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RE: 1/4/1942 - 2/28/2015 6:27:14 AM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
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From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		Loving the 4 day turns biggest multiplier. You can do v ai is not to play daily turns

(in reply to Rysyonok)
Post #: 31
RE: 12/27/1941 - 2/28/2015 8:13:11 AM   
Jim D Burns


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From: Salida, CA.
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rysyonok
makes me wonder if it is important to include a CA or even a BB into a supply / troop convoy just to ensure it gets to its destination.


Small convoys (10-15 ships max so you aren’t crippled by lost ships if a convoy gets caught) and task force routes will be your main defense against raiders early war. It is simply too costly to try and defend convoys with surface ships. Costly in terms of lost surface ships when the convoys get attacked as happened to you, but also in terms of not having those surface assets available at the tip of the spear to help slow/delay Japan’s advance.

So route long circuitous routes that try and avoid the middle map area that is within easy reach of surface raiders and carrier threats. Some of your APs and AKs have huge endurance ranges, use it and keep them near map edge as much as you can in the early part of the war. Later when you have air bases built up on some islands like Pago Pago, Christmas, etc. you can shorten the routes and use air power to protect that part of the run, but early war staying undetected is your best defense since you really don’t have enough of anything on map yet to defend a risky area of open ocean adequately yet.

Jim


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Post #: 32
RE: 1/4/1942 - 3/1/2015 12:38:29 AM   
Rysyonok


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

Loving the 4 day turns biggest multiplier. You can do v ai is not to play daily turns


Thanks!

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Post #: 33
RE: 12/27/1941 - 3/1/2015 12:40:29 AM   
Rysyonok


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns

Small convoys (10-15 ships max so you aren’t crippled by lost ships if a convoy gets caught) and task force routes will be your main defense against raiders early war. It is simply too costly to try and defend convoys with surface ships. Costly in terms of lost surface ships when the convoys get attacked as happened to you, but also in terms of not having those surface assets available at the tip of the spear to help slow/delay Japan’s advance.

So route long circuitous routes that try and avoid the middle map area that is within easy reach of surface raiders and carrier threats. Some of your APs and AKs have huge endurance ranges, use it and keep them near map edge as much as you can in the early part of the war. Later when you have air bases built up on some islands like Pago Pago, Christmas, etc. you can shorten the routes and use air power to protect that part of the run, but early war staying undetected is your best defense since you really don’t have enough of anything on map yet to defend a risky area of open ocean adequately yet.

Jim


True, all true. I guess I just didn't expect so much... I mean, any IJN presence in the Indian Ocean this early on.

As for defenses, it is so easy to lose 300+ VPs on an unprotected, loaded convoy. Surely that is enough to consider an escort? The 18th division reinforcement that appeared in Singapore cost me 200 VPs in lost ships alone!

< Message edited by Rysyonok -- 3/1/2015 1:41:21 AM >

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Post #: 34
RE: 12/27/1941 - 3/1/2015 2:01:38 AM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		With 4 day turns, and a souped AndyMac game routines,take nothing for granted.

I personally would escort everything steaming in areas that aren't heavily searched and even use CVs early on. Often times I would use the British CLs, and Hermes early on patrolling routes from Perth and Ceylon to Cape Town.

I also always would have at least one surface group at each major port where ships were docked.

All learned From the school of hard knocks...

2 day turns have a magic all their own, I can't imagine doing land attacks with 4 day turns. Good luck!




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Post #: 35
1/8/1942 - 3/1/2015 2:18:28 AM   
Rysyonok


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Status: offline 		1/8/1942:

In a feat I dare anyone to match the Allies lose twenty-two minesweepers in the same turn.

RNN destroyers catch up to Orion and sink it, but the victory is short-lived as another Japanese raider appears west of Suva, clipping wings off of the only French combat ship I have.

In China, IJA steamrolls through several towns, engaging in 80-mile treks over 2-3 days.

In Burma AVG squadrons are moved to Toungoo to recuperate. Who cares that it's just a tiny airfield with no support, if I can field 41 fighters versus just 3 the last turn?

