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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> armament stockpiling

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armament stockpiling - 1/16/2015 5:21:47 PM

geofflambert

Posts: 14863
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
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I've never done it. Should I be? My current game is in March of '42, is it too late? All my engineers, HQs and artillery units are set to upgrade, but mostly the combat units are not. I remember someone commenting that it didn't seem to make sense to "upgrade" from 40mm flak to 25mm. I suppose the 25 might be a more effective anti-personnel weapon (if it can be targeted on LCUs).

Could we have a discussion on strategies for this? Do many players do it?

Post #: 1

RE: armament stockpiling - 1/16/2015 5:42:25 PM

Yaab

Posts: 4552
Joined: 11/8/2011
From: Poland
Status: offline

I do.

Some examples:

- stockpile everything, but engineers, and funnel them into the Chinese LCUs in Chungking. Speeds up building of the airfield there.

- stockpile everything, but Chinese rifle squads and engineers, and funnel them into selected Chinese LCUs on the frontline.

-stockpile all Chinese arty types, and slowly release them to US equipped Chinese corps once stockpiles have accumulated.

(in reply to geofflambert)

Post #: 2

RE: armament stockpiling - 1/16/2015 5:49:45 PM

Jim D Burns

Posts: 4013
Joined: 2/25/2002
From: Salida, CA.
Status: offline

While I�m sure the idea behind giving the allies such tiny replacement pools was well intentioned during AE�s development, in actual game play it was a very poor decision in my judgment. The game simply lacks any ability to allow players to see ahead and plan for shortfalls and contingencies in upcoming upgrades so if players aren�t very careful about their replacement pools they can reinforce themselves into dead end canyons.

A good example would be some of the early war squads that see production occur for just 6-12 months or so and then stop. If players allow units to pull the tiny amount of equipment items that arrive out of the pool for these squads then some of their units will never get to upgrade past that item chokepoint unless the unit is first shattered and most of its items destroyed thus making its item stack small enough to upgrade through the chokepoint (assuming you have any items left in to pool to upgrade it with).

So my advice for the allies is to stockpile everything except the large common items that never upgrade like engineers or air support. Only turn off stockpiling for a single turn when you plan to upgrade a unit and then turn it back on after the upgrade completes. You have to micro manage like this as even if you have enough squads to upgrade 8-10 divisions, the engine won�t allow it and will only allow one or two to upgrade. So you may as well do one unit at a time that way the other units that don�t upgrade don�t suck items out of the pools while they wait their turn.

Here�s a screenshot of my pools with the items set to not stockpile filtered to the top of the list. Everything else on the list is set to stockpile. As you can see I recently got 27 Dutch rifle squads stored, so I am now in the process of beginning to upgrade many of my units on map that have 27 militia squads. I also have a single unit that needs 1 militia squad as replacement so I�m going to draw the militia item before I allow that unit to upgrade. That way I don�t need to draw a rifle squad later after the unit upgrades.

Once upgrades are complete I�ll turn stockpiling back on for the Dutch squads and save the replacements for the one or two units I may pull out of the DEI to operate elsewhere. No sense allowing them all to get sucked into the units that are going to die anyway. The other items I leave set to not stockpile all game as they are common items with large production numbers and do not upgrade.

Later in game when all the items I want to upgrade are past the early war stuff, then I can start to turn off stockpiling for more stuff. But until I get everything upgraded I want I leave it on to prevent running into dead end canyons due to shortfalls due to the tiny production numbers. I should also mention I always try and leave at least one decent sized combat unit using the early war stuff. I only upgrade it once the early war pools are depleted.

Jim

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RE: armament stockpiling - 1/16/2015 5:58:05 PM

Yaab

Posts: 4552
Joined: 11/8/2011
From: Poland
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Well, your Support pool is still depleted despite huge production numbers. I guess the sucking sound comes form CONUSA and PH. Stockpiling is one thing, watching the numbers of units set to Replacement On is another thing.

