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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 7/10/2014 7:25:27 PM

Hellen_slith

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rkr1958

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

Green for Default, Blue for Override.

Once France falls, the Germans will be able to attack the convoys in the Bay of Biscay with submarines based in Brest and naval air units along the coast. That means the North Atlantic convoy route should be shifted to the Faeroes Gap (as happened historically). Making that happen can pose a serious problem for the Commonwealth. The convoys can't simply move from one sea area to another, so they first have to return to port - where they arrive disorganized. You either have to have a complete replacement fleet already in port to sail out into the Faeroes Gap, or you need to reorganize all the convoys, or you suffer serious losses to your convoys in the Bay of Biscay, or you tear your hair out with no resources getting through to the United Kingdom for a turn because there are no convoys in either the Bay of Biscay or the Faeroes Gap.

For that reason, some players prefer to start with some convoys in the Faeroes Gap and others in the Bay of Biscay. The downside of having convoys in the Faeroes Gap before France falls, is that they are more vulnerable to German submarines coming through the North Sea.

Like many decisions in WIF, there are arguments for both viewpoints and you get to "pick your choose".

All these risk versus reward decisions, with no pat answers, seems to add a "richness" that I've yet to experience in my wargaming experiences. Winston Churchill was quoted as saying that the greatest threat to the survival of Britain in WW2 was from German u-boats. My impression is that MWiF (WiF) models this, and the Battle of the Atlantic, at both a detailed tactical and strategic level. I look forward to seeing how all this plays out and what grave mistakes I'm sure to make.

By the way, isn't setting up CW convoys in the Faeroes Gap to start with "exploiting" future knowledge that the CW wouldn't have, or certainly couldn't conceive happening? That is, the fall of France. I know ... we all exploit this knowledge in playing strategic WW2 games.

To me, no, I have been setting up convoys there in Faeroes Gap, only because it has looked to me like it was the right thing to do...it never crossed my mind that it would be even more important to have them there to gain an advantage later in the board game, it was just something that felt right for me to do at the time.

I compare WiF to chess, especially in the opening and middle game. If I follow a particular line in the Sicilian (or Barbarossa in WiF), I know how it will play out in the opening, and will follow the already proven paths, even if it means certain defeat of my opponent without any challenge.

At the same time, I hope that my opponent will present something new, and then we're on equal ground again (or maybe I will take a new path instead of them.)

As far as foreknowledge and using it in playing WWII games: I purposely try to pursue alternatives, precisely because I don't want things to play out just like they always did, it is more fun for me that way. YMMV :)

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 7/10/2014 8:49:49 PM

Courtenay

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The Game is in Sep/Oct Allied impulse #2, ie the Allies first impulse. France and the CW have just declared war on German, and the Germans are surprised. Thus they can not intercept. See picture:

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 7/10/2014 10:33:59 PM

paulderynck

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Not sure if you're referring to Allied or Axis impulses. Odd numbered ones are Axis unless you mean you're only counting the Allied ones...

Anyway - could it be the French were not intercepted in the impulse they and the CW DoW'd Germany? If so, that is correct because Germany would be surprised.

< Message edited by paulderynck -- 7/10/2014 11:33:49 PM >

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 7/11/2014 12:56:37 PM

rkr1958

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Courtenay

The Game is in Sep/Oct Allied impulse #2, ie the Allies first impulse. France and the CW have just declared war on German, and the Germans are surprised. Thus they can not intercept. See picture:

OK, so that's what going on! It didn't occur to me that the Germans could be surprised by a DOW from the CW and French after they (the Germans) started the war. So on the first allied impulse of the GW scenario, both French and RAF bombers get a free go at bombing production and oil targets in Germany. I need to add that on my list of tactics when I play the allies.

< Message edited by rkr1958 -- 7/11/2014 2:01:01 PM >

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 7/11/2014 1:05:05 PM

composer99

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They also get a free go (with land-based air) at German naval units if any are in range; which is why it's usually a good idea, when setting up as Germany, to count the range of CW and French aircraft (including extended range if you're playing with that option) and set up the amphib and transport units out of range.

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 7/11/2014 2:08:02 PM

Courtenay

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rkr1958
OK, so that's what going on! It didn't occur to me that the Germans could be surprised by a DOW from the CW and French after they (the Germans) started the war. So on the first allied impulse of the GW scenario, both French and RAF bombers get a free go at bombing production and oil targets in Germany. I need to add that on my list of tactics when I play the allies.

quote:

15. SURPRISE
Major powers and minor countries are surprised when a major power declares war on them, even if they are already at war with someone else. However, they are not surprised by a major power or minor country they are currently at war with. Furthermore, they are not surprised by land or aircraft units attacking from, or flying over, hexes controlled by a major power or minor country at war with them last impulse.

