RE: Best gaming representation of real tactics (Full Version)

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aaatoysandmore -> RE: Best gaming representation of real tactics (3/9/2015 2:48:32 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: operating


quote:

ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore

No, I would agree that the "execution" of tactics can change strategy though.

So let me understand: You would not change strategy before execution of tactics?[&:]


No because the strategy comes before the execution of the tactics. So I can't change strategy until the first execution of tactics. [:)]



aaatoysandmore -> RE: Best gaming representation of real tactics (3/9/2015 2:51:43 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jagdtiger14

You ask "game", not "computer game"...so since I am a Grognard and have played war games since the 70's...I'll have to say the #1 tactical war game (including computer games) of all time with absolutely no rival in this category is: Advanced Squad Leader. Within that game system are two very good campaigns: "Red Barricades" (concerning Stalingrad) and "Kampfgruppe Peiper" (concerning Battle of the Bulge).

Computer game wise, I'll vote for the little known game: Sudden Strike II.

I would hope ASL could come to computer, but its so complicated (even more so than World in Flames) that its almost impossible.


Have to agree with you here and the closest game I know right now is Mark Walker's Heroes of Stalingrad game. Looks like and almost feels like Squad Leader to me. Love the maps and the unit resemblance. Of course it's not squad leader but its as close as I've ever seen.



operating -> RE: Best gaming representation of real tactics (3/9/2015 3:04:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore


quote:

ORIGINAL: operating


quote:

ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore

No, I would agree that the "execution" of tactics can change strategy though.

So let me understand: You would not change strategy before execution of tactics?[&:]


No because the strategy comes before the execution of the tactics. So I can't change strategy until the first execution of tactics. [:)]

I realize the/a game has to start somewhere to initialize strategy and tactics, but I am still of the mind that the principles of strategy and tactics will overlap one-another, often from unintended consequences or likely from intended results. Mind you, depending on the game, a "Grand Strategy" and a "Localized Strategy" would be in play.[;)]

Please, I am not an advanced player, and don't pretend to be one, however I am interested in how members approach a scenario.[:)]



aaatoysandmore -> RE: Best gaming representation of real tactics (3/9/2015 3:17:16 PM)

I see strategy as the whole picture of the map and tactics as the deployment and operation of the units allowed. Be they division, company, platoon or squad. The strategy of the operation must be laid out before the operation of the tactics can begin. Planning is strategy, execution of those plans is tactics. Strategy says take that hill as we need it for observation. Tactics of that operation would be how I would take that hill.

I can only see ctgw as a singular operation of strategy because the unit represents a conglomeration of lots of units. There's no tactics in say taking that city as there's only 1 unit at a time to attempt to take that city. Representing thousands of units. I just don't see that as tactical. There's no joe you take point and gonzales you provide cover fire and yahoo you provide support and so n so. That's tactics to me. Ymmv of course. Everyone seems to take a different lite on strategy and tactics and operations and tactical anyways. Most of the people posting in this particular thread though seem to see tatical in a platoon or squad based level. Based on the games mentioned.



Kuokkanen -> RE: Best gaming representation of real tactics (3/9/2015 4:05:07 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jagdtiger14

Computer game wise, I'll vote for the little known game: Sudden Strike II.

An RTS game? Seriously? Is it better than Close Combat series?



operating -> RE: Best gaming representation of real tactics (3/10/2015 2:36:19 AM)


quote:

I can only see ctgw as a singular operation of strategy because the unit represents a conglomeration of lots of units. There's no tactics in say taking that city as there's only 1 unit at a time to attempt to take that city. Representing thousands of units. I just don't see that as tactical. There's no joe you take point and gonzales you provide cover fire and yahoo you provide support and so n so. That's tactics to me. Ymmv of course. Everyone seems to take a different lite on strategy and tactics and operations and tactical anyways. Most of the people posting in this particular thread though seem to see tatical in a platoon or squad based level. Based on the games mentioned.


