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RE: [A.6] {WIP} Beyond Extended Universe (DW:U 1.9.5.7)

 
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RE: [A.6] {WIP} Beyond Extended Universe (DW:U 1.9.5.7) - 9/16/2014 10:33:35 AM   
Blackstork


Posts: 802
Joined: 7/7/2014
Status: offline 		Another art graph about Keskudon Character systems special groups
Adding it to OP.


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(in reply to Blackstork)
Post #: 361
RE: [A.6] {WIP} Beyond Extended Universe (DW:U 1.9.5.7) - 9/16/2014 10:58:28 AM   
Blackstork


Posts: 802
Joined: 7/7/2014
Status: offline 		Community Poll:
What is better to explain strengths/weaknesses of racial Character system :
- Leadership Portfolio Graph (as in OP done for Gizureans, Quameno, Dlakar, Archei, Zadaj, Laaran, Yereni etc)
- Or Art guides like Keskudon / Ketarov + Lore texts attached, hinting on bonuses/strength in lore form in lore text articles, gathered in pedia?

I can't maintain doing both - thats a huge amount of work. LPGs are very complex, take alot of time to do, and bit dry, and confusing, so i am consider to focus on lore articles with writers that joined this project recently, and do such art splashes as Keskudon's above, styled differently for different races.
I would like to hear player's oppinions on this matter. Cheers.

< Message edited by Blackstork -- 9/16/2014 12:31:40 PM >

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Post #: 362
RE: [A.6] {WIP} Beyond Extended Universe (DW:U 1.9.5.7) - 9/16/2014 12:50:16 PM   
Hawkeye_BF


Posts: 78
Joined: 1/20/2014
From: Austria
Status: offline 		GREAT WORK, THANK YOU SO MUCH.
Yesterday I had not much time but now I start playing the first game with the new and great Version 6.
OHHHH YEEEAAAHHH :)))

(in reply to Blackstork)
Post #: 363
RE: [A.6] {WIP} Beyond Extended Universe (DW:U 1.9.5.7) - 9/16/2014 2:35:49 PM   
Blackstork


Posts: 802
Joined: 7/7/2014
Status: offline 		@Hawkeye_BF You are wellcome! you are wllcome to share your experience/feelings/screenshots if you will desire to do so, player's feedback and feelings with all added immersion stuff are very interesting to me as main mod dev :)

Please, if anyone thinks that removal of LPG (those complex graphs at OP) graphs, and making Lore articles and Graphs like those of Keskudon and Ketarov instead of them is bad idea - i would be interested to hear them. For now the intention is not to continue with them (they are complex, confusing... and take alot of effort to make), and i will do lore articles together with new writer team, and will do such boards as Keskudon and Ketarov example for each race instead of LPGs.


< Message edited by Blackstork -- 9/16/2014 3:37:07 PM >

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Post #: 364
RE: [A.6] {WIP} Beyond Extended Universe (DW:U 1.9.5.7) - 9/16/2014 2:43:33 PM   
Hawkeye_BF


Posts: 78
Joined: 1/20/2014
From: Austria
Status: offline 		I have a short question:

Could it be that the Construction Speed of Mines and Ship is faster???
And if the speed is faster... why???


(in reply to Blackstork)
Post #: 365
RE: [A.6] {WIP} Beyond Extended Universe (DW:U 1.9.5.7) - 9/16/2014 2:52:13 PM   
Blackstork


Posts: 802
Joined: 7/7/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hawkeye_BF

I have a short question:

Could it be that the Construction Speed of Mines and Ship is faster???
And if the speed is faster... why???




Reason 1. It depends which race you play. Certain Races have serious construction speed bonuses (there are few). There are very few races (very very few) that have rapid constructions bonuses (Only one which comes to my mind is Archei). This is part of design and balance.

