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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> After Action Reports >> RE: Burma Bungle!

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 8/18/2014 3:08:18 PM

koniu

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From: Konin, Poland, European Union
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Miller

Personally rather than the Lilly I would train up pilots in LowNav skill and use the Oscar or Nick for low level attacks as they carry a heavier load and are more likely to survive in the process if enemy CAP shows up.

I have both low nav Oscar and Nicks, but they cannot pull off night time attacks.

Don`t bother with night naval attack against Fletcher. Against big or slow ships (BB, CA, AK, AP) etc yes, fletcher no. They are hard to hit during day, in night it is almost impassible. My experience show that best weapon against Fletcher is FB of Fighter on Low Naval attack or DB on dive attack. All kinds of level bombing have minimal effect.
Dont waste time also on torpedo attacks against them

One is sure You will lost many pilots only to get trough CAP. If few bombers survive they still have to face Fletcher's flak fire, and even in stock flak is good enough to kill or disturb bombers aim enough.

For me best result with low naval i get with Ki-45. Remember only to not use drop tanks because they replacing bombs.

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Post #: 1681

RE: Burma Bungle! - 8/18/2014 4:22:46 PM

Lowpe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: koniu

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Miller

Personally rather than the Lilly I would train up pilots in LowNav skill and use the Oscar or Nick for low level attacks as they carry a heavier load and are more likely to survive in the process if enemy CAP shows up.

I have both low nav Oscar and Nicks, but they cannot pull off night time attacks.

Don`t bother with night naval attack against Fletcher. Against big or slow ships (BB, CA, AK, AP) etc yes, fletcher no. They are hard to hit during day, in night it is almost impassible. My experience show that best weapon against Fletcher is FB of Fighter on Low Naval attack or DB on dive attack. All kinds of level bombing have minimal effect.
Dont waste time also on torpedo attacks against them

One is sure You will lost many pilots only to get trough CAP. If few bombers survive they still have to face Fletcher's flak fire, and even in stock flak is good enough to kill or disturb bombers aim enough.

For me best result with low naval i get with Ki-45. Remember only to not use drop tanks because they replacing bombs.

Thanks!

I do have Ki45 in the Marshalls, but the Fletchers move in and out fast enough to avoid daytime attacks.

I never have had any luck with night bombing runs. But I am willing to try them as long as the planes on the runways aren't at risk.

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Post #: 1682

RE: Burma Bungle! - 8/18/2014 11:59:21 PM

Lowpe

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I have mentioned before that I was a toying around with Downfall vs. the AI to try and get a handle for the destruction that will be 1945, and I just thought I would share with you guys that mind-messing and I have started a pbem downfall game, strictly backburner.

I am the Allies. Very depressing.

Anyhow, we are 10 days in and a few lessons I have learned shouldn't really surprise anyone:

1. The Allies have a lot of big nasty units.

2. P47s are beasts. Especially versus older fighters. You can actually get attached to your pilots.

3. The Allies have a lot of big nasty units.

But the application for this AAR is will the Ki202 stand up to the P47? I certainly see how I can use the Ki202 defensively to protect industry and air fields at least when only a fraction of the HI is subject to offensive sweeps. Right now I feel pretty good about my huge investment in the Ki202.

Hat tip to those AFB that can wade thru the Allied order of battle without going insane.

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Post #: 1683

RE: Burma Bungle! - 8/19/2014 7:05:25 AM

JocMeister

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Erik used night attacks a lot in our game. Probably a couple of hundred strikes if not thousands during the game. The times he hit something can be counted on one hand. So I would think its pretty much a waste of time and supply.

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Post #: 1684

RE: Burma Bungle! - 8/19/2014 10:42:32 AM

Lowpe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Erik used night attacks a lot in our game. Probably a couple of hundred strikes if not thousands during the game. The times he hit something can be counted on one hand. So I would think its pretty much a waste of time and supply.

Spidery has done it a lot too, to no effect. In my game, I just ran a squadron against destroyers with 100% moonlight at 3K feet and missed with Helen IIas.

I think you are correct. Maybe with radar the results will be better?

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Post #: 1685

RE: Burma Bungle! - 8/19/2014 11:06:21 AM

Lowpe

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March 20, 1943

Magwe is bombed at Night by 4Es. 100 percent moonlight, nice weather, the KAI Dinah is on duty. Fairly low level bombing. I lost 2 planes on the ground,no damage to field, and Allies lost one B25c. Great work Dinah! I have several 10cm guns on the way (independent AA units) and they might be able to bring down some more allied bombers.