The effects of being surprised last only for that impulse (the �surprise impulse�).

Clarification: Controlled minors (and their units) can both surprise and be surprised; for this rule they are treated the same as their controlling major power.

Thus if either the US or SU declares war on Germany, rather than the other way around, it would get the benefit of surprise against Germany on the impulse it declares war. Similarly, if any Allied major power declares war on Japan, it would get the benefits of surprise against Japan, even though Japan is already at war with China, or if Japan declares war against the CW, it would get the benefit of surprise against the CW, even though the CW is at war with Germany.

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 7/11/2014 3:21:11 PM

rkr1958

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quote:

ORIGINAL: composer99

They also get a free go (with land-based air) at German naval units if any are in range; which is why it's usually a good idea, when setting up as Germany, to count the range of CW and French aircraft (including extended range if you're playing with that option) and set up the amphib and transport units out of range.

I'm learning. It was impulse #4 (second one for the allies). The RN deployed a large fleet in the North Sea that included three large aircraft carriers and two light ones. The air wings from the 3 large carriers pounded the German fleet at Kiel sinking the Graf Spee, damaging and partially aborting four other ships. Lesson learned - basing a large German fleet at Kiel at the start of the game is a bad idea!

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 7/11/2014 4:54:06 PM

Ur_Vile_WEdge

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Or at least leave a fighter nearby to protect them from marauding British carriers.

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 7/11/2014 6:27:06 PM

Courtenay

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Actually, port strikes that are not done during a surprise impulse are more often ineffective than not. Also, ones from carriers never come as a surprise, since you have to place the fleet the impulse before. This allows the defending player time to figure out how he is going to react to threat. As Ur_Vile notes, the Germans can get a FTR back to defend Kiel. Given the quality (if that is the word

) of the CW CVPs, one FTR should stop raids on Kiel quite effectively.

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 7/13/2014 1:43:35 AM

rkr1958

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I know the Nazi-Soviet pact can't be broken until 1940 at the earliest. My question is on the garrison calculation for Germany. Specifically, are the three aligned Hungarian and one Bulgarian corps included in the calculation for the Germans?

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 7/13/2014 1:48:47 AM

paulderynck

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They should be, if they are within 3 of the German-Russian border.

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 7/13/2014 2:07:49 AM

composer99

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As paulderynck notes, the aligned minor units ought to be included in the pact garrison.

You may wish to verify by adding up the garrison of the German-national units. If that garrison comes up 4 short, then you're good. If not, there's a problem.

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 7/13/2014 3:44:07 PM

rkr1958

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quote:

ORIGINAL: composer99

As paulderynck notes, the aligned minor units ought to be included in the pact garrison.

You may wish to verify by adding up the garrison of the German-national units. If that garrison comes up 4 short, then you're good. If not, there's a problem.

They seem to add in if I'm counting correctly. And, with respect to counting I'd like to make sure I have it right.

< Message edited by rkr1958 -- 7/13/2014 4:45:43 PM >

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 7/13/2014 4:35:12 PM

rkr1958

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rkr1958

quote:

ORIGINAL: composer99

As paulderynck notes, the aligned minor units ought to be included in the pact garrison.

You may wish to verify by adding up the garrison of the German-national units. If that garrison comes up 4 short, then you're good. If not, there's a problem.

They seem to add in if I'm counting correctly. And, with respect to counting I'd like to make sure I have it right.

When counting if a unit is within 3 hexes of a "common border", can that count cross a all sea hexside? Unless I'm missing something (which is entirely possible), that's the only way I can my count to match the form.

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 7/13/2014 6:22:06 PM

paulderynck

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All-sea hexsides and intervening neutral hexes have absolutely no effect on the 3-hex range.

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 7/13/2014 7:34:51 PM

Centuur

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rkr1958

quote:

ORIGINAL: rkr1958

quote:

ORIGINAL: composer99

As paulderynck notes, the aligned minor units ought to be included in the pact garrison.

You may wish to verify by adding up the garrison of the German-national units. If that garrison comes up 4 short, then you're good. If not, there's a problem.

They seem to add in if I'm counting correctly. And, with respect to counting I'd like to make sure I have it right.

When counting if a unit is within 3 hexes of a "common border", can that count cross a all sea hexside? Unless I'm missing something (which is entirely possible), that's the only way I can my count to match the form.

Yes. Here is the description of the common border out of RAW:

Common border [any hex you
control within 3 hexes of a hex
controlled by another major
power is part of your common
border with that major power]

It doesn't matter whether there is a neutral country in between too...

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 7/19/2014 9:37:28 PM

rkr1958

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I'm happy to report that I think I'm getting the hang of how to play this game. Now mind you, not play it well but just play it. Me learning and playing WiF was only possible because of MWiF. There's no way that I would have tackled WiF with cardboard and paper. I just wouldn't have the time, space or energy without MWiF.