Sorry, I find your wording ambiguous, I think you mean well, but you keep walking this tactics issue in a direction it does not need to go, some of which I agree with in theory, but to claim that CTGW is a game that does not have tactics, that's where we are diametrically opposed. I made a game suggestion to flibby, So I am going to leave it at that and it's up to flibby to consider the suggestion or not.

Have a nice day[:)]



aaatoysandmore -> RE: Best gaming representation of real tactics (3/10/2015 3:16:48 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: operating


quote:

I can only see ctgw as a singular operation of strategy because the unit represents a conglomeration of lots of units. There's no tactics in say taking that city as there's only 1 unit at a time to attempt to take that city. Representing thousands of units. I just don't see that as tactical. There's no joe you take point and gonzales you provide cover fire and yahoo you provide support and so n so. That's tactics to me. Ymmv of course. Everyone seems to take a different lite on strategy and tactics and operations and tactical anyways. Most of the people posting in this particular thread though seem to see tatical in a platoon or squad based level. Based on the games mentioned.


Sorry, I find your wording ambiguous, I think you mean well, but you keep walking this tactics issue in a direction it does not need to go, some of which I agree with in theory, but to claim that CTGW is a game that does not have tactics, that's where we are diametrically opposed. I made a game suggestion to flibby, So I am going to leave it at that and it's up to flibby to consider the suggestion or not.

Have a nice day[:)]


thas ok I understand there's always one or two that put up operational or strategic games anyways. But, as I said the majority of posters here are putting up tactical type games more so than something like ctgw. Have a nice day of course. I'm sure the OP will find something he likes out of all of these anyways. [:)]
I did take a description of the game on the store page and this is what it has:

Commander - The Great War
Release Date: 12 NOV 2012
Platform: PC
Language: English, German, French, Italian
Genre: Strategic
Turns: Turn-Based IGOUGO
Complexity: Intermediate
Period: World War I



operating -> RE: Best gaming representation of real tactics (3/10/2015 3:48:10 AM)

Maybe you should have dug down a little more into the information about the game, there you will find "Tactical Decisions". I'm so glad you are interested in the game, "makes my day".[;)]


Click here for the official product page.



Check out the intro trailer for the game here!



Description:

This is the war that ended peace, in a continent where great leaders had to lead their countries to victory at all cost. And you are that leader.

Commander The Great War is a turn-based strategy game that captures this time of war with unprecedented realism and accuracy. A huge-hex based campaign map that stretches from the USA in the west, Africa and Arabia to the south, Scandinavia to the north and the Urals to the east, is the setting for 5 grand campaigns, each starting in a different year of the war.

You are confronted with all possible strategic and tactical decisions, from logistics to diplomacy, from deployment to combat. Every aspect of the war is in your hands in a gaming experience with no precedent on the iPad. Commander the Great War is a game for strategy fans, for history buffs and for anyone who’s looking for a deep, immersive gaming experience.
Features:
•5 Grand Campaigns: 1914 The Great War, 1915 Ypres – Artois, 1916 The Battle of Verdun, 1917 The Nivelle Offensive and 1918 The Kaiserschlacht.
•Over 40 unique historical and “what-if” events triggered by conditions on the campaign-map.
•18 different unit types including Infantry, Cavalry, Armoured Cars and Tanks, Artillery, Railroad Guns and Armoured Trains, Cruisers, Submarines and Battleships, Fighters, Bombers and Airships. Each has its own strengths and weaknesses, based on their historical performance in the various theatres throughout the war.
•Historical Commanders, each with their own specific strengths, so decide wisely which Commander is most suited to which front. Three types of Commanders are available: Generals for ground units, Admirals at sea and flying Aces to strengthen your air units.
•Research and technology to improve units. Aircraft evolve from fragile tools of aerial observation to deadly ground and air attack planes. Artillery barrages become ever more accurate and powerful. Armour technology unleashes a dreadful new weapon on the battlefield: the Tank.
•Detailed and realistic combat that models supply, morale, terrain, leadership, equipment, training and fog of war.
•Cross-platform multiplayer via PBEM++ server system.



aaatoysandmore -> RE: Best gaming representation of real tactics (3/10/2015 10:27:17 AM)

quote:

Commander the Great War is a game for strategy fans,

quote:

Commander The Great War is a turn-based strategy game


Yep, I'm glad you brought that up.

