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RE: NFC East Showdown: Cribtop (J) vs nygiants59 (A) -... - 8/13/2014 1:19:58 AM   
Cribtop


Posts: 3890
Joined: 8/10/2008
From: Lone Star Nation
Status: offline 		Any help on the questions posed above?

On another note, after an exhaustive review I have concluded that Japanese night fighters fall into one of two classes:

1) Night fighters that arrive too late to be of any practical value.

2) Sh#tty night fighters.

Any thoughts on this dilemma? Ideally I'd have a plane with decent speed, multiple cannons (but not the inaccurate 37mm and its ilk) and it would arrive around July '43 in time to defend strat bombing. I can probably wait past that date a bit, but not too long. What's the best plane among the not so good options?

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Post #: 91
RE: NFC East Showdown: Cribtop (J) vs nygiants59 (A) -... - 8/13/2014 1:48:02 AM   
Mike McCreery


Posts: 4232
Joined: 6/29/2013
Status: offline 		I played the Japanese once... Just once... Lasted a whole 21 days!!!

So, although I would love to be of some assistance I fear any advice I give you would likely be more detrimental than helpful.

So, there is that...

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Post #: 92
RE: NFC East Showdown: Cribtop (J) vs nygiants59 (A) -... - 8/13/2014 2:01:33 AM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		BOTH axis of advance...


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Reluctant Admiral Mod:
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Post #: 93
RE: NFC East Showdown: Cribtop (J) vs nygiants59 (A) -... - 8/13/2014 2:14:11 AM   
Cribtop


Posts: 3890
Joined: 8/10/2008
From: Lone Star Nation
Status: offline 		No worries, Wargmr. The economy is complex all right.

Can always count on John to be aggressive! There is an argument for his position though. Realistically, the Allies can get crappy Dutch planes, the Banshees (scary but not numerous), Hermes and the two CVLs that start in SOPAC in this mod into action quickly in the DEI. The forces allotted should be able to handle that, especially if KB3 is assigned to the eastern DEI where they are more likely to show up. Hmm.

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Post #: 94
RE: NFC East Showdown: Cribtop (J) vs nygiants59 (A) -... - 8/13/2014 3:07:27 AM   
Capt. Harlock


Posts: 5358
Joined: 9/15/2001
From: Los Angeles
Status: offline 		Congrats on the new signature graphic. (The Kongos were more useful than the Yamato off Samar, weren't they...)

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Civil war? What does that mean? Is there any foreign war? Isn't every war fought between men, between brothers?

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Post #: 95
RE: NFC East Showdown: Cribtop (J) vs nygiants59 (A) -... - 8/13/2014 3:18:28 AM   
Cribtop


Posts: 3890
Joined: 8/10/2008
From: Lone Star Nation
Status: offline 		Thanks! Obvert made it and deserves the credit.

And yes, I really do like the Kongos. Cool name, great looking, effective in game and effective IRL.

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Post #: 96
RE: NFC East Showdown: Cribtop (J) vs nygiants59 (A) -... - 8/13/2014 8:45:05 AM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cribtop

I know I need to crank Vehicle production a bit. We start at around 115. I vaguely recall that 200 was a good number - is that right?

How much do you guys increase the smaller shipyards in total?


For vehicles I'm not sure. Do you have extra units in this mod? Is it front or back heavy in terms of continued OOB throughout the war? You might be fine with just leaving it as is and never turning them off for the duration.

Because I don't make a lot of the ships in the queue I don't increase shipyards. I know this mod is different though, and maybe there are extra ships you really want to make that would require an increase. I usually don't make Musashi, which keeps the Naval shipyards in the black and also able to accelerate some CVs. You may not need to accelerate though, given what you have in the scenario.

For merchies I've stopped almost all ships other than the tankers, AO, and xAP. Obviously the CVE and LSD would be necessities, but the gazillion xAK and xAKL seem superfluous.

quote:


For aircraft R&D, assuming I want 7X30 on my fighters (Zero, Tojo, Frank, George, Sam), a little on Helen and Peggy (maybe 3X30 each), and a night fighter (3X30?), which factories do you re-purpose in order to be most efficient? Some planes are useless but a few I wouldn't mind continuing the at start research effort. Obviously I've got a lot of factories to convert. Which ones are best for conversion and increase?