I had a Chutai of Helen's night attack fletchers at 3K, nice weather, and they all miss. I have never seen a successful night attack on Allied ships.

Other than that, one deliberate 6-1 attack in China, and some bombardments both naval and ground pretty boring day. I will take it...gives me a chance to buildup and defend.

Shuttered the last Tojo IIa factory today, put them on R&D for Tojo IIc which should start production in two days.

KB is gathering dust at Guam. Boilers shut down. Fine by me.

Allied naval search is much, much improved. Can't go anywhere without triggering some detection.

Sad, the Japanese Empire is at its zenith - except for China. All downhill from here. In all honesty I never thought I would get this far.

Here is a picture of the Solomons. Two infantry divisions anchor the corners: Port Moresby and Lunga. I don't think the Allies have any interest here...hesitant to build it up more for now.

It is the Marshalls where the Allies can attack with the least risk.

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Post #: 1686

RE: Burma Bungle! - 8/19/2014 11:14:03 AM

Lowpe

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A look at the primary Japanese bombers.

What exactly does the H-6 radar do on the Betty3a?

I realize it is not available until 6/44.

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Post #: 1687

RE: Burma Bungle! - 8/19/2014 3:51:54 PM

Lowpe

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I feel really bad, I am pretty much doing nothing but moving troops and ships and resources. Attacks in China, but that is about it.

I sortied the KB in response to two heavy radio volume traffics at Tabiteuea...the KB packs a little stronger punch with all A6M5c and Judy instead of Vals. I did get a whiff of a possible CV at Tabiteuea, although why is beyond me. I think next month there are a lot of potential carrier upgrades for me...

On the plane front I switched my small Mavis transport factory over to Emily transport as I have enough in the pool to see me thru the transition. In 30 days I repaired 23 Irving nightfighter factories, but I am still 4 short of having one fully repaired. At best I will get this plane in late July, and I was in such a panic to get a night fighter -- but now the Dinah KAI has stood up so well to combating his night bombers I am questioning my investment here for now, but that is really because he has not bombed out all my oil production! Hindsight.

There seem to be a lot less subs hunting for my tankers, and when the do it is in clusters. I may move a lot of the Army bombers to push hard there for the next few months, and simply leave a rapid reaction force of Army bombers to fly into and out of submarine hotspots....in 3 months of active torpedoes the Allies have lost 20+ subs. Over the same time frame I have lost 1. I see more subs in the fleet supporting role now.

I really need to sit down and count off 20 hexes from his forward air bases: Ledo, Rangoon. I believe I have all the oil protected but not all the industry. I at least want AA there I think.

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Post #: 1688

RE: Burma Bungle! - 8/19/2014 7:25:07 PM

Spidery

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quote:

I really need to sit down and count off 20 hexes from his forward air bases: Ledo, Rangoon

The Brits have some Liberator II that can hit 24 hexes at extended range. That puts Canton and Hong Kong just in range from Ledo.

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Post #: 1689

RE: Burma Bungle! - 8/19/2014 8:19:48 PM

Lowpe

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You are right. I have shot down quite a few over Burma, so they aren't all that plentiful for him right now.

Checking I have knocked down 30 out of a total of 50 which may not all be in play yet.

What is a good way to handle such long range bomber protection? I will have to put a splinter on night defense, and something else on day.

I have some Tonies, Nicks, A6M5c that I can use for daytime protection. I will need some more AA Rgt with good radar...

Ledo is built up, I will cycle some recon on it and maybe a night time raid there once dl gets up.

Many thanks.

Even longer legged Allied nastiness, although I don't know if he would use them to bomb cities. No losses on these guys:

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< Message edited by Lowpe -- 8/19/2014 10:36:14 PM >

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Post #: 1690

RE: Burma Bungle! - 8/20/2014 2:27:24 AM

Lowpe

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Here is a question: Has anyone used night fighters to prosecute strafing attacks on ships at night?

Does the game engine handle the guns correctly? My guess is yes.

So what planes would be good for night naval strafing attacks: Denko would be best, but lacks armor and comes late. Frances has the biggest bomb payload, but her guns are in the wrong position. Irving has bombs, but guns are out of position and no armor. Peggy has a big gun, but no bombs. Zero has bombs and some guns no armor. Nick and Dinah just some cannons.

If there was a lull in night bombing, there might be a use for a surprise night attack at some point...

Also, the Betty 3a might be a good choice for a strafing attack. Machine guns and a fair number of bombs (not using torpedoes) and armor. Would radar help with getting hits?

Would the exploding bombs damage the planes that dropped them? Would flak losses simply be too great?