USN carriers intercept two small convoys heading to Midway, sinking between 2 and 5 ships, including a 28-point Akitsu Maru-class LSD, now the most significant kill thus far.

2 IJN submarines effectively shut down Colombo, sitting right in the harbor, sending float planes left and right. Almost 50 RN planes and ships are yet to score a single hit. On the other hand IJN subs around Victoria / Seattle area are starting to take losses, one per USN patrol boat.

So this is where we are, one month in. 169 Allied ships lost - that's an accomplishment...





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Post #: 36
RE: 12/27/1941 - 3/1/2015 2:20:23 AM   
Rysyonok


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

With 4 day turns, and a souped AndyMac game routines,take nothing for granted.

I personally would escort everything steaming in areas that aren't heavily searched and even use CVs early on. Often times I would use the British CLs, and Hermes early on patrolling routes from Perth and Ceylon to Cape Town.

I also always would have at least one surface group at each major port where ships were docked.

All learned From the school of hard knocks...

2 day turns have a magic all their own, I can't imagine doing land attacks with 4 day turns. Good luck!


Land attacks are rather decent... now, carrier battles are very painful. Every time I click "remain on station", I tell my ships good-bye. I am still getting comfortable with patrol zones and boundaries.

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Post #: 37
Victoria - Seattle submarine war - 3/1/2015 2:25:56 AM   
Rysyonok


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Status: offline 		These are the ones I have discovered. I may have rushed with disbanding all the USAF LBs scheduled to be withdrawn in 1942, they may have been very useful right about now.




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Post #: 38
RE: 12/27/1941 - 3/1/2015 4:44:28 AM   
Jim D Burns


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rysyonok
it is so easy to lose 300+ VPs on an unprotected, loaded convoy.


With 4 day turns it is very risky to move anything on the water right now, even an escort isn’t going to help vs KB or mini KB. If I were you I’d weigh every single move very carefully. It is far better to wait a few months than to try and get stuff forward when you lack the air power to protect sea zones around your destination ports. Moving something just because you can may not be a good idea given how exposed you are playing 4 day turns, weigh the risks involved and ask yourself if it’d be safer to wait a few months until you can manage to get some fighter and naval attack planes out forward to threaten Japanese deep raiders.

Any island Japan can take from you right now can easily be retaken later once you have naval air dominance. It doesn’t matter what he puts on an island once you can cut off supply runs any island on map can be taken. In fact the more stuff he crams on an island the faster it’ll chew through available supplies once isolated. So why risk losing the valuable land troops now.

Remember also anything you put on an island right now can be taken by Japan for the first year to year and a half. If he wants it he can take it and the more stuff you put there the faster it’ll starve. So weigh the risk of moving stuff forward too soon carefully. Of course the AI probably won’t totally isolate your bases and may allow a supply convoy to get in now and again, but a human will starve you out so play with that in mind so you don’t develop bad habits.

Jim



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Post #: 39
RE: 12/27/1941 - 3/1/2015 1:42:56 PM   
Lowpe


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Status: offline 		With 4 day turns, once you set an attack, it will continue on the 2, 3, and 4th days as long as you are getting a 2-1 or better. This can result in supply shortage attacks, and some darn nasty results.

I agree, remain on station is hard to click on.

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Post #: 40
RE: 12/27/1941 - 3/2/2015 11:04:49 AM   
HansBolter


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rysyonok


quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

My pleasure.

I don't have the time or facilities to play PBEM so my gaming is strictly against the AI.

I have been playing this game since it was DOS based and called Pacific War so I have a bit of experience under my belt.

A word of warning, tread cautiously on how agressive you want to be early on with the AI.

It is very easy to "break" the AI and end up with a game so lopsided in your favor that it becomes hardly worth playing on into '43.

I can tell you how to completely reconquer China, recovering most of by the end of '42.

I can tell you how to evac the entire III Indian Corps and the entire Dutch army to Timor and set up a bastion that completely stymies the AI.

However, neither of those and perhaps even holding Burma is conducive to a long term game extending into and past '43.

