Surviving until 1946

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Rysyonok -> Surviving until 1946 (2/27/2015 2:57:37 AM)
Warning: this is a game versus Japanese AI. Maybe one day I will be skilled enough for a human opponent, but everyone has to start somewhere. As my first venture into WitP:AE I decided to try the Ironman scenario (stock #10). Very Hard difficulty, 4-day turns, unreliable torpedoes, you name it. The key objective is not going to be to win, although that would always be nice, but more so to survive. 12/11/1941: Japanese planes are merciless, and 64 allied ships go down the very first turn. Hong Kong falls. USN is mostly at anchor, as KB is still circling Pearl Harbor. West Coast is bracing for a wave of submarines. [image]local://upfiles/19087/E19FDD4762154B64AC05C707F9D7382D.jpg[/image]

Rysyonok -> RE: Surviving until 1946 (2/27/2015 3:43:48 AM)
12/15/1941: US Airforce in the Philippines achieves a remarkable 1:1 kill ratio in air-to-air battles, but only 13 airframes survive the brutal grinder. Submarines sprint from Manila, with orders not to retreat. Five IJN transports are hit. Guam and Rabaul fall. Wake, surprisingly, holds. IJA steamrolls through China for the first 6 days of the war, but slows down over the last couple of days. Numerous ships not mentioned in Conway's books make appearance. An unusual plane is seen all over the Pacific. It resembles a floating version of Zero, but that one is rumored to be months away from production? A reward is posted for anyone who can obtain close-up pictures, or even technical data. [image]local://upfiles/19087/C9A04429FCDE48919240DD337D1620D0.jpg[/image]

paradigmblue -> RE: Surviving until 1946 (2/27/2015 7:40:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rysyonok Warning: this is a game versus Japanese AI. Maybe one day I will be skilled enough for a human opponent, but everyone has to start somewhere. As my first venture into WitP:AE I decided to try the Ironman scenario (stock #10). Very Hard difficulty, 4-day turns, unreliable torpedoes, you name it. The key objective is not going to be to win, although that would always be nice, but more so to survive. 12/11/1941: Japanese planes are merciless, and 64 allied ships go down the very first turn. Hong Kong falls. USN is mostly at anchor, as KB is still circling Pearl Harbor. West Coast is bracing for a wave of submarines. [image]local://upfiles/19087/E19FDD4762154B64AC05C707F9D7382D.jpg[/image] Holy crap that is a painful first turn.

Rysyonok -> RE: Surviving until 1946 (2/27/2015 2:02:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: paradigmblue Holy crap that is a painful first turn. You really think so? I assumed anything less than losing 4 BBs at Pearl Harbor is manageable.

Rysyonok -> 12/19/1941 (2/27/2015 2:10:57 PM)
12/19/1941: USAF fighter strength in the Philippines remains at 13 airframes, mostly due to ignoring 90% of IJN air raids. With IJA tanks already on the outskirts of Manila (the 4th and 7th tank regiments have proven to be unstoppable), I am considering pulling out of that airspace to save pilots. Only 4 transports and a wounded AV Langley make Soerabaja. 7 more and 2 gunboats are still trying to get there as well. No survivors from Hong Kong. Chinese front remains full of surprises. Some battles are a walkover for Japan, with hundreds of Chinese squads lost. Some result in a draw. Generally the further from the coast, the tougher the defenders. The first IJN combat vessel is sunk, DMS Taneko, a W-1 class minesweeper. [image]local://upfiles/19087/040AC000CF844CEE9653D0C7E604B13A.jpg[/image]

Jim D Burns -> RE: Surviving until 1946 (2/27/2015 2:11:59 PM)
I don’t think losing the BBs is nearly as important as all those Cruisers. All I can say is ouch that's a lot of Cruisers for turn 1. Old slow BBs aren’t nearly as important as the fast and versatile Cruisers in the first year of the war. Not to mention all the AAA the Cruisers can add to task forces late war after their upgrades. Were the BBs to survive more than likely they’d sit in port waiting until the counter-attack period begins in 1943 before they get put to good use. You could put those Cruisers to work on day two were they still afloat. Jim

paradigmblue -> RE: Surviving until 1946 (2/27/2015 2:14:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rysyonok quote: ORIGINAL: paradigmblue Holy crap that is a painful first turn. You really think so? I assumed anything less than losing 4 BBs at Pearl Harbor is manageable. Oh, don't get me wrong. You could lose every single battleship at Pearl and it would still be manageable - as the allied player no matter your first turn losses you will have more ships than you'll know what to do with by 1944. I was more commenting on losing Force Z plus all those cruisers, which was unfortunate. Luckily, "painful" doesn't mean "debilitating", and I didn't mean to say that losing those ships on the first turn will give you any sort of long-term disadvantage.

Rysyonok -> RE: Surviving until 1946 (2/27/2015 2:31:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns I don’t think losing the BBs is nearly as important as all those Cruisers. All I can say is ouch that's a lot of Cruisers for turn 1. Old slow BBs aren’t nearly as important as the fast and versatile Cruisers in the first year of the war. Not to mention all the AAA the Cruisers can add to task forces late war after their upgrades. Were the BBs to survive more than likely they’d sit in port waiting until the counter-attack period begins in 1943 before they get put to good use. You could put those Cruisers to work on day two were they still afloat. Jim Yes... you're right. Well, at least I no longer have to worry about the names for all those replacement cruisers - I'll just have to commemorate all these losses! Suddenly all those WW1-era RN and RNN hulks have become very valuable.

