German accuracy fix!

Matrix Games Forums

Forums Register Login Photo Gallery Member List Search Calendars FAQ

My Profile Inbox Address Book My Subscription My Forums Log Out

German accuracy fix!

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Close Combat Series >> Close Combat - Gateway to Caen >> German accuracy fix!

Page: [1] 2 next > >>

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

German accuracy fix! - 8/26/2014 11:25:34 AM

toni112007

Posts: 8
Joined: 8/26/2014
Status: offline

Hi all.

In one game i had 2 german flaks 88mm and they missed 3 times M4 Shermans before they got destroyed without killing any enemy. How is it possible to miss 3 times on only 300-400 meters? Germans never missed their shot!
Germans should have superior accuracy compared to US one!

I only like how Mg42 accuracy was improved from previous games that big +!

Post #: 1

RE: German accuracy fix! - 8/26/2014 3:55:11 PM

PipFromSlitherine

Posts: 1446
Joined: 6/23/2010
Status: offline

That's right! The Germans never missed. Why, it's how they won the war!!

Cheers

Pip

_____________________________

follow me on Twitter here

(in reply to toni112007)

Post #: 2

RE: German accuracy fix! - 8/26/2014 4:06:30 PM

PztCrackwise

Posts: 50
Joined: 6/7/2014
Status: offline

The OP might have exagerated a bit regarding Germans having awesome accuracy in real life, however, this does not mean that the game has a realistic gun accuracy system.

As mentioned in other threads by a lot of people, the gameplay currently is very random and unrealistic due to the broken gun accuracy (both tanks and ATGs. This is like the biggest issue people have been criticising. Yet developers refuse to acknowledge it as bad design decision and do not plan on fixing it, claiming it is supposed to make game more forgiving and more fun.

(in reply to PipFromSlitherine)

Post #: 3

RE: German accuracy fix! - 8/26/2014 6:23:53 PM

TIK

Posts: 116
Joined: 5/4/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PztCrackwise

The OP might have exagerated a bit regarding Germans having awesome accuracy in real life, however, this does not mean that the game has a realistic gun accuracy system.

As mentioned in other threads by a lot of people, the gameplay currently is very random and unrealistic due to the broken gun accuracy (both tanks and ATGs. This is like the biggest issue people have been criticising. Yet developers refuse to acknowledge it as bad design decision and do not plan on fixing it, claiming it is supposed to make game more forgiving and more fun.

I agree, but I'd like to just point out that this is not the biggest issue people have been criticising. The AI is poor on the big maps and the 2D graphics (though good for 2D) are past their sell by date. Those two issues are what most people criticised at the release of GWTC, and are probably the reasons why there has been a decline in interest since release.

However, realistic gun accuracy is an issue that can be "fixed" pretty easily with a patch, if the rest of the community would prefer it. From my perspective, GWTC is a game, and for the purposes of gameplay the guns need to be a little more accurate. I don't want it to be absolutely 100% that a shell will hit a target, but I'd like it to be more than it is now.

< Message edited by TIK -- 8/26/2014 7:25:07 PM >

_____________________________

I have a Youtube Channel that features Close Combat and Panzer Corps Let's Plays and videos, as well as historical documentaries.

(in reply to PztCrackwise)

Post #: 4

RE: German accuracy fix! - 8/26/2014 8:48:36 PM

toni112007

Posts: 8
Joined: 8/26/2014
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PipFromSlitherine

That's right! The Germans never missed. Why, it's how they won the war!!

I don't want to argue but accuracy has nothing to do with german loss of war. They lost because they ran out of oil, supplies and were outnumbered. Outnumbering almost never happens in GWTC so Germans should have advantage there.

(in reply to PipFromSlitherine)

Post #: 5

RE: German accuracy fix! - 8/27/2014 6:09:34 PM

SteveMcClaire

Posts: 4472
Joined: 11/19/2007
Status: offline

Current accuracy of weapons in-game is the way the game was designed to work.

Players are welcome to mod the accuracy of the weapons and increase the base experience level of their teams if they wish. Both can be done by modding the game data files.

Steve

(in reply to toni112007)

Post #: 6

RE: German accuracy fix! - 9/6/2014 9:26:41 AM

Longnez

Posts: 53
Joined: 1/4/2009
Status: offline

Surprising remark from a administrator who is supposed to, i think, to consider areas for improvement of a great game that lasts over time. I noticed myself the lack of velocity and historical accuracy of the legendary flak 88 mm. 2 direct hits out a Croccodile couldn't overcome him one, 88 mn is being bludgeoned immediately by mortars. I also found that 3 Panzer IV one next to the other, each with their goal scored at 75 mm on a croccodile, didn't come to destroy but were then destroyed all three. There is a lot of gap and i'm surprised that little hand make. The litany is too long and patches and mods are kept waiting in a time of scarcity;-)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PipFromSlitherine

That's right! The Germans never missed. Why, it's how they won the war!!