Also on R&D, what is the "correct" setting for upgrade/repair/production? Is it no/yes/no?


For my past two games as Japan I've gone 5 x 30 A6M, 3 x 30 Tojo, 3 x 30 + 1 x 55 Frank Ki-84a, 2 x 30 Frank Ki-84b, 4 x 30 George, 3 x 30 Sam. As well as 2 x 30 Jack. 3 x 30 Tony > Ki-100 (but I don't chose to make any Ki-61 now). 3 x 30 Ki-83. Also 2 x 30 Ki-43 at least to get Oscars to a letter version.

For bombers 3 x 30 Helen seems fine. I do 3 x 30 Peggy (T), 1 x 30 Peggy. 2 x 30 Frances.

For NF I'd plan to build ALL of them you can use. The Ki-45 Id, the Ki-46 III KAI Dinah, the J1S1 Irving and the A6M5-S. I also built the Peggy NF which wasn't too bad. The Denko and Randy Ic are by far the best options, but can you move them far enough ahead to be useful? You'll need at least 2 x 30 for the Randy to get to a useful date, maybe more for the Denko (unless these come earlier in this mod).

For a useful kami plane you can research the Ki-115. Also the Myoko is a Val upgrade and carries an 800kg bomb, so you could keep Val research going and then upgrade to this for the late war at little cost.

no/yes/no is what is suggested to keep them as R n D when they're fully researched, but you still have to monitor to make sure they don't upgrade. I just make sure and check on the turnover of the month and change them if the plane is due the next month.

< Message edited by obvert -- 8/13/2014 9:46:08 AM >

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Post #: 97
RE: NFC East Showdown: Cribtop (J) vs nygiants59 (A) -... - 8/13/2014 8:52:08 AM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cribtop

Any help on the questions posed above?

On another note, after an exhaustive review I have concluded that Japanese night fighters fall into one of two classes:

1) Night fighters that arrive too late to be of any practical value.

2) Sh#tty night fighters.

Any thoughts on this dilemma? Ideally I'd have a plane with decent speed, multiple cannons (but not the inaccurate 37mm and its ilk) and it would arrive around July '43 in time to defend strat bombing. I can probably wait past that date a bit, but not too long. What's the best plane among the not so good options?


The J1N1-SA is not too bad. It was seemingly more accurate and durable than the other options.

The Dinah III KAI died in droves, and yet protected bases well. The A6M5-S did surprisingly well (climb rate) but is fragile. The
quote:

Peggy NF
EDIT: Frances NF was a surprise. Durable, which counts for an NF, and pretty fast.

It's really more about numbers, so plan to make a lot and access ALL units that can upgrade to NF. There are some weird ones, like the recon groups that upgrade, the FP group that upgrades at one point.

The Nick Id is one I hadn't planned on using, but all of the FB groups will upgrade to it, so that gives you and extra 150 - 200 NF if you build it. Well worth it, but probably a mediocre performer. Still, it's more about how many you can get in the air.

< Message edited by obvert -- 8/13/2014 3:51:10 PM >

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Post #: 98
RE: NFC East Showdown: Cribtop (J) vs nygiants59 (A) -... - 8/13/2014 10:25:44 AM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		What Erik said.

If you followed my AAR in my game against him you know the insane losses I took over the HI. Numbers will be your best friend...I think I lost quite close to 1 B29 for each NF when flying on Extended range from the Marianas. And that was using some insane pilots (usually +90 EXP). It got a little bit better once I got into normal range. But not by much and by then since most the 90 EXP pilots were gone.


(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 99
RE: NFC East Showdown: Cribtop (J) vs nygiants59 (A) -... - 8/13/2014 11:50:18 AM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		Obvert is the expert here with night fighters.

There is 21 squadrons that can become night fighters, and some get removed...not sure with your mod.

You need the Dinah night fighter because there is one very large group that can upgrade to it. The Nick KAId simply because there are so many IJA groups that upgrade to it and it is the first IJA night fighter.

Randy looks really good, but the radar comes so late that I am questionable about sinking supplies into getting the fighter early.

So, IJA night fighters are more a disruptive force. IJN kills.

