to Icemania)
Post #: 4
RE: Gravitic Weapons and Space Monsters - 7/21/2014 12:33:21 PM   
Icemania


Posts: 1847
Joined: 6/5/2013
From: Australia
Status: offline 		I understand, but this creates a significant disadvantage for a single Weapon type that is already expensive to research. Even Tech Level 7 Gravity Area Weapons have no effect. A Space Slug will defeat a Size 1500 Tech Level 7 Gravitic Area Weapon Capital Ship.

Kaltors are part of all pre-warp games and normal expansion so this is a significant barrier to the idea that a race could focus on Gravitic Weapons, because they are doomed as soon as they discover Warp. The only option is to research other weapons and include them in the templates.

Note that on Page 30 of the Modding Guide the idea of a Gravitic Weapons focused race is specifically mentioned, yet it's problematic in practice.

As a compromise why not reduce damage to Space Creatures when Gravitics are used, but not by so much at is currently the case, so that Gravitic AI races have a chance?

< Message edited by Icemania -- 7/21/2014 1:58:59 PM >

(in reply to ehsumrell1)
Post #: 5
RE: Gravitic Weapons and Space Monsters - 7/21/2014 1:03:05 PM   
Efaferal

 

Posts: 45
Joined: 6/4/2014
Status: offline 		@Icemania
I have to dissent on your evaluation.
All weapons shouldn't be able to do everything IMHO.
Gravitic weapons provide an incredible advantage on the ship to ship front so an incredible weakness against a fairly low level item seems appropriate. However I would agree there should be some effect. Even -50% or more damage seems appropriate.

Disclaimer
I am a big fan of a RPS so I like the idea that specializing increases firepower, but opens up an ultimate weakness somewhere.

(in reply to Icemania)
Post #: 6
RE: Gravitic Weapons and Space Monsters - 7/21/2014 1:24:51 PM   
Icemania


Posts: 1847
Joined: 6/5/2013
From: Australia
Status: offline 		Actually we are agreeing. As I said earlier I'm happy for Gravitics to have less impact against Space Creatures than other weapons. Now I've just repeated what Elhazad reported in the AI Improvement Mod thread where the Giant Kaltors that arrive Pre-Warp wiped out everything for a Gravitic race. All I'm suggesting is some balance since I can't mod this.


(in reply to Efaferal)
Post #: 7
RE: Gravitic Weapons and Space Monsters - 7/21/2014 1:48:21 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline 		Actually, they should cause some damage, just less than to other targets. We'll investigate.

_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC



For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to Icemania)
Post #: 8
RE: Gravitic Weapons and Space Monsters - 7/21/2014 1:57:14 PM   
Icemania


Posts: 1847
Joined: 6/5/2013
From: Australia
Status: offline 		Yes my apologies you are quite right they do cause some damage but it's very low, and not enough to give a Gravitically focused AI race a chance.

It probably wasn't visible with Default Races. Various designs for the Haakonish for example also have Torpedoes. But in the AI Improvement Mod, I've made them completely focused on Gravitics both in the designs and research order.


< Message edited by Icemania -- 7/21/2014 3:09:09 PM >

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 9
RE: Gravitic Weapons and Space Monsters - 8/15/2014 10:09:10 AM   
Icemania


Posts: 1847
Joined: 6/5/2013
From: Australia
Status: offline 		There has been no further response to this bug, please advise.

(in reply to Icemania)
Post #: 10
RE: Gravitic Weapons and Space Monsters - 8/15/2014 8:53:19 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline 		It's still on our list.

_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC



For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to Icemania)
Post #: 11
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