RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod

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RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod - 8/18/2014 4:10:35 PM

mensrea

Posts: 233
Joined: 5/23/2014
From: Pittsburgh
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Cap, I will probably be doing the same thing as I did with the weapons. I have the trees laid out on paper. I am debating reworking the guts of the tech tree files though, its a real mess.

Newcrons - I like that. When did the change happen, anyway? Nothing even refers to the way it was before. If you didn't just confirm it I think I would begin to question my sanity.

Swizzle - glad you could help test it. The armor thing is an easy fix. Nothing I can do about the hyperdeny thing other than remove it as the AI seems to always pick the "best" component regardless of size or power requirements. Too bad there isn't a "super" version of most components as that seems to work out well with the weapons.

Necrons will have a chance of moving to the planets that you conquer and once they do then you can begin culling the natives. I can increase their likelihood of moving there but modding limitations dictate that it will never be a perfect arrangement.

No matter how many times I look at that damn tech tree I always miss something. It will be fixed.

The massive research times are intended. The rationale being that anyone can alter the research rate at the start of a game if they want to make things faster. Further, the tech races can actually stand a chance against the warlike ones if they get to the point where their level of tech is way ahead of them. Improvements get pretty significant. The way it is now, or at least will be when all trees are reworked, I would say not to feel like its cheaty to turn up research rates as unless you like week or multi week long games you won't get very far. Also, I recommend just focusing on one line or two lines of research per field. Once I get the trees done I will begin work on AI research pathing and that is what they will be doing.

It's not just you. I have a 3.8 ghz hexacore, 16 gb of RAM and an SSD drive and I have always gotten lag from big fleet battles. I was told my graphics card which has 1 GB of memory might be the limiting factor, and that does seem the case as it stops lagging when I zoom out. I had made some changes recently that I hoped would address these things, like cutting back on incomes, reducing ship maintenance reductions, and basically forcing the AI to build only the biggest ships instead of hoards of little ones. Making ships simply hold more stuff so you don't need so many in the first place. Seems like it may not have been enough, though, and I will have to go further. I was kind of hoping that it was just me and my rinky dink vidja card.

I may actually work on some graphical changes to reduce the strain on rigs. I'm thinking certain projectile graphics could be eliminated as they would be too fast and small to see anyway. Others can be simplified (fewer colors and no transparency) and made smaller. Exhaust on fighters could be removed (every fighter has its own little animated exhaust if it has the pure blue on it). Fighter detail in general could be scaled down.

Japhet - I will be adding Orkish Freebooterz as a pirate only race. Aside from that I have considered adding Orkish clans as well as Eldar factions, which is why I added them as specific race families.

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Post #: 211

RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod - 8/18/2014 5:11:01 PM

Japhet

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I think the Newcron fluff change happened in the fifth edition, around 2011. Not sure why Gamesworkshop changed it, but who knows what goes on in Matt Wards head

By Eldar factions, do you mean a separation into one craftworld faction, one exodite faction and maybe the corsairs or Dark Eldar (both as pirates)?

Also, if the Tyranids don't work out as planned, you could add them as replacement for the space creatures.

(in reply to mensrea)

Post #: 212

RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod - 8/18/2014 7:20:06 PM

Lord Baal

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Ah hem... There are Ork and Eldar pirates? How it's the Imperium tech tree? Could there be divided in at least other factions like SM and Adeptus Mechanicum and forced to be allies by script? It is compatible with the latest version of the game?
I... I... I'm having a total happiness attack here! Just found your mod dude.

really impressive.

< Message edited by Lord Baal -- 8/18/2014 8:22:14 PM >

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Post #: 213

RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod - 8/18/2014 7:26:48 PM

Capshades

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We had a lag issue on a mod I was working on for Star Wars Empire at War, and one of the solutions was to simply double the projectile speed. Does that have a chance of working here?

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Post #: 214

RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod - 8/18/2014 10:42:26 PM

Maponus

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quote:

By Eldar factions, do you mean a separation into one craftworld faction, one exodite faction and maybe the corsairs or Dark Eldar (both as pirates)?

Don't forget Harlequins!

