mind_messing
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns
quote:
ORIGINAL: mind_messing
Someone having different views from you does not make them an idiot.
Wasn't the entire effort to break away driven by the lefts anger over a conservative government in London? I could perhaps understand the Scotts wanting to break away due to national pride or heritage reasons, but being unwilling to live with election results strikes me as a little immature and given the damage it could potentially have caused the Scottish economy had the EU refused them entry, then it would have been a pretty dumb thing to do.
In a free society you spend your energy to change future elections by swaying those who disagree with you to your side. Throwing a tantrum and leaving that society is anything but an intelligent response.
I know very little about the political infighting that lead to the effort to break away, but one news commentator here in the US phrased it like this, “Scotts hate conservatives, in fact they hate them so much they want to leave the UK.” Obviously given the outcome of the election the commentator was speaking out of her ass, but the impression give to us in the US was the left was angry and they didn’t like the fact a conservative government was in power.
Jim
Again, it's Scots, not Scotts...
It's complicated.
It's not so much as "Scots hate conservatives" (though that is a factor), it's "Scots hate a system of government that tends to marginalize them". Scotland has always been a staunch supporter of the left, while England tends to swing between Labour and the Conservatives.
The bare bones of it is that Scotland votes Labour, but it doesn't matter because it's the English vote that decides it. Yes, that's how representitive democracy works, but over the years it has led to Scotland being a giant rotten burough for the Labour Party and leading the main political parties to focus their efforts towards winning key swing seats in England - not ideal for Scotland.
"Scots hate conservatives" is also true, thanks to the memory of Thatcher. If you're working class and over a certain age in Scotland, you hold that woman (and the Conservative Party) responsible for the wholesale demolition of lives.
On top of that, there's the fact that the three main parties play what is refered to in Glasgow as "London politics" - ignore the electorate that voted them into power and do their best to serve the "monied interests" in the City of London.
In short, Scotland votes mostly for Party A. England sometimes votes for Party A, or for Party B. Scotland really doesn't Party B and never ever votes for them. Scottish people get annoyed when Scotland votes for Party A but gets stuck with Party B in government.
Disclamer: this is an absurdly simplified version of the reasons behind the independence movement.
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ORIGINAL: Chris H
This is true. A very much unpublished fact is the English are not too enamoured with the SNP (Scottish Nationalist Party) particularly their view on what they refer to as the 'English Establishment' in London and that it is not democratic because they are no conservative MPs in Scotland.
They never mention the fact that the other major political party in the UK, the Labour party, has huge support in Scotland and it is often that vote that makes the difference between a Conservative led government and a Labour one. We do not directly elect the Prime Minister (PM), whoever is leading the party at the time of the election becomes the PM and in the previous government this was Tony Blair with Gordon Brown, a Scot, as his deputy. When Blair resigned we got Brown and to many English this was not acceptable, not because he was Scotsman but because he was not leader at the election. A few held the other view which is actually no different to the SNPs undemocratic view that about the 'English establishment'.
That's not actually the case. Scotland has decided two elections since 1945 - it's far from politically relevent and even less so considering it's previous staunch support towards Labour - "why bother making an effort for Scottish votes, they'll vote Labour regardless".
Granted, Scottish MP's make a Labour victory easier, but a General Election will never be decided in Scotland.
This vote seems to have changed politics in a major way, however. Here in Glasgow one gets the impression that the old political loyalties are shifting. I think you could very well see a big SNP victory
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ORIGINAL: JeffK
From the heart, and my long lost ancestors coming from Beith, I hoped for a resounding yes vote.
But in reality it would be a disaster for Scotland and a bloody pain for the remainder of the UK.
I would like to see the UK start to make some of the changes that would allow this for Scotland, Wales and Nthn Ireland in 20-30 years.
Mind messing, can you explain why Glasgow was in the YES camp but Edinburgh massively in the NO?? I also thought there would be more support for YES in the rural electorates?
WARSPITE
What I mean for example are things like:
- What countries makes up the British Isles? (Geographic) TWO, Eire & UK
- How many countries in Great Britain? 3/4
- What countries make up the United Kingdom? Its The United Kingdom of Great Britain & Nthn Ireland, ONE.
- What is the status of the four Home Nation countries? E.g. Kingdom, Principality and Province. Occupied territories.
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Mind messing, can you explain why Glasgow was in the YES camp but Edinburgh massively in the NO?? I also thought there would be more support for YES in the rural electorates?
As for Glasgow versus Edinburgh, Glasgow is a working class city (with some serious social problems) whereas Edinburgh is slightly more up-market kinda city. Edinburgh is happy with the status quo. Glasgow...not so much...
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RE: OT: Independence - 
It's also a beautiful city. There's also four (not three) syllables in Edinburgh. Hope that helps.
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