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RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod

 
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RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod - 8/24/2014 5:17:57 PM   
Japhet

 

Posts: 110
Joined: 8/15/2014
Status: offline 		Looking forward for the new release.

In the meantime, here're everyone's favourite cannibalistic bird people - the Kroot. Only four ship images, but the rest is all there, art wise, at least. I had to create most things from scratch, so the UI looks a little primitive a and simple, but I think thats fitting for the Kroot.

Working on Chaos is frustrating, there's not much I can do. I managed to finish the UI icons, but since chaos is a nonplayer faction, nobody will ever see them. In terms of ships and bases, I have several bomber and fighter images and some special capitalships. Not much, really.

However, I've found a nice ship set for the Orks. It doesn't look like the canon Ork ships, but I think they're more...well, orkish. It could at least serve as ships for the freebooterz.

Attachment (1)

(in reply to mensrea)
Post #: 241
RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod - 8/24/2014 5:26:23 PM   
blackhelm

 

Posts: 7
Joined: 8/5/2014
Status: offline 		So (mentioning the tau reminded me) why are the Kroot a pirate race? Or am I just crazy and that Kroot photo is totally something else? I wasn't aware that the Imperium, or anyone else, ran into the Kroot prior to the Tau helping them against greenskin incursions in M38 or so. I don't particularly feel very strongly either way (frankly, I'm surprised the rather enthusiastic piracy and mercenary bent of the Kroot didn't cause them to play in galactic events far earlier), but for consistency's sake, it might be good to think about nixing them.

Looking forward to the next update!

Edit: Aha! Japhet ninja'd me and confirmed my suspicions! Anyways, I'm cool with having the Kroot, because flavor-wise it definitely SEEMS like they'd go be pirate mercs, but there's no lore for it during the Great Crusade.

< Message edited by blackhelm -- 8/24/2014 6:27:52 PM >

(in reply to mensrea)
Post #: 242
RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod - 8/24/2014 6:24:56 PM   
mensrea


Posts: 233
Joined: 5/23/2014
From: Pittsburgh
Status: offline 		The Chaos art will be used by the Laer (Slaanesh worshipers: http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Laer ) and the Brotherhood of Ruin (a mixed pirate faction that worshipped Chaos: http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Brotherhood_of_Ruin ).

Yeah, I actually just googled "wh40k mercenary" at some point and put one of the pictures I found in. At the time I didn't realize it was the Kroot, and after I did I figured no one else would. It seems my time is up and I will have to replace them.

I will use the Kroot stuff for the Vrakk, as they are basically giant Kroot.


(in reply to blackhelm)
Post #: 243
RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod - 8/24/2014 8:55:25 PM   
mensrea


Posts: 233
Joined: 5/23/2014
From: Pittsburgh
Status: offline 		So after planning what to do with research cost balancing I have a solution but first I wanted to reveal my findings and give a little background.

Each tech after column 1 doubles the previous column and we have 17 columns. This means we go from 2 times as expensive at tier 2 tech to 131,072 more expensive at tier 17. At normal research rates of 120k base then the most expensive tech would cost 2,061,584,302,080k. Even with 6000k research that would take 12,369,505,812,480 months, or 1,030,792,151,040 years to complete.

Now, even if I set it to 1k base research, level 17 tech would still cost 131,072k. At a more modest research rate of 2000k that would still take 60 months, or 5 years, to complete.

Of course I'm not factoring in tech theft, crash research (natural or forced), tech trading or other discoveries in this, but I'm thinking the difference would not be that profound.

The solution I have in mind is to make costs linearly more expensive after x32. So instead of 32-64-128-256, etc it will be 32-50-70-90 and so on. Now, keep in mind that at normal base research rate the 32 is 3840k, which is still a pretty hefty sum. Still, its actually doable at this rate, especially if you dump extra money into crashing research projects.

Any thoughts?

(in reply to mensrea)
Post #: 244
RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod - 8/24/2014 9:31:56 PM   
Solarius Scorch


Posts: 180
Joined: 5/25/2013
From: Cracow, Poland
Status: offline 		Hmm... While Tau definitely aren't ready to explore the galaxy, weren't Vespids advanced enough...? I'm not sure... Well, just a thought.

_____________________________

Forever Future 1.7 for Call to Power - the biggest mod for the best Civilization-like game ever!

(in reply to mensrea)
Post #: 245
RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod - 8/24/2014 9:48:00 PM   
Capshades

 

Posts: 138
Joined: 8/2/2014
Status: offline 		Your solution sounds good, how long would column 17 tech take to complete at 120k base, with average research speeds and your new concept?

