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The Four Horsemen and Satellite Intel

 
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The Four Horsemen and Satellite Intel - 11/8/2014 1:15:52 PM   
Jdegani

 

Posts: 12
Joined: 3/21/2014
Status: offline 		Hi everyone,

I feel like I must be missing something important regarding satellite intel and wondered if you had any advice. I'm trying to play through the Four Horsemen scenario. I'm having no luck at all figuring out where in the world the surface group is I'm trying to attack. Every time a satellite passes by the estimated positions of each ship change by as much as 600nm. I know there should be some uncertainty in position, especially after a satellite leaves the area, but given the huge changes I can't even figure out which direction to travel.

As an example, when the scenario starts, a satellite passes and indicates to me that the surface group is assembled about 90nm SE of iceland. Add another pass and the group is suddenly 230nm SE. The third pass leaves ships spread out over 500nm of ocean including several ships that appear to be sailing on the middle of England. Every satellite pass leads to changing ship positions and hugely different uncertainty ranges that cause the contacts to jump all over the ocean seemingly at random. I attached the scenario start, the easiest way to see what I'm talking about is just to set it to a high speed and watch the contacts jump around the ocean.

Is there some way to combat this? Do I need to be doing something different with the satellite intel in order to actually fix a position of the surface fleet so I can sneak up on it?

Thanks! I appreciate the help.

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RE: The Four Horsemen and Satellite Intel - 11/8/2014 6:27:31 PM   
ezrk

 

Posts: 1
Joined: 11/8/2014
Status: offline 		I have also found this to be the case in this scenario, it almost appears at times that the satellite location zone don't even overlap...They also don't seem to update when you get sonar information.

(in reply to Jdegani)
Post #: 2
RE: The Four Horsemen and Satellite Intel - 11/9/2014 2:55:58 AM   
Jdegani

 

Posts: 12
Joined: 3/21/2014
Status: offline 		I would have anticipated the ship positions would become more precise as multiple satellites passed over, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

(in reply to ezrk)
Post #: 3
RE: The Four Horsemen and Satellite Intel - 11/9/2014 5:39:45 AM   
76mm


Posts: 4688
Joined: 5/2/2004
From: Washington, DC
Status: offline 		I had the same problem, never found the surface group, and every pass of the satellites showed vessels in completely different locations. Very confusing...

(in reply to Jdegani)
Post #: 4
RE: The Four Horsemen and Satellite Intel - 11/9/2014 9:01:27 AM   
Sakai007


Posts: 279
Joined: 3/12/2012
Status: offline 		I haven't played this scen for quite a while, but I remember having the same questions posed here the first time i played it. A lot of the sats that will pass over your battle space only detect ESM type signals. Only 1 or 2 of them have optical systems which are much more accurate for locating a ship. When the ESM sats go over, you will detect them, but all over the map since those systems aren't great at pin pointing a target. Hope this helps. and let me know if this has changed since my last run through.

(in reply to 76mm)
Post #: 5
RE: The Four Horsemen and Satellite Intel - 11/9/2014 11:46:26 PM   
mikmykWS

 

Posts: 11524
Joined: 3/22/2005
Status: offline 		Many of the satellites are ELINT guys and they aren't that precise although some are.

The game is actually cutting you a break. In reality you would have to deal with limited communication links and delays whereas its not enforces here. Maybe one day. Muhahahahahahaa

Mike

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Post #: 6
RE: The Four Horsemen and Satellite Intel - 11/10/2014 3:06:09 AM   
76mm


Posts: 4688
Joined: 5/2/2004
From: Washington, DC
Status: offline
quote:

Many of the satellites are ELINT guys and they aren't that precise although some are.


"Aren't that precise" is kind of an understatement, since the positions shift by hundreds of miles in different directions with every pass of the satellite. How can that kind of "intelligence" be considered useful?

IRL I guess it might be helpful to know whether some kind of fleet is somewhere in the North Sea, but if you already know that, as in this scenario, what is the point of using such satellites?

(in reply to mikmykWS)
Post #: 7
RE: The Four Horsemen and Satellite Intel - 11/10/2014 5:52:25 AM   
Pergite!