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Post #: 215

RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod - 8/18/2014 11:24:28 PM

swizzlewizzle

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Mensrea, I understand your position on the tech tree, but what I quoted were values from "FAST" tech level. The problem with DW's tech tree is that every tech is exponentially harder to research unless you manually modify it's multiplier... anything past the final "normal" vanilla tech level is nearly impossible to research, even with a max tech race with tons of pop. Please realize that we are talking about 10-1000x more then *the longest to research research in the vanilla game*. I can understand putting perhaps one or two levels above the vanilla levels, but they NEED to have their research cost modified.

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Post #: 216

RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod - 8/19/2014 4:36:22 AM

mensrea

Posts: 233
Joined: 5/23/2014
From: Pittsburgh
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Japhet - Yes, I was thinking Craftworld Eldar and Exodite Eldar, as well as Dark Eldar, but not corsairs, as they don't seem all that much different from the run of the mill pirate outfit. The Tyranids will work out as planned, just be prepared for seeing a lot of cases where the Tyranids are not allowed to use this or that tech because its made mechanically rather than grown.

Baal - Glad you like it. The Imperium will not be split up as the Mechanicum consider the Emperor to be a god (the Omnimessiah) and the Space Marines (Astartes in the mod) are still organized by legions rather than chapters. The separation comes after the events depicted in this mod if you play with the Heresy mode on. I wanted to add them as you said in the scenario at one point but AI is too fickle to rely on as much as the Imperium relied on Mechanicus and Astartes.

Cap - I may yet just double the speed again, but I already have increased it considerably and don't want to remove maneuverability from combat. I will work with the images and economy some more and see where we are from there.

Maponus - I will probably add the Harlequins as a spec ops to some Eldar faction now that you mention it.

Swizzle - You are correct. On the one hand players can make things easier, and on the other they can make them harder too. I will make it so technologies get twice as expensive each time rather than four times. I will also make super weapon/component tech not so expensive, considering you have to research so much to even ever get to it. It actually makes sense even, you already know enough about it from researching all the other techs, so why would it be so hard to just combine them into one component.

Admittedly I took into consideration only one side of that position due to personal preference. I am glad you brought it up or I would have not thought about it much more at the moment.

< Message edited by mensrea -- 8/19/2014 5:37:02 AM >

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Post #: 217

RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod - 8/19/2014 11:27:10 AM

Japhet

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That's good to hear. The Eldar are my favourite race in 40K. I still work on the character role icons for them, so it will take a while until they are finished. Dark Eldar stuff is rare sadly, I've only managed to find two ships plus fighters and some troop sprites. Not much to work with.

In the meantime, here is the Empire pack. It contains some new character portraits, UI icons, troop images and four ship sets: two for the Imperial Navy, one for the Rogue Traders and one for the Space Marines. One of the Navy sets is just the old one, I added it just for completionist sake (and tweaked the cobra class, which is my favourite ship). The other set is based one the old sprites, but the weapon parts have higher quality and some of the smaller ships look better (especially the cobra class). I found them on the starsector forum, if I remeber correctly.

The Rogue Trader shipset is perfect for the private sector of the empire. Sadly, I wan't able to create good looking Adeptus Mechanicus ships as constructors but the trader ships will suffice.

As for the UI, I dind't really know what do do first, which colours I should use, etc. I'm personally unhappy with the diplomacy button. So, I'm open for suggestions.

Also, have you considerd adding the Tau at some point? I know they were not around during the Heresy, but not every game session has to be set in that era and it would allow for great what-if-scenarios. Just asking because I've some nice Tau ship & troop sets waiting to be used

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Post #: 218

RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod - 8/19/2014 9:01:25 PM

mensrea

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From: Pittsburgh
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Japhet, thank you very much. I like these Imperial ships a lot more than the ones we have, so much in fact that I am replacing them all. I did think about using the rogue traders but decided against it because they don't match. I did use some of the alternative ships, stripped them of obvious weapons and made them into the civilian ships. Now, not only do all ships match but they are much better looking in general. We even have new stations. Your UI work is also really good. I especially liked the Necron and am looking forward to checking out the Imperials. The ship names were kind of confusing though, did you mean to leave the translations in?

For the Dark Eldar we could just color shift the Eldar. I'm not sure what you use to edit things but with paint shop pro its very easy so if you don't want to do it I can.

How about a rustic looking scroll for the diplomacy? Or a space marine, as they is usually how the Imperium conducts diplomacy.

I will not be adding the Tau, I kind of am making a stretch to add Necrons and Tyranids, but Tau were definitely in the stone age at this time. I imagine when I'm done with the mod someone will change races around to reflect M41 though, so there is that. Of course, I would be glad to use the Tau ships for one of the other races considering they still use vanilla ships. Perhaps Scythian or Kehletai?