Reason 2. Second thing which comes to my mind is that Icemanias mod had mistake in constructions speeds, and homeworld planets were designed to have +33% constructions speed compared to vanilla, but instead, due to mistake, they built things 33% slower. So if you will compare this to vanilla, this will be +33% increase, and if you compare it to "mistake" setup which is in untocuhed AI mod (which is defenitely mistake) it will be andother +33% or so. Perhaps this is how it feels in comparison. This is intended feature and current state is correct and balanced (before oceanic race had -25% production speed on its native planet, and somewhat like 200% speed on volcanic which is , as you understand from simple logic, is bad ) :).

I am not sure which race you play, but perhaps you have 2 reasons combined, and while each one is somewhat not so noticeable, if combined could be something that will make you feel the difference. Or you are playing Archei. Or you playing race which leaders have construction speed bonuses combined with innate small construction speed bonus (consider it equal to Reason 1)




< Message edited by Blackstork -- 9/16/2014 3:58:01 PM >

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Post #: 366
RE: [A.6] {WIP} Beyond Extended Universe (DW:U 1.9.5.7) - 9/16/2014 4:35:57 PM   
Hawkeye_BF


Posts: 78
Joined: 1/20/2014
From: Austria
Status: offline 		AHhh ok I understand, thank you very much :)))

(in reply to Blackstork)
Post #: 367
RE: [A.6] {WIP} Beyond Extended Universe (DW:U 1.9.5.7) - 9/16/2014 4:37:35 PM   
Blackstork


Posts: 802
Joined: 7/7/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hawkeye_BF

AHhh ok I understand, thank you very much :)))


NP, and you are wellcome! :)
Please note that the consequences of reason 2 building on not native planets with native population could make construction times very long, esp compared to un-corrected AI mod construction speeds which had +150-200% speeds for completely incompatible planets (ie lavas races on ice planets, desert races on ocean planets etc),
So now that change could feel also drastic, to opposite direction.
also Archei are very special case, and Napoar and Veey too, since they have different laws about planet type construction speeds.


< Message edited by Blackstork -- 9/16/2014 5:44:44 PM >

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Post #: 368
RE: [A.6] {WIP} Beyond Extended Universe (DW:U 1.9.5.7) - 9/16/2014 7:54:59 PM   
Blackstork


Posts: 802
Joined: 7/7/2014
Status: offline 		Another Race Group chart guide:
Naxxilians - adding to OP. Later all of them, when they will be numerous, will be added as entries in pedia / or just added to racial pedia entry.


< Message edited by Blackstork -- 9/16/2014 9:02:14 PM >

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Post #: 369
RE: [A.6] {WIP} Beyond Extended Universe (DW:U 1.9.5.7) - 9/16/2014 8:49:15 PM   
joproulx99

 

Posts: 24
Joined: 9/10/2014
Status: offline 		Hello Blackstork! 1rst of all id like to tell you great job man! :O

I havent had time to try it out extensively yet, but back in shadows I was solo modding this game and i know how much work it is to do what you do now.

That being said I'd stick with the Art Guide so that you save your precious time, honestly. Although i have a suggestion, why not just be very transparent and just add something along those lines:

Race XXX

family xx:
xx% chance for new Admiral to get :
-% x trait etc
-% x trait
etc..

something like that would work IMHO and is simple to do as you already somehow do it when you create characters.


(in reply to Blackstork)
Post #: 370
RE: [A.6] {WIP} Beyond Extended Universe (DW:U 1.9.5.7) - 9/16/2014 9:32:06 PM   
hezamajeza

 

Posts: 4
Joined: 9/10/2014
Status: offline 		Personally, I Think the art guides are far more appealing with the lore texts as a short guide to strengths and bonuses. The LPG's are complex and, even though they give a lot of info once you understand the charts / graphs, I find the lore's get me involved in the playing of that Race (I have a very active imagination)

Great work with A.6 Can't get enough of Beyond Extended.

