Which is faster space port building, planet or constructor?

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Which is faster space port building, planet or constructor?

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Which is faster space port building, planet or construc... - 7/28/2014 8:31:54 PM

corwin90

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Novice question here. I build a minimal small space port with Medical/Recreation above each new colony. I've been telling the planet to build it. But should I instead send a constructor? Assuming I have mid-game tech, which is faster, a constructor or a 30M planet? (Or, versus a 60M population planet?)

Even if the planet could build it faster than the constructor, would the constructor be faster because it would gather all the materials from an established colony? I can't tell you how many times I get messages about resource shortages at new colonies.

Thanks for the help!

Post #: 1

RE: Which is faster space port building, planet or cons... - 7/28/2014 8:37:23 PM

Tryam

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At first probably a Constructor.

(in reply to corwin90)

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RE: Which is faster space port building, planet or cons... - 7/28/2014 8:58:05 PM

ParagonExile

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^What he said.

That being said, don't place space ports above every colony, as that will cause the game to ship and stockpile resources at every world instead of at a few key locations. Use a starbase for the medical center and recreation center, and your civilian ships won't stockpile. This will give you a huge boost to efficiency! :D

(in reply to Tryam)

Post #: 3

RE: Which is faster space port building, planet or cons... - 7/28/2014 9:40:34 PM

Nanaki

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The problem is, if your planet does not have a starport than it will not export resources.

_____________________________

I ate the batter of the bulge at Hans' Haus of Luftwaffles

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Post #: 4

RE: Which is faster space port building, planet or cons... - 7/28/2014 11:00:23 PM

Skyjack

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Joined: 7/28/2014
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nanaki

The problem is, if your planet does not have a starport than it will not export resources.

Is this confirmed?

Okay so as a Newb I'm now totally confused. Do we need a space port at each colony or not?

(in reply to Nanaki)

Post #: 5

RE: Which is faster space port building, planet or cons... - 7/28/2014 11:04:18 PM

Vardis

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Joined: 6/20/2014
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Skyjack

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nanaki

The problem is, if your planet does not have a starport than it will not export resources.

Is this confirmed?

Okay so as a Newb I'm now totally confused. Do we need a space port at each colony or not?

I can confirm that it isn't the case. Colonies are exporting their resources just fine in my game. They do that even without any starbase at all. Perhaps there are issues if you have a starbase but don't have a commerce center? No idea what the problem is that others have run into.

(in reply to Skyjack)

Post #: 6

RE: Which is faster space port building, planet or cons... - 7/28/2014 11:49:39 PM

Skyjack

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Vardis

quote:

ORIGINAL: Skyjack

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nanaki

The problem is, if your planet does not have a starport than it will not export resources.

Is this confirmed?

Okay so as a Newb I'm now totally confused. Do we need a space port at each colony or not?

I can confirm that it isn't the case. Colonies are exporting their resources just fine in my game. They do that even without any starbase at all. Perhaps there are issues if you have a starbase but don't have a commerce center? No idea what the problem is that others have run into.

We are talking about Starports, not star bases right?

(in reply to Vardis)

Post #: 7

RE: Which is faster space port building, planet or cons... - 7/28/2014 11:54:07 PM

Vardis

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Yes, the claim I've seen made repeatedly is that if you don't have a starport (a starbase w/ a construction yard), then your colonies do not export resources. Since I'm seeing them export resources not only when they don't have a starport, but when they don't have any starbase to speak of, that blanket statement is not true. It is not necessary for your planet to have a starport in order to export resources.

The only time I've ever had problems with exporting resources from a location is when I made a starbase rather than a base with a mining station role to extract a super luxury, and I think I forgot the commerce center or something, because no one ever came to pick up the mined materials.

(in reply to Skyjack)

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RE: Which is faster space port building, planet or cons... - 7/29/2014 2:18:45 AM

Mortimer14

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Joined: 7/24/2014
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Skyjack

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vardis

quote:

ORIGINAL: Skyjack

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nanaki

The problem is, if your planet does not have a starport than it will not export resources.

Is this confirmed?

Okay so as a Newb I'm now totally confused. Do we need a space port at each colony or not?

I can confirm that it isn't the case. Colonies are exporting their resources just fine in my game. They do that even without any starbase at all. Perhaps there are issues if you have a starbase but don't have a commerce center? No idea what the problem is that others have run into.

We are talking about Starports, not star bases right?

Since you can build both a starport and a mining station on the same planet, why not do both. Give the mining station extra docking bays and more cargo slots, and your freighters can ship from either of them.

