Matrix Games Forums

 Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

Best gaming representation of real tactics

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [General] >> General Discussion >> Best gaming representation of real tactics Page: [1] 2   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Best gaming representation of real tactics - 2/22/2015 10:19:13 AM   
flibby


Posts: 133
Joined: 5/30/2004
From: Jyvaskla, Mid-Finland
Status: offline 		Which game do you guys think offers the most realistic representation of tactics which are true to life?

The two games I own which are most 'simulation esque' are Combat Mission: Red Thunder and Normandy, and Command Ops by Panther.

Im trying to figure which allows the realistic movement of troops etc. Although they are at differing scales, I think its possible to compare. Part of me feels that CM feels more tactical as you can position troops in covered approaches to FUPs, position support elements and then intricately plan the assault etc.

On the other hand, although Command Ops is more abstract in the sense of not being able to see your actual guys, the results of fires and the main differentiator seems to be the ammount of arty support you can call on, the AI seems much better and less scripted...

What do you fellas think?
Post #: 1
RE: Best gaming representation of real tactics - 2/22/2015 10:27:45 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: flibby

Which game do you guys think offers the most realistic representation of tactics which are true to life?

The two games I own which are most 'simulation esque' are Combat Mission: Red Thunder and Normandy, and Command Ops by Panther.

Im trying to figure which allows the realistic movement of troops etc. Although they are at differing scales, I think its possible to compare. Part of me feels that CM feels more tactical as you can position troops in covered approaches to FUPs, position support elements and then intricately plan the assault etc.

On the other hand, although Command Ops is more abstract in the sense of not being able to see your actual guys, the results of fires and the main differentiator seems to be the ammount of arty support you can call on, the AI seems much better and less scripted...

What do you fellas think?
warspite1

Sorry I have no answer to your question as I only really play strategic games. However, I had to post to say that your avatar always makes me chuckle


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to flibby)
Post #: 2
RE: Best gaming representation of real tactics - 2/22/2015 12:52:13 PM   
wings7


Posts: 4591
Joined: 8/11/2003
From: Phoenix, Arizona
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: flibby

Which game do you guys think offers the most realistic representation of tactics which are true to life?

The two games I own which are most 'simulation esque' are Combat Mission: Red Thunder and Normandy, and Command Ops by Panther.

Im trying to figure which allows the realistic movement of troops etc. Although they are at differing scales, I think its possible to compare. Part of me feels that CM feels more tactical as you can position troops in covered approaches to FUPs, position support elements and then intricately plan the assault etc.

On the other hand, although Command Ops is more abstract in the sense of not being able to see your actual guys, the results of fires and the main differentiator seems to be the ammount of arty support you can call on, the AI seems much better and less scripted...

What do you fellas think?


To me Combat Mission has a realistic movement of troops in the tactical sense. Command Ops, more in the strategical sense, both are excellent games!

Patrick

_____________________________

Please come and join and befriend me at the great Steam portal! There are quite a few Matrix/Slitherine players on Steam! My member page: http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197988402427

(in reply to flibby)
Post #: 3
RE: Best gaming representation of real tactics - 2/22/2015 1:19:47 PM   
altipueri

 

Posts: 869
Joined: 11/14/2009
Status: offline 		Although the Op asked about tactics, my preferences are:

Tactics - Combat Mission
Operational - Command Ops (sadly no longer available); The Operational Art of War
Strategic - Hearts of Iron

I actually prefer the older Combat Mission games to the later ones. Steel Panthers is good fun. So too Advanced Tactics (although it is more operational/strategic; and John Tiller's Campaign Series. I like games with random scenario generators. Even though I don't have time to play any game's included scenarios I just like the infinite replayability of random scenario generators although you have to accept that some times the games are a bit weird.

(in reply to wings7)
Post #: 4
RE: Best gaming representation of real tactics - 2/22/2015 2:21:42 PM   
Ranger33

 

Posts: 557
Joined: 8/11/2012
Status: offline 		I have to echo what others have said. Combat Mission just can't be beat at its detailed depiction of a battlefield at the tactical level. IMO they may have made CMx2 more detailed/complicated than it needed to be, which has led to issues, but that isn't the question.

Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm is at the "grand tactical" level and is very cool.

Command Ops offers a similarly unique experience at the operational level.

I would also throw Command: Modern Air/Naval Ops out there for its depiction of air/naval combat at the tactical level (and operational/strategic, depending on the scenario). You're just looking at simple icons on a map, but there's a ton going on under the hood.

