Force pool and selection method

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Close Combat Series >> Close Combat: Panthers in the Fog >> Force pool and selection method

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Force pool and selection method - 1/4/2014 9:04:07 AM

Chris77

Posts: 7
Joined: 6/13/2013
Status: offline

Happy new year!
While PITF undoubtly looks great, I must say that the way in which you compose your force, leaves much to be desired. I cannot understand why Matrix has changed the selection method from earlier games. If the goal was to simplify the process, why make it rigid and with so few options?
With few options, I don�t argue that the overall selection is good, but why infantry platoons must be without AT units, scout teams, MG teams and sofort. At the same time, why so few slots are open in the support section (for most BG�s). Prioritizing is any commanders responsibility, but there is too much based on the fact that choosing one unit - say a Bazooka - means being without proper IDF support teams, vehicles or other key assets that are valuable.

On the same note - trucks and jeeps/Kubelwagens: Why are they not armed? Allowing for mouting and towing of guns is very good, but they are pretty useless without defense weapons, and not something you can afford to choose in an already sparse selection environment.

I think that the strength from previous games, and very enjoyable mods such as Platoon Michaels "VETBOB" etc., is the selection of teams/units itself, and the diversity that it brings to the game. If there is a mod I missed, please let me know, and also please give some feedback to Matrix, so we can continue to enjoy these great games.

Post #: 1

RE: Force pool and selection method - 1/4/2014 6:02:11 PM

TIK

Posts: 116
Joined: 5/4/2013
Status: offline

Agreed. No one takes bazookas in multiplayer - and why would you? If it's a choice between a bazooka and a tank, you're going to take the tank in most situations. Same with MG's and mortars. And because you can't take AT infantry, the battles mostly boil down to tank warfare. Whoever wins the tank battles, wins the battle because your infantry have no chance.

Some of these issues are being resolved in Gateway to Caen, thankfully. They're going to mix AT infantry and mortars in with the platoons. Maybe they'll include scouts and MGs as well. And maybe (hopefully) we'll see a patch in the future that updates the battlegroups in PitF too.

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I have a Youtube Channel that features Close Combat and Panzer Corps Let's Plays and videos, as well as historical documentaries.

(in reply to Chris77)

Post #: 2

RE: Force pool and selection method - 1/6/2014 9:06:34 PM

CGGrognard

Posts: 594
Joined: 10/3/2013
From: USA
Status: offline

I agree with the force support selection, and that players will take the armor over the AT team. But Panthers in the Fog battle groups were intended to reflect historical force pools. It that sense, a historical force pool can be challenging and uneven, which as wars go, it's not always a fair fight. For example the Americans had numerical superiority in tanks in WW2, while the Germans had quality tanks by some measurements. Given the support slots in the force pools aren't deep enough, or there's not AT teams imbedded with squads is intententional.
Again, I agree with you and prefer the point system from earlier CC versions, though PitF did bring some challenging battles with it. In some battles, it's better to give up the ground as opposed to facing overwhelming odds. This can be difficult when you can't "flee" and have to rely on the enemy accepting a truce. Remember some infantry squads have natural AT capabilities that seem very adept at taking out tanks at short range with hand grenades. Though once their position is exposed, they usually are eliminated quite quickly.
I'm on a mission to try and fight battles without tanks, just to see how the battle goes and to develop new strategies. Maybe I'll have many defeats not using tanks, but if I win without tanks, that will be so great. A point system or imbedding AT into squads would be nice, but historical force pools can add more challenge.

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"The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting." - Sun Tzu

(in reply to TIK)

Post #: 3

RE: Force pool and selection method - 1/15/2014 7:20:38 AM

Pvt_Grunt

Posts: 327
Joined: 2/13/2007
From: Frankston Victoria
Status: offline

You could use the "2 vehicles only rule" with agreement from your opponent. This will force the use of other support units.

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Post #: 4

RE: Force pool and selection method - 1/15/2014 11:01:15 AM

johnsilver

Posts: 188
Joined: 2/7/2012
From: Florida
Status: offline

quote:

Again, I agree with you and prefer the point system from earlier CC versions

I much prefer the force pool system of CC5, WAR and TLD over CC3, even though enjoyed that game immensely when it was 1st released. The FP style of those 3 and popularity of especially CC5 and TLD over the years would seem to have made an impression and kept it in place.

(in reply to Pvt_Grunt)

Post #: 5

RE: Force pool and selection method - 2/8/2014 4:35:03 AM

STIENER

Posts: 857
Joined: 1/7/2001
From: Vancouver, Canada
Status: offline

i also agree with you all and have already voiced my concerns. doubtfull matrix will listen tho. they typically ignore the people that buy and play there games....usually saying things like...not enough players have voiced any concerns etc.........so there for its all ok and we will continue to not change anything.
its very frustrating....let me tell you.
the force pool selection wrecked the game for me, and for some other CC PITF players i no too. i now play more LSA and LSA GJS then anything else.
we'll see if they actually change anything in the force pool selection that really makes the game better for us in gateway to caen. im not holding my breath tho.

(in reply to johnsilver)

Post #: 6

RE: Force pool and selection method - 9/15/2014 2:24:55 AM

okikase

Posts: 10
Joined: 9/15/2014
Status: offline

May I bring in my question here about Operations and Campaigns and the Air, Artillery, and Mortar Support? The manual says the amount of support is shown next to the support icon. Yet there is never any support amount shown here, or in some cases the amount is showing "0".
How does this amount get set? Can I change the amounts? What is the point of these icons if there is never any amount and there is nothing to assign? I tried the Editor but I can't see any way to read and modify, the A,A & M Support for Ops and Cams.

(in reply to STIENER)

Post #: 7

RE: Force pool and selection method - 9/15/2014 3:00:56 PM

SteveMcClaire

Posts: 4472
Joined: 11/19/2007
Status: offline

On the Strategic Screen you will see a number next to each support icon that indicates how much is available. If the icon is grayed out, you do not have any of that type available at all. If it says "0" then you either 1) had some available and have allocated it all, or 2) have none now but will receive some on the next morning turn.

Once you're in a battle, you only ever have one support mission of any given type. So there are no numbers there. The artillery/mortar/air buttons are either enabled or they're not. Support takes a variable amount of time to become available after the start of a battle, so if you finish the battle quickly you may not see the support light up. Unused support missions from a battle are returned to your total on the Strategic screen for next turn.

Steve

(in reply to okikase)

Post #: 8

RE: Force pool and selection method - 9/17/2014 9:27:40 AM

okikase

Posts: 10
Joined: 9/15/2014
Status: offline

Thanks for reply. I take it there is no way I can change the quantities in the Air, Artillery, and Mortar as well as all those other Support icons, in Operations and Campaigns?

(in reply to SteveMcClaire)

Post #: 9

RE: Force pool and selection method - 9/19/2014 9:41:36 PM

SteveMcClaire

Posts: 4472
Joined: 11/19/2007
Status: offline

The difficulty level you select will have some effect on how much support is available -- the higher the difficulty, the less support you will have. Otherwise it can't be changed to a specific value without modding the game. In the \Data\Base directory under the game install is a file called Campaign.txt. Settings for the amount of fire support can be modified there. Note that if you play a multiplayer game with modified files, you will likely experience some problems unless both players have identical files.

Steve

(in reply to okikase)

Post #: 10