(in reply to Blackstork)
Post #: 371
RE: [A.6] {WIP} Beyond Extended Universe (DW:U 1.9.5.7) - 9/16/2014 9:50:45 PM   
Blackstork


Posts: 802
Joined: 7/7/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: joproulx99

Hello Blackstork! 1rst of all id like to tell you great job man! :O

I havent had time to try it out extensively yet, but back in shadows I was solo modding this game and i know how much work it is to do what you do now.

That being said I'd stick with the Art Guide so that you save your precious time, honestly. Although i have a suggestion, why not just be very transparent and just add something along those lines:

Race XXX

family xx:
xx% chance for new Admiral to get :
-% x trait etc
-% x trait
etc..

something like that would work IMHO and is simple to do as you already somehow do it when you create characters.



1st of all thanks alot!
This could be even more extensive work.... Even more than it takes to make LPGs, sadly... So there is way to be somewhat mechanics-oriented in short form (the shortest way is LPGs), or just hint things in lore form, and let the player reveal numbers, chances and etc. themselves. Doing thing you suggested will need huge double work which i better invest into further advancement on project, and wont be immersive and so useful for half of players who wont dig such huge pile of numbers (it is , believe me :P ). I could check some option with our mod programmer ergie, but still, i dont think it will matter much, because it will provide huge amounts of hard to digest data. I prefer to do it "pretty art way" , and leave some revealing/research to player. :)

@hezamajeza
I glad to hear it, i thought same way. Tho graphs are cool and more informative, they are just dry, confusing new players who are not familiar with them, and take alot time to do.
By the way Lore descriptions (articles) will have clear hints on what you should expect from race and its special groups.
Also, thanks ... aaaand more to come!



< Message edited by Blackstork -- 9/16/2014 10:58:47 PM >

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Post #: 372
RE: [A.6] {WIP} Beyond Extended Universe (DW:U 1.9.5.7) - 9/17/2014 12:49:29 AM   
joproulx99

 

Posts: 24
Joined: 9/10/2014
Status: offline 		Something about Corporate Nationalism, its abit old memory here but from what i remember there was a big problem with it and it was the fact that it was never meant to be anything more then a short term government...its going to deplete the civilians from thier money at some point and they will run dry of founds to buy anything destroying the economy...i would not be surprised that it as never been 'fixed' so the AI know to change government to not stick with it(sorry if im wrong).

I remember in vanilla that ketarov and humans were rarely competitive when they started and stayed C. N.

Idk if its still the case id suggest that you remove it completly lol, though its no big deal to me as with 50(?)races to play against, i can live with a few factions underperforming in some circumstances because of the AI not being able to adapt but still that was my 2c i guess :P

BTW im saying all this because I think that its impossible to balance a race around this government no matter how you try, because if you over buff them to try to compensate somehow...a revolution from AI spy etc will lead to huge imbalances lol.

Hope it was helpful thoughts anyhow :)

(in reply to Blackstork)
Post #: 373
RE: [A.6] {WIP} Beyond Extended Universe (DW:U 1.9.5.7) - 9/17/2014 1:09:51 AM   
Blackstork


Posts: 802
Joined: 7/7/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: joproulx99

Something about Corporate Nationalism, its abit old memory here but from what i remember there was a big problem with it and it was the fact that it was never meant to be anything more then a short term government...its going to deplete the civilians from thier money at some point and they will run dry of founds to buy anything destroying the economy...i would not be surprised that it as never been 'fixed' so the AI know to change government to not stick with it(sorry if im wrong).

I remember in vanilla that ketarov and humans were rarely competitive when they started and stayed C. N.

Idk if its still the case id suggest that you remove it completly lol, though its no big deal to me as with 50(?)races to play against, i can live with a few factions underperforming in some circumstances because of the AI not being able to adapt but still that was my 2c i guess :P

BTW im saying all this because I think that its impossible to balance a race around this government no matter how you try, because if you over buff them to try to compensate somehow...a revolution from AI spy etc will lead to huge imbalances lol.

