A Time To Dance

Matrix Games Forums

Forums Register Login Photo Gallery Member List Search Calendars FAQ

My Profile Inbox Address Book My Subscription My Forums Log Out

A Time To Dance

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Flashpoint Campaigns Series >> After Action Report >> A Time To Dance

Page: [1] 2 next > >>

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

A Time To Dance - 12/21/2013 2:38:49 PM

Bipman

Posts: 124
Joined: 11/5/2010
Status: offline

I keep getting my backside kicked in 'A Time To Dance' and realised my tactics may not be up to scratch

Can anyone recommend a good book (or books) on the subject ?

Bipman

Post #: 1

RE: A Time To Dance - 12/21/2013 4:32:39 PM

loki100

Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: stephen_gray98

I keep getting my backside kicked in 'A Time To Dance' and realised my tactics may not be up to scratch Can anyone recommend a good book (or books) on the subject ?

Bipman

Which side?

With the Soviets the key is to forget WW2 and lead with the tanks not the infantry. Make sure the Rifle Regiment is held back and operate the two tank regiments in support of each other.

With NATO, you are not going to be able to blow the central bridges so what you need is to screen the ones you can blow and expect the major offensive in the middle (but be careful, this AI likes to shift its plans depending on your actions). Beyond that, you want to fight at range, so I'd avoid hold/assault orders as those deny the AI the capacity to react in turn (left to itself it will try to keep your tanks out of the effective range for the T-80s).

Equally with NATO you can plan more around the emerging situation - try to keep a reserve, keep some of your artillery on CB and remember you can often retake what you lose earlier on. You have a cavalry/scout formation so its all about delay and extracting a toll (in time and losses) from the Soviets.

Its also a seriously addictive scenario.

_____________________________

(in reply to Bipman)

Post #: 2

RE: A Time To Dance - 12/21/2013 7:42:28 PM

Bipman

Posts: 124
Joined: 11/5/2010
Status: offline

As NATO. Thanks for the tips ! I started the scenario thinking it would be easy but no way ! As you say, a very addictive scenario.

Bipman

(in reply to loki100)

Post #: 3

RE: A Time To Dance - 12/21/2013 8:17:39 PM

Mad Russian

Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline

As NATO, be afraid. Be very afraid.

Because if you are afraid you are cautious.

If you're not cautious the Soviets will eat you for lunch. Oh, right, you already found out about that.

I put units on screen until I get to the point that I don't want them to have something. Then I put the ACR on hold.

The big equalizer is missing here, there is no US artillery to pull your fat from the fire. That means you have to win by maneuver. Hit and run. Keep costing them units. Set up kill zones near Victory Locations(VL) and catch the Russians as they move toward it.

Good Hunting.

MR

< Message edited by Mad Russian -- 12/28/2013 3:11:07 PM >

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Bipman)

Post #: 4

RE: A Time To Dance - 12/21/2013 8:28:51 PM

cbelva

Posts: 1843
Joined: 3/26/2005
Status: offline

When fighting the Soviets as NATO (especially as the Ami) distance is your friend. You guns are more accurate at a distance than the Soviets. If you allow the Soviets to get close you are in trouble.

(in reply to Mad Russian)

Post #: 5

RE: A Time To Dance - 12/22/2013 6:11:43 AM

Bipman

Posts: 124
Joined: 11/5/2010
Status: offline

Thanks everyone ! I'll give it a go and see if I can win for a change !

Bipman

(in reply to cbelva)

Post #: 6

RE: A Time To Dance - 12/22/2013 4:33:18 PM

LittleDogmaOne

Posts: 159
Joined: 1/28/2008
From: Maryland
Status: offline

To give you some idea

Yellow star: Blow bridge successfully
Black Star: Blow bridge failed, and abandoned

Red arrow line: Soviet
Green arrow line: NATO

Contested battle, but NATO made them to pay heavily.

Attachment (1)

(in reply to Bipman)

Post #: 7

RE: A Time To Dance - 12/22/2013 4:35:20 PM

LittleDogmaOne

Posts: 159
Joined: 1/28/2008
From: Maryland
Status: offline

You can do it, and try to duplicate my battle plan or modify it to suit your need or goal : ) Good luck, commander.

