Best gaming representation of real tactics

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flibby -> Best gaming representation of real tactics (2/22/2015 10:19:13 AM)
Which game do you guys think offers the most realistic representation of tactics which are true to life? The two games I own which are most 'simulation esque' are Combat Mission: Red Thunder and Normandy, and Command Ops by Panther. Im trying to figure which allows the realistic movement of troops etc. Although they are at differing scales, I think its possible to compare. Part of me feels that CM feels more tactical as you can position troops in covered approaches to FUPs, position support elements and then intricately plan the assault etc. On the other hand, although Command Ops is more abstract in the sense of not being able to see your actual guys, the results of fires and the main differentiator seems to be the ammount of arty support you can call on, the AI seems much better and less scripted... What do you fellas think?

warspite1 -> RE: Best gaming representation of real tactics (2/22/2015 10:27:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: flibby Which game do you guys think offers the most realistic representation of tactics which are true to life? The two games I own which are most 'simulation esque' are Combat Mission: Red Thunder and Normandy, and Command Ops by Panther. Im trying to figure which allows the realistic movement of troops etc. Although they are at differing scales, I think its possible to compare. Part of me feels that CM feels more tactical as you can position troops in covered approaches to FUPs, position support elements and then intricately plan the assault etc. On the other hand, although Command Ops is more abstract in the sense of not being able to see your actual guys, the results of fires and the main differentiator seems to be the ammount of arty support you can call on, the AI seems much better and less scripted... What do you fellas think? warspite1 Sorry I have no answer to your question as I only really play strategic games. However, I had to post to say that your avatar always makes me chuckle [&o]

wings7 -> RE: Best gaming representation of real tactics (2/22/2015 12:52:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: flibby Which game do you guys think offers the most realistic representation of tactics which are true to life? The two games I own which are most 'simulation esque' are Combat Mission: Red Thunder and Normandy, and Command Ops by Panther. Im trying to figure which allows the realistic movement of troops etc. Although they are at differing scales, I think its possible to compare. Part of me feels that CM feels more tactical as you can position troops in covered approaches to FUPs, position support elements and then intricately plan the assault etc. On the other hand, although Command Ops is more abstract in the sense of not being able to see your actual guys, the results of fires and the main differentiator seems to be the ammount of arty support you can call on, the AI seems much better and less scripted... What do you fellas think? To me Combat Mission has a realistic movement of troops in the tactical sense. Command Ops, more in the strategical sense, both are excellent games! Patrick

altipueri -> RE: Best gaming representation of real tactics (2/22/2015 1:19:47 PM)
Although the Op asked about tactics, my preferences are: Tactics - Combat Mission Operational - Command Ops (sadly no longer available); The Operational Art of War Strategic - Hearts of Iron I actually prefer the older Combat Mission games to the later ones. Steel Panthers is good fun. So too Advanced Tactics (although it is more operational/strategic; and John Tiller's Campaign Series. I like games with random scenario generators. Even though I don't have time to play any game's included scenarios I just like the infinite replayability of random scenario generators although you have to accept that some times the games are a bit weird.

Ranger33 -> RE: Best gaming representation of real tactics (2/22/2015 2:21:42 PM)
I have to echo what others have said. Combat Mission just can't be beat at its detailed depiction of a battlefield at the tactical level. IMO they may have made CMx2 more detailed/complicated than it needed to be, which has led to issues, but that isn't the question. Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm is at the "grand tactical" level and is very cool. Command Ops offers a similarly unique experience at the operational level. I would also throw Command: Modern Air/Naval Ops out there for its depiction of air/naval combat at the tactical level (and operational/strategic, depending on the scenario). You're just looking at simple icons on a map, but there's a ton going on under the hood.

flibby -> RE: Best gaming representation of real tactics (2/22/2015 2:56:23 PM)
Thanks for the responses guys [:)] I remember CO being referred to as 'grand tactical' but always struggled as, I agree with you guys, it IS more operational.. Has anyone head of or played this game before? http://www.historicalsoftware.com/?page_id=37 Called 'Battle Command' - Seems very very hardcore but i'd like to know if someone else has played it before investiing my hard earned cash [:D] Also if anyone wants a PBEM game of Combat Mission Red Thunder - let me know.