Hope it was helpful thoughts anyhow :)

Thank You, i think i will do the trick with creating something similar, and not using the old one.
Then Ketarovs will work well.
Thanks for the idea, instead of trying to break head with matching all to old CN, i will create new CN. :)

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Post #: 374
RE: [A.6] {WIP} Beyond Extended Universe (DW:U 1.9.5.7) - 9/17/2014 6:58:43 AM   
Blackstork


Posts: 802
Joined: 7/7/2014
Status: offline 		Continuing on art-charts :
Dhayut

added to OP.

PS. Seems i have some Dark Forces bias, 4 boards for them, none for others :P
They gave me cookies and here i am, on the dark side :P :V

< Message edited by Blackstork -- 9/17/2014 8:02:38 AM >

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Post #: 375
RE: [A.6] {WIP} Beyond Extended Universe (DW:U 1.9.5.7) - 9/17/2014 7:57:32 AM   
Blackstork


Posts: 802
Joined: 7/7/2014
Status: offline 		Yereni
adding this to LPG.
LPGs will be removed at some point.
Again if someone thingsk that LPGs are must have i would like to hear your reasoning :)


< Message edited by Blackstork -- 9/17/2014 9:02:54 AM >

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Post #: 376
RE: [A.6] {WIP} Beyond Extended Universe (DW:U 1.9.5.7) - 9/17/2014 12:42:32 PM   
Blackstork


Posts: 802
Joined: 7/7/2014
Status: offline 		Caleph group art loreboard. (i will call them GALs in difference from LPGs)
their entry in OP updated with their GAL.

And.... i will add this to gameplay tips.... there is the secret.... elite schools scientiests so powerful compared to normal ones (but SPECIALIZED!!!! while normals not), so there are alot of reasons to dismiss normal sceintiests because you may pop your scientiest capacity, while doing this you may open oportunity for one of school-bound scientiests to emerge to aid you. Or lizard in hands , or dragon in the sky, your choice.

And remainder: do not forget to read my gameplay tips and comments in the OP. All except Ketarov's (they will get some repolish soon) one are valid and could be useful to you in your journeys. :)

Also colonized/conquered Caleph population as non-fighter user race? even got Thacalis admiral? Leave guns for your fluffies, and go design new fighter fleet, those Caleps will make it run well!

< Message edited by Blackstork -- 9/17/2014 3:05:03 PM >

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Post #: 377
RE: [A.6] {WIP} Beyond Extended Universe (DW:U 1.9.5.7) - 9/17/2014 2:14:13 PM   
Blackstork


Posts: 802
Joined: 7/7/2014
Status: offline 		Please note that there is mistake in naming of Mortalen and Sluken race-specific Soundtrack files (they been not renamed from their original names), so they wont replace other race files, and wont be replaced by them if you follow the installation instructions for soundtracks. I will correct it in A.61 - Just note that if you play Mortalen - be sure you delete other race's 6 racial files from Theme/Sounds/Music files prior to installation, and remove those 6 mortalen tracks when you switch your race.
Other option to fix this quickly on your side is to rename them to:
Race01.mp3 ..... Race06.mp3 file names, in fashion of other racial soundtracks . This will fix the problem completely. Thanks

< Message edited by Blackstork -- 9/17/2014 3:21:08 PM >

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Post #: 378
RE: [A.6] {WIP} Beyond Extended Universe (DW:U 1.9.5.7) - 9/18/2014 8:43:39 AM   
Blackstork


Posts: 802
Joined: 7/7/2014
Status: offline 		Archei GAL

added to OP. Remember to read tips/remarks there too and check updated in A.6 in-game pedias which contain expanded info.
Those guys could have some very interesting and unique strategies. It's not on the surface, but perhaps some pros/experienced players could find what special about those and how differently they could be played. I am really satisfied with what mod acheived with them. I hope players find the way i am talking about, it's not that hard to guess, because, alas its most optimal style to play as Archei.