Once you get a handle you may want to try AnyMacs IronMan and IronMan Nasty scenarios that beef up the AI.


I ran a couple of tests, and I noticed that a well-fortified location is almost impenetrable... unless their supplies run out. It's good to have your input here. Maybe you can be my conscience, and when I start bending the limits of a realistic war, you can set me straight :)

I was under impression that scenario 10 is AndyMac's Ironman, or are they different?



Sorry, I didn't read closely enough to realize you are playing scenario 10.

AndyMac made two more IronMan scenarios. IromMan Nasty and IronMan Nasty Nasty.

I think they are scenario numbers 30 and 60.


< Message edited by HansBolter -- 3/2/2015 12:10:29 PM >

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Post #: 41
RE: 12/31/1941 - 3/2/2015 11:09:18 AM   
HansBolter


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rysyonok

12/31/1941:

AVGs get mauled over Rangoon as IJA CAP is growing in strength.




18th division materializes in Singapore aboard 6 APs. The 7 fighter planes still in existence will do what they can. I will most likely have to commit the bombers into a suicide mission against advancing Japanese just to bleed off the enemy fighters so my magnificent seven (and the 18th division) live to see another sunset.

Canton island falls. As long as I still keep Pago Pago and Christmas islands, I'm ok. Otherwise we may have to discuss the northern route for the counteroffensive.




There are three convoys of British troops at game start that are headed to Malaya and Rangoon.

In your second game you will remember to find them and divert them.


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Post #: 42
RE: 12/31/1941 - 3/2/2015 8:54:40 PM   
HansBolter


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quote:

In Burma AVG squadrons are moved to Toungoo to recuperate. Who cares that it's just a tiny airfield with no support, if I can field 41 fighters versus just 3 the last turn?


Wanted to comment on this.

No Aviation Support means no disabled planes will be returned to service.

You need mechanics for that.

Rail a couple of base forces south from northern Burma that likely aren't being used for anything except building up the base they are stationed at.


Also, I wanted to comment on your 4 day turns. Most of what I have stated can be achieved against the AI by an experienced player is predicated on one day turns.

I have no idea what 4 day turns would do to many of the adventures I advocate.

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Post #: 43
RE: 12/27/1941 - 3/3/2015 1:44:56 AM   
Rysyonok


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rysyonok
it is so easy to lose 300+ VPs on an unprotected, loaded convoy.


With 4 day turns it is very risky to move anything on the water right now, even an escort isn’t going to help vs KB or mini KB. If I were you I’d weigh every single move very carefully. It is far better to wait a few months than to try and get stuff forward when you lack the air power to protect sea zones around your destination ports. Moving something just because you can may not be a good idea given how exposed you are playing 4 day turns, weigh the risks involved and ask yourself if it’d be safer to wait a few months until you can manage to get some fighter and naval attack planes out forward to threaten Japanese deep raiders.

Any island Japan can take from you right now can easily be retaken later once you have naval air dominance. It doesn’t matter what he puts on an island once you can cut off supply runs any island on map can be taken. In fact the more stuff he crams on an island the faster it’ll chew through available supplies once isolated. So why risk losing the valuable land troops now.

Remember also anything you put on an island right now can be taken by Japan for the first year to year and a half. If he wants it he can take it and the more stuff you put there the faster it’ll starve. So weigh the risk of moving stuff forward too soon carefully. Of course the AI probably won’t totally isolate your bases and may allow a supply convoy to get in now and again, but a human will starve you out so play with that in mind so you don’t develop bad habits.

Jim




True... thanks. The only island I am truly desiring right now is Christmas one. Should that be lost, it's a long sail from Pearl Harbor anywhere suitable.

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Post #: 44
RE: 12/27/1941 - 3/3/2015 1:45:45 AM   
Rysyonok


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

With 4 day turns, once you set an attack, it will continue on the 2, 3, and 4th days as long as you are getting a 2-1 or better. This can result in supply shortage attacks, and some darn nasty results.



Just like in the real war, when communication lines broke down... :)

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Post #: 45
RE: 12/27/1941 - 3/3/2015 1:46:46 AM   
Rysyonok


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter
Sorry, I didn't read closely enough to realize you are playing scenario 10.