Cheers

Pip

(in reply to PipFromSlitherine)

Post #: 7

RE: German accuracy fix! - 9/12/2014 3:06:31 PM

Dowly

Posts: 16
Joined: 11/21/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Steve McClaire

Current accuracy of weapons in-game is the way the game was designed to work.

Players are welcome to mod the accuracy of the weapons and increase the base experience level of their teams if they wish. Both can be done by modding the game data files.

Steve

Hey, Steve

Can you answer one small question, how much does the base accuracy figure of a gun add up to the calculation? I see it is set as same for most allied and axis guns (384 IIRC)?

Much appreciated,
Dowly

(in reply to SteveMcClaire)

Post #: 8

RE: German accuracy fix! - 9/12/2014 4:47:55 PM

SteveMcClaire

Posts: 4472
Joined: 11/19/2007
Status: offline

Base accuracy is a significant part of the 'hit' calculations, but for a first shot at the ranges in the game it is usually not the most significant factor for tank / AT guns. Crew experience and suppression / stress (which is effected by team morale) is typically a larger factor. So for a higher first-shot hit chance you can mod team data to increase experience and/or morale.

Steve

(in reply to Dowly)

Post #: 9

RE: German accuracy fix! - 9/14/2014 12:26:05 AM

Troger

Posts: 30
Joined: 8/1/2002
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Longnez

Surprising remark from a administrator who is supposed to, i think, to consider areas for improvement of a great game that lasts over time.

quote:

ORIGINAL: PipFromSlitherine

That's right! The Germans never missed. Why, it's how they won the war!!

Cheers

Pip

I agree Longnez, it is surprising behavior. I guess it's much easier to make some little quip than to actually make a game worth playing.

_____________________________

(in reply to Longnez)

Post #: 10

RE: German accuracy fix! - 9/15/2014 1:24:47 AM

PipFromSlitherine

Posts: 1446
Joined: 6/23/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Troger

quote:

ORIGINAL: Longnez

Surprising remark from a administrator who is supposed to, i think, to consider areas for improvement of a great game that lasts over time.

quote:

ORIGINAL: PipFromSlitherine

That's right! The Germans never missed. Why, it's how they won the war!!

Cheers

Pip

I agree Longnez, it is surprising behavior. I guess it's much easier to make some little quip than to actually make a game worth playing.

It was a quip indeed - specifically to the direct quote that the Germans never missed, which is obviously incorrect. The game mechanics are worked exactly as intended, and Steve and Iain have gone into detail as to why and what the rationales are, as well as pointing out how people can tweak their versions should they desire. The myth of laser-accurate German armour just refuses to die though.

Cheers

Pip

_____________________________

follow me on Twitter here

(in reply to Troger)

Post #: 11

RE: German accuracy fix! - 9/15/2014 2:29:58 AM

Tejszd

Posts: 3437
Joined: 11/17/2007
Status: offline

This person just happened to be playing as the Germans, thus they complained about German accuracy.

There are other threads that complain about all first shots regardless of the side. Kinda sad that Matrix decided to make CC more gamey by not having 1 shot kills as the only reason CC has stayed around all these years has been because many considered it a very realistic game or even a simulation....

Hopefully this gamey trend doesn't continue with the new 3d version that is in the works....

(in reply to PipFromSlitherine)

Post #: 12

RE: German accuracy fix! - 9/15/2014 2:53:15 PM

SteveMcClaire

Posts: 4472
Joined: 11/19/2007
Status: offline

One shot kills have not been removed. They still happen fairly often. The incidence is just somewhat less than in previous versions of the game.

Steve

(in reply to Tejszd)

Post #: 13

RE: German accuracy fix! - 10/11/2014 2:43:34 PM

STIENER

Posts: 857
Joined: 1/7/2001
From: Vancouver, Canada
Status: offline

i have to agree with Tejszd on this one.

(in reply to SteveMcClaire)

Post #: 14

RE: German accuracy fix! - 1/27/2015 2:42:24 PM

toni112007

Posts: 8
Joined: 8/26/2014
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PztCrackwise

The OP might have exagerated a bit regarding Germans having awesome accuracy in real life

I am sorry if I necroing this thread but hit probability with 8.8 L56

100 meters - 100%
500 meters - 100%
1000 meters - 93%
1500 meters - 74%

In this game it feels more like this:

100 meters - 50%
500 meters - 40%
1000 meters - 30%

You can find this info in 8.8 cm Kwk 36 on wikipedia.