< Message edited by Capshades -- 8/24/2014 10:53:35 PM >

(in reply to Solarius Scorch)
Post #: 246
RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod - 8/24/2014 10:52:47 PM   
mensrea


Posts: 233
Joined: 5/23/2014
From: Pittsburgh
Status: offline 		Average (2000k~) at the highest possible research cost (25200k) would take a year. If you throw money into it, 4 months. The super weapons start over at x50 though, or they would be too expensive. This is at the 120k base, which is normal. I think this is a very good balance now. At the lowest research setting possible (1k) a user could fly through the research system. At the highest it would take a very long time.

By the way snizzle I really have to thank you again for pushing this issue. I was a little stubborn at first but this is actually reasonable now.

(in reply to Capshades)
Post #: 247
RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod - 8/25/2014 2:17:16 AM   
mensrea


Posts: 233
Joined: 5/23/2014
From: Pittsburgh
Status: offline 		Alright, time for v.9! Things are really starting to come together now. The tech tree is 2/3 done. All but 3 main races are finished. I have devised some new systems that I will be using to classify races, and I have been working towards those systems with this update. I did not add the Tyranids yet, but when I do they will be worth it, having their own unique techs for just about everything. In general this update represents a major overhaul, mostly due to the tech fixes, but we are getting closer to being done with races. Lots of new artwork too, thanks to Japhet and GEM.

Anyway, here it is: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/56152025/WH40k%20mod%20v.9.zip

And here is the changelog.

v.9 changelog

-completely new energy & construction tech tree
-balanced tech tree costs. it's actually reasonable now
-reworked e&c components
-fixes and balancing for weapons tech tree
-beginning fixes to high-tech tech tree
-reworked many components for better firing animations
-more racial balancing. working towards 5 general categories of races
-more tech trees for legacy components. moving away from 1 tech gives all
-UI's and complete and improved shipsets for Imperials, Eldar, and Ork. added many new flags. UI for Vrakk (thanks to Japhet)
-more government balancing
-reworked Necrons
-general reduction to maintenance reductions
-new named characters for the Interex: Sumrell, Sosa, Klyne, Japhet, Maponus
-added improved images from GEM (credit goes to Martian)
-fixed all reported bugs and addressed all approved suggestions
-general fixes and reorganizations


< Message edited by mensrea -- 8/25/2014 3:18:43 AM >

(in reply to mensrea)
Post #: 248
RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod - 8/25/2014 5:22:37 AM   
Capshades

 

Posts: 138
Joined: 8/2/2014
Status: offline 		Everything looks good so far, just one thing that bugs me. The text line "Weapons & Defenses" seems to have expanded the definitions box in the unit info window, squishing in the actual information box. Not a problem, just looks really weird haha

Like the changes to the tech tree, looks like you pulled it off well. I really like what you did with the thrusters and vectors.

Really like some of the new art. Are the star animations new too? They look really cool.

Edit: Also, did you change component resource requirements a lot? It seems like I'm constantly out of uranium for the first 20 minutes.

Is the planet (specifically homeworld) construction speed for imperials supposed to be decreased by 1/4? Looks like all the boost are still there but it's outputting a quarter of the old build rate.


< Message edited by Capshades -- 8/25/2014 7:04:33 AM >

(in reply to mensrea)
Post #: 249
RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod - 8/25/2014 1:21:27 PM   
mensrea


Posts: 233
Joined: 5/23/2014
From: Pittsburgh
Status: offline 		Well, I could easily change it back to just weapons, it just bothered me that armor was there. I am using a monitor with a pathetically low resolution so that is probably the reason I didn't realize that.

Thanks, Cap. I didn't like how thrusters were done before so I took that approach.

The art is from GEM, the graphics enhancement mod: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3211317&mpage=1&key= . It was gathered from various artists and assembled by Martian.

I did increase uranium costs as I felt I had made them too cheap again but its a very fine balance. I may have to work with it again a little. Make sure the AI is not pumping out ships with atomic weapons as that will put a big dent in your uranium stocks.

And no, its not supposed to be doing that with the Imperials. I don't receall changing anything so I don't know what the issue is. I will take a look.

(in reply to Capshades)
Post #: 250
RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod - 8/25/2014 1:46:24 PM   
Cyrtis

 

Posts: 30
Joined: 10/29/2012
Status: offline 		Love what you're doing with this mod! Just a minor thing- it seems the necrons are locked out of building armoured divisions, as they cannot build the prerequisite tech. I don't know if that was intentional or not.