AndyMac made two more IronMan scenarios. IromMan Nasty and IronMan Nasty Nasty.

I think they are scenario numbers 30 and 60.



Ah, I must not have scrolled down enough. I will have to keep those in mind. Have you tried them yourself?


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Post #: 46
RE: 12/31/1941 - 3/3/2015 1:48:45 AM   
Rysyonok


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter
There are three convoys of British troops at game start that are headed to Malaya and Rangoon.

In your second game you will remember to find them and divert them.


I got the first two by Ceylon the first turn (45th and 46th Indian).

I missed another one, and noticed it when it was already in Rangoon (48th Gurkha).

And then there was the 4th one in Singapore (18th Division). I really thought it just appeared, as I couldn't see it before.

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Post #: 47
RE: 12/31/1941 - 3/3/2015 1:51:04 AM   
Rysyonok


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

quote:

In Burma AVG squadrons are moved to Toungoo to recuperate. Who cares that it's just a tiny airfield with no support, if I can field 41 fighters versus just 3 the last turn?


Wanted to comment on this.

No Aviation Support means no disabled planes will be returned to service.

You need mechanics for that.

Rail a couple of base forces south from northern Burma that likely aren't being used for anything except building up the base they are stationed at.


Also, I wanted to comment on your 4 day turns. Most of what I have stated can be achieved against the AI by an experienced player is predicated on one day turns.

I have no idea what 4 day turns would do to many of the adventures I advocate.


Well, there was a little bit of support... a RAF and a yellow-bannered base forces. Enough to repair planes to reach strength of just over 40.

The biggest thing I noticed about the 4-day turns so far is I can't be as liberal about sending troops to rest. I used that a lot in the beginning. Well, that's exactly what cost me the last 2 Chinese cities. How else could IJA knock out 3-4 corps with 2-4 HQs and a lot of preparation?

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Post #: 48
RE: 12/27/1941 - 3/3/2015 2:38:27 AM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rysyonok


quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter
Sorry, I didn't read closely enough to realize you are playing scenario 10.

AndyMac made two more IronMan scenarios. IromMan Nasty and IronMan Nasty Nasty.

I think they are scenario numbers 30 and 60.



Ah, I must not have scrolled down enough. I will have to keep those in mind. Have you tried them yourself?



I have played them, and they are incredibly fun....challenging...and thoroughly unrealistic. Highly recommended.

I did an AAR on one of the early Ironmans...and AndyMac took a lot of ideas from that to really soup up Japan with tons on nasty surprises.

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Post #: 49
1/12/1942 - 3/3/2015 2:47:11 AM   
Rysyonok


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Status: offline 		1/12/1942:

2 Allied ASW ships go down, trying to clear up IJN infestation by Seattle.

A Mogami-class CA Asahi is reported sunk in DEI. It was a single torpedo hit, and I expect the report to reverse soon.




Two mini-KBs circle around Java, putting an end to any thought of reinforcing that area with Australian troops. A single hit to CVL Zuiho is not a match to 27 fighters and 14 bombers lost. 2 of the latter were B-17's, flying at 20,000 feet.

The last US forces on Mindanao are defeated. Manila survives the first assault.

IJA troops are 80 miles from Singapore.

The IJA group at Midway that I thought to be exhausted has been recovering AV very quickly, going from 25 to 51 in 4 days. I can see that starving an enemy unit is not going to be an option in this campaign.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Rysyonok -- 3/3/2015 3:47:32 AM >

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Post #: 50
RE: 12/27/1941 - 3/3/2015 2:48:47 AM   
Rysyonok


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe
I have played them, and they are incredibly fun....challenging...and thoroughly unrealistic. Highly recommended.

I did an AAR on one of the early Ironmans...and AndyMac took a lot of ideas from that to really soup up Japan with tons on nasty surprises.


Great, I'll be on a lookout for your posts. Do you have a link?