< Message edited by Blackstork -- 9/18/2014 10:10:14 AM >

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Post #: 379
RE: [A.6] {WIP} Beyond Extended Universe (DW:U 1.9.5.7) - 9/18/2014 9:58:33 AM   
SirFinbar

 

Posts: 33
Joined: 6/3/2014
Status: offline 		Let's continue with the art charts and lore pages.

I'm all settled in at my new place now, so can get working fast Blackstork.

(in reply to Blackstork)
Post #: 380
RE: [A.6] {WIP} Beyond Extended Universe (DW:U 1.9.5.7) - 9/18/2014 10:03:01 AM   
Blackstork


Posts: 802
Joined: 7/7/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SirFinbar

Let's continue with the art charts and lore pages.

I'm all settled in at my new place now, so can get working fast Blackstork.

For now for lore texts you can just base on GALS for races like Keskudons and Archei (with zero texts done previously for them). And i sent to you Gizzies.

Very important thing is to run one fully automatic game to see what they bring to the game, and what about normal, non-group characters for that particular race (lets say for Archei and Gizzies you have LPG, but no LPG for Keskudons for example, and there hsould be mention about Normal Keskudons skills/bonuses and about their groups). There wont be LPGs more, so i will need to provide some summary about bonuses, or you will need to run at least one automatic game and see how frequent groups are, which roles they can perform and what they bring (i think we will end with mix of testing/summary)
And i glad to hear it, it's really needed feature, together with GALs lore articles will provide both information on Character system (in hint form) and big immersion enhancement. WB, Cheers :)


< Message edited by Blackstork -- 9/18/2014 11:08:47 AM >

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Post #: 381
RE: [A.6] {WIP} Beyond Extended Universe (DW:U 1.9.5.7) - 9/18/2014 10:15:25 AM   
Blackstork


Posts: 802
Joined: 7/7/2014
Status: offline 		A.61 final announce : (ETA Middle of next week)
1. Minor tunes and fixes based on my testing runs (tune down Paratis abit, very very slight nerf to Dlakars certain ability)
2. Ketarov will get 2nd pass and will have their corporations boosted, extended on more roles, and they wil be balanced into being competitive and inline without losing their Beyond special design. They will get new version of Corporate Nationalism (perhaps renamed slightly) Goverment (as separate new added gvmnt to the game).
3. Ketarov and Naxxilian UI.
4. All 48 race-specific final soundtrack package (finishing full consolidated package) with corrections for Mortalen And Sluken mistakes.
5. Sluken and Boskara CS.
6. Pirate glitch fix.
7. Couple of GALs before/during release.

< Message edited by Blackstork -- 9/18/2014 11:18:56 AM >

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Post #: 382
RE: [A.6] {WIP} Beyond Extended Universe (DW:U 1.9.5.7) - 9/18/2014 1:42:22 PM   
SirFinbar

 

Posts: 33
Joined: 6/3/2014
Status: offline 		So is that construction speed bug fixed in 0.6?

EDIT: Blackstork I've been trying to start an Archei game, this happens:

http://jfgrace.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/sdrfgsdfgsdfgsdfsdf.png

< Message edited by SirFinbar -- 9/18/2014 2:54:09 PM >

(in reply to Blackstork)
Post #: 383
RE: [A.6] {WIP} Beyond Extended Universe (DW:U 1.9.5.7) - 9/18/2014 1:55:53 PM   
Blackstork


Posts: 802
Joined: 7/7/2014
Status: offline 		From AI Mod? Yes, indeed. Now lava planet creatures will build at 1.33x speed at their lava planets but much slower at lets say ocean and ice planets. Some races as Archei/Veey/Napoar function with their special stuff as intended.

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Post #: 384
RE: [A.6] {WIP} Beyond Extended Universe (DW:U 1.9.5.7) - 9/18/2014 1:57:41 PM   
Blackstork


Posts: 802
Joined: 7/7/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SirFinbar

So is that construction speed bug fixed in 0.6?