(in reply to mensrea)
Post #: 251
RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod - 8/25/2014 3:40:51 PM   
Cyrtis

 

Posts: 30
Joined: 10/29/2012
Status: offline 		Where can I find out what all the character traits actually do? Is there a guide somewhere?

(in reply to Cyrtis)
Post #: 252
RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod - 8/25/2014 5:08:43 PM   
ehsumrell1


Posts: 2529
Joined: 8/17/2010
From: The Briar Patch Nebula
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cyrtis

Where can I find out what all the character traits actually do? Is there a guide somewhere?

Yes Cyrtis, there is a section on what the Character Traits and Skills are in the Appendix in
the back of the DW Universe Modding guide.

You can get it via download here: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3615682

_____________________________

Shields are useless in "The Briar Patch"...

(in reply to Cyrtis)
Post #: 253
RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod - 8/25/2014 6:08:59 PM   
Cyrtis

 

Posts: 30
Joined: 10/29/2012
Status: offline 		Thanks! By the way, what is "The Briar Patch"?

(in reply to ehsumrell1)
Post #: 254
RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod - 8/25/2014 6:57:09 PM   
mensrea


Posts: 233
Joined: 5/23/2014
From: Pittsburgh
Status: offline 		It was from a good Star Trek movie: http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Briar_Patch .

(in reply to mensrea)
Post #: 255
RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod - 8/25/2014 9:01:10 PM   
Japhet

 

Posts: 110
Joined: 8/15/2014
Status: offline 		Chaos. Not much compared to the onther packs, just two UI sets for the Emperors Children and the World Bearers, some character portraits (mostly fallen Primarchs), some new ships (fighters & bombers) and a collection of chaos troops (not usage ready though).

Oh, and I noticed that some of my images in the mod are labeled wrong or misspelled, which means that they will not show up properly. I'm sorry for that.



Attachment (1)

(in reply to mensrea)
Post #: 256
RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod - 8/25/2014 10:02:38 PM   
Capshades

 

Posts: 138
Joined: 8/2/2014
Status: offline 		My homeworld is currently producing 9000 construction points, where as it used to produce 10800 in the last couple versions of the mod. (26+ billion people, Imperial continental 98%+, Bakura shipyards)

And I don't build military ships for like the first hour, so the Uranium crisis was all due to just civilian ships and constructors.

< Message edited by Capshades -- 8/25/2014 11:03:37 PM >

(in reply to Japhet)
Post #: 257
RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod - 8/25/2014 10:57:42 PM   
mensrea


Posts: 233
Joined: 5/23/2014
From: Pittsburgh
Status: offline 		Cyrtis - Sorry about that. I was trying to force Necrons into not using any armor but the necrodermis and I inadvertently locked them out of researching armored troops. It will be fixed. How are the Necrons doing, by the way? I was unsure about restricting them from shields but that armor is pretty tough stuff, especially combined with their nano-repair modules. That does remind me though...I should be making Necron infantry much stronger, sort of like how I made the Astartes very powerful.

It's cool Japhet, mistakes happen, I just appreciate your contributions. As you guys know I am not big on the art dept. so I have been relying on user submissions. Thanks again.

Capshades - I think I may have misunderstood your first post a little. Thinking about it I may have altered something with that as part of general balancing but I will double check to make sure it wasn't something unintended.

Also, I removed the fuel cells, which were early generators and needed nothing but lots of minerals and some ore. So now if you start on a world without uranium there's a chance you could face crippling shortages if the stocks get used up by overly ambitious AI. My suggestion is to immediately rush your constructors to uranium deposits as the fusion reactors are a little harder to get to and require enormous amounts of hydrogen to build anyway.

I also wanted to get some feedback about the tech tree so far. There are already a dozen or so things that I will be changing, mostly involving new techs, but before I commit to that I want to know what else I might need to add/fix/etc. I am thinking that bringing those fuel cells back may be nice; they will be the one form of power generation that actually uses vanilla amounts of fuel. So please, weigh in on the tech tree so far, make suggestions, critiques, etc, it is all valued input.

(in reply to Capshades)
Post #: 258
RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod - 8/26/2014 6:08:20 AM   
Capshades

 

Posts: 138
Joined: 8/2/2014
Status: offline 		I really like the idea of fuel cells, makes it more enjoyable for pre-warp/one planet starts. Their just being really inefficient made it important to upgrade soon, but didn't require you to have rare resources just to start expanding.