* Your force has claimed 7 Recce, 44 Tank, 36 APC, 27 Inf, 6 SP AT, 10 HQ and 9 AD enemy subunits.

* Remaining force tally -
Active: 38 Recce, 15 Tank, 1 APC, 8 HQ, 3 AD and 3 SP Arty.
Fallen out: 1 Recce, 5 Tank and 1 APC.
Destroyed: 1 Recce and 3 Tank.

(in reply to LittleDogmaOne)

Post #: 8

RE: A Time To Dance - 12/22/2013 5:16:59 PM

Bipman

Posts: 124
Joined: 11/5/2010
Status: offline

I had the Soviet forces go the same way but I sent my recce units out to see where they were and lost a lot more tanks. There doesn't seem any way of engaging the enemy tanks at a decent distance or am I missing something ? When I re-tried today I got a better result when I stopped running in like the cavalry

so am slowly getting there.

Bipman

(in reply to LittleDogmaOne)

Post #: 9

RE: A Time To Dance - 12/22/2013 7:07:51 PM

Mad Russian

Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline

Rushing forward where angels fear to tread teaches you in rapid fashion why angels feared to thread there!

Good Hunting.

MR

_____________________________

(in reply to Bipman)

Post #: 10

RE: A Time To Dance - 12/27/2013 12:31:19 AM

ultradave

Posts: 1355
Joined: 8/20/2013
Status: offline

It's hard to get any range in this one without giving up too may points. I managed a Contested Battle, with about 43% of my force remaining, and 47% victory points. Two companies of Soviet tanks appeared in the last 15 minutes and assaulted Worbach destroying 2 sections of Bradleys defending it, or I probably would have done better. It's a tough defense. And with no artillery besides the 4.2" mortars, it makes it hard to break up the Soviet onslaught.

Notice the large number of little grave markers in the center and also around the river crossing with the HMMVs sitting on it.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by ultradave -- 12/27/2013 9:37:08 PM >

_____________________________

----------------
Dave A.
"When the Boogeyman goes to sleep he checks his closet for paratroopers"

(in reply to Mad Russian)

Post #: 11

RE: A Time To Dance - 12/27/2013 3:50:14 AM

CapnDarwin

Posts: 8467
Joined: 2/12/2005
From: Newark, OH
Status: offline

Smoke can be your friend.

_____________________________

OTS is looking forward to Southern Storm getting released!

Cap'n Darwin aka Jim Snyder
On Target Simulations LLC

(in reply to ultradave)

Post #: 12

RE: A Time To Dance - 12/27/2013 4:05:39 AM

Mad Russian

Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline

When you post a reply that you want to add a screen shot in go to the POST REPLY tab and open that. It's in orange and just to the upper left of the main fast reply window you probably typed your post in.

To add a screen shot after you have already posted, select edit. When the edit screen opens go to the bottom where it says, "No change in picture embedding" and select the pull down screen from the arrow on the right. Then select "Embed Picture in Post". Once you've done that put your cursor over the Upload More Files to the left of that menu box. Click on it and then go to your hard drive to select the jpg "ONLY" on your hard drive and attach it.

Once you do it one time it's second nature.

Good Hunting.

MR

_____________________________

(in reply to CapnDarwin)

Post #: 13

RE: A Time To Dance - 12/27/2013 8:33:38 PM

ultradave

Posts: 1355
Joined: 8/20/2013
Status: offline

It worked! Thanks much. Now my words make a little more sense.

_____________________________

----------------
Dave A.
"When the Boogeyman goes to sleep he checks his closet for paratroopers"

(in reply to Mad Russian)

Post #: 14

RE: A Time To Dance - 12/27/2013 10:32:57 PM

CapnDarwin

Posts: 8467
Joined: 2/12/2005
From: Newark, OH
Status: offline

ultradave, you need to blow some of the bridges to halt the advance or you will get swarmed as you did. You can usually get 3 of them and then work to deny crossing of the open one in the middle until they push across or bridge it themselves.