< Message edited by Ranger33 -- 2/22/2015 3:25:41 PM >

(in reply to altipueri)
Post #: 5
RE: Best gaming representation of real tactics - 2/22/2015 2:56:23 PM   
flibby


Posts: 133
Joined: 5/30/2004
From: Jyvaskla, Mid-Finland
Status: offline 		Thanks for the responses guys

I remember CO being referred to as 'grand tactical' but always struggled as, I agree with you guys, it IS more operational..

Has anyone head of or played this game before? http://www.historicalsoftware.com/?page_id=37

Called 'Battle Command' - Seems very very hardcore but i'd like to know if someone else has played it before investiing my hard earned cash

Also if anyone wants a PBEM game of Combat Mission Red Thunder - let me know.

(in reply to Ranger33)
Post #: 6
RE: Best gaming representation of real tactics - 2/22/2015 3:20:53 PM   
zakblood


Posts: 22687
Joined: 10/4/2012
Status: offline 		too hard core in looking and in design, by looks only mind you, never played it, but maps look good, but also not great to have counters on them, as that for me spoils it, should have modelled real tanks into that display asthe cardboard looking counters lets it down, at first it looks like a military sim one, until i saw those

(in reply to flibby)
Post #: 7
RE: Best gaming representation of real tactics - 2/22/2015 3:27:56 PM   
rickier65

 

Posts: 14231
Joined: 4/20/2000
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: flibby

Thanks for the responses guys

I remember CO being referred to as 'grand tactical' but always struggled as, I agree with you guys, it IS more operational..

Has anyone head of or played this game before? http://www.historicalsoftware.com/?page_id=37

Called 'Battle Command' - Seems very very hardcore but i'd like to know if someone else has played it before investiing my hard earned cash

Also if anyone wants a PBEM game of Combat Mission Red Thunder - let me know.


I seem to recall seeing this when it was in development. If it's the one I'm thinking of, I think initially it only had modern battles/equipment and since that isn't my cup of tea, I never tried it. You may still be able to find an older demo version online, though it looks like it's improved quite a lot -- though it did look quite nice even when I saw it.

Rick

(in reply to flibby)
Post #: 8
RE: Best gaming representation of real tactics - 2/22/2015 3:52:45 PM   
Trugrit


Posts: 947
Joined: 7/14/2014
From: North Carolina
Status: offline
For real tactics you would need to trend toward simulations.

I would recommend Sub Command and 688I.

There is a good deal on Amazon now for Naval Combat Pack – PC (three games - about12 bucks)
You need to be careful of your operating system.
This will work on XP which means it will probably work on windows 7.

I’ve never played Fleet Command but I can recommend the sub games.
I’m not a big fan of BVR combat but these sub games are real to the point of being boring.

(in reply to flibby)
Post #: 9
RE: Best gaming representation of real tactics - 2/22/2015 3:58:37 PM   
flibby


Posts: 133
Joined: 5/30/2004
From: Jyvaskla, Mid-Finland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: zakblood

too hard core in looking and in design, by looks only mind you, never played it, but maps look good, but also not great to have counters on them, as that for me spoils it, should have modelled real tanks into that display asthe cardboard looking counters lets it down, at first it looks like a military sim one, until i saw those


Yeah, I think that's one of my downfalls - I want to have the best of both worlds - graphics and realism. It seems to a certain extent that they are mutually exclusive. Aside from perhaps Combat Mission.

(in reply to zakblood)
Post #: 10
RE: Best gaming representation of real tactics - 2/22/2015 4:00:12 PM   
Ostwindflak


Posts: 668
Joined: 1/23/2014
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		I have been playing CM: Black Sea recently, it is a lot of fun. A good modern warfare tactical game.

< Message edited by Ostwindflak -- 2/22/2015 5:00:40 PM >

(in reply to flibby)
Post #: 11
RE: Best gaming representation of real tactics - 2/22/2015 5:59:33 PM   
Kuokkanen

 

Posts: 3545
Joined: 4/2/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: flibby

Called 'Battle Command' - Seems very very hardcore but i'd like to know if someone else has played it before investiing my hard earned cash

I have played it, but I wouldn't call it hardcore...

_____________________________

You know what they say, don't you? About how us MechWarriors are the modern knights, how warfare has become civilized now that we have to abide by conventions and rules of war. Don't believe it.