Personally though, I design mining right into my starport so they perform all three functions (research, mining, and manufacturing). When I get a size boost then I add the recreational centers.
I also build at least a small one at every colony so that my ships never have to go far to repair or refuel. Also, building new ships are faster when done over a dozen ports instead of waiting for space on one or two.

So far I haven't had any trouble with maintenance costs but I'm only up to "hard" on my games.

(in reply to Skyjack)

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RE: Which is faster space port building, planet or cons... - 7/29/2014 2:52:10 PM

corwin90

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Shouldn't a colony world extract resources from a planet without a mining station on a star base? If so, then isn't it an exploit to build a mining station on a colony world?

(in reply to Mortimer14)

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RE: Which is faster space port building, planet or cons... - 7/29/2014 3:28:12 PM

feelotraveller

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Yes colonies do mine their own resources. You can't build a mining station at a colony (and if there is already one it is demolished during the colonisation process). I regard it as an exploit that you can build mining starbases which ignore the resource cap (since the resource cap exists for a purpose). Not going to stop a bunch of players doing it. Just hate it when they then scream that the game is too easy...

(in reply to corwin90)

Post #: 11

RE: Which is faster space port building, planet or cons... - 7/29/2014 3:56:56 PM

corwin90

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Thanks! Would you please explain a bit more about what you mean by the resource cap? By that, do you mean that a mining station with an infinite number of mining modules will only mine up to the resource cap? Thus, if you have a planet and a mining starbase, you could get effectively double the resource cap? (Which is a HUGE exploit...)

(in reply to feelotraveller)

Post #: 12

RE: Which is faster space port building, planet or cons... - 7/29/2014 4:32:51 PM

ParagonExile

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Joined: 6/9/2014
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quote:

ORIGINAL: corwin90

Thanks! Would you please explain a bit more about what you mean by the resource cap? By that, do you mean that a mining station with an infinite number of mining modules will only mine up to the resource cap? Thus, if you have a planet and a mining starbase, you could get effectively double the resource cap? (Which is a HUGE exploit...)

There is a hard limit to how effective a mining platform can be.

In the early game, you can reach it with three mining engines, in the late game in requires two. I forget the exact numbers and math, but it's somewhat low.

It's also worth mentioning that colonies do not extract resources at the cap like mining stations can, but below it.

< Message edited by ParagonExile -- 7/29/2014 5:34:00 PM >

(in reply to corwin90)

Post #: 13

RE: Which is faster space port building, planet or cons... - 7/29/2014 5:59:12 PM

feelotraveller

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Actually early game you need 4 mining engines to reach the cap, but only 2 gas extractors. The figures are a cap of 10 for minerals and luxuries (lowest mining tech is extraction rate of 3, hence you need 3.33... for the cap to be reached) and 40 for gas (start tech is 20).

The mining rate of colonies is variable depending upon the population. (In my experience a medium sized colony mines at about the rate of 2 mining engines. I expect it is actually some kind of exponential calculation.)

In practice these days I rarely use more than one engine for my bases near the start of the game but YMMV. The only usual exception to this is my starting gas mine (fuel, that is) which will get two for a while. (Sometimes the poor quality Silicon source in a pre-warp start gets 2 as well.)

In certain circumstances however it is true that the exploit is huge.

(in reply to ParagonExile)

Post #: 14

RE: Which is faster space port building, planet or cons... - 7/30/2014 2:35:55 AM

Mortimer14

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Joined: 7/24/2014
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quote:

ORIGINAL: feelotraveller

Yes colonies do mine their own resources. You can't build a mining station at a colony (and if there is already one it is demolished during the colonisation process). I regard it as an exploit that you can build mining starbases which ignore the resource cap (since the resource cap exists for a purpose). Not going to stop a bunch of players doing it. Just hate it when they then scream that the game is too easy...

Not so, at least not in DW: U on "normal". I've built mining stations on worlds that I couldn't colonize at the time (i.e. ice planet without ice planet colony tech). The mining station was still there and being used once the colony was up and running.

I'm not imagining it either, try it yourself.

(in reply to feelotraveller)

Post #: 15

RE: Which is faster space port building, planet or cons... - 7/30/2014 2:54:36 AM

Vardis

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Every time I do that, the mining station automatically goes away.

(in reply to Mortimer14)

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RE: Which is faster space port building, planet or cons... - 7/30/2014 3:03:47 AM

Mortimer14

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The original question on this thread got me wondering, so I started a game with a minimum number of stars, no aliens/monsters and one opponent set at "distant".