_____________________________

OTS is looking forward to Southern Storm getting released!

Cap'n Darwin aka Jim Snyder
On Target Simulations LLC

(in reply to ultradave)

Post #: 15

RE: A Time To Dance - 12/28/2013 12:34:36 AM

ultradave

Posts: 1355
Joined: 8/20/2013
Status: offline

Don't I know it. I need to try again. When I did try to blow bridges it gave me times for after the scenario ended. (like 1615)

++++++++++++
Update - I'm an idiot. It was telling me the hex number, but when I read something like "blow bridge between 1615..." I read that as time of day.

You'd think I'd do better since back in the day I trained every day for this to happen ( ex-CPT US Army )

I'm playing it again and the only bridge I blew was the southern most one at the curve of the river. (The one you can start next to.)

< Message edited by ultradave -- 12/28/2013 1:55:33 PM >

_____________________________

----------------
Dave A.
"When the Boogeyman goes to sleep he checks his closet for paratroopers"

(in reply to CapnDarwin)

Post #: 16

RE: A Time To Dance - 12/28/2013 12:44:22 PM

Bipman

Posts: 124
Joined: 11/5/2010
Status: offline

At long last I didn't completely lose. Thanks for all the ideas guys and the Warsaw Pact lost 70% of their
forces. Just need to get the hang of getting VP's back now.

Bipman

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by stephen_gray98 -- 12/28/2013 1:45:44 PM >

(in reply to ultradave)

Post #: 17

RE: A Time To Dance - 12/28/2013 2:07:42 PM

ultradave

Posts: 1355
Joined: 8/20/2013
Status: offline

Much better result the next time. Only the 2 middle bridges standing and all the Russians bottled up on that bridgehead, down to 30%, so game over. Still just a contested battle, although with one more turn I would have retaken another bridge crossing VP hex (could have walked in).

My forces this time took many less casualties, down to 67%.

On to the next challenge.

_____________________________

----------------
Dave A.
"When the Boogeyman goes to sleep he checks his closet for paratroopers"

(in reply to Bipman)

Post #: 18

RE: A Time To Dance - 12/28/2013 2:16:44 PM

Mad Russian

Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline

Apparently, A Time To Dance has turned out to be a really good training scenario.

As you say, on to the next challenge. Each scenario adds another layer to the game.

Good Hunting.

MR

_____________________________

(in reply to ultradave)

Post #: 19

RE: A Time To Dance - 12/29/2013 1:17:19 AM

ultradave

Posts: 1355
Joined: 8/20/2013
Status: offline

Yes, it's a great challenge for the US side. As the 11ACR, you don't have the firepower to stop the advance, but you can give it quite a bloody nose. If you play it carefully.

I think it points out the uncertainty of what would happen in the opening hours. As much as we trained and trained and simulated and gamed it out back then, you would only get one real chance. Get it wrong and it would look like the first time I played this one. :-)

_____________________________

----------------
Dave A.
"When the Boogeyman goes to sleep he checks his closet for paratroopers"

(in reply to Mad Russian)

Post #: 20

RE: A Time To Dance - 1/11/2014 2:05:48 AM

jenrick

Posts: 55
Joined: 1/10/2014
Status: offline

For this scenario in particular, dropping the correct bridges makes all the difference. The Soviets will attack primarily at the three bridges located to the north of Bad Neustadt. You can drop the bridge at the south side of Bad Neustadt on the start of the game with a recon unit placed there in setup, that limits the Soviet axis of advance to one of the other three bridges. While there are two more bridge, one at Oberstreu and one to the West of Bad Neustadt these are too far out of the way for the Soviet plan. They want to roll straight through Bad Neustadt not detour around the German country side.

Now which bridge to drop next, and how to have your units survive long enough to do it is the important question. The bridge in Heustreu is probably going to be the last bridge the Soviets get to on their primary axis of advance. They have minefields and abatis to cross to get there, and the terrain is urban favoring the defender. This bridge is probably the last one to worry about.

