Gravitic Weapons and Space Monsters (Full Version)

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Icemania -> Gravitic Weapons and Space Monsters (7/21/2014 9:05:36 AM)

Gravitic Weapons cause very little damage to Space Monsters e.g. a Giant Kaltor.

I'm reporting this as a bug due to the Galactopedia description. For Gravitic Beams they "shake and damage the target" and for Gravity Area Weapons they "inflict enormous vibrational damage". This description appears quite relevant to a Giant Kaltor.

This is also a major disadvantage for Gravitic Weapons focused races where the research costs are already high, and become even higher if they have to invest in other weapons just to deal with Space Monsters.



johanwanderer -> RE: Gravitic Weapons and Space Monsters (7/21/2014 9:18:42 AM)

I'm not disagreeing with you, but maybe organic beings are less affected by vibrational damage?



Icemania -> RE: Gravitic Weapons and Space Monsters (7/21/2014 9:54:44 AM)

Organic beings don't handle vibration well either. I don't mind if it's reduced, just not zero.



ehsumrell1 -> RE: Gravitic Weapons and Space Monsters (7/21/2014 12:06:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Icemania

Gravitic Weapons do not cause damage to Space Monsters e.g. a Giant Kaltor.

I'm reporting this as a bug due to the Galactopedia description. For Gravitic Beams they "shake and damage the target" and for Gravity Area Weapons they "inflict enormous vibrational damage". This description appears quite relevant to a Giant Kaltor.

This is also a major disadvantage for Gravitic Weapons focused races where the research costs are already high, and become even higher if they have to invest in other weapons just to deal with Space Monsters.


Hello Icemania;

Respectfully speaking, it's my belief that (at least concerning Kaltors and SilverMists) their physical
makeup would seem to make them very nearly immune to Gravitic weapons. I would think that is why
Elliot has them also immune to shielding, since Kaltors can eat right through them and so can the SilverMist (all space creatures to a point actually).
Thus they are actually a threat and a challenge in the game instead of just target practice.
In all of my testing experience I've never looked at it as a bug but WAD. But if you feel differently
you can PM Elliot and he might possibly explain his actual reasoning on the matter.
[:)]



Icemania -> RE: Gravitic Weapons and Space Monsters (7/21/2014 12:33:21 PM)

I understand, but this creates a significant disadvantage for a single Weapon type that is already expensive to research. Even Tech Level 7 Gravity Area Weapons have no effect. A Space Slug will defeat a Size 1500 Tech Level 7 Gravitic Area Weapon Capital Ship.

Kaltors are part of all pre-warp games and normal expansion so this is a significant barrier to the idea that a race could focus on Gravitic Weapons, because they are doomed as soon as they discover Warp. The only option is to research other weapons and include them in the templates.

Note that on Page 30 of the Modding Guide the idea of a Gravitic Weapons focused race is specifically mentioned, yet it's problematic in practice.

As a compromise why not reduce damage to Space Creatures when Gravitics are used, but not by so much at is currently the case, so that Gravitic AI races have a chance?



Efaferal -> RE: Gravitic Weapons and Space Monsters (7/21/2014 1:03:05 PM)

@Icemania
I have to dissent on your evaluation.
All weapons shouldn't be able to do everything IMHO.
Gravitic weapons provide an incredible advantage on the ship to ship front so an incredible weakness against a fairly low level item seems appropriate. However I would agree there should be some effect. Even -50% or more damage seems appropriate.

Disclaimer
I am a big fan of a RPS so I like the idea that specializing increases firepower, but opens up an ultimate weakness somewhere.



Icemania -> RE: Gravitic Weapons and Space Monsters (7/21/2014 1:24:51 PM)

Actually we are agreeing. As I said earlier I'm happy for Gravitics to have less impact against Space Creatures than other weapons. Now I've just repeated what Elhazad reported in the AI Improvement Mod thread where the Giant Kaltors that arrive Pre-Warp wiped out everything for a Gravitic race. All I'm suggesting is some balance since I can't mod this.




Erik Rutins -> RE: Gravitic Weapons and Space Monsters (7/21/2014 1:48:21 PM)

Actually, they should cause some damage, just less than to other targets. We'll investigate.



Icemania -> RE: Gravitic Weapons and Space Monsters (7/21/2014 1:57:14 PM)

Yes my apologies you are quite right they do cause some damage but it's very low, and not enough to give a Gravitically focused AI race a chance.

It probably wasn't visible with Default Races. Various designs for the Haakonish for example also have Torpedoes. But in the AI Improvement Mod, I've made them completely focused on Gravitics both in the designs and research order.



Icemania -> RE: Gravitic Weapons and Space Monsters (8/15/2014 10:09:10 AM)

There has been no further response to this bug, please advise.



Erik Rutins -> RE: Gravitic Weapons and Space Monsters (8/15/2014 8:53:19 PM)

It's still on our list.



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