I think I will try a squadron of Betties and Helens on strafing attacks at night to see what might happen.

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Post #: 1691

RE: Burma Bungle! - 8/20/2014 11:04:01 AM

Lowpe

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March 21, 1943

No night attacks.

Very few bombing attacks, only by Japan in China.

Quiet.

At Chikiang, where I own the base, I have been fighting 4 dug in Chinese Corp and 1 HQ. Despite 4-1, 6-1, 6-1, 8-1 odds, no supply, the Chinese refuse to retreat and losses are pretty equal with lots of disabled and about 5 squads destroyed a battle.

Perhaps the stubborn defense is because they are surrounded: they can only retreat one hex...and are isolated.

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Post #: 1692

RE: Burma Bungle! - 8/20/2014 6:56:19 PM

Lowpe

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General notes:

170 Allied fighters at Prome. Nothing at Akyab, but there are 9 ships in port, and if my recon is to be believed only a few guns. Therefore I am hitting Akyab's port with 150 bombers during the daytime....I think most of his fighters are forward and at Ledo/Chittacong.

Tojo IIc starts production. Next fighter to look forward to are Oscar 4, George, Ki-100I. Then Frank, and finally Sam J and Ki202. Stopped production of first Tony version with the startup of TojoIIc, will let it repair and move them to the Ki100I. Engine factory converted over to research...

Allies getting consistent search on Truk, I have to figure out from where? My original thoughts proved incorrect.

I have a deliberate attack in the central plains of China, plus large amounts of bombing. I have some tanks moving across a bridge and it shouldn't trigger a shock attack, but that always surprises me....

Singers is jammed full of ships getting minor damage fixed from all the bombardment runs...another CA force is out south of Ceylon undetected waiting to pounce on something juicy. I completed the big CM to E conversions...

I may stop the daily updates until the game picks up speed...

< Message edited by Lowpe -- 8/20/2014 8:44:50 PM >

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Post #: 1693

RE: Burma Bungle! - 8/20/2014 8:32:13 PM

Lokasenna

Posts: 9297
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From: Iowan in MD/DC
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

General notes:

170 Allied fighters at Prome. Nothing at Akyab, but there are 9 ships in port, and if my recon is to be believed only a few guns. Therefore I am hitting Akyab's port with 150 bombers during the daytime....I think most of his fighters are forward and at Ledo/Chittacong.

Tojo IIc starts production. Next fighter to look forward to are Oscar 4, George, Ki-100I. Then Frank, and finally Sam J and Ki202. Stopped production of first Tony version with the startup of TojoIIc, will let it repair and move them to the Ki100I. Engine factory converted over to research...

Allies getting consistent search on Truk, I have to figure out from where? My original thoughts proved incorrect.

I have a deliberate attack in the central plains of China, plus large amounts of bombing. I have some tanks moving across a bridge and it shouldn't trigger a shock attack, but that always surprises me....

Singers is jammed full of ships getting minor damage fixed from all the bombardment runs...another CA force is out south of Ceylon undetected waiting to pounce on something juicy. I completed the big CM to E conversions...

I may stop the daily updates until the game picks up speed...

Aw, but I like reading about you staring into the big blue and trying to surmise what he's up to, out of range of your planes...

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Post #: 1694

RE: Burma Bungle! - 8/20/2014 9:43:53 PM

Lowpe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna
Aw, but I like reading about you staring into the big blue and trying to surmise what he's up to, out of range of your planes...

I know what he is up to -- he is coming for me! You are not paranoid if you are correct!

I know the next revolting development coming are Corsairs at Prome and the Marshalls. His new heavy bombers have already shown up, and soon the Essex will be steaming against me.

But that is ok because I am converting a few float plane carriers into real juggernauts of destruction.

On a lark, I am putting a Jake squadron together for low level night bombing of ships... they can shoot flares out of the cockpit and rain hand grenades down on cargo ships.

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Post #: 1695

RE: Burma Bungle! - 8/20/2014 9:51:15 PM

mind_messing

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna
Aw, but I like reading about you staring into the big blue and trying to surmise what he's up to, out of range of your planes...

I know what he is up to -- he is coming for me! You are not paranoid if you are correct!

I know the next revolting development coming are Corsairs at Prome and the Marshalls. His new heavy bombers have already shown up, and soon the Essex will be steaming against me.

But that is ok because I am converting a few float plane carriers into real juggernauts of destruction.

On a lark, I am putting a Jake squadron together for low level night bombing of ships... they can shoot flares out of the cockpit and rain hand grenades down on cargo ships.

