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RE: 2By3 games of the future - 11/17/2014 3:37:38 PM   
Curtis Lemay


Posts: 12969
Joined: 9/17/2004
From: Houston, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: parusski


quote:

ORIGINAL: charlie0311

MS Warg,

I like you stuff, "epenis" is going to be especially inflammatory. I also like Ann Coulter so maybe I'm the weird one.

Keep it up.


Then add me to the weird list, for I also like Ann Coulter.


How can anyone not like Ann Coulter?

(in reply to parusski)
Post #: 31
RE: 2By3 games of the future - 11/17/2014 4:04:35 PM   
parusski


Posts: 4804
Joined: 5/8/2000
From: Jackson Tn
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay


quote:

ORIGINAL: parusski


quote:

ORIGINAL: charlie0311

MS Warg,

I like you stuff, "epenis" is going to be especially inflammatory. I also like Ann Coulter so maybe I'm the weird one.

Keep it up.


Then add me to the weird list, for I also like Ann Coulter.


How can anyone not like Ann Coulter?


REDACTED REDACTED REDACTED.

< Message edited by parusski -- 11/17/2014 9:46:11 PM >

_____________________________

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(in reply to Curtis Lemay)
Post #: 32
RE: 2By3 games of the future - 11/17/2014 8:23:40 PM   
PipFromSlitherine

 

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Status: offline 		Veering dangerously close to politics. Let's keep OT.

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Post #: 33
RE: 2By3 games of the future - 11/17/2014 10:26:29 PM   
nelmsm1


Posts: 1041
Joined: 1/21/2002
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Well if he continues on I vote for a good going over of Grigsby's Eagle Day to Bombing The Reich!

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Post #: 34
RE: 2By3 games of the future - 11/18/2014 3:33:04 AM   
rhondabrwn


Posts: 2570
Joined: 9/29/2004
From: Snowflake, Arizona
Status: offline 		I like the idea for a WiTP:AE in space game. Despite all the 4X space games out there, none of them come close to including the tactical, operational, and strategic depth of WiTP (and WiTE and WiTW as well for ground battles). I read all these space opera novels and series, but I can't name a single game that will let you experience anything similar to the battles and campaigns described.

The existing space games are fine simulations, but just not in the same class as a good military turn based simulation where each side inputs there moves and then the turn is resolved. Most of the RTS style space games move too fast for a player to really develop and execute strategic plans as opposed to just reacting to events.

I'm not knocking games like Distant Worlds, but it makes my head spin and I feel like a spectator most of the time. Maybe I just need to pause it every 15 seconds to take stock and actually control things rather than relying on automation.

I just want a good turn based WEGO with WiTP levels of detail and complexity.

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Post #: 35
RE: 2By3 games of the future - 11/20/2014 3:26:50 PM   
gexmex

 

Posts: 150
Joined: 11/13/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rhondabrwn

I like the idea for a WiTP:AE in space game. Despite all the 4X space games out there, none of them come close to including the tactical, operational, and strategic depth of WiTP (and WiTE and WiTW as well for ground battles). I read all these space opera novels and series, but I can't name a single game that will let you experience anything similar to the battles and campaigns described.

The existing space games are fine simulations, but just not in the same class as a good military turn based simulation where each side inputs there moves and then the turn is resolved. Most of the RTS style space games move too fast for a player to really develop and execute strategic plans as opposed to just reacting to events.

I'm not knocking games like Distant Worlds, but it makes my head spin and I feel like a spectator most of the time. Maybe I just need to pause it every 15 seconds to take stock and actually control things rather than relying on automation.

I just want a good turn based WEGO with WiTP levels of detail and complexity.