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Post #: 51
RE: 12/27/1941 - 3/3/2015 10:49:14 AM   
HansBolter


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rysyonok


quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter
Sorry, I didn't read closely enough to realize you are playing scenario 10.

AndyMac made two more IronMan scenarios. IromMan Nasty and IronMan Nasty Nasty.

I think they are scenario numbers 30 and 60.



Ah, I must not have scrolled down enough. I will have to keep those in mind. Have you tried them yourself?



After mastering 10 I played 30 and it was a definite step up.

However, about that time I gave DaBabes a try and have been forever hooked.

The Babes mod is being developed by some of the games developers and at least in my mind represents the next generation of the game.

They tweaked quite a few things, but most of all they completely revamped the LCUs such that I can't bring myself to go back to a stock game.

Babes has a scenario titled IronBabes, but it is not an IronMan scenario. It is the Babes version of scenario 2.

I pestered AndyMac until he finally ported his IronMan scenario over to Babes. I think it's called "Quick and Dirty IronMan port to Babes" (now that I think of it this may be scenario 30...can never keep the numbers straight).

I haven't actually started it yet as I am currently playing a new scenario based on Babes called Between the Storms.

It isn't set up for solo play but I'm playing it anyway to have fun with all the new toys added to it and playtest bugfinding for the scenario developer John3rd.

Scenario 60 I haven't tried yet, but hear that AndyMac outdid himself on aggressive scripts for an overpowered AI.

< Message edited by HansBolter -- 3/3/2015 11:51:49 AM >

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Post #: 52
RE: 12/31/1941 - 3/3/2015 10:50:29 AM   
HansBolter


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rysyonok

quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter
There are three convoys of British troops at game start that are headed to Malaya and Rangoon.

In your second game you will remember to find them and divert them.


I got the first two by Ceylon the first turn (45th and 46th Indian).

I missed another one, and noticed it when it was already in Rangoon (48th Gurkha).

And then there was the 4th one in Singapore (18th Division). I really thought it just appeared, as I couldn't see it before.


IIRC the convoy it is in starts in the entry box from Capetown.


_____________________________

Hans


(in reply to Rysyonok)
Post #: 53
RE: 12/31/1941 - 3/3/2015 10:53:44 AM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7704
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From: United States
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rysyonok


quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

quote:

In Burma AVG squadrons are moved to Toungoo to recuperate. Who cares that it's just a tiny airfield with no support, if I can field 41 fighters versus just 3 the last turn?


Wanted to comment on this.

No Aviation Support means no disabled planes will be returned to service.

You need mechanics for that.

Rail a couple of base forces south from northern Burma that likely aren't being used for anything except building up the base they are stationed at.


Also, I wanted to comment on your 4 day turns. Most of what I have stated can be achieved against the AI by an experienced player is predicated on one day turns.

I have no idea what 4 day turns would do to many of the adventures I advocate.


Well, there was a little bit of support... a RAF and a yellow-bannered base forces. Enough to repair planes to reach strength of just over 40.

The biggest thing I noticed about the 4-day turns so far is I can't be as liberal about sending troops to rest. I used that a lot in the beginning. Well, that's exactly what cost me the last 2 Chinese cities. How else could IJA knock out 3-4 corps with 2-4 HQs and a lot of preparation?



The yellow bannered base force belongs to the AVG and provides 30 AV.

It withdraws in about 60-90 days IIRC, but is very useful early.

_____________________________

Hans


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Post #: 54
RE: 12/27/1941 - 3/3/2015 12:08:04 PM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rysyonok


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe
I have played them, and they are incredibly fun....challenging...and thoroughly unrealistic. Highly recommended.

I did an AAR on one of the early Ironmans...and AndyMac took a lot of ideas from that to really soup up Japan with tons on nasty surprises.


Great, I'll be on a lookout for your posts. Do you have a link?



It is on the forum, but probably 2+ years old. I would recommend not reading it, as it will provide you with spoilers and take away from the enjoyment of your game.

Every now and then, I would email AndyMac a save game file and he was kind enough to go in and straighten the AI out. Depending what you do, you can really hangup the AI so I will mirror Hans' advice and say try to play historically.