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Post #: 4

RE: armament stockpiling - 1/16/2015 6:05:18 PM

Jim D Burns

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From: Salida, CA.
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Early war allies have abysmal morale, lots of damaged squads and poor experience levels, so getting them fleshed out with support is a priority. Max support give them the best chance to grow morale and repair disablements. It makes no sense to try and manage support, get it into your units as soon as you can.

That said I definitely do not have 'replacements on' turned on for every unit. But all my baseforces and units near the front lines are turned on and they are responsible for the sucking noises right now.

Jim

< Message edited by Jim D Burns -- 1/16/2015 7:13:26 PM >

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RE: armament stockpiling - 1/16/2015 6:19:30 PM

geofflambert

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From: St. Louis
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I hadn't realized that the allied player could do this. When I was Allied (5 or 6 games)I never clicked on those resource/industry buttons for a look around. Duh.

For you tyros out there, Blaise Pascal posited that the universe was infinite in the macro sense but also the micro sense. In other words you could keep improving your microscopes indefinitely and never find the bottom, or the smallest thing. I suppose that doesn't apply to WitP-AE, but you will never live long enough to stop learning things in this crazy game.

(in reply to Jim D Burns)

Post #: 6

RE: armament stockpiling - 1/17/2015 12:29:27 AM

Dili

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Joined: 9/10/2004
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If you are talking about Japanese 40mm to 25mm than it is the Vickers 40mm which should be inferior to the 25mm in rate of fire and have same range or even less, it was a comparatively low velocity gun.

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RE: armament stockpiling - 1/17/2015 9:08:06 PM

rustysi

Posts: 7472
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline

As IJ the only thing I stockpile at the start of the game is mines. I want them on ML's that I want them on, not those coming back to base and loading up when I load fuel. Also as Japan I set all units to upgrade. I usually increase vehicle prodution as this is where many upgrades occur early on and although levels get pretty low at times it doesn't last too long. The other item I notice upgrading early for Japan is the 75mm Mnt guns going to 75mm guns, and there's generally plenty of armament production. Not much of an upgrade but the regular 75's are a bit better. The 40mm to 25mm I let happen as you don't get many 40mm and no more are built, at least not until a new model comes very late in the war. As for later in the game, who knows?

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RE: armament stockpiling - 1/17/2015 9:45:53 PM

Numdydar

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I've gotten into '45 as Japan and never had an issues with devices. Of course if there is a shortage, it really does not matter, since any Allied LCU is so much better by that point anyway. Even with full TOE and everything upgraded, the Allies can pretty much walk over any Japanese LCU that they want

(in reply to rustysi)

Post #: 9

RE: armament stockpiling - 1/18/2015 1:18:21 AM

geofflambert

Posts: 14863
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From: St. Louis
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I really can't get worked up til someone walks on my unit.

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Post #: 10

RE: armament stockpiling - 1/18/2015 4:14:51 AM

Numdydar

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Joined: 2/13/2004
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Well it is hard not to walk on it since it is too small to see it clearly

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Post #: 11

RE: armament stockpiling - 1/18/2015 6:29:59 AM

Yaab

Posts: 4552
Joined: 11/8/2011
From: Poland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns

While I�m sure the idea behind giving the allies such tiny replacement pools was well intentioned during AE�s development, in actual game play it was a very poor decision in my judgment. The game simply lacks any ability to allow players to see ahead and plan for shortfalls and contingencies in upcoming upgrades so if players aren�t very careful about their replacement pools they can reinforce themselves into dead end canyons.

A good example would be some of the early war squads that see production occur for just 6-12 months or so and then stop. If players allow units to pull the tiny amount of equipment items that arrive out of the pool for these squads then some of their units will never get to upgrade past that item chokepoint unless the unit is first shattered and most of its items destroyed thus making its item stack small enough to upgrade through the chokepoint (assuming you have any items left in to pool to upgrade it with).

So my advice for the allies is to stockpile everything except the large common items that never upgrade like engineers or air support. Only turn off stockpiling for a single turn when you plan to upgrade a unit and then turn it back on after the upgrade completes. You have to micro manage like this as even if you have enough squads to upgrade 8-10 divisions, the engine won�t allow it and will only allow one or two to upgrade. So you may as well do one unit at a time that way the other units that don�t upgrade don�t suck items out of the pools while they wait their turn.