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Post #: 219

RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod - 8/19/2014 9:10:06 PM

Cyrtis

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Such a great mod!

I'm shocked! SHOCKED I tell you! The eldar are diplomatic geniuses! With a little currency to grease those weird alien hands/paws/appendages, they can get their hands on ALL the legacy tech (well, except orky and guella stuff). Is that gamey? And what the heck does "resettle" mean? Cause my eldar are just fine living among huge populations of shapeshifting vampires, et al. Weird...

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Post #: 220

RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod - 8/19/2014 9:26:57 PM

Maponus

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There would still be Squats in this era due to the events taking place pre-Tyranid Wars.

To be honest having everyone everywhere hate the Imperium is a bit annoying. How about having Abhumans and others who were integrated into the Imperium around too, in order to have some races who don't have huge anti-Imperial biases?

< Message edited by Maponus -- 8/19/2014 10:29:13 PM >

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Post #: 221

RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod - 8/19/2014 10:17:58 PM

Japhet

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I'm glad I can be of help. In the past I've seen so many promising 40K mods for various games and none of them were ever completed. It would really break my heart to see another one dying

quote:

The ship names were kind of confusing though, did you mean to leave the translations in?

Dear god, no! I actually found this list in the same place where I found the second Navy ship set and didn't bother to look at it properly. I just thought it could be useful so I packed it in as well, but now that I read it...I would' leave the translation in it. I think the names were made with some fan made autotranslator. My bad, sorry.

quote:

For the Dark Eldar we could just color shift the Eldar. I'm not sure what you use to edit things but with paint shop pro its very easy so if you don't want to do it I can.

I use paint.net. Color shift is an option, but I would regard it as last resort though. Maybe I can edit something together from the existing images. It kind of worked with the Necron ships.

quote:

I will not be adding the Tau, I kind of am making a stretch to add Necrons and Tyranids, but Tau were definitely in the stone age at this time. I imagine when I'm done with the mod someone will change races around to reflect M41 though, so there is that. Of course, I would be glad to use the Tau ships for one of the other races considering they still use vanilla ships. Perhaps Scythian or Kehletai?

Ah, that's a pity. I'll finsh a Tau pack anyway and upload it in the near future, so you and others can use the image as you see fit.

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Post #: 222

RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod - 8/20/2014 1:57:17 AM

mensrea

Posts: 233
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From: Pittsburgh
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Cyrtis - The Eldar were very crafty and manipulative, being so smart and wise and all. They are not loyal though, and would as soon turn on a race they allied after having used them. And yes, I consider tech trading gamey and always play with it disabled. Spying, on the other hand...They should not be fine with living with anyone, or relocating them to some glorified pasture world even. In fact they should be really pissed off that those lowly pleb's have dared to exist in their universe AKA kill them all. I will take a look at their policy settings.

Maponus - The first rule of Warhammer 40k is that we don't talk about the squats. The second rule...etc etc. Funny that you mention that about the Imperials as I just changed the stance of human (except Quietude who are basically Cyborg Imperials) empires towards them. I initially based it on the Imperials general reputation but since this takes place in the Great Crusade timeline no one would even know anything about them. In fact, many aliens may not even necessarily dislike them, they probably just view them as decent slaves or tasty snacks.

Japhet - I won't be dying anytime soon, though after everything on my list is completed and general balancing is addressed I will be taking a break to work on other projects. That's still a good ways off though, as my list is rather long. And yes, throw some spikes and hooks and menacing looking things on an Eldar ship and it is pretty much Dark Eldar. They do have some different weapons though, which I would have to address on my end.

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Post #: 223

RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod - 8/20/2014 1:15:00 PM

Lord Baal

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I sent you a pm, did you got it?

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Post #: 224

RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod - 8/20/2014 3:51:32 PM

Cyrtis

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I think the design for the Orks is superb! But how do I get the higher ship sizes (above 400)?
Space Hulk Reclamation should grant me 2600, right?

Also, just IDK a bug or something: there's two Heavy Gunz components listed in the design screen. They appear identical.

< Message edited by Cyrtis -- 8/20/2014 4:53:21 PM >

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Post #: 225

RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod - 8/20/2014 3:58:20 PM

Cyrtis

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Weird: I just had 50 million necrons migrate to my Ork homeworld, where upon I enslaved them (naturally). There's just so much wrong about that.