Really excited to see what you do with the High-Tech tree, will you be making it easier/harder/same to get wonders?

(in reply to mensrea)
Post #: 259
RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod - 8/26/2014 7:20:18 AM   
swizzlewizzle

 

Posts: 151
Joined: 3/16/2014
Status: offline 		AI problem I wanted to bring up.

Check this out:

As you can see, the imperial AI has not moved out from his homeworld yet... and this is a few years into the game. There are so many ships there that it almost completely lagged out my game. :(

Wonder how we can fix this...

(in reply to Capshades)
Post #: 260
RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod - 8/26/2014 1:28:46 PM   
mensrea


Posts: 233
Joined: 5/23/2014
From: Pittsburgh
Status: offline 		I will add fuel cells back, then. They seemed to fill a good niche.

With the high tech tree I will be splitting up techs that I see as deserving of their own research line and then balancing the base components. I have already reworked life support and habs, as well as docks and cargo holds. The wonders will likely come after the tech update. I don't consider them as big of an effort but there will be numerous changes to the tech trees I have released with the final tech update.

Swizzle - Reducing fleet maintenance reductions for the Nth time would fix it and would be the easiest way to do so (though reductions on the scale of 20 or more percent would be necessary), but my question is how come after several years they are still sitting on their planet, and I think the reason is they have a very low tolerance for combat losses. It seems that forcing the AI to make rational decisions is not always a good thing, aside from being sort of uncharacteristic of certain races. It leads to these cold war build ups where one sides escalation causes the other side to escalate and meanwhile no ships are actually being lost. From here on out aggressive races will no longer behave rationally then and will attempt to fight almost regardless of odds.

Can you tell me a little about the game? I still don't understand why they wouldn't have more than one colony...I see the same behavior in some of my test games and the only thing I can see that explains it is that they just give up based off fear of other races militaries. One of the reasons I buffed economies was to encourage colonization, but even with lots of money, colonization set to max and the ability to build colony ships faster they still do this kind of stuff. There are probably dozens of worlds they could be colonizing, but they just sit there. Too bad I couldn't set up an initial build order, sort of like how we can set up research orders.

Why are the ancient guardians still hounding you? Those guys are like telemarketers or something. You can save that game if you don't mind deleting the Imperials using the map editor. I have done so to numerous vanilla games where the Mechanoids made things unplayable.

(in reply to swizzlewizzle)
Post #: 261
RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod - 8/26/2014 3:49:49 PM   
swizzlewizzle

 

Posts: 151
Joined: 3/16/2014
Status: offline 		Honestly mensrea most of the AI stuff is hard locked into the engine's code. The modding guide didn't have anything about the underlying AI. The only way to get a better idea about why the AI is behaving like this is either to do a time consuming true/false test with some of our deductions or to just get one of the devs to reply to this thread... getting the dev in here would probably be easiest haha.

My personal opinion is just, like you said, to throw away the whole "rationality" thing. In addition to that, if we could somehow increase the likelyhood of most races looking for alliances against common enemies, that would be great. Especially against the player. Once the player gets an edge over the rest of the empires they really need to start getting aggressive with their alliance building. I'm not 100% if there is a way to encourage this, but if there is, it would be good.

About the ancient guardians... honestly I don't really care so much about it. :)

(in reply to mensrea)
Post #: 262
RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod - 8/26/2014 5:08:53 PM   
mensrea


Posts: 233
Joined: 5/23/2014
From: Pittsburgh
Status: offline 		Yeah the unmoddable features can sometimes be very frustrating. I have been trying to work around my limitations by indirectly affecting things I want changed. Colonization for one, reproduction rates for two. The prime reason reproduction rates were increased so much over vanillas was because I hate how races don't reproduce at the rate they are set at, whether or not they have access to necessary resources. I honestly may remove ores and minerals being needed for growth because they are probably just overcomplicating things. I just would like to disable the effects taxes have on reproducing. It would make reproduction a lot less fuzzy and fickle. Many economic features were drastically buffed to mitigate the effects of expanding fast and hard and colonizing lots of sub 60% worlds. If the AI is just sitting on their ass building lag fleets though I may as well roll some of that back.

And yeah, I think I may actually make a feature request for a build order or something. I haven't made any requests yet because I realize the dev's are better off addressing bugs rather than adding new features but a build order would be extremely helpful.

As part of the racial overhaul at least 4 races are very prone to making allies and about 8 others will consider it. As far as ganging up on opponents that are growing too powerful that's not something I can do.