Of the 2nd generation night fighters Myrt is really good, much better than it looks on paper. So is Frances...which I think is the IJN nf to focus on.



(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 100
RE: NFC East Showdown: Cribtop (J) vs nygiants59 (A) -... - 8/13/2014 1:59:06 PM   
Cribtop


Posts: 3890
Joined: 8/10/2008
From: Lone Star Nation
Status: offline 		Great info gents. FYI, the mod augments the IJN and its associated ground and air forces mostly. To my knowledge there aren't a lot more troops than in Scen 1 from an IJA perspective. That said, in Scen 1 I found I had to boost vehicles a bit.

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Post #: 101
RE: NFC East Showdown: Cribtop (J) vs nygiants59 (A) -... - 8/13/2014 2:45:50 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		The only extra ground units in this Mod are IJN.

1. The Japanese consolidate all their SNLF units from Battalion Lvl and create Assault Brigades. They can still be broken down into 1/3 size. The Editor made me use the Division Title--totally misleading--but they are actually Brigades. Good Strength (about 200) but very brittle. No actual new strength there just consolidation of existing units.

2. Nearly all of the Naval Guard units are pulled from the game and a hybrid Atoll Defense unit is created with some CD and about 60-70 AV for defense. Only some added CD there.

3. Nine heavy AA Bn (18 88mm) are added to the IJN for a bit more serious AA power.

4. Three CD units are added to the Kuriles.

5. The 9th Air Fleet starts in Kyushu at cadre strength (20-30% strength): 9th Air Fleet HQ, 1st-2nd-3rd Air Flotilla, and 3 large Base Forces.

That is about it for ground changes/additions within RA and BTS.


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Member: Treaty, Reluctant Admiral and Between the Storms Mod Team.

Reluctant Admiral Mod:
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Post #: 102
RE: NFC East Showdown: Cribtop (J) vs nygiants59 (A) -... - 8/13/2014 2:46:41 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		Watch out for those DAMNED A-24. They will make you pay on any non-CAP Invasion Force you have.


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Member: Treaty, Reluctant Admiral and Between the Storms Mod Team.

Reluctant Admiral Mod:
https://sites.google.com/site/reluctantadmiral/

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Post #: 103
RE: NFC East Showdown: Cribtop (J) vs nygiants59 (A) -... - 8/13/2014 2:53:25 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Obvert is the expert here with night fighters.

There is 21 squadrons that can become night fighters, and some get removed...not sure with your mod.

You need the Dinah night fighter because there is one very large group that can upgrade to it. The Nick KAId simply because there are so many IJA groups that upgrade to it and it is the first IJA night fighter.

Randy looks really good, but the radar comes so late that I am questionable about sinking supplies into getting the fighter early.

So, IJA night fighters are more a disruptive force. IJN kills.

Of the 2nd generation night fighters Myrt is really good, much better than it looks on paper. So is Frances...which I think is the IJN nf to focus on.


I only used a few Myrts, but they did look okay. Very fast.

Thanks for adding the Frances, I accidentally wrote Peggy above at first when meaning this plane. Definitely more kill ability with IJN NF until the Randy.


_____________________________

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Post #: 104
RE: NFC East Showdown: Cribtop (J) vs nygiants59 (A) -... - 8/13/2014 2:57:58 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cribtop

Great info gents. FYI, the mod augments the IJN and its associated ground and air forces mostly. To my knowledge there aren't a lot more troops than in Scen 1 from an IJA perspective. That said, in Scen 1 I found I had to boost vehicles a bit.


There is a period in 42 where you need a lot for incoming tank units, then a long break where for several years, unless you face some trying combat situations, the vehicle pools aren't depleted much, and just build up. Without trying very hard I was sudden'y up to 60k+ vehicles at 6/43 in my current Japanese game.

Then in 44 you start getting a lot of new divisions in China, the HI and Manchuria which need vehicles, plus some new tank units. That's when the big dip occurred, as well as in buying back and rebuilding some units.

I just plan to keep it slow and steady, never turning them off (as Pax Mondo suggested to me very early on in my IJ days!) and hopefully have a surplus late.