EDIT: Blackstork I've been trying to start an Archei game, this happens:

http://jfgrace.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/sdrfgsdfgsdfgsdfsdf.png


I mentioned htis in Big Big letters with red mark (check main post NOTA BENE remark.
Try start game again and all will work ok. It's glitch. I do not know its orgigin , but it happens sometimes... At occassion.
Just try again and it will work (without restarting the game) (i refered to it in A,61 patchnotes as Pirate glitch fix)


< Message edited by Blackstork -- 9/18/2014 2:58:40 PM >

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Post #: 385
RE: [A.6] {WIP} Beyond Extended Universe (DW:U 1.9.5.7) - 9/18/2014 1:58:28 PM   
SirFinbar

 

Posts: 33
Joined: 6/3/2014
Status: offline 		I have restarted about 10 times dude. I'll keep trying.

Edit: It works! Sorry

< Message edited by SirFinbar -- 9/18/2014 3:00:04 PM >

(in reply to Blackstork)
Post #: 386
RE: [A.6] {WIP} Beyond Extended Universe (DW:U 1.9.5.7) - 9/18/2014 2:00:02 PM   
Blackstork


Posts: 802
Joined: 7/7/2014
Status: offline 		EDIT: TOLD YA!
cool. I will try to dig this dam thing in A.61

< Message edited by Blackstork -- 9/18/2014 3:00:50 PM >

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Post #: 387
RE: [A.6] {WIP} Beyond Extended Universe (DW:U 1.9.5.7) - 9/18/2014 7:20:23 PM   
Blackstork


Posts: 802
Joined: 7/7/2014
Status: offline 		Small announce: There good news and more stuff coming at a.61 .. There will be new racial pedia entry design including more art formatting, edited enhanced and detailed race lore articles by SirFinbar (I also happy to add his name to mod dev team list as writer,creator and redactor!) including character system hints on race base CS, and detailed group-specific lore articles on each of special groups within particular race character system. The AI mod information about weapon focus and design focus, as well as Alliance allegiance will be represented in graphic art pictograms string of 3 for each race at end of entry)

< Message edited by Blackstork -- 9/18/2014 8:27:42 PM >

(in reply to Blackstork)
Post #: 388
RE: [A.6] {WIP} Beyond Extended Universe (DW:U 1.9.5.7) - 9/18/2014 7:37:42 PM   
Hawkeye_BF


Posts: 78
Joined: 1/20/2014
From: Austria
Status: offline 		Hmmm great new feeling.
Unfortunately I'am not able to install the new Soundtrack
I made it exactly like discribed but it doesn't work.
And if I remove the content of sounds/music in main game folder, the game do not start...

(in reply to Blackstork)
Post #: 389
RE: [A.6] {WIP} Beyond Extended Universe (DW:U 1.9.5.7) - 9/18/2014 8:34:58 PM   
Blackstork


Posts: 802
Joined: 7/7/2014
Status: offline 		Sorry that its not still transparent to some people how to install soundtrack. I will edit guide later more and will make even more clear. Seems you still did not it right.
1. Please don't touch main game music. My instruction was to clean mod soundtrack folder. I hope you can recover what you deleted.
2. All you need is to copy "sounds" folder from both your race folder and its alliance folder located in soundtrack pack into mods folder (Into Distant Worlds Universe/Customization/Beyond Extended Universe Alpha.
3 I requested music folder indexing few times from devs I hope they will implement it soon. Alas what mod have is best structure possible.

Again - Sounds folder from race(Races/YourRace folder) and Sounds folder from Alliance(Alliances/YourRacesAlliance folder), into Beyond Extended Universe Alpha.

< Message edited by Blackstork -- 9/18/2014 9:53:20 PM >

_____________________________

Alien Immersion (WIP) : http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3651979
Beyond Extended Universe (WIP): http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3657646

(in reply to Hawkeye_BF)
Post #: 390
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