Here�s a screenshot of my pools with the items set to not stockpile filtered to the top of the list. Everything else on the list is set to stockpile. As you can see I recently got 27 Dutch rifle squads stored, so I am now in the process of beginning to upgrade many of my units on map that have 27 militia squads. I also have a single unit that needs 1 militia squad as replacement so I�m going to draw the militia item before I allow that unit to upgrade. That way I don�t need to draw a rifle squad later after the unit upgrades.

Once upgrades are complete I�ll turn stockpiling back on for the Dutch squads and save the replacements for the one or two units I may pull out of the DEI to operate elsewhere. No sense allowing them all to get sucked into the units that are going to die anyway. The other items I leave set to not stockpile all game as they are common items with large production numbers and do not upgrade.

Later in game when all the items I want to upgrade are past the early war stuff, then I can start to turn off stockpiling for more stuff. But until I get everything upgraded I want I leave it on to prevent running into dead end canyons due to shortfalls due to the tiny production numbers. I should also mention I always try and leave at least one decent sized combat unit using the early war stuff. I only upgrade it once the early war pools are depleted.

Jim

One huge drawback of stockpiling everything is the disappearing of the "=" sign on LCU screen. Thus, you do not know, if devices in a given unit can be upgraded. Very frustrating.

(in reply to Jim D Burns)

Post #: 12

RE: armament stockpiling - 1/18/2015 10:35:38 AM

Rob Brennan UK

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Joined: 8/24/2002
From: London UK
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As an allied player in several PBEM's please consider the Australian infantry as a very very valuable Item for stockpiling as you dont get very many and if left to its own devices the AI will fill out all you BF units with precious 42 squads while Australian Inf divisions are left using militia for years. ( in 1944 my 1at Australian inf div has its original militia inf ).. Now I manage it properly its mid 42 and nicely upgraded to 42 squads while my BF units and (R) ones never ever upgrade/replace unless I have stockpiling on for vital items.

China I would seriously consider never ever letting the corps get new units as you have a hard enough time trying to supply them as it is. Upgrade by all means but dont make you own supply situation worse by adding mouths to feed.

Early Indian replacements aren't that great either and never ever let the (R) units grow until you have bought them out with PP's .. as bigger units cost a lot more PP's to buy out.

Australian and British tank units will be crying out to get rid of the awful improvised tanks. While Australia gets the Matilda the Brits and Indians do not. IMO upgrade the Aussies to Matildas then turn off upgrades and allow the Brits and Indians to use the initial batch of M3Lee and Valentines. Else you'll tend to get all the Australian ones upgrading 1st as they are smaller. Leaving a lot of useless Matildas in the pools and a lot of Brit armoured brigades using improvised junk for months.

Hope this helps a bit

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Post #: 13

RE: armament stockpiling - 1/18/2015 10:38:57 AM

Yaab

Posts: 4552
Joined: 11/8/2011
From: Poland
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Japan's headache is its economy, Allies' headache are their devices.

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Post #: 14

RE: armament stockpiling - 1/18/2015 12:02:50 PM

Spidery

Posts: 1821
Joined: 10/6/2012
From: Hampshire, UK
Status: offline

For the Japanese player a major limiting issue seems to be supply. To deploy a reinforcement device I think costs supply equal to the load cost. Also, each device deployed in early 1942 will have used about 40 supply in maintenance costs by 1945.

So, may be it is worthwhile stockpiling devices that seem to have low value. Things like the 7.7mm AAMG, the IJA Cavalry Squad. However, it doesn't seem to stop them deploying in reinforcements so the marginal value is pretty minor; whether it is worth the effort of even thinking about it is debatable.

Another one that could be worth stockpiling is Motorized Support; it seems this is often the only part of a unit that prevents it from being air-lifted.

(in reply to geofflambert)

Post #: 15