BTW Can anyone tell me how can i mod accuracy or has any modder made accuracy fix?

< Message edited by toni112007 -- 1/27/2015 3:43:56 PM >

(in reply to PztCrackwise)

Post #: 15

RE: German accuracy fix! - 1/27/2015 3:43:55 PM

PipFromSlitherine

Posts: 1446
Joined: 6/23/2010
Status: offline

I'm far from an expert, but those would be the ballistic characteristics? They ignore any human factors, which are a major part of the CC combat model.

Cheers

Pip

_____________________________

follow me on Twitter here

(in reply to toni112007)

Post #: 16

RE: German accuracy fix! - 1/27/2015 7:01:34 PM

STIENER

Posts: 857
Joined: 1/7/2001
From: Vancouver, Canada
Status: offline

LOL......we have another player dissatisfied with not being able to hit the broad side of a barn and we still get the same reaction from matrix.
PIP.....by this time in normandy most german elite formations, which we are playing with here, were veterans. the 88 is a formidable weapon. renown for its accuracy and killing power. the veteran german gunners were very good at there trade of killing tanks etc. the stupid gunners were long dead by this time of the war. the germans stopped many large allied tank attacks in normandy with a line of 88 a/t and 88 flak guns in ambush.

were not asking for the world here, but again you guys just plain tell us your not going to fix or upgrade an issue we feel is not correct. gotta love that.

(in reply to PipFromSlitherine)

Post #: 17

RE: German accuracy fix! - 1/27/2015 7:58:06 PM

PipFromSlitherine

Posts: 1446
Joined: 6/23/2010
Status: offline

Changing game balance based on a very small number of vocal players is not a good way to do game development. I appreciate that this issue is something that a group here find frustrating, but the game is working as designed. Again, it is possible to mod the game to play as you desire. Yes, the same reaction - nothing has changed

I would also question your assertion that all the Axis troops in Normandy were elite veterans. Certainly some, perhaps many, were - but given the attrition on the Eastern Front many German units were under-strength and/or poorly manned. I don't want to get into an argument about Normandy force distributions, but the idea (again!) of ubermensh Axis gunners and equipment just doesn't match the observed facts.

Cheers

Pip

_____________________________

follow me on Twitter here

(in reply to STIENER)

Post #: 18

RE: German accuracy fix! - 1/27/2015 8:58:35 PM

STIENER

Posts: 857
Joined: 1/7/2001
From: Vancouver, Canada
Status: offline

thanks for the reply Pip.....yes we wont get into an argument about german troop quality in normandy BUT i dont no what history your reading about normandy but what im reading about the elite formations in the german army in normandy and other theaters, is that they were ubermensh axis gunners and had equipment to go with it. some may have been under strength, men wise, but they were not poorly manned.

cheers

< Message edited by STIENER -- 1/27/2015 10:00:52 PM >

(in reply to PipFromSlitherine)

Post #: 19

RE: German accuracy fix! - 1/27/2015 9:20:03 PM

SteveMcClaire

Posts: 4472
Joined: 11/19/2007
Status: offline

As Pip said, the game design team set the accuracy for weapons to behave the way they wanted.

If /you/ want more accurate weapons, the way to mod the files to get this has been discussed already (increase weapon accuracy, increase team experience and morale levels.)

Steve

(in reply to STIENER)

Post #: 20

RE: German accuracy fix! - 1/27/2015 10:44:33 PM

PztCrackwise

Posts: 50
Joined: 6/7/2014
Status: offline

What I don't understand is, in the previous titles (those before PitF and GtC), nobody ever complained about the accuracy of tank guns or ATGs. They were just fine, better than what we have now.

As the saying goes: If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

(in reply to SteveMcClaire)

Post #: 21

RE: German accuracy fix! - 1/28/2015 10:40:08 AM

toni112007

Posts: 8
Joined: 8/26/2014
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PipFromSlitherine

Changing game balance based on a very small number of vocal players is not a good way to do game development.

Why not keep balance for multiplayer only? I want this game to be realistic or even a sim.
Weren't CC games supposed to be realistic and simulator? Balance is not realistic. War is never balanced. So I say keep balance for multiplayer and keep realism for singleplayer.