Back to what, I think, I'm learning. With respect to oil, the game seems to be teaching me to take advantage of 0.4 or less fractional oil points when reorganizing. What I mean for example is that if reorganizing everything would cost 2.5 oil points then this will round off to 3 and result in wasting a half of oil point. In that case, I would decide not to reorganize a lesser important unit (say a CA), which then would cost 2.4 oil points total and round down to 2 oil points saving me a full oil point. That is, choosing to not reorganize a unit that cost 0.1 points could save me a full point. Also, if for countries like China and the Soviet Union (prewar) if you keep the reorganization cost to 0.4 or less, then you expend no oil points.

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 7/20/2014 12:58:45 AM

rkr1958

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My understanding is that there is a bug in the current version where build points won't be saved. I've been playing under that assumption and so I've been using all build points for each power, each turn. I would like to save them up for some countries to buy more expensive units; but I don't want to lose them.

Is that correct?

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 7/20/2014 3:40:57 AM

paulderynck

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My understanding is that if you save only one in each city/factory; you'll be OK.

I've played the game a very long time, and you'd have a tough time convincing me why you'd ever want to save more than 3 or 4 max in any one turn anyway. Maybe late in the game saving with the Chinese, and JP is on the ropes, you'd save for an O-chit...

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 7/20/2014 3:42:00 AM

paulderynck

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rkr1958

Back to what, I think, I'm learning. With respect to oil, the game seems to be teaching me to take advantage of 0.4 or less fractional oil points when reorganizing. What I mean for example is that if reorganizing everything would cost 2.5 oil points then this will round off to 3 and result in wasting a half of oil point. In that case, I would decide not to reorganize a lesser important unit (say a CA), which then would cost 2.4 oil points total and round down to 2 oil points saving me a full oil point. That is, choosing to not reorganize a unit that cost 0.1 points could save me a full point. Also, if for countries like China and the Soviet Union (prewar) if you keep the reorganization cost to 0.4 or less, then you expend no oil points.

Very good. But don't forget an extra CP every turn to make it a point 45.

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 7/20/2014 3:47:57 PM

rkr1958

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quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

My understanding is that if you save only one in each city/factory; you'll be OK.

I've played the game a very long time, and you'd have a tough time convincing me why you'd ever want to save more than 3 or 4 max in any one turn anyway. Maybe late in the game saving with the Chinese, and JP is on the ropes, you'd save for an O-chit...

Thanks. In reading through yvesp's AAR I see that the same bug applies to oil? That is, you can only save 1 oil point per city. It that true too?

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 7/20/2014 6:33:37 PM

paulderynck

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I cannot recall if that's still a current bug, but if so, it and any BPs issues should be getting fixed soon as part of the Production Planning fixes.

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 7/20/2014 6:34:54 PM

Courtenay

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rkr1958

quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

My understanding is that if you save only one in each city/factory; you'll be OK.

I've played the game a very long time, and you'd have a tough time convincing me why you'd ever want to save more than 3 or 4 max in any one turn anyway. Maybe late in the game saving with the Chinese, and JP is on the ropes, you'd save for an O-chit...

Thanks. In reading through yvesp's AAR I see that the same bug applies to oil? That is, you can only save 1 oil point per city. It that true too?

At the moment, yes. I have stopped my AAR until it has been fixed, because the Japanese don't have enough convoy points to ship the NEI oil home, and so had been saving it place; unfortunately, a large fraction of it disappears. I hope that this bug will be fixed soon; it has already been fixed once, but has reappeared.

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 7/26/2014 6:24:47 PM

rkr1958

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I'm having a blasts playing through my first Global War Scenario! My question is:

What does it take to conquer France?

In my other strategic wargames, the capture of Paris will do. Though, in CEaW GS, the capture of Paris results in the French offer of an armistice to the German, which they can accept or refuse. If they accept, then France surrenders and Vichy is formed. If they (the Germans) refuse the armistice, the fighting continues with the surviving French forces join in with the British forces.

I know ... I know ... I need to read through the books and I will. But honestly, playing the game and learning through playing is much more fun than reading through the books. Though, I do appreciate the books. I'd just rather be playing the game.

In learning how to play a strategic wargame (i.e., MWiF (WiF) in this case), I like to play a game (or games) basically following the historical sequence. That is Poland-Denmark-Holland-Belgium then France, Yugoslavia-Greece and finally the USSR. Notice that I've left Norway out. My experience is that as the axis player the risks (and pain) of going after Norway far outweigh the potential gains of conquering it. Also, I've found that the resources diverted and potentially tied up in an Operation Wesenbung could, by far, be put to better use in Case Yellow (i.e., Holland-Belgium-France campaign). And what I understand about MWiF (or WiF), the same lesson applies.