The bridge located on the east side of Bad Neustadt and the bridge immediately north of that one going to be to the ones the Soviets go for. The good news is that you can over watch the approaches to both bridges from the same chunk of terrain, the tree line beginning at 1415 and running NE. Having your Bradley platoon post up in a HOLD stance on this tree line will let them work over any approaching vehicles with their cannons and missiles. The normal maneuver scheme for the WP is to lead with the recon elements which the Bradley can easily handle.

So which bridge do you blow with your one order on T1? The one on the east side of Bad Neustadt. You will be receiving reinforcements consisting of mech infantry among other things. Bad Neustadts urban terrain is infantry terrain. Putting your mech inf company in Hold in Bad Neustadts will more then adequately address any attempt by the WP to force a crossing via bridge building or amphibious vehicles.

The bridge to the NE of Bad Neustadts will then be the primary axis of approach for the WP. This is both good and bad news. There is no terrain handy for a unit to hole up in while trying to blow the bridge. On the other hand the approach to the bridge and bridgehead on the NATO side is a killing field. The first order of business is to get a heavy blocking force into position to prevent the WP from establishing a bridgehead with their lighter recon elements. A M1A1 platoon in Hold located in the tree line works nicely.

Hex 1614 also provides the opportunity for overwatch of the crossing located in Heustreu just in case. However any of the three wooded hexes will work. The terrain provides very good cover, and beautiful arcs of fire. Get tanks into all three as soon as possible in Hold, and let them go to work. Some of your tanks will die, expect it. However the value of all of your tanks is only ~3300. If you don't stop the WP from getting across the river, they will else make that up in VP's. You can afford to loose all your tanks IF you can hold all the VP locations.

Use the mech infantry company you get to fortify Bad Neustadts to prevent a bridging attempt, or a crossing by amphibious units. All of your tanks goes to the tree line. If possible drop smoke in the elevation 1 hexes in front of the tree line. The WP tanks can't engage you through it, but you can certainly engage them.

Done correctly you will stop the WP cold with only moderate losses, leading to a tactical success. Be aggressive about getting into the tree line to stop the Soviets as soon as possible so they can't mass at close range.

-Jenrick

(in reply to ultradave)

Post #: 21

RE: A Time To Dance - 1/13/2014 10:50:10 AM

CiniKo

Posts: 22
Joined: 11/9/2013
Status: offline

Here my screens,

but how to win this scenario?! Game always stops with advice 70%...bla..bla..

LuCa

anw.very nice scenario!

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by CiniKo -- 1/13/2014 11:53:38 AM >

(in reply to jenrick)

Post #: 22

RE: A Time To Dance - 1/13/2014 5:58:22 PM

Enigma6584

Posts: 306
Joined: 9/23/2010
Status: offline

Why is a technical question about how the game works in an AAR thread?

(in reply to CiniKo)

Post #: 23

RE: A Time To Dance - 11/26/2014 10:41:00 PM

HowieWowie

Posts: 80
Joined: 12/2/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline

The first go at this scenario resulted in a crushing defeat for NATO. Then I read this thread and the bridge blowing tactic sounded like a way to stem the flow of the Red forces across the river. Its easy to blow the bridge at Bad Neusdat. I've tried a handful of times to blow the other bridges. I've never been able to blow more than the one bridge at Bad Neusdat. Looking at this thread it would seem that there have been a few updates since the earlier posts a year ago. I'm guessing something might have changed to make this more difficult than it already was. Has anyone succeeded in blowing 3 bridges with 2.06??

(in reply to Enigma6584)

Post #: 24

RE: A Time To Dance - 11/28/2014 4:27:44 AM

Koesj

Posts: 14
Joined: 5/27/2005
Status: offline

Yeah this scenario seems way harder now for NATO. Was EW hindrance ever this asymmetrical too?

e: blowing the bridges outside the one in Bad Neustadt you can put a starting unit right next to is totally impossible. By 5am (turn 1 + half an hour prep time) there's battalions of tanks on the other side already.

e2: oh... there are two versions of the scenario

< Message edited by Koesj -- 11/28/2014 5:37:50 AM >

(in reply to HowieWowie)

Post #: 25

RE: A Time To Dance - 11/28/2014 10:42:14 AM

HowieWowie

Posts: 80
Joined: 12/2/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline

Hey Koesj I didn't realize there were two versions! I'll take a look later and see if I can blow more than one bridge as the original poster was able to do. Otherwise the Reds steamroller over Nato.