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Post #: 226

RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod - 8/20/2014 11:04:00 PM

Japhet

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quote:

Weird: I just had 50 million necrons migrate to my Ork homeworld, where upon I enslaved them (naturally). There's just so much wrong about that.

****ing Newcrons. Under the firm control of the C'tan such things would never happened...

In any case, I finally finished the Eldar pack. Besides unique UIs for different craftworlds (though the Ulthwe one is propably to dark), it contains new troop, ship & character images. The new ships are mostly civilian ships and bases, which I made by tinkering around with the existing ones. And it shows, they're not particulary pleasent to look at, but hey, I think it's better than the vanilla ones. If somebody could find or make better bases, I would appreciate it. I was thinking of a space webway gate, but I couldn't track down a good one. However, I was able do find and make some solid craftworld images that can be used as a replacement of your home world, if you want to play "properly" as Craftworld Eldar.

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RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod - 8/20/2014 11:13:39 PM

Japhet

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And here are the Dark Eldar. Same with the Eldar, new UI (just two and they're are very dark. My advise is to use the blue ones), troops, characters and ships. What I said about the Eldar ships & bases applies to their dark bretheren aswell, except I didn't made any civilian ships. And their bases are paticulary ugly (colourswaped Eldar bases) and hard to see, but the Dark Eldar sneaky anyway so it kinda fits

However, I think their new military ships turned out nice.

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Post #: 228

RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod - 8/21/2014 4:26:05 AM

mensrea

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From: Pittsburgh
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Baal - I responded. Sorry for the wait, my computer had a bit of a problem that thankfully didn't require new hardware to fix. Protip: never hot swap monitors, no matter what anyone says it is not a good idea. I got your message and responded. Thank you.

Cyrtis - As long as you have researched space hulk reclamation you should have the ability to make ships that size at your spaceports. That's weird with the heavy gunz...but it actually gives me an idea and I may take advantage of this anomaly.

That bit about the Necrons behaving as if they are not war machines hell bent on destroying all life is one of the reasons I didn't want to add them (or the Tyranids). Not only is that something I cannot affect modding wise, but its something that has no precedent in the game at all. All races are effectively "people" rather than mindless beasts or killer robots. This means the prospect of something like this happening in the future are zip.

If I didn't want to let people play as the Necrons I would probably restrict them to one planet only, which is possible. If for some reason this breaks immersion for some I will gladly include a simple to use alternative configuration that does just that.

Japhet - Thank you again for the art. I think I will be giving the Eldar tech similar to space hulk reclamation, perhaps something to do with wraithbone as that features heavily into their tech and lore. Either way it will give them access to impossibly large ships. They will never be true world ships of course, but they will be about as potent militarily speaking, if you really want to concentrate that much maintenance on one ship.

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Post #: 229

RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod - 8/21/2014 7:51:55 AM

swizzlewizzle

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Mensrea for the Necrons I think it would be a good idea to jack up the cost on their ships so that there are relitively few of them, but give them either tech or weapon/armor tech advantage to compensate. The 100% ship maint reduction that is in there right now simply leads to ship spam, which isn't very necron like. Instead, high ship maintenance costs would ensure a necron's fleet is very small, but extremely powerful per-ship.

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Post #: 230

RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod - 8/21/2014 11:59:29 AM

Lord Baal

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No, no, no, thank you for the wonderful mod!
I hope you can make good use of the assets.

< Message edited by Lord Baal -- 8/21/2014 1:00:05 PM >

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Post #: 231

RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod - 8/21/2014 1:48:24 PM

mensrea

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From: Pittsburgh
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I thought I had included the fixed necrons in the last update but it's been a long week. Anyway their maintenance reduction was cut in half and necrodermis was substantially improved. I will also be giving them gauss weaponry, death rays or heat rays, not sure yet. I may even have to give them custom damage reduction/repair stuff to properly simulate the regenerative properties of necrodermis. I also removed their massive trade bonus, effectively having the same effect as maintenance reductions. I think they were sufficiently necron-y after that.

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Post #: 232

RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod - 8/21/2014 8:41:52 PM

Japhet

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Just finished the Tau. Even if they're not going to be in this mod

, the ship set should come in handy for other races. I think I will do a chaos pack in the near future.

mensrea, have considered adding unique facilities or wonders for the races? Like a giant Waaagh! Banner for the Orks, a Webway portal or the Black Libary for the Eldar or the Imperial Palace?