 

Posts: 546
Joined: 6/7/2006
From: The temperate climate zone
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: 76mm

quote:

Many of the satellites are ELINT guys and they aren't that precise although some are.


"Aren't that precise" is kind of an understatement, since the positions shift by hundreds of miles in different directions with every pass of the satellite. How can that kind of "intelligence" be considered useful?

IRL I guess it might be helpful to know whether some kind of fleet is somewhere in the North Sea, but if you already know that, as in this scenario, what is the point of using such satellites?


I believe the current in game ELINT satellites could be improved and should not be any more imprecise than other airborne platforms as long as they actually pick up the transmission.

It works fine with EPIRBs, and they transmitt with a lot less power than any radar.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distress_radiobeacon


< Message edited by Pergite! -- 11/10/2014 7:11:42 AM >

(in reply to 76mm)
Post #: 8
RE: The Four Horsemen and Satellite Intel - 11/10/2014 11:59:58 AM   
scottb613


Posts: 186
Joined: 8/9/2014
Status: offline 		Hi Folks,

I can't speak intelligently on satellites - but - ESM from a submarine - you can DF a signal pretty close to the actual bearing...

Regards,
Scott

< Message edited by scottb613 -- 11/10/2014 1:00:22 PM >

(in reply to Pergite!)
Post #: 9
RE: The Four Horsemen and Satellite Intel - 11/10/2014 9:16:40 PM   
mikmykWS

 

Posts: 11524
Joined: 3/22/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: 76mm

quote:

Many of the satellites are ELINT guys and they aren't that precise although some are.


"Aren't that precise" is kind of an understatement, since the positions shift by hundreds of miles in different directions with every pass of the satellite. How can that kind of "intelligence" be considered useful?

IRL I guess it might be helpful to know whether some kind of fleet is somewhere in the North Sea, but if you already know that, as in this scenario, what is the point of using such satellites?


If you play this scenario you should eventually get a close enough pass to get very good data.

Thanks

_____________________________


(in reply to 76mm)
Post #: 10
RE: The Four Horsemen and Satellite Intel - 11/10/2014 9:22:22 PM   
mikmykWS

 

Posts: 11524
Joined: 3/22/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: scottb613

Hi Folks,

I can't speak intelligently on satellites - but - ESM from a submarine - you can DF a signal pretty close to the actual bearing...

Regards,
Scott



Depends on ranges and positions.

Scott if you've seen something that isn't right please do post to tech support.

Thanks

Mike

_____________________________


(in reply to scottb613)
Post #: 11
RE: The Four Horsemen and Satellite Intel - 11/11/2014 3:03:26 AM   
76mm


Posts: 4688
Joined: 5/2/2004
From: Washington, DC
Status: offline
quote:

If you play this scenario you should eventually get a close enough pass to get very good data.


I did play the scenario, and if I ever did get "very good data" I probably didn't recognize it after the receipt of dozens of reports with misleading data.

So how can I tell which data is "good data", when the next satellite pass will show the surface group a few hundred miles in another direction?

(in reply to mikmykWS)
Post #: 12
RE: The Four Horsemen and Satellite Intel - 11/11/2014 11:10:25 AM   
mikmykWS

 

Posts: 11524
Joined: 3/22/2005
Status: offline 		The uncertainty zones get smaller anf if you get a great pass you will get the icon with ID.

Thanks

Mike

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(in reply to 76mm)
Post #: 13
RE: The Four Horsemen and Satellite Intel - 11/11/2014 11:16:24 AM   
76mm


Posts: 4688
Joined: 5/2/2004
From: Washington, DC
Status: offline 		I don't have a save game at hand, but I'm pretty certain that a few times I got a specific icon/ID for a surface vessel very near (ie, a few nautical miles) my subs, but the subs could not find anything.

I'm certainly not a submarine warfare expert, but it was kind of maddening...

(in reply to mikmykWS)
Post #: 14
RE: The Four Horsemen and Satellite Intel - 11/11/2014 11:27:09 AM   
mikmykWS

 

Posts: 11524
Joined: 3/22/2005
Status: offline 		What was their depth and speed?

Check out D's submarine related addendums inthe manual. Should give some insight.

Mike

_____________________________


(in reply to 76mm)
Post #: 15
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