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

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Post #: 105
RE: NFC East Showdown: Cribtop (J) vs nygiants59 (A) -... - 8/13/2014 4:00:06 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert
I only used a few Myrts, but they did look okay. Very fast.

Thanks for adding the Frances, I accidentally wrote Peggy above at first when meaning this plane. Definitely more kill ability with IJN NF until the Randy.



I am not so sure about the Peggy, very Nick like with less guns...but a big one!

The myrt does so well in downfall vs the ai....but I am not sure how well it would do in pbem. AI downfall 4e bombers start off with poor morale, and fly way too much into the teeth of Japan's defenses.

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Post #: 106
RE: NFC East Showdown: Cribtop (J) vs nygiants59 (A) -... - 8/14/2014 4:45:36 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		Let's get this show on the road! The sooner the two of you get to playing, the SOONER we can start our game where I make you cry---NO BEG--for mercy from the Japanese Empire!



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Post #: 107
RE: NFC East Showdown: Cribtop (J) vs nygiants59 (A) -... - 8/14/2014 4:49:17 PM   
Cribtop


Posts: 3890
Joined: 8/10/2008
From: Lone Star Nation
Status: offline 		Progress on Turn 1 is accelerating. Michael is busy until Saturday and my goal is to get him the turn as close to Saturday morning as I can.

Economy is complete.

R&D is complete.

I need to move training groups to their posts, order the "Japanese Thundering Herd" to Tokyo to be in a position to set up local resource convoys, and give the operational orders themselves, which oddly enough may be the easiest part.

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Post #: 108
RE: NFC East Showdown: Cribtop (J) vs nygiants59 (A) -... - 8/14/2014 4:56:55 PM   
Mike McCreery


Posts: 4232
Joined: 6/29/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cribtop

Progress on Turn 1 is accelerating. Michael is busy until Saturday and my goal is to get him the turn as close to Saturday morning as I can.

Economy is complete.

R&D is complete.

I need to move training groups to their posts, order the "Japanese Thundering Herd" to Tokyo to be in a position to set up local resource convoys, and give the operational orders themselves, which oddly enough may be the easiest part.


One of the things that rapidly ended my Japanese campaign was that I had no idea what a mess the Japanese army and airforce are in at the beginning of the war.


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Post #: 109
RE: NFC East Showdown: Cribtop (J) vs nygiants59 (A) -... - 8/14/2014 5:05:17 PM   
Cribtop


Posts: 3890
Joined: 8/10/2008
From: Lone Star Nation
Status: offline 		One question - I want to shut off all xAKLs. Isn't there a setting that basically orders the ship to complete the planning process (which is free) but not begin production? What is that setting?

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Post #: 110
RE: NFC East Showdown: Cribtop (J) vs nygiants59 (A) -... - 8/15/2014 4:10:00 AM   
Cribtop


Posts: 3890
Joined: 8/10/2008
From: Lone Star Nation
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Wargmr


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cribtop

Progress on Turn 1 is accelerating. Michael is busy until Saturday and my goal is to get him the turn as close to Saturday morning as I can.

Economy is complete.

R&D is complete.

I need to move training groups to their posts, order the "Japanese Thundering Herd" to Tokyo to be in a position to set up local resource convoys, and give the operational orders themselves, which oddly enough may be the easiest part.


One of the things that rapidly ended my Japanese campaign was that I had no idea what a mess the Japanese army and airforce are in at the beginning of the war.



True that. I would pay for this game a second time if Matrix could mod up a "set up phase" a la a board game. It is very disconcerting to know you are starting up a surprise attack war that you need to win quickly and very little is really where you would have put it.

As I said, that is somewhat mitigated in this mod as John's setup of the Navy and IJNAF makes good sense compared to historical.

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Post #: 111
RE: NFC East Showdown: Cribtop (J) vs nygiants59 (A) -... - 8/15/2014 6:11:23 AM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		Darned right on that point. I HATE how things are in a historical set-up Dec 7th Open. Makes little-to-no sense. I left the original set-up for Treaty Mod, start straitening it in RA, and REALLY work to have it make better sense in BTS.


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Post #: 112
RE: NFC East Showdown: Cribtop (J) vs nygiants59 (A) -... - 8/15/2014 12:21:44 PM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cribtop

One question - I want to shut off all xAKLs. Isn't there a setting that basically orders the ship to complete the planning process (which is free) but not begin production? What is that setting?