(in reply to swizzlewizzle)
Post #: 263
RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod - 8/26/2014 8:35:52 PM   
Capshades

 

Posts: 138
Joined: 8/2/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mensrea
It leads to these cold war build ups where one sides escalation causes the other side to escalate and meanwhile no ships are actually being lost. From here on out aggressive races will no longer behave rationally then and will attempt to fight almost regardless of odds.

Too many random small wars can get annoying though.

And all races still seem to hate Imperials straight off the bat. Out of 19 races, only 3 have a opinion better than -100 of me, and none are positive (satisfactory reputation.) And this is 20 years into the game with only one war lol. Shouldn't at least a couple human races be happy with me before I wipe them out? If we found other humans out there today, even if they were militaristic assholes, wouldn't we still be happy?

< Message edited by Capshades -- 8/27/2014 6:02:17 AM >

(in reply to mensrea)
Post #: 264
RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod - 8/26/2014 9:45:26 PM   
Cyrtis

 

Posts: 30
Joined: 10/29/2012
Status: offline 		Why can't the Hrud be selected as a normal empire at the start?

(in reply to Capshades)
Post #: 265
RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod - 8/27/2014 12:54:26 AM   
Japhet

 

Posts: 110
Joined: 8/15/2014
Status: offline
quote:

Why can't the Hrud be selected as a normal empire at the start?

I suppose they're not meant to be a playable race, pretty much like the Shakturi in the vanilla DW.

mensrea, is it actually possible to add new troop types? For example, it would be really nice to have Titans as actual endgame units. In general, I find it a little sad, that the majority of ground techs in DW are just buffs.

Btw, I encountered a strange lag when I fought a space battle with the Interex (as the Eldar). I suspect it had something to do with projectile weapons, because it only started lagging after my ships were equipped with them.

(in reply to Cyrtis)
Post #: 266
RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod - 8/27/2014 1:29:25 PM   
swizzlewizzle

 

Posts: 151
Joined: 3/16/2014
Status: offline 		Seems there is a similar problem with the AI targeting module... the auto design thinks it is "low tech" and replaces it with crappy normal targeting components that are "higher" tech. ;(

*From the robotics legacy tech i mean

Also wanted to add.. it seems that the necron exterminate bonus is not working correct and it is also actually a bit weak..

Races like the imperials end up with a ~32% or higher growth rate when the necrons have a rate of ~ 4-6%.. so even at a 4x multiplier, your necrons will STILL grow slower then the imperials they are "converting". Thus, it doesn't make much sense to do anything except assimilate other species (plus you get their bonus) unless you have some serious happiness problems.. Also, new colonies usually have a much lower happiness then established colonies due to the "recently conquered" and "incorrect race" maluses... this prevents necrons from "migrating" to conquered colonies and ever getting the exterminate bonus in the first place :(

The main problem seems to be that a necron "citizen" doesn't give anything better then an ork "citizen"... even though the ork reproduces at about 10x or more the rate ~_~

Not sure what you want to do about that.

< Message edited by swizzlewizzle -- 8/27/2014 3:52:56 PM >

(in reply to Japhet)
Post #: 267
RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod - 8/27/2014 3:14:25 PM   
Cyrtis

 

Posts: 30
Joined: 10/29/2012
Status: offline 		Exactly! I am having major financial problems as necrons. The only way my economy isn't in the red is because Laer and Interex have migrated and reproduced like mad. In a matter of years, the necrons will be completely outnumbered by their subject populations.

Granted, my ships are almost invincible. But- I can only make a dozen of them. I have absolute orbital superiority, when I can marshall my forces. But against a fast enemy, my colonies are no more protected from bombardment or invasion for it.

(in reply to swizzlewizzle)
Post #: 268
RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod - 8/27/2014 3:15:58 PM   
Cyrtis

 

Posts: 30
Joined: 10/29/2012
Status: offline 		While totally contrary to the lore, I like the idea of a society of robot overlords offering safe harbor to weaker races.

(in reply to Cyrtis)
Post #: 269
RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod - 8/27/2014 8:49:04 PM   
Capshades

 

Posts: 138
Joined: 8/2/2014
Status: offline 		Also, just double checking: The only fuel resource is gas correct? All the reactor techs list their fuel types as gas.

In which case what is hydrogen used for?

And what's a practical number of novacannons for a defense station, 4?

< Message edited by Capshades -- 8/28/2014 12:14:57 AM >

(in reply to Cyrtis)
Post #: 270
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