(in reply to Rysyonok)
Post #: 55
1/16/1942 - 3/3/2015 2:08:13 PM   
Rysyonok


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Status: offline 		1/16/1942:

An attempt to reinforce Port Blair with 2 AA regiments goes very bad. 4 large transports (63 points) are lost for the privilege to land 26 AA guns with no supplies or support. Do I even stand a chance of getting to Rangoon, if I can't past Andamans? My Burmese forces are down to 4K supply - combined.

IJN submarines are multiplying all over. In Australia they stay a few hexes offshore, to much dismay of my ASW aircraft. In US, however, they get close enough to scare beach goers. 2 more ASW ships are lost.

1st Australian Division is sent to Port Moresby, just as another IJN KB was reported in the area. It will have to be diverted.

A total of 72 Dutch planes are lost in the last 8 days, with nothing to report in return. If they had somewhere to escape, they would.

In China first Japanese units are spotted just 8 hexes away from Chungking. I have to seriously consider what am I going to do if China is out of this war.

CA Asahi is still on the sunk ship list. Armed to the teeth, it makes me wonder just how tough (and numerous) are their capital ships going to be.




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Post #: 56
RE: 12/27/1941 - 3/3/2015 2:10:37 PM   
Rysyonok


Posts: 2138
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Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter
After mastering 10 I played 30 and it was a definite step up.

However, about that time I gave DaBabes a try and have been forever hooked.

The Babes mod is being developed by some of the games developers and at least in my mind represents the next generation of the game.

They tweaked quite a few things, but most of all they completely revamped the LCUs such that I can't bring myself to go back to a stock game.

Babes has a scenario titled IronBabes, but it is not an IronMan scenario. It is the Babes version of scenario 2.

I pestered AndyMac until he finally ported his IronMan scenario over to Babes. I think it's called "Quick and Dirty IronMan port to Babes" (now that I think of it this may be scenario 30...can never keep the numbers straight).

I haven't actually started it yet as I am currently playing a new scenario based on Babes called Between the Storms.

It isn't set up for solo play but I'm playing it anyway to have fun with all the new toys added to it and playtest bugfinding for the scenario developer John3rd.

Scenario 60 I haven't tried yet, but hear that AndyMac outdid himself on aggressive scripts for an overpowered AI.


Do you have any AARs I can look at?

I did see Babes' links, but I didn't want to play them just yet. I want to master basic landings before I start getting into details...


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Post #: 57
RE: 12/27/1941 - 3/3/2015 2:12:13 PM   
Rysyonok


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe
Depending what you do, you can really hangup the AI so I will mirror Hans' advice and say try to play historically.


I intend to... although not necessarily by choice any more. This game is quickly becoming much more immersive and challenging than WPO has ever been. I thought I was good there... But this is an entirely new level.

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(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 58
RE: 12/27/1941 - 3/3/2015 2:57:19 PM   
pws1225

 

Posts: 1166
Joined: 8/9/2010
From: Tate's Hell, Florida
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quote:

But this is an entirely new level.


Oh yea!

(in reply to Rysyonok)
Post #: 59
1/20/1942 - 3/3/2015 6:53:35 PM   
Rysyonok


Posts: 2138
Joined: 12/17/2005
Status: offline 		1/20/1942:

IJA is right outside of Singapore, 4 hexes away from Rangoon. Manila and Clark field in the Philippines are under constant attacks.

IJN AMC is sighted off of San Francisco. I don't think that it's an option to send convoys without escorts anymore.

USN TF with 2 CVs is ordered to bombard Midway in an attempt to clean up the IJA infestation. Imagine my horror when a Japanese TF is sighted nearby heading right for them, and we're still only on turn 3 out of 4? This could have been bad.




Dutch and British airforce in DEI and Singapore have pretty much given up. I will start withdrawing those units as they no longer serve any purpose. It does not help that a massive KB TF is circling Java like a shark.







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< Message edited by Rysyonok -- 3/3/2015 7:57:28 PM >

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(in reply to Rysyonok)
Post #: 60
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