MekWars

(in reply to flibby)
Post #: 12
RE: Best gaming representation of real tactics - 2/22/2015 7:05:50 PM   
flibby


Posts: 133
Joined: 5/30/2004
From: Jyvaskla, Mid-Finland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Matti Kuokkanen

quote:

ORIGINAL: flibby

Called 'Battle Command' - Seems very very hardcore but i'd like to know if someone else has played it before investiing my hard earned cash

I have played it, but I wouldn't call it hardcore...



Wrong game


(in reply to Kuokkanen)
Post #: 13
RE: Best gaming representation of real tactics - 2/22/2015 7:11:09 PM   
Aurelian

 

Posts: 3916
Joined: 2/26/2007
Status: offline 		Rise of Flight.

_____________________________

If the Earth was flat, cats would of knocked everything off of it long ago.

(in reply to flibby)
Post #: 14
RE: Best gaming representation of real tactics - 2/23/2015 9:55:11 AM   
fvianello


Posts: 534
Joined: 8/6/2002
From: Italy
Status: offline 		Command - Modern Air / Naval Operations

_____________________________

H. Barca,
Surplus Consuls Dispatcher

(in reply to flibby)
Post #: 15
RE: Best gaming representation of real tactics - 2/23/2015 10:43:01 PM   
aaatoysandmore

 

Posts: 2848
Joined: 9/11/2013
Status: offline 		Oh I'd say Panzer Command: Osfront over Combat Mission (better ai too) and there's a new game series Achtung something or other i'd recommend 2nd (now that's your hardcore version).

(in reply to fvianello)
Post #: 16
RE: Best gaming representation of real tactics - 2/24/2015 12:34:15 PM   
Ron

 

Posts: 506
Joined: 6/6/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: flibby

Which game do you guys think offers the most realistic representation of tactics which are true to life?

The two games I own which are most 'simulation esque' are Combat Mission: Red Thunder and Normandy, and Command Ops by Panther.

Im trying to figure which allows the realistic movement of troops etc. Although they are at differing scales, I think its possible to compare. Part of me feels that CM feels more tactical as you can position troops in covered approaches to FUPs, position support elements and then intricately plan the assault etc.

On the other hand, although Command Ops is more abstract in the sense of not being able to see your actual guys, the results of fires and the main differentiator seems to be the ammount of arty support you can call on, the AI seems much better and less scripted...

What do you fellas think?



As mentioned Command Ops, while a great game, is operational in scope, perhaps grand tactical. Combat Mission is the definite leader for realistic tactical play. With the new AI triggers introduced last year with upgrade 3.0, I have had my butt handed to me more than once by the AI; it has advanced exponentially from the original series.

I have not played it for several years, but another serious sim for the modern era is Steel Beasts Pro. It's pricey and requires a lot of dedication, but along with Combat Mission, are the only games in town that attempt to realistically model real life tactics.

(in reply to flibby)
Post #: 17
RE: Best gaming representation of real tactics - 2/24/2015 12:37:02 PM   
z1812


Posts: 1796
Joined: 9/1/2004
Status: offline 		I find that the Combat Mission series offers the best tactical experience.

(in reply to flibby)
Post #: 18
RE: Best gaming representation of real tactics - 2/24/2015 1:59:23 PM   
Kuokkanen

 

Posts: 3545
Joined: 4/2/2004
Status: offline 		Why nobody has mentioned Achtung Panzer: Operation Star yet?

_____________________________

You know what they say, don't you? About how us MechWarriors are the modern knights, how warfare has become civilized now that we have to abide by conventions and rules of war. Don't believe it.

MekWars

(in reply to z1812)
Post #: 19
RE: Best gaming representation of real tactics - 2/24/2015 3:52:00 PM   
gradenko2k

 

Posts: 935
Joined: 12/27/2010
Status: offline 		I thought Unity of Command: Red Turn had a very authentic-feeling depiction of how Deep Battle is supposed to be performed.

I agree with Combat Mission as very realistic for the tactical level.

Achtung Panzer I thought was TOO realistic - there's not enough unit density and too much battle-space for my taste.

(in reply to Kuokkanen)
Post #: 20
RE: Best gaming representation of real tactics - 2/26/2015 3:59:08 AM   
Rebel Yell


Posts: 470
Joined: 6/21/2003
From: The Woodlands, TX USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore

Oh I'd say Panzer Command: Osfront over Combat Mission (better ai too)


You can make an argument vs CMx1, but PCO isn't even in the same zip code with CMx2.

