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A graphic representation of game scale... - 8/2/2014 5:44:21 PM   
jack54


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Status: offline 		I scaled down a couple of platoons of Abrams to fit into one of The Plodder's hexes approximately actual size.

It is mind boggling to me and correct me if I'm wrong but these units can engage 8 hexes away

the 2x zoom gives an idea of the scale if and when FC goes to a 250m Hex scale.






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RE: A graphic representation of game scale... - 8/2/2014 9:30:46 PM   
CapnDarwin


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Status: offline 		M1A1 with the 120mm can, in certain conditions, hit at 5km or 10 hexes.

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RE: A graphic representation of game scale... - 8/2/2014 10:31:02 PM   
Mad Russian


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Status: offline 		Yeah, if the gunner won the $300,000,000 lottery that day he could. Otherwise there is no way.

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RE: A graphic representation of game scale... - 8/3/2014 12:12:03 AM   
wodin


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Status: offline 		Massive difference between max distance of a weapon and max effective fire distance. Some games trip up on his esp with abstract terrain. Giving the weapons the max distance usually doesn't turn otu realistic combat results. I always think max effective fire distance should be the max distance of weapons in wargames with abstract terrain.

< Message edited by wodin -- 8/3/2014 1:13:30 AM >

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RE: A graphic representation of game scale... - 8/3/2014 12:31:32 AM   
Mad Russian


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Status: offline 		"Challenger 1 achieved the longest confirmed kill of Gulf War 1, destroying an Iraqi tank with a DU round over a distance of 5,100 metres (over 3 miles)—the longest tank-on-tank killing shot ever."

5km kill, a world's record shot. Not a common place occurrence.

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RE: A graphic representation of game scale... - 8/4/2014 3:36:49 AM   
hazmaxed

 

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Status: offline 		The laser range finder on the M1 and M1A1 would enter a ballistic solution into the system for any target lased from 200 meters to 4000 meters (main gun) or 25 meters to 4000 meters (coaxial machine gun-although tracer burn-out is 900 meters, so engaging anything past that range is problematic). It would tell you the range to the target if it was 4010 to 8000 meters, but would not enter a ballistic solution in the system. I crewed M1s and M1A1s from 1982 to 1995, so I don't know if different laser range finders were used after this time period.

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RE: A graphic representation of game scale... - 8/4/2014 8:34:35 AM   
kemmo

 

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RE: A graphic representation of game scale... - 8/4/2014 11:18:53 AM   
CapnDarwin


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Status: offline 		Most of the action for tanks will center in the one to three km range where you blend effective gun range, crew skill, fire control, and environmental effects. Shot are possible beyond the three km window, but they get rare as the range goes out. In the game, the AI will only take a long range shot in very rare circumstances. As conditions change, so does the potential for a long shot to happen.

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RE: A graphic representation of game scale... - 8/4/2014 4:10:29 PM   
IronMikeGolf

 

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Status: offline 		For US equipment and forces, here's some info to aid in understanding.

Maximum Effective Range: This is determined by one of two things. The first is a 0.5 Ph (i.e. 50% Probability of Hit). The second is tracer burnout range.

For some systems, the max effective range is also the max range. Things like wire guided ATGMs (only so much wire and when it runs out, the missile crashes into the ground) and 25mm HE (it will self destruct due to spin decay around 3000 meters) come to mind.

With some systems, you can sometimes cheat that a little, meaning have a greater than 50% Ph beyond tracer burnout. So, if you can see the rounds kicking up dirt with a machinegun or 25mm ADFSDS-T/APDS-T, then you can be effective beyond max effective range. The M60 MG manual (and orther tactical manuals) acknowledge that by stating max effective range being 600 m for point targets (man sized), 900 m for area targets, or as far as the gunner can effectively engage.

And I say system instead of weapon for a reason. Take the M2 HB machine gun. Its max effective range is 1800 m. That's a point target (vehicle size). The reality is it depends on how its mounted. You won't get that from your average M113 TC. You will get the from your average gunner when the gun is mounted on a tripod with Traversing and Elevation mechanism.

From what I've seen, the devs here have done a good job of modeling all this.

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RE: A graphic representation of game scale... - 8/4/2014 4:28:25 PM   
hazmaxed

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Iron Mike Golf

And I say system instead of weapon for a reason. Take the M2 HB machine gun. Its max effective range is 1800 m. That's a point target (vehicle size). The reality is it depends on how its mounted. You won't get that from your average M113 TC. You will get the from your average gunner when the gun is mounted on a tripod with Traversing and Elevation mechanism.


You can get that degree of accuracy with an M2 HB MG from the CWS (commander's weapon station) and 3X sight on the M1/M1A1 as well. Not moving, of course. No stabilization for the CWS.

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RE: A graphic representation of game scale... - 8/4/2014 4:32:06 PM   
IronMikeGolf

 

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Status: offline 		Right you are, hazmaxed. Sorry I left that one out.

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RE: A graphic representation of game scale... - 8/4/2014 5:34:50 PM   
Mad Russian


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Status: offline 		The biggest issue, for effective range, since the advent of the rifle has been what the shooter could see. Most weapons systems can far outperform their operators ability to see and hit a target.

Good Hunting.

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RE: A graphic representation of game scale... - 8/4/2014 6:16:18 PM   
IronMikeGolf

 

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Status: offline 		MR, Desert Storm showed us that we have a goodly number of systems where the gunner can find and kill beyond the range where he can identify what he's shooting at.

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RE: A graphic representation of game scale... - 8/4/2014 7:33:53 PM   
Mad Russian


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Status: offline 		One of the big surprises, out of many, in the 1973 Arab/Israeli War was that the longer ranges on US equipment was not decisive.

Good Hunting.

MR

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Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

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