zakblood -> RE: Best gaming representation of real tactics (2/22/2015 3:20:53 PM)
too hard core in looking and in design, by looks only mind you, never played it, but maps look good, but also not great to have counters on them, as that for me spoils it, should have modelled real tanks into that display asthe cardboard looking counters lets it down, at first it looks like a military sim one, until i saw those[;)]

rickier65 -> RE: Best gaming representation of real tactics (2/22/2015 3:27:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: flibby Thanks for the responses guys [:)] I remember CO being referred to as 'grand tactical' but always struggled as, I agree with you guys, it IS more operational.. Has anyone head of or played this game before? http://www.historicalsoftware.com/?page_id=37 Called 'Battle Command' - Seems very very hardcore but i'd like to know if someone else has played it before investiing my hard earned cash [:D] Also if anyone wants a PBEM game of Combat Mission Red Thunder - let me know. I seem to recall seeing this when it was in development. If it's the one I'm thinking of, I think initially it only had modern battles/equipment and since that isn't my cup of tea, I never tried it. You may still be able to find an older demo version online, though it looks like it's improved quite a lot -- though it did look quite nice even when I saw it. Rick

Trugrit -> RE: Best gaming representation of real tactics (2/22/2015 3:52:45 PM)
For real tactics you would need to trend toward simulations. I would recommend Sub Command and 688I. There is a good deal on Amazon now for Naval Combat Pack – PC (three games - about12 bucks) You need to be careful of your operating system. This will work on XP which means it will probably work on windows 7. I’ve never played Fleet Command but I can recommend the sub games. I’m not a big fan of BVR combat but these sub games are real to the point of being boring.

flibby -> RE: Best gaming representation of real tactics (2/22/2015 3:58:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: zakblood too hard core in looking and in design, by looks only mind you, never played it, but maps look good, but also not great to have counters on them, as that for me spoils it, should have modelled real tanks into that display asthe cardboard looking counters lets it down, at first it looks like a military sim one, until i saw those[;)] Yeah, I think that's one of my downfalls - I want to have the best of both worlds - graphics and realism. It seems to a certain extent that they are mutually exclusive. Aside from perhaps Combat Mission.

Ostwindflak -> RE: Best gaming representation of real tactics (2/22/2015 4:00:12 PM)
I have been playing CM: Black Sea recently, it is a lot of fun. A good modern warfare tactical game.

Kuokkanen -> RE: Best gaming representation of real tactics (2/22/2015 5:59:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: flibby Called 'Battle Command' - Seems very very hardcore but i'd like to know if someone else has played it before investiing my hard earned cash [:D] I have played it, but I wouldn't call it hardcore...

flibby -> RE: Best gaming representation of real tactics (2/22/2015 7:05:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Matti Kuokkanen quote: ORIGINAL: flibby Called 'Battle Command' - Seems very very hardcore but i'd like to know if someone else has played it before investiing my hard earned cash [:D] I have played it, but I wouldn't call it hardcore... Wrong game [;)] [image]http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-YhhV8dbOqtM/Uzi6GcXTjWI/AAAAAAAALsI/KbhhFNfODNw/s1600/1.jpg[/image]

Aurelian -> RE: Best gaming representation of real tactics (2/22/2015 7:11:09 PM)
Rise of Flight.

fvianello -> RE: Best gaming representation of real tactics (2/23/2015 9:55:11 AM)
Command - Modern Air / Naval Operations

aaatoysandmore -> RE: Best gaming representation of real tactics (2/23/2015 10:43:01 PM)
Oh I'd say Panzer Command: Osfront over Combat Mission (better ai too) and there's a new game series Achtung something or other i'd recommend 2nd (now that's your hardcore version).