You ought to give Aurora 4x a look. It's a beast, and totally free! :) I think you'll find your WiTP detail there, for sure. For example, in order to construct a new ship design, you have to spend time and money RETOOLING the shipyard in preparation for production. That's once you finish designing one. One does not just simply slap a missile launcher to a hard-point on a ship. One must research and design each component of the missile, from the guidance system to the engines. Then you have to make sure the launcher has the proper fire control systems to talk to the missiles. Then you have to make sure to add magazines to hold said missiles, factories to build them, and facilities to resupply ships that carry them. You can design just about any type of ship you can dream up. There's the usual warships of course (completely designed by you), but then you can design the tankers and cargo ships for underway replenishment. Colony ships to carry all the components necessary to get started on a newly explored planet. There's survey ships that specialize in carrying sensor suites for studying planets or gravitational anomalies, all of which have to be built from the ground up. Privately funded freighters carry cargo between your planets.

And then there's the organization of your forces. Battle groups and fleets commanded by officers who work their way up through the ranks. Ground forces have full OOBs, from the company level all the way up to army. Military academies can be built. Awards for heroism can be created. And on and on it goes.

The learning curve can be extremely steep and gameplay vids/wiki/forum reading is an absolute must. The gui can be difficult to get the hang of, but WiTP's gui isn't a walk in the park either

Sorry for the text block!

http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php


< Message edited by gexmex -- 11/20/2014 4:28:10 PM >

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Post #: 36
RE: 2By3 games of the future - 11/20/2014 4:46:02 PM   
Lecivius


Posts: 4845
Joined: 8/5/2007
From: Denver
Status: offline 		Where does one get this? I found a lot of reviews, and U-tubes, but no game.

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Post #: 37
RE: 2By3 games of the future - 11/20/2014 7:22:12 PM   
gexmex

 

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Joined: 11/13/2008
From: Nashville, TN
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lecivius

Where does one get this? I found a lot of reviews, and U-tubes, but no game.


If you follow the link in my post above it will take you to Aurora's forum where you can download the game and it's updates. There's an "Installation" section that I think covers it. Hope that helps!

(in reply to Lecivius)
Post #: 38
RE: 2By3 games of the future - 11/21/2014 1:05:35 AM   
rhondabrwn


Posts: 2570
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From: Snowflake, Arizona
Status: offline 		Gonna give it a shot... thanks!

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Post #: 39
Aurora 4X - 11/21/2014 7:04:02 AM   
rhondabrwn


Posts: 2570
Joined: 9/29/2004
From: Snowflake, Arizona
Status: offline 		OK, got it downloaded and installed successfully :)

Sadly, no downloadable rules manual for it but did find the Wiki and starting to look through that material.

You were right about the complexity! Wow!

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My old Piczo site seems to be gone, so no more Navajo Nation pics :(

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Post #: 40
RE: Aurora 4X - 11/21/2014 1:08:35 PM   
gexmex

 

Posts: 150
Joined: 11/13/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline 		haha yeah, it's a doozy. This is a superb walkthrough that helped me get going (http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php/topic,5954.0.html), and I believe that it mostly should still apply to the newer version. Been a while since I've played, so I'm not certain. I think it's just one guy who programmed it for fun on the side, so unfortunately there's no collector's editions with color printed out manuals. How magical that would be!!

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Post #: 41
RE: Aurora 4X - 11/21/2014 2:54:45 PM   
Ranger33

 

Posts: 557
Joined: 8/11/2012
Status: offline 		I've tried Aurora before, and while it isn't impossible to learn the game, it does become far too tedious to enjoy, IMO.

I appreciate the effort of the developer, he really does have a LOT of cool and interesting ideas working in the game, but the UI is way too inefficient to handle it all. If memory serves, to design and build even the simplest of ships, you have to click your way through dozens of screens. It makes Dwarf Fortress look like a console game in terms of UI.

(in reply to gexmex)
Post #: 42
RE: Aurora 4X - 11/21/2014 4:46:43 PM   
a7v


Posts: 75
Joined: 3/18/2001
From: Germany
Status: offline 		Well, I like it and have spent many hours playing it. After a while you get used to the interface and honestly, WITPAE and other games also do not have the most userfriendly interfaces

Of course there is a reason that Aurora is often called "Dwarf fortress in space"

It is not for the fainthearted...