Stopped.

Hlalt will prevent any progress, Stop will allow progress until it start to cost you. I generally STOP all of my ship building to start. Then I go back and selectively switch to NORMAL/ACCELERATE those ships I want to build. Like Obvert, I don't build very many in my games ... I am not expert on the OOB's of RA though.

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Pax

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Post #: 113
RE: NFC East Showdown: Cribtop (J) vs nygiants59 (A) -... - 8/15/2014 1:57:12 PM   
Cribtop


Posts: 3890
Joined: 8/10/2008
From: Lone Star Nation
Status: offline 		Thanks, Pax. That's the ticket.

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Post #: 114
RE: NFC East Showdown: Cribtop (J) vs nygiants59 (A) -... - 8/16/2014 4:12:51 AM   
Cribtop


Posts: 3890
Joined: 8/10/2008
From: Lone Star Nation
Status: offline 		A few comments:

1) After completing a 60 page research paper at work today, I am rather partial to good beer.

2) I have completed all turn elements save final operational orders for units. That sounds lame, but as per above, the operational stuff is the easiest. Logistics is the hard part. I fear for my opponent's air force after arranging this scary R&D program, for example.

3) Tomorrow marks the beginning of the English Premier League season. Come on, you Gunners! Are-se-nal! Are-se-nal!

4) I have developed an "Evil Plan." It is designed to play off Michael's known tendencies. It involves his ships sinking. A lot. Unless he runs away like a little girl. This sounds like Bravado, I suppose, but it's actually real.

_____________________________


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Post #: 115
RE: NFC East Showdown: Cribtop (J) vs nygiants59 (A) -... - 8/16/2014 5:37:59 AM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cribtop
A few comments:
1) After completing a 60 page research paper at work today, I am rather partial to good beer.




Can´t wait for PL to get started. Although I live in Sweden I´m a fanatical Liverpool fan!

(in reply to Cribtop)
Post #: 116
RE: NFC East Showdown: Cribtop (J) vs nygiants59 (A) -... - 8/16/2014 2:04:45 PM   
Cribtop


Posts: 3890
Joined: 8/10/2008
From: Lone Star Nation
Status: offline 		Liverpool are fascinating this year. Door #1 = Spurs from last year. Sell a superstar, buy a bunch of stuff and watch it not work. Door #2 = Brendan Rodgers pulls it all together and they are a very good and totally different team than last year. IMHO Door #2 is slightly more likely, but I don't think anyone really knows what the Reds will do this year.

PS - I checked the pre-conditions for my evil plan this morning and I'm not sure it will work after all. Maybe.

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Post #: 117
RE: NFC East Showdown: Cribtop (J) vs nygiants59 (A) -... - 8/17/2014 3:00:29 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		Email sent.


_____________________________



Member: Treaty, Reluctant Admiral and Between the Storms Mod Team.

Reluctant Admiral Mod:
https://sites.google.com/site/reluctantadmiral/

(in reply to Cribtop)
Post #: 118
RE: NFC East Showdown: Cribtop (J) vs nygiants59 (A) -... - 8/17/2014 4:43:16 PM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cribtop

Liverpool are fascinating this year. Door #1 = Spurs from last year. Sell a superstar, buy a bunch of stuff and watch it not work. Door #2 = Brendan Rodgers pulls it all together and they are a very good and totally different team than last year. IMHO Door #2 is slightly more likely, but I don't think anyone really knows what the Reds will do this year.

PS - I checked the pre-conditions for my evil plan this morning and I'm not sure it will work after all. Maybe.


Yeah, it will be very interesting to watch. While off to a good start I´m not convinced they are top of the table material! As you say I think they can end up pretty much anywhere!

(in reply to Cribtop)
Post #: 119
RE: NFC East Showdown: Cribtop (J) vs nygiants59 (A) -... - 8/19/2014 12:25:05 AM   
pontiouspilot


Posts: 1127
Joined: 7/27/2012
Status: offline 		Too damm much talking….let's start shooting!! It all sounds fascinating. I will follow with great interest.

Thanks for taking the trouble to AAR.

(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 120
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