Don't mock the combat effectiveness of Jakes, I've killed off a couple of merchantmen and damaged a few more with their 60kg hand grenades.

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Post #: 1696

RE: Burma Bungle! - 8/20/2014 9:58:40 PM

Lowpe

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If I wanted to mock, I would train up Petes!

< Message edited by Lowpe -- 8/20/2014 11:02:56 PM >

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Post #: 1697

RE: Burma Bungle! - 8/20/2014 10:35:34 PM

Lowpe

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March 22, 1943

What joy!

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Post #: 1698

RE: Burma Bungle! - 8/20/2014 10:41:56 PM

Lowpe

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Meitkila, next to Magwe, gets attacked by massed night bombers. No worries, the Dianh KAI is there, but the final two splinters make accurate runs. Shame.

I think it was my fault, as the bombers came in at 6K, and I had Dinah at 10K. Oops. I have got four units of 20 mm machine cannons on the way...

But with the Corsair sweeps, and the night bombing, a tough day for the Japanese in Burma. Well it could always be worse, because....

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Post #: 1699

RE: Burma Bungle! - 8/20/2014 10:49:02 PM

Lowpe

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While the fighter jockeys where off trashing Japanese fighters, bombers strike an undefended Akyab. Recon was right, flak was light, and the ships in port are savaged.

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Post #: 1700

RE: Burma Bungle! - 8/20/2014 10:57:25 PM

Lowpe

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A little good news in China...

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Post #: 1701

RE: Burma Bungle! - 8/20/2014 11:04:17 PM

Lowpe

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Perth has been quiet for a long time, but fresh activity shows up...

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Post #: 1702

RE: Burma Bungle! - 8/20/2014 11:15:42 PM

Lowpe

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Pretty clever of the Allies to sweep my troops in the jungle, rather than flying into Magwe. Darn Allies are learning!

I will have to shorten my range, and get prepared to be bombed in the jungle at least there is good AA and terrain there.

I lost 70 victory points, got no credit for any cargo ship sunk, so some of those will trickle in I hope.

On the good news front, that really nasty long legged British bomber I posted a while back is bombing airfields at night....much better than heading for Canton or Hong Kong! Allies don't get that many, and if I can catch them that will weaken his long range threat substantially...

Where are my rocket planes? Research harder!

A nasty surprise somewhere:

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Post #: 1703

RE: Burma Bungle! - 8/20/2014 11:17:29 PM

ny59giants

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Chin up!! Corsair ONLY come in at one per day.

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Post #: 1704

RE: Burma Bungle! - 8/20/2014 11:22:47 PM

Lowpe

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I really want to visit Ledo....

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 8/20/2014 11:26:48 PM

Lokasenna

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

Chin up!! Corsair ONLY come in at one per day.

...at first...

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Post #: 1706

RE: Burma Bungle! - 8/20/2014 11:27:28 PM

Lokasenna

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

I really want to visit Ledo....

Nells can get there, can't they? Your Helens can, from most of Burma... put together a strike force! Some of those Corsairs will shift over to Ledo right quick, and then you can just ignore them.

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Post #: 1707

RE: Burma Bungle! - 8/20/2014 11:30:10 PM

Lowpe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

Chin up!! Corsair ONLY come in at one per day.

His sweeps really only accounted for 44 planes and he lost 20. It was the night bombing that hurt...probably a combination of a lot of low level waves, not enough flak, Dinah at wrong altitude. I can fix some of that.

We will see how the Tojo IIc does -- 2 days for the first splinter to get up and flying in Magwe.

My chin is up -- Magwe is still pumping! How cool is that?

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Post #: 1708

RE: Burma Bungle! - 8/21/2014 1:00:18 AM

Lowpe

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Shortened my CAP over Magwe a little, and filled Magwe up to 350 fighter equivalents.

I expect more night bombing this turn in Burma, and most planes are moved to bases that have no detection level or lots of AA and balloons with Dinah KAI fighters on night duty.

The machine cannons are unloading in Indochina...more aviation support also on the way. Need to scrape up more boots on the ground...

But Burma will be an ugly scrum for years now...which is probably a good thing.

Still moving forward in China...70 plus Chinese units in the capitol.

I am setting up the Ledo strike, and others...

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Post #: 1709

RE: Burma Bungle! - 8/21/2014 1:22:27 AM

mind_messing

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

I really want to visit Ledo....

Nells can get there, can't they? Your Helens can, from most of Burma... put together a strike force! Some of those Corsairs will shift over to Ledo right quick, and then you can just ignore them.