Ron -> RE: Best gaming representation of real tactics (2/24/2015 12:34:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: flibby Which game do you guys think offers the most realistic representation of tactics which are true to life? The two games I own which are most 'simulation esque' are Combat Mission: Red Thunder and Normandy, and Command Ops by Panther. Im trying to figure which allows the realistic movement of troops etc. Although they are at differing scales, I think its possible to compare. Part of me feels that CM feels more tactical as you can position troops in covered approaches to FUPs, position support elements and then intricately plan the assault etc. On the other hand, although Command Ops is more abstract in the sense of not being able to see your actual guys, the results of fires and the main differentiator seems to be the ammount of arty support you can call on, the AI seems much better and less scripted... What do you fellas think? As mentioned Command Ops, while a great game, is operational in scope, perhaps grand tactical. Combat Mission is the definite leader for realistic tactical play. With the new AI triggers introduced last year with upgrade 3.0, I have had my butt handed to me more than once by the AI; it has advanced exponentially from the original series. I have not played it for several years, but another serious sim for the modern era is Steel Beasts Pro. It's pricey and requires a lot of dedication, but along with Combat Mission, are the only games in town that attempt to realistically model real life tactics.

z1812 -> RE: Best gaming representation of real tactics (2/24/2015 12:37:02 PM)
I find that the Combat Mission series offers the best tactical experience.

Kuokkanen -> RE: Best gaming representation of real tactics (2/24/2015 1:59:23 PM)
Why nobody has mentioned Achtung Panzer: Operation Star yet?

gradenko2k -> RE: Best gaming representation of real tactics (2/24/2015 3:52:00 PM)
I thought Unity of Command: Red Turn had a very authentic-feeling depiction of how Deep Battle is supposed to be performed. I agree with Combat Mission as very realistic for the tactical level. Achtung Panzer I thought was TOO realistic - there's not enough unit density and too much battle-space for my taste.

Rebel Yell -> RE: Best gaming representation of real tactics (2/26/2015 3:59:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore Oh I'd say Panzer Command: Osfront over Combat Mission (better ai too) You can make an argument vs CMx1, but PCO isn't even in the same zip code with CMx2.

aaatoysandmore -> RE: Best gaming representation of real tactics (2/26/2015 11:04:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rebel Yell quote: ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore Oh I'd say Panzer Command: Osfront over Combat Mission (better ai too) You can make an argument vs CMx1, but PCO isn't even in the same zip code with CMx2. You're riight, It's far BEYOND it. [:D]

operating -> RE: Best gaming representation of real tactics (3/7/2015 9:05:56 PM)
My favorite as of late is CTGW, not that difficult a game, however more enjoyable in MP (IMHO). Certainly tactics and strategy are used, a new patch is due out shortly, which includes vast improvements over the original release in all aspects of land, air and naval. Presently the 1.60 beta patch is the best yet. If you are newcomer, the AI more than likely kick your butt. It's certainly an interesting game..[;)]

aaatoysandmore -> RE: Best gaming representation of real tactics (3/8/2015 12:17:38 AM)
CTGW really? A "tactical" game?

operating -> RE: Best gaming representation of real tactics (3/8/2015 12:51:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore CTGW really? A "tactical" game? Don't confuse "tactics" with "tactical games". Certainly CTGW is broader than employing company level down to individual units, none-the-less, CTGW utilizes tactics as part of it's overall strategy, that, cannot be denied, much like many of the games marketed today.[;)]

aaatoysandmore -> RE: Best gaming representation of real tactics (3/8/2015 4:38:11 AM)
I like this statement of what strategy and tactics are: quote: An old boss of mine used to describe the difference between the two to me thus: "Me strategy. You tactics. Me tell you what to do. You do it". Very clear.

operating -> RE: Best gaming representation of real tactics (3/8/2015 8:37:09 AM)
Would you agree: That tactics can change strategy?[;)]

aaatoysandmore -> RE: Best gaming representation of real tactics (3/8/2015 11:41:40 AM)
No, I would agree that the "execution" of tactics can change strategy though.

operating -> RE: Best gaming representation of real tactics (3/8/2015 6:36:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore No, I would agree that the "execution" of tactics can change strategy though. So let me understand: You would not change strategy before execution of tactics?[&:]

Jagdtiger14 -> RE: Best gaming representation of real tactics (3/9/2015 12:50:29 AM)
You ask "game", not "computer game"...so since I am a Grognard and have played war games since the 70's...I'll have to say the #1 tactical war game (including computer games) of all time with absolutely no rival in this category is: Advanced Squad Leader. Within that game system are two very good campaigns: "Red Barricades" (concerning Stalingrad) and "Kampfgruppe Peiper" (concerning Battle of the Bulge). Computer game wise, I'll vote for the little known game: Sudden Strike II. I would hope ASL could come to computer, but its so complicated (even more so than World in Flames) that its almost impossible.

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