Rainer

(in reply to Ranger33)
Post #: 43
RE: Aurora 4X - 11/22/2014 2:48:26 AM   
rhondabrwn


Posts: 2570
Joined: 9/29/2004
From: Snowflake, Arizona
Status: offline 		Well, I have two good tutorials bookmarked and have the game up and running. We'll see how far my ADD allows me to get through this LOL

Thanks again for the heads up on this!

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Far Dareis Mai

My old Piczo site seems to be gone, so no more Navajo Nation pics :(

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Post #: 44
RE: Aurora 4X - 11/22/2014 4:23:34 AM   
gexmex

 

Posts: 150
Joined: 11/13/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline 		Happy to help, hope you enjoy it!

(in reply to rhondabrwn)
Post #: 45
RE: Aurora 4X - 11/22/2014 10:24:26 PM   
Lecivius


Posts: 4845
Joined: 8/5/2007
From: Denver
Status: offline 		It won't let me get to it from Comcast, been trying for days

This page can’t be displayed

•Make sure the web address http://aurora2.pentarch.org is correct.
•Look for the page with your search engine.
•Refresh the page in a few minutes.

(in reply to gexmex)
Post #: 46
RE: Aurora 4X - 11/23/2014 2:34:30 AM   
rhondabrwn


Posts: 2570
Joined: 9/29/2004
From: Snowflake, Arizona
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lecivius

It won't let me get to it from Comcast, been trying for days

This page can’t be displayed

•Make sure the web address http://aurora2.pentarch.org is correct.
•Look for the page with your search engine.
•Refresh the page in a few minutes.



try
http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php

The website does seem to be exceptionally slow, low bandwidth I assume.

_____________________________

Love & Peace,

Far Dareis Mai

My old Piczo site seems to be gone, so no more Navajo Nation pics :(

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Post #: 47
RE: Aurora 4X - 11/23/2014 2:48:29 AM   
Lecivius


Posts: 4845
Joined: 8/5/2007
From: Denver
Status: offline 		Ah well, guess this one is not for me

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Post #: 48
RE: Aurora 4X - 11/24/2014 1:12:03 PM   
gexmex

 

Posts: 150
Joined: 11/13/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline 		It wasn't always so slow...I'm not sure what's up :(

(in reply to Lecivius)
Post #: 49
Battle of the Bulge - 11/25/2014 3:01:35 AM   
rhondabrwn


Posts: 2570
Joined: 9/29/2004
From: Snowflake, Arizona
Status: offline 		Getting back on the main topic...

After viewing the recent WiTW AAR it was painfully obvious that the map and time scales were totally unsuitable for modeling the Battle of the Bulge.

So, it occurred to me today that perhaps the War in the West could be supplemented with individual DLC modules to allow fighting battles like the "Bulge" or, perhaps, "Kursk" on the eastern front. These modules would utilize the existing Order of Battle, game mechanics, etc BUT on an expanded map and with daily turns.

Would this be possible?

Failing that... how about a new game on the Bulge from GG & Company? It was done to death on the board game front decades ago, but there might be room for a computer Renaissance on this topic?

< Message edited by rhondabrwn -- 11/25/2014 4:02:31 AM >

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Far Dareis Mai

My old Piczo site seems to be gone, so no more Navajo Nation pics :(

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Post #: 50
RE: Battle of the Bulge - 11/25/2014 10:38:21 AM   
TulliusDetritus


Posts: 5521
Joined: 4/1/2004
From: The Zone™
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rhondabrwn

Getting back on the main topic...

After viewing the recent WiTW AAR it was painfully obvious that the map and time scales were totally unsuitable for modeling the Battle of the Bulge.

So, it occurred to me today that perhaps the War in the West could be supplemented with individual DLC modules to allow fighting battles like the "Bulge" or, perhaps, "Kursk" on the eastern front. These modules would utilize the existing Order of Battle, game mechanics, etc BUT on an expanded map and with daily turns.

Would this be possible?


The problem is the scale. For example, a key campaign in the Eastern Front (Stalingrad) could not be simulated. The city only covers 2 hexes IIRC.

Kursk, no problem, but still small. In game terms the bulge = 10 hexes from north to south.

