Air Combat -what am I doing wrong?

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Air Combat -what am I doing wrong?

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Air Combat -what am I doing wrong? - 12/7/2014 11:09:52 AM

JervisBay

Posts: 34
Joined: 1/1/2012
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Hello, not so much a technical question as a tactical one. In my current and previous games against the AI I am hopeless at establishing air superiority. I try to find his air units to bomb them on the ground but my recon is driven off. I escort my bombers but my fighters run away, faced by huge intercepting forces (weren't intercepts rare in such a large battle space?). A month into Trappenjagd and the LW fighter strength is down 40% and OKW are tired of requests for replacements. I always wait until units are at 100% readiness before using them and leave intercept/retreat settings at default and I don't over-stack. I recall a similar lack of success with fighter units playing as Soviets so I think there must be something I am doing wrong. The LW ends up grounded by mid-42 which seems far too early. What type of air units do other players find best for recon and airfield attack? Do you not escort bombers and leave JG units to carry out intercepts in the opposing phase? Any tips or suggestions would be welcome. Thanks.

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RE: Air Combat - 12/16/2014 6:14:35 PM

JervisBay

Posts: 34
Joined: 1/1/2012
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I'll reply to my own post ... I've run through another game vs the AI and despite nurturing the fighters as much as possible the Axis loss ratio is worse than 1:1. I only end up defeating the soviet fighters by overrunning them on the ground. The problem may be that the soviet fighter units are large and achieve what seems to be a high level of intercepts with multiple units, so when caught, the axis units are trashed.

I feel I must be missing some obvious tactic or setting here. Loss levels for divebombers and level bombers seem more reasonable.

On a parallel issue, I've noticed that the AI always knows if your naval units leave port and unerringly heads towards them. Once contact is made the weaker axis naval units are invariably destroyed. Should naval units retreat more than one hex, so that re-engagement is harder?

Thanks.

(in reply to JervisBay)

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RE: Air Combat - 12/18/2014 6:32:06 AM

Vic

Posts: 8262
Joined: 5/17/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JervisBay

I'll reply to my own post ... I've run through another game vs the AI and despite nurturing the fighters as much as possible the Axis loss ratio is worse than 1:1. I only end up defeating the soviet fighters by overrunning them on the ground. The problem may be that the soviet fighter units are large and achieve what seems to be a high level of intercepts with multiple units, so when caught, the axis units are trashed.

I feel I must be missing some obvious tactic or setting here. Loss levels for divebombers and level bombers seem more reasonable.

On a parallel issue, I've noticed that the AI always knows if your naval units leave port and unerringly heads towards them. Once contact is made the weaker axis naval units are invariably destroyed. Should naval units retreat more than one hex, so that re-engagement is harder?

Thanks.

Retreating more than 1 hex is an interesting thought. I agree with your sentiment there.

Furthermore you have to realise that enemy fighters are very weak when they are attacked on the airfield they occupy.

It is neccessary for the Luftwaffe to stay on top in the long term to devote quite a part of its resources to finding the airfields of enemy fighters and conducting airstrikes on them.

Also when confronted with large intercepts (probably meaning soviet red airforce has pooled its resources on 1 part of the map) sending along more fighters of your own might well be necc.

best wishes,
Vic

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(in reply to JervisBay)

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RE: Air Combat - 12/18/2014 3:13:11 PM

JervisBay

Posts: 34
Joined: 1/1/2012
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Thanks for that.

I've done a little set of tests, taking the first turn of Trappenjagd in the Crimea. I know by magic rather than recon that there's a soviet fighter unit at Markovka which I'm going to bomb. There's four other soviet fighter units in intercept range. All the soviet units have readiness in the range 66-71, experience 20-22, morale 50. The axis units readiness is 100, exp 55, morale 50, but some have a combat malus (because of overcrowded airfields ?). I pick the best axis units I can. If the embed works it should show the results below. Given the readiness level of the soviet units I would say the intercepts are too frequent and too successful perhaps? So even if I can find the soviet units (no easy task) I have an uphill struggle to bomb them. The intercepts should perhaps not be for all the rounds of combat or not involving the entire intercepting unit, but historically the axis/soviet kill ratio was quite high wasn't it?

Thanks again.

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RE: Air Combat - 12/29/2014 3:28:39 PM

Vic

Posts: 8262
Joined: 5/17/2004
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Hi there,

First of all thanks for the feedback.

I just did two quick test with attacking with the 2 fighter units and a level bomber group. Intercept by 1 other fighter group both times. And scored 2 times about 35 enemy planes destroyed versus 5-10 germans.
Keep in mind that that Marowka airfield is getting also flak coverage from neighbouring Sov army HQs.
Also note the structural dammage effect your attack has on the airfield. In my attacks the airfield went down to 200 structural points (out of a 1000) meaning new max readiness for planes on this airfield is now 20 rdn. And they are thus easy prey next turn. Really.

Most importantly: there is an air attack stack maximum, but this is only towards attacks on land units in that hex. The air war although fought in 1 hex is intended to abstract air battles in the larger region.
Thus there is now limit in the amount of planes you can add to an attack when it considers air-to-air combat. Try attacking with more fighters and bombers to get better results if there are a lot of interceptors close by your target.

Best wishes,
Vic

< Message edited by Vic -- 12/29/2014 4:29:38 PM >

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RE: Air Combat - 1/4/2015 2:31:08 PM

JervisBay

Posts: 34
Joined: 1/1/2012
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Thanks for the info - I had missed the waiver on overstacking in air combat and the issue of structural damage. Does that mean that if you're bombing a normal ground unit you can stack up to the maximum with bombers and then add as many fighter escorts as you like? or is it only if attacking an air unit 'on the ground' that you can ignore stacking?

Very much looking forward to DC3 by the way. Thanks.

(in reply to Vic)

Post #: 6

RE: Air Combat - 1/4/2015 7:31:42 PM

Vic

Posts: 8262
Joined: 5/17/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JervisBay

Thanks for the info - I had missed the waiver on overstacking in air combat and the issue of structural damage. Does that mean that if you're bombing a normal ground unit you can stack up to the maximum with bombers and then add as many fighter escorts as you like? or is it only if attacking an air unit 'on the ground' that you can ignore stacking?

Very much looking forward to DC3 by the way. Thanks.

only air-to-air combat is without stacking limit.
air-to-ground attacks and ground-to-air attacks (flak) use the stacking limit.

So adding a lot of fighters will decrease the bombers effectiveness, but will ensure more safety versus interception for sure.

best wishes,
Vic

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(in reply to JervisBay)

Post #: 7

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