(in reply to Koesj)

Post #: 26

RE: A Time To Dance - 11/30/2014 4:31:34 AM

Tim James

Posts: 28
Joined: 3/1/2014
Status: offline

The second version of the scenario is the one you should play as Soviets. In that one, all the bridges are magically blown before the scenario begins!

If anyone has any NATO tips for this with the new aggressive AI, I'm very curious. I feel like there might be a learning experience here, but it's beyond me right now. Maybe just concentrate on the 3000 VP hex west of Bad Neustadt?

(in reply to HowieWowie)

Post #: 27

RE: A Time To Dance - 12/1/2014 12:25:19 AM

budd

Posts: 2972
Joined: 7/4/2009
From: Tacoma
Status: offline

yea its a lot harder as nato now. I played it 7 times now, i have only blown the one bridge you start on, tried doing the others, you just don't make it and just lose your units. I just tried moving around and going for the 3000 Vp but got killed by arty and all the t-80U's. Bringing your abrahams around to the 3000 VP is hard to coordinate and takes a bit to get in a good position. I don't even try for the other bridges now. it's flat out murder, especially with limited orders. I would be interested in anybody's strategy for this scenario under 2.06, i've only managed various levels of defeat

_____________________________

Enjoy when you can, and endure when you must. ~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

"Be Yourself; Everyone else is already taken" ~Oscar Wilde

*I'm in the Wargamer middle ground*
I don't buy all the wargames I want, I just buy more than I need.

(in reply to Tim James)

Post #: 28

RE: A Time To Dance - 12/1/2014 2:04:00 AM

CapnDarwin

Posts: 8467
Joined: 2/12/2005
From: Newark, OH
Status: offline

I take down two bridges in Bad Neustadt(BN) (east first, then move the unit to blow the south bridge). I get my initial forces on the ridgeline overlooking the road from Heustreu to BN. Try to kill as many bad guys as I can and fill in with new forces as they arrive. I get armour on the ridge and mech scout pressing into Heustreu. Use the Mortar to smoke the ridge and scouts and get extra cover to your forces. I start taking that third and remaining wave of reinforcements down St2292 and get into BN to hold it the best I can and keep forces bottled up in the valley pocket. With any luck the north attack gets blunted enough to allow you to counter attack into the 2 VPs at H and at the valley bridge. Having good weather helps. Rain is a killer and you will want to rethink the fight if visibility is poor. Remember to keep you HQs on the move too. The Soviets have some heavy arty in tow.

_____________________________

OTS is looking forward to Southern Storm getting released!

Cap'n Darwin aka Jim Snyder
On Target Simulations LLC

(in reply to budd)

Post #: 29

RE: A Time To Dance - 12/1/2014 2:54:59 AM

budd

Posts: 2972
Joined: 7/4/2009
From: Tacoma
Status: offline

did you run that plan under 2.07? That plan could work IF you get that second bridge, which to this point i have not been able to do. I start a unit on the bridge in BN and that one blows just fine. I move a unit hasty to the second BN bridge and give the order to blow, but between giving the order and the next action time[usually around 30 minutes, which isn't unreasonable given demo prep time] the enemy takes me out every time, and then the ridge isn't as crucial. On limited orders you usually get 1 order,i've got 2 orders once, so your second turn your giving the blow bridge order and thats it. By that time your order cycle is increasing upwards and there inside your loop[they spend the whole game inside your loop].I tried a pretty close variation of that plan early on. You can do some damage from the ridge but if that second bridge is intact they get around you, damn AI

.... I will try again...and again.

_____________________________

(in reply to CapnDarwin)

Post #: 30