In addition, you can put a maximum of 3 counters on one hex: 3 x Divisions (Axis) or 3 x Soviet Rifle Corps (30.000 men each at 100% strength => beasts that easily maul Panzer divisions or anything on their path, especially when backed by the various artillery units ). That's a maximum.

Note: WitW is basically WitE engine (the air operations should be more sophisticated though).

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Post #: 51
RE: Battle of the Bulge - 11/25/2014 8:52:02 PM   
rhondabrwn


Posts: 2570
Joined: 9/29/2004
From: Snowflake, Arizona
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus


quote:

ORIGINAL: rhondabrwn

Getting back on the main topic...

After viewing the recent WiTW AAR it was painfully obvious that the map and time scales were totally unsuitable for modeling the Battle of the Bulge.

So, it occurred to me today that perhaps the War in the West could be supplemented with individual DLC modules to allow fighting battles like the "Bulge" or, perhaps, "Kursk" on the eastern front. These modules would utilize the existing Order of Battle, game mechanics, etc BUT on an expanded map and with daily turns.

Would this be possible?


The problem is the scale. For example, a key campaign in the Eastern Front (Stalingrad) could not be simulated. The city only covers 2 hexes IIRC.

Kursk, no problem, but still small. In game terms the bulge = 10 hexes from north to south.

In addition, you can put a maximum of 3 counters on one hex: 3 x Divisions (Axis) or 3 x Soviet Rifle Corps (30.000 men each at 100% strength => beasts that easily maul Panzer divisions or anything on their path, especially when backed by the various artillery units ). That's a maximum.

Note: WitW is basically WitE engine (the air operations should be more sophisticated though).


That's my point... what if the map scale was changed to make the area of "the Bulge" 30 or even 60 hexes instead of 10. Same for Stalingrad. Obviously stacking rules would have to be adjusted to the new scale. Day turns instead of weekly as well.

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Far Dareis Mai

My old Piczo site seems to be gone, so no more Navajo Nation pics :(

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Post #: 52
RE: Battle of the Bulge - 11/26/2014 1:19:23 PM   
TulliusDetritus


Posts: 5521
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rhondabrwn
That's my point... what if the map scale was changed to make the area of "the Bulge" 30 or even 60 hexes instead of 10. Same for Stalingrad. Obviously stacking rules would have to be adjusted to the new scale. Day turns instead of weekly as well.


This was discussed in the WitE forum. The conclusion was that it was impossible. WitW is the same engine, same scale (1 hex = 10 miles) and weekly turns.

It has to be complicated. If you change the scale then you have to consider the maximum number of counters allowed in each hex AND their maximum size: possibly battalions or companies, who knows.

So in fact it would become more a tactical game (nothing wrong with that). The thing is the engine is operationally oriented (computer handles the tactical thing that is)

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Post #: 53
RE: 2By3 games of the future - 1/20/2015 1:14:18 PM   
Nemo84

 

Posts: 115
Joined: 3/29/2010
Status: offline 		Apologies for resurrecting this old topic, but I came across this post and wanted to add my 2 cents.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rhondabrwn

I like the idea for a WiTP:AE in space game. Despite all the 4X space games out there, none of them come close to including the tactical, operational, and strategic depth of WiTP (and WiTE and WiTW as well for ground battles). I read all these space opera novels and series, but I can't name a single game that will let you experience anything similar to the battles and campaigns described.

The existing space games are fine simulations, but just not in the same class as a good military turn based simulation where each side inputs there moves and then the turn is resolved. Most of the RTS style space games move too fast for a player to really develop and execute strategic plans as opposed to just reacting to events.

I'm not knocking games like Distant Worlds, but it makes my head spin and I feel like a spectator most of the time. Maybe I just need to pause it every 15 seconds to take stock and actually control things rather than relying on automation.

I just want a good turn based WEGO with WiTP levels of detail and complexity.