All options in every setup screen were set to "manual" as well as ticking off the option that "new ships start at automatic".

I paused the game as soon as I could, modified the default construction ship and the small space port to reduce costs and therefore speed construction. Also, I created a "Star Base" for use later.

I then saved at this point so I could start in the same place several times.

2100.01.10 (ok I'm not as fast as I could have been).

For the first test I ordered the planet to build a construction ship with the intent of ordering it to build a small starport instead of having the planet do this.

Constructor was completed at 2100.04.11

I hit pause and tried to set the order to build a starport. There was no option on the build menu to build a starport ... a starbase was there but my design didn't have mfg or const yards.

Nothing that I could do with this, so I ordered it to build a gas mining station on the nearby gas giant and ordered the colony yard to build a starport and unpaused the game.

At 2100.07.15 the starport completed and I paused the game. The constructor noted that it was missing some resources to complete the mining station, but I left it there and concentrated on building other ships.

I ordered up 2 exploration ships, 2 destroyers, and 2 escorts and unpaused the game. Default small starport has three yards and one each mfg.

At 2101.11.34 both explorers and one destroyer were complete so I set them to automatic and checked the constructor.

The private sector took control of my starport to produce mining ships and freighters.

At 2102.15.01 the constructor still hadn't finished my gas mining station (still missing some resources) so I sent it back to refuel. During it's trip I ordered it back to "repair" the mining station and watched it go to the planet - I assume it was picking up the needed resources - and then back to the gas giant to finish up.

At 2104.33.15 there were several mining ships, gas mining ships and freighters of all sizes, two destroyers, two escorts and one constructor, plus the two explorers still working on my home system.

I didn't do any research during this time because I wanted to see what the basic ship could/would do.

I stopped the game at 2110 and started over with the intent of having the small starport built first.

2100.04.22 completed starport and ordered additional ships as above
2100.11.43 completed the constructor and ordered a gas mining station as before.
2101.01.43 gas mining station was completed without having to go back for more resources.
2101.35.14 completed all other ships and explored about 60% of the system.

==================
My conclusions from this is that:

1) building the constructor first doesn't make any sense because there aren't enough resources for it to build a gas mining station.
2) building both a starport and a construction ship takes about the same amount of time regardless of the order. But you need the starport to attract the resources that the construction ship will need.

I didn't pay any attention to what I had on hand on the planet before and after building, maybe I should have.

Maybe someone else would like to try the above with a more advanced game (higher tech, more colonies, etc), or even try a star base with construction yards and mfg plants.

< Message edited by Mortimer14 -- 7/30/2014 4:04:50 AM >

(in reply to Mortimer14)

Post #: 17

RE: Which is faster space port building, planet or cons... - 7/30/2014 3:26:49 AM

feelotraveller

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If you run a few tests and observe closely you will find that the constructor needs to load supplies from a spaceport. It would have gone off to build the initial gas mine with no supplies whatsoever on board.

The initial post was clearly about a subsequent colony (i.e. your start colony never has only 30m or 60m pop, nor will you have mid game tech with a prewarp start...).

(in reply to Mortimer14)

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RE: Which is faster space port building, planet or cons... - 7/30/2014 3:30:15 AM

Vardis

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Something's wrong with constructors where they get stuck when building stuff on occasion when there's no good reason for it. I don't think the problem you ran into can be attributed to not having a starport, as I've had that problem mid-game on occasion as well.

There's really *no* reason for these constructors to get stuck and then require you to cancel construction and tell it to repair the station. I'm hoping that'll get addressed soon in a future patch.

(in reply to Mortimer14)

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RE: Which is faster space port building, planet or cons... - 7/30/2014 3:38:06 AM

feelotraveller

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Vardis in all likelihood (=all cases I have seen) a constructor which gets stuck is missing one or more resources needed for construction. The cause has been that the spaceport the constructor loads the resources from to build the base is lacking in that resource. Canceling the construction and ordering a repair is the best thing to do, but freighters will 'eventually' bring the missing resources.

(in reply to Vardis)

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RE: Which is faster space port building, planet or cons... - 7/30/2014 4:42:20 AM

Vardis

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Joined: 6/20/2014
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I've seen a constructor get stuck because it was a few units short on helium, but it had enough helium to put the extra 25 or 50 or whatever in the cargo hold of the station for future upgrades. But you're right. Most cases are when the constructor didn't bring enough with it to finish the job, because it went to a spot that didn't have a stockpile of whatever was needed (usually a new space port), rather than picking up stuff from my nearby well stocked home world.

(in reply to feelotraveller)

Post #: 21