While I'm, with minor deviations (i.e., no Norway and no winter war against Finland), following the historical sequence in this game, I am not adhering to the timeline. For example, I easily conquered Poland in Sep/Oct '39, Denmark in Nov/Dec '39, Holland and Belgium in Jan/Feb '40 and launched my attack against France and the BEF in Mar/Apr 40. I would have attacked Denmark in Sep/Oct '39; but didn't get fair weather for the remainder of the turn after the 1st (and 2nd) impulse. Bad luck I know, but I got fair weather on the first two impulses of both the Nov/Dec '39 and Jan/Feb '40 turns in the west. Good luck. I also got fair weather on the first four impulses of the Mar/Apr '40 turn.

What's impress me so far is how well the Germans have done with respect to the historical timeline of their conquests to date. And, it's only Mar/Apr '40 and the Germans have already broken through the allied lines and are at the outskirts of Paris. Through, I must admit this could be the result of my poor, or inexperience, defensive play. On the first axis impulse (2nd impulse overall) of this turn, I used an offensive chit and Rundstedt to double my ground attacks in order to break through in two places. These attacks outright destroyed two French corps and shatter two more. I also got lucky on a ground strike that disrupted Georges' HQ unit and a 5-2 reserve corps in a 3rd hex. Two BEF corps, which had move into Belgium just west of Antwerp, were at risk of being cutoff. All the British and French could do on their next, the 3rd impulse, was pull back and try to reestablish their defensive line. Which the Germans broke through again destroying George and 3 other French corps.

With the French, and British, reeling for these attacks, Mussolini though it was a good time to enter the war and take what they could in the south. However; they rolled a 1 on their 4-1 attack against a French 2-3 corps in Nice.

One thing, among many I'm sure, that I'm not doing very well is getting German u-boats into action against British convoys. Last impulse, which was #4, I did choose a combined for the Germans which allowed them to move 2 u-boat units to the Bay of Biscay. Though, both sides searches failed. This leads me to my second question:

How do you, the experience players, make German u-boats the threat in MWiF (WiF) that they were in the real war?

Now, while I've only discussed the War in Europe, the Japanese in China are making progress. It's slow and cumbersome but they seem to be making steady gains. I can see the difficulty Japan will have when they're at war with the US in a year and half (or so), balancing the priorities between naval and land operations.

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< Message edited by rkr1958 -- 7/26/2014 7:29:56 PM >

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 7/26/2014 7:13:12 PM

paulderynck

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In MWiF, if Germany takes and holds Paris they can impose Vichy at the end of the turn. It's up to them, they can go for conquest if they want, which requires the capture of all the factories in France. Or once Germany takes 8 or more of the factories, France can surrender. They might do that to save their fleet and/or if they have assets in their colonies that they would rather have as Free French than risk going Vichy, because Germany can always change its mind and declare Vichy as long as they hold Paris.

After Vichy or conquest, Germany can turn towards Russia or try going for the Med. If they want to go through Spain to get at Gibraltar, it is tough to do with Vichy already declared, unless they want to add more US entry (and create or strengthen Free France) by collapsing it right away.

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 7/26/2014 7:38:47 PM

composer99

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To make U-boats a threat, you obviously want to have them based on the Atlantic seaboard. Brest is best because they are safe from aerial attack.

You also need to invest in 2-4 bp per turn early on, and more later, on sub units with both Germany & Italy. The Germans can sail out once a turn (or once every two turns if they just drop boxes) and let the Italians activate most of the time.

You need quite a few subs in 1940-1942 to really hurt CW convoy lines. But if you do, you can really hurt them badly.

Later, when allied ASW gets too good, you can plop your subs in the Atlantic sea lanes for the purpose of interdicting transport traffic.

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 7/26/2014 8:32:16 PM

rkr1958

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Why can't I disembark the CW 7-4 mot corps to Rouen?

It can't be because of the Foreign troop commitment. Gort is in France and I just pulled that mot corps and a 6-6 CW mech corps out of France from Boulogne and Calais. That is, they were both in France, along with Gort, at the start of the impulse.

Is there some other reason to why I can't disembark either corps back into France?

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 7/26/2014 9:03:25 PM

composer99

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I can't think of one. You may have hit upon a bug.

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 7/26/2014 9:24:40 PM

Centuur

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Can you upload a zipped saved game here? If so, we can investigate what is happening here...

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 7/26/2014 10:14:11 PM

rkr1958

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur

Can you upload a zipped saved game here? If so, we can investigate what is happening here...

I had saved the game at that point for just such a request. Before uploading it, I always reload the saved game to make sure it's the correct save and I still see the bug. It's the correct save, but now I can disembark the CW corps into France. Apparently the save and reload did the trick? Do you still want the saved game?

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