This is also a game I've been hoping for many years now. Not so much a true 4X title, but something where the player is an intergalactic warlord managing a military campaign over multiple solar systems. It boggles the mind that no one has even tried this before, and it doesn't even need to have the extreme complexity of WitP. I've even sketched out ideas and gameplay mechanics to develop a game like that myself, but despite my programming knowledge I wouldn't know how to even start writing a graphics engine.

And in fact even the existing WitP engine would be well-suited for such a space game. Space war in popular scifi is already heavily based on the pacific theater. Just swap out the naval graphics for space-themed ones: turn islands into planets, aircraft into space fighters, ships into spaceships and LSTs into dropships. It would require some code adjustments, new weapon and unit data and a bunch of scenarios, but it seems to me that a lot of the hard work is already done.

It's such a shame Matrix doesn't put more effort in re-licensing these wargame engines. These things take so much time, money and effort to develop and debug, especially given the complexity of their rulesets, yet they are used once or twice and then the next developer has to start from scratch again. Indie development using third-party assets is the newest rage. I'm sure I wouldn't be the only wargamer here who'd love to try his hand at creating his own spinoff title.

< Message edited by Nemo84 -- 1/20/2015 2:16:08 PM >

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Post #: 54
RE: 2By3 games of the future - 1/20/2015 1:29:26 PM   
mbar


Posts: 492
Joined: 3/17/2010
Status: offline 		I'd like to see WitP redone in this new WitE/W engine. I'm not sure if it would be possible to have the 10 mile hexes so the ground war could be as detailed or if they would have to scale it back up to the 40 mile hexes (AE) or 60 mile hexes (WitP).

(in reply to Nemo84)
Post #: 55
RE: 2By3 games of the future - 1/20/2015 1:35:11 PM   
solops

 

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Joined: 1/31/2002
From: Central Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: nelmsm

Well if he continues on I vote for a good going over of Grigsby's Eagle Day to Bombing The Reich!


+1. I have wanted this game for years, but a couple of flaws that were never patched make it a no-go.


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Post #: 56
RE: 2By3 games of the future - 1/20/2015 4:27:32 PM   
Kuokkanen

 

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Joined: 4/2/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rhondabrwn

I'm not knocking games like Distant Worlds, but it makes my head spin and I feel like a spectator most of the time. Maybe I just need to pause it every 15 seconds to take stock and actually control things rather than relying on automation.

Would it help you any bit if you imagine the "automation" to be your subordinates doing their jobs?

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Post #: 57
RE: 2By3 games of the future - 1/20/2015 4:42:06 PM   
Bamilus


Posts: 973
Joined: 4/30/2010
From: The Old Northwest
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: solops


quote:

ORIGINAL: nelmsm

Well if he continues on I vote for a good going over of Grigsby's Eagle Day to Bombing The Reich!


+1. I have wanted this game for years, but a couple of flaws that were never patched make it a no-go.



War in the West is the new Bombing the Reich. The air game in WITW is far more advanced and refined than BTR. I would still love to see a new Eagle Day/BOB, however.

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Post #: 58
RE: 2By3 games of the future - 1/20/2015 7:25:37 PM   
parusski


Posts: 4804
Joined: 5/8/2000
From: Jackson Tn
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: E


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns


quote:

ORIGINAL: E
Civil War is not in the Grigsby Game cycle... WWII or WWIII/Cold War.


Sure it is:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tt.asp?forumid=484

quote:

Are you aware this is the Matrix Games general discussion area? There is absolutely no room for facts here! This area is reserved for name calling, feuds, politics, European-only sports, slander, libel, misquotes, misdirection, and spam (if you don't believe me, randomly read three or more other threads).


And your point is? That's what makes the general discussion area so high-brow. Reminds me of the Marx Brothers meeting The Three Stooges.

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(in reply to E)
Post #: 59
RE: Aurora 4X - 1/23/2015 1:15:10 AM   
Gilmer


Posts: 1452
Joined: 7/1/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lecivius

It won't let me get to it from Comcast, been trying for days

This page can’t be displayed

•Make sure the web address http://aurora2.pentarch.org is correct.
•Look for the page with your search engine.
•Refresh the page in a few minutes.



I have comcast and it lets me go.

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