(in reply to PipFromSlitherine)

Post #: 22

RE: German accuracy fix! - 1/28/2015 10:43:03 AM

toni112007

Posts: 8
Joined: 8/26/2014
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PipFromSlitherine

I would also question your assertion that all the Axis troops in Normandy were elite veterans. Certainly some, perhaps many, were - but given the attrition on the Eastern Front many German units were under-strength and/or poorly manned. I don't want to get into an argument about Normandy force distributions, but the idea (again!) of ubermensh Axis gunners and equipment just doesn't match the observed facts.

Almost all German troops in Normandy were veterans from eastern front.

(in reply to PipFromSlitherine)

Post #: 23

RE: German accuracy fix! - 1/29/2015 4:18:31 PM

SteveMcClaire

Posts: 4472
Joined: 11/19/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: toni112007

Almost all German troops in Normandy were veterans from eastern front.

'Almost all' is an exaggeration. Some German troops in Normandy were veterans. Some had been guarding the French coast for years. Some were indifferent non-Germans in 'Ost' battalions. Some were Flak troops who had to be 'persuaded' to engage British tanks at gunpoint.

Steve

(in reply to toni112007)

Post #: 24

RE: German accuracy fix! - 1/30/2015 3:08:02 AM

STIENER

Posts: 857
Joined: 1/7/2001
From: Vancouver, Canada
Status: offline

you have gone off on a tangent.

the BG's in GWTC are almost ALL Premier german divisions. they are veterans and should be treated in the game as such. some of these BG's may have been short of man power as stated above [ smaller squads] but they were not ever short of well trained fighting men and an esprit de corps that was second to none... and weapons to match.
if you want to have your few lower quality BG's miss evey shot thats fine. i could almost live with that, but not the veteran BG's.

< Message edited by STIENER -- 1/30/2015 4:15:46 AM >

(in reply to SteveMcClaire)

Post #: 25

RE: German accuracy fix! - 1/30/2015 3:12:02 AM

STIENER

Posts: 857
Joined: 1/7/2001
From: Vancouver, Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PipFromSlitherine

Changing game balance based on a very small number of vocal players is not a good way to do game development.

lets not change anything based on players you never hear from...that makes sense to me......REALLY?

(in reply to STIENER)

Post #: 26

RE: German accuracy fix! - 1/30/2015 1:11:26 PM

toni112007

Posts: 8
Joined: 8/26/2014
Status: offline

They just need to make new CCs more like old CCs.

(in reply to STIENER)

Post #: 27

RE: German accuracy fix! - 1/30/2015 8:27:30 PM

Platoon_Michael

Posts: 1119
Joined: 3/9/2003
Status: offline

Which forum is the most important forum?

This one?

Or the Steam forum?

(in reply to toni112007)

Post #: 28

RE: German accuracy fix! - 1/30/2015 9:05:47 PM

PipFromSlitherine

Posts: 1446
Joined: 6/23/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Platoon_Michael

Which forum is the most important forum?

This one?

Or the Steam forum?

I'm not sure what you are asking? We read and respond to posts in both

Cheers

Pip

_____________________________

follow me on Twitter here

(in reply to Platoon_Michael)

Post #: 29

RE: German accuracy fix! - 2/4/2015 8:47:38 PM

zakblood

Posts: 22687
Joined: 10/4/2012
Status: offline

i was on the beta for this game, and tbh if you never have fired any sort of weapon in real life before of any size and calibre then it hard to express how small things make bigger differences, terrain,heat, humidity and the human factor, fatigue and war time / period, ammo used, date of it, age and conditions of ammo and gun all play a factor into the shot, an hit's v's one time kills is a totally different ball game, that also depends on target, shape, angle, distance, heat, distance to target, ammo used, amount of gun use, wear and tear, fixed or moving target or gun or both, time of day etc etc etc...

1 shot in a hundred if your lucky would be a kill shot, 1 in 10 maybe a hit, with only one out of that 10 even doing damage internally, so to recap 99% missed or didn't cause fatal damage, a hit that took off paint or bent metal was still classed a hit, but saying it did any real damage is another thing, look at kursk, biggest tank battle in history, now looked at in a different light with most tanks being in such a low state of repair that most tanks knocked out suffered with mechanical faults first, and wasn't took out only by enemy fire, a shot might have been the last nail in the coffin, but to say it was the killer blow only, without the terrain, battle use and other damage like poor repair, bad terrain and over use etc is another thing, more were took out by terrain, traps and mines than other tanks and guns...

then again who killed the most men in war, as it wasn't the bullet fired by any side, disease and starvation killed more, and more tank broke down than every got totally destroyed and got re used by all sides, when number used where mentioned in a book i read, it doubled the numbers that were ever built on paper, as so many got knocked out or captured more than once, but didn't get totally destroyed in all but a paper number or name....

(in reply to PipFromSlitherine)

Post #: 30