Most people like reading a resume will only read the more blunt part of the game description as I showed you above. It's a strategy game clear.

I'm so glad you posted all that to prove my point. Made my day.[:'(]


EDIT: But, instead of arguing with me Why don't you ask Flibby what he is/was looking for? I think he has a more clear picture of what type of tactical play he wants. You'd argue with a brick wall and I've clearly proven my point that it's a strategy game first and foremost. Good day I'm done here. [:D]



operating -> RE: Best gaming representation of real tactics (3/10/2015 3:17:45 PM)

quote:

My favorite as of late is CTGW, not that difficult a game, however more enjoyable in MP (IMHO). Certainly tactics and strategy are used, a new patch is due out shortly, which includes vast improvements over the original release in all aspects of land, air and naval. Presently the 1.60 beta patch is the best yet. If you are newcomer, the AI more than likely kick your butt. It's certainly an interesting game.. [:)]


quote:

Don't confuse "tactics" with "tactical games". Certainly CTGW is broader than employing company level down to individual units, none-the-less, CTGW utilizes tactics as part of it's overall strategy, that, cannot be denied, much like many of the games marketed today.[;)]


Above are my first 2 posts in this thread, I did not hint at anything other than what the game CTGW contains, in very simple terms. If a member is interested, they certainly would likely do their homework, including looking up information on the game to see if it fits their criteria/judgement to buy.

However, From way out of left field some one chooses to make a mountain out of a molehill as to the term "tactics". OK, I will play along to see where this is going. The rest, you the reader, can make your own opinion , concerning the posts.

Take note: There is a pattern developing in the reroll of the other person's posts, such as; "execution" then "first execution", then "operational" added to create a kind of smokescreen. Much of what he said has validity, but then goes into a diatribe that CTGW does not have tactics, which is totally not the truth. I am only standing up to the fact of being honest about this game.

Even after coping and pasting directly from the Developers home page these facts: "You are confronted with all possible strategic and tactical decisions". I am not hiding the fact that the game has "Strategic value", also to show that the game has "Tactical value" as well. The Developers would not want to misrepresent their own game, they have the public trust in what they say.

Someone wrote in a prior post:
quote:

Most people like reading a resume will only read the more blunt part of the game description

My response to that would be: "A well informed buyer is more than likely a satisfied buyer".

One last point: The same someone does a fine job (in prior post) of editing out, or rather not including that the game has "Tactical Decisions", just so that the public knows the whole truth, not just "Half Truths". [;)]



wodin -> RE: Best gaming representation of real tactics (3/10/2015 6:04:35 PM)

A game ruined by the spotting mechanic..which means you can't actually follow German Urban warfare doctrine that was used in Stalingrad..i.e recon by fire and area supression.
quote:

ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jagdtiger14

You ask "game", not "computer game"...so since I am a Grognard and have played war games since the 70's...I'll have to say the #1 tactical war game (including computer games) of all time with absolutely no rival in this category is: Advanced Squad Leader. Within that game system are two very good campaigns: "Red Barricades" (concerning Stalingrad) and "Kampfgruppe Peiper" (concerning Battle of the Bulge).

Computer game wise, I'll vote for the little known game: Sudden Strike II.

I would hope ASL could come to computer, but its so complicated (even more so than World in Flames) that its almost impossible.


Have to agree with you here and the closest game I know right now is Mark Walker's Heroes of Stalingrad game. Looks like and almost feels like Squad Leader to me. Love the maps and the unit resemblance. Of course it's not squad leader but its as close as I've ever seen.




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