_____________________________

I used to enjoy these forums. So many people that need the green dot now.

(in reply to aaatoysandmore)
Post #: 21
RE: Best gaming representation of real tactics - 2/26/2015 11:04:09 PM   
aaatoysandmore

 

Posts: 2848
Joined: 9/11/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rebel Yell


quote:

ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore

Oh I'd say Panzer Command: Osfront over Combat Mission (better ai too)


You can make an argument vs CMx1, but PCO isn't even in the same zip code with CMx2.


You're riight, It's far BEYOND it.

(in reply to Rebel Yell)
Post #: 22
RE: Best gaming representation of real tactics - 3/7/2015 9:05:56 PM   
operating


Posts: 3158
Joined: 1/19/2013
Status: offline 		My favorite as of late is CTGW, not that difficult a game, however more enjoyable in MP (IMHO). Certainly tactics and strategy are used, a new patch is due out shortly, which includes vast improvements over the original release in all aspects of land, air and naval. Presently the 1.60 beta patch is the best yet. If you are newcomer, the AI more than likely kick your butt. It's certainly an interesting game..

(in reply to flibby)
Post #: 23
RE: Best gaming representation of real tactics - 3/8/2015 12:17:38 AM   
aaatoysandmore

 

Posts: 2848
Joined: 9/11/2013
Status: offline 		CTGW really? A "tactical" game?

(in reply to operating)
Post #: 24
RE: Best gaming representation of real tactics - 3/8/2015 12:51:24 AM   
operating


Posts: 3158
Joined: 1/19/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore

CTGW really? A "tactical" game?

Don't confuse "tactics" with "tactical games". Certainly CTGW is broader than employing company level down to individual units, none-the-less, CTGW utilizes tactics as part of it's overall strategy, that, cannot be denied, much like many of the games marketed today.

(in reply to aaatoysandmore)
Post #: 25
RE: Best gaming representation of real tactics - 3/8/2015 4:38:11 AM   
aaatoysandmore

 

Posts: 2848
Joined: 9/11/2013
Status: offline 		I like this statement of what strategy and tactics are:

quote:

An old boss of mine used to describe the difference between the two to me thus:
"Me strategy. You tactics. Me tell you what to do. You do it". Very clear.


< Message edited by aaatoysandmore -- 3/8/2015 5:38:27 AM >

(in reply to operating)
Post #: 26
RE: Best gaming representation of real tactics - 3/8/2015 8:37:09 AM   
operating


Posts: 3158
Joined: 1/19/2013
Status: offline 		Would you agree: That tactics can change strategy?

(in reply to aaatoysandmore)
Post #: 27
RE: Best gaming representation of real tactics - 3/8/2015 11:41:40 AM   
aaatoysandmore

 

Posts: 2848
Joined: 9/11/2013
Status: offline 		No, I would agree that the "execution" of tactics can change strategy though.

(in reply to operating)
Post #: 28
RE: Best gaming representation of real tactics - 3/8/2015 6:36:15 PM   
operating


Posts: 3158
Joined: 1/19/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore

No, I would agree that the "execution" of tactics can change strategy though.

So let me understand: You would not change strategy before execution of tactics?

(in reply to aaatoysandmore)
Post #: 29
RE: Best gaming representation of real tactics - 3/9/2015 12:50:29 AM   
Jagdtiger14


Posts: 1686
Joined: 1/22/2008
From: Miami Beach
Status: offline 		You ask "game", not "computer game"...so since I am a Grognard and have played war games since the 70's...I'll have to say the #1 tactical war game (including computer games) of all time with absolutely no rival in this category is: Advanced Squad Leader. Within that game system are two very good campaigns: "Red Barricades" (concerning Stalingrad) and "Kampfgruppe Peiper" (concerning Battle of the Bulge).

Computer game wise, I'll vote for the little known game: Sudden Strike II.

I would hope ASL could come to computer, but its so complicated (even more so than World in Flames) that its almost impossible.

_____________________________

Conflict with the unexpected: two qualities are indispensable; first, an intellect which, even in the midst of this obscurity, is not without some traces of inner light which lead to the truth; second, the courage to follow this faint light. KvC

(in reply to operating)
Post #: 30
Page:   [1] 2   next >   >>
All Forums >> [General] >> General Discussion >> Best gaming representation of real tactics Page: [1] 2   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.785