Also, do you have any plans about adding new races? I think I could do something for the Demiurg (the squat replacement) and maybe even for the Kroot.

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Post #: 233

RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod - 8/22/2014 1:21:32 AM

mensrea

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From: Pittsburgh
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A Chaos pack would be greatly appreciated. All we have now is those red Imperial ships that are floating around everywhere which do not even come close to the level of quality of the last Imperial ships you sent me or those Necron ships swizzle posted.

Yes, I have considered facilities but I think tech should come first. What I would like to do is add one wonder for every other tech line. The nature of the wonders will correspond to the tech line in some fashion. I contemplated giving each race its own unique wonder to give it more flavor and give players something to save up their money for but we are limited to 100 wonders/facilities and we are already using 46 (though a half dozen or so will probably be reworked).

I have no plans to add new races after the Tyranids. To be honest I have no personal interest in it as I feel the current number of races are sufficient. I like the idea behind the Kroot and know nothing of the Demiurg other than that they are Tau allies. If you or anyone else wants to make addons or whatever I completely endorse it and would gladly post the info in the OP if you don't want to bother with running a thread.

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Post #: 234

RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod - 8/22/2014 10:36:20 AM

Japhet

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Mmh, new ships beside bombers and fighters are problematic. I have four unique ships like "The Scion of Prospero" or "the Terminus Est", but honestly, I think the current chaos ships are fine. But the space port could need a replacement. For now, chaos is using the blackstone fortress image, which would be more appropriate for devastation moons.

Have you ever played the Homeworld series? The Demiurg are exactly like the Bentusi. They're a race of space living engineers, traders and miners and apparently look like a cross between your average dwarf and Darkseid from DC Comics. They also gave the Tau their ion weapon technology, but they're not part of the Tau empire.

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Post #: 235

RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod - 8/22/2014 7:05:59 PM

Lord Baal

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Wait what? The Tau aren't going to be in the mod?

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Post #: 236

RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod - 8/22/2014 8:16:29 PM

Capshades

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I asked this too lol, it's apparently the wrong era for them to be here, they're not space travelers yet.

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Post #: 237

RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod - 8/22/2014 10:52:11 PM

mensrea

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From: Pittsburgh
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Japhet - Oh yes, they are good, but those others were way better. If you do come across any in your grand voyage across the seas of internet please let me know.

And no, the Tau are not in this and really can't be because of this:

"T'au, the Tau home planet, was discovered in 789.M35 by the Adeptus Mechanicus Explorator Fleet ship Land's Vision. Adeptus Mechanicus records indicate that at that time, the Tau species had mastered the use of simple tools and weapons, as well as fire. Before the planet could be cleansed and colonized by the Imperium, however, a violent Warp-storm erupted around the planet. This continued for 6,000 years, making the Tau's homeworld utterly inaccessible.

It was not until the Damocles Crusade (M41) that the Imperium again contacted the Tau. The Imperium found the primitive Tau had advanced considerably. In six thousand years, the Tau had advanced from spears and fire to colonizing planets and Pulse Rifles." source: http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Tau .

I should probably preface that in the opening post as it seems to get asked more than anything else. The mod takes place in the 30th millennium, not the 41st, but it's still set in the 40k universe, lore wise. You can read more about the era here but there are spoilers: http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Great_Crusade . I wanted to cover that era for a lot of reasons, the main one being I always thought it was a shame that it wasn't covered that much by GW. Sorry if this disappoints you guys but if you really want you can always just add them on your own accord. The Kehletai are really pretty much Tau even, all they would need is a name change and image reskinning.

I also want to mention that I have nothing against the Tau like many WH fans. In fact I always liked them the most as they were seemingly the only actual decent race before GW started to twist them into some Orwellian faction.

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Post #: 238

RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod - 8/24/2014 3:16:16 AM

Capshades

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Doesn't matter to me, I'm just excited for the next build. Can you give us an ETA yet? I don't really want to start a new game if you're releasing an update soon...

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Post #: 239

RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod - 8/24/2014 4:07:27 AM

mensrea

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From: Pittsburgh
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I plan to post it before 11 PM EST today (Sunday). The energy tech tree will be done, as well as the usual race polishing, balancing and fixes. Some new art too.

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Post #: 240