Rysyonok -> RE: Surviving until 1946 (2/27/2015 2:35:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: paradigmblue quote: ORIGINAL: Rysyonok quote: ORIGINAL: paradigmblue Holy crap that is a painful first turn. You really think so? I assumed anything less than losing 4 BBs at Pearl Harbor is manageable. Oh, don't get me wrong. You could lose every single battleship at Pearl and it would still be manageable - as the allied player no matter your first turn losses you will have more ships than you'll know what to do with by 1944. I was more commenting on losing Force Z plus all those cruisers, which was unfortunate. Luckily, "painful" doesn't mean "debilitating", and I didn't mean to say that losing those ships on the first turn will give you any sort of long-term disadvantage. Well, at least the carriers survived. I was worried as KB was retreating straight through one of them. Instead KB went south east, sinking the 5th USN CA, Louisville, and its AP group.

Rysyonok -> 12/23/1941 (2/27/2015 4:16:30 PM)
12/23/1941: USN and RNN subs wreck havoc on IJN shipping, but at a heavy cost. Four subs are lost, about one for each four confirmed torpedo hits. [image]local://upfiles/19087/BEC209E19C764D39B5C2DC95E3178C48.jpg[/image] This leads to a well-coordinated (3 vectors) air raid on Manila on the 21st; nothing is left afloat in the harbor or up in the air. Even recon aircraft are not spared. So no more torpedoes, and pretty much no more flights out of the Philippines. Any remaining units will be disbanded to save an airframe or two and the pilots. Japanese float planes are seen west of Perth and near Colombo. I wonder if IJN will seriously push west and southwest. A massive conversion program is initiated all over the globe, with the motto "40 AA now is better than 70 AA in 1943". US Senate hastily approves a land-lease program, whereby American artillery and armor is going to be shipped to India. Two Chinese divisions are paid off (full PP cost) to cross into Burma, with several more under negotiations.

HansBolter -> RE: 12/23/1941 (2/27/2015 6:07:41 PM)
You won't need those Chinese units in Burma against the Ai. The British are perfectly capable of preventing the AI from ever getting a foothold in Burma. It all depends on if you are playing to aggressively defeat the AI or roleplaying a more Historically handicapped Allied side.

Rysyonok -> RE: 12/23/1941 (2/27/2015 6:32:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HansBolter You won't need those Chinese units in Burma against the Ai. The British are perfectly capable of preventing the AI from ever getting a foothold in Burma. It all depends on if you are playing to aggressively defeat the AI or roleplaying a more Historically handicapped Allied side. Thank you for your confidence :) So far the British are getting crushed in Malaysia. Any/all efforts to retreat to Singapore have been ceased, as units are being destroyed faster than they can run. Another reason for this move west by the 5th Chinese Corps is supply. Starvation is rampant countrywide. All replacements (except for Chungking area) have been turned off, and no construction is taking place anywhere. A squadron of DC-2 stationed in Kunming was pummeled to dust before they got a single supply mission done.

Rysyonok -> 12/27/1941 (2/27/2015 6:38:48 PM)
12/27/1941: Midway is invaded, but holds on so far. A small supply convoy sneaks into Rangoon, and Betties come hunting. The first couple of raids are defeated, and then Zeroes join the battle. It is a tactical victory, but a strategic setback: Burma only has 9K of supply. An AK is sunk by a German sub U-168 west of Colombo. There must be another one nearby, as Type IX's did not carry float planes. [image]local://upfiles/19087/38766589D8624EFC82091147104584DB.gif[/image]

HansBolter -> RE: 12/27/1941 (2/27/2015 6:54:05 PM)
Move the AVG to Rangoon along with at least two British fighter squadrons and you can establish the air superiority you need to be able to ship supply into Rangoon. Eventually it will be drawn into China. Start this one Dec 8th. You will lose a few xAKs and xAKLs to the occasional Betty/Nell that slips through, but overall you can ship a huge amount of supply in. I set immediately set up a 30+K supply convoy and follow it with another as soon as possible. Shipping 60k+ a week into Rangoon adds up fast. My current game is in Feb '43. The AI never breached the river line and I recently added another 40k+ convoy of liberty ships. Concentrate the and reconstitute the 1st Burma Division in the river hex SE of Pegu. Ship in 2-3 more British Brigades that start in convoys to cover and start extending the flank and the AI will be stymied and never get across the river. Like I said, in games against the AI it all depends on how aggressive or passive you want to play.

Rysyonok -> RE: 12/27/1941 (2/27/2015 7:05:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HansBolter Move the AVG to Rangoon along with at least two British fighter squadrons and you can establish the air superiority you need to be able to ship supply into Rangoon. Eventually it will be drawn into China. Start this one Dec 8th. You will lose a few xAKs and xAKLs to the occasional Betty/Nell that slips through, but overall you can ship a huge amount of supply in. I set immediately set up a 30+K supply convoy and follow it with another as soon as possible. Shipping 60k+ a week into Rangoon adds up fast. My current game is in Feb '43. The AI never breached the river line and I recently added another 40k+ convoy of liberty ships. Concentrate the and reconstitute the 1st Burma Division in the river hex SE of Pegu. Ship in 2-3 more British Brigades that start in convoys to cover and start extending the flank and the AI will be stymied and never get across the river. Like I said, in games against the AI it all depends on how aggressive or passive you want to play. Great suggestions. I'm going to turn the Chinese around and try this. As far as air superiority, it might be a challenge. Right now I have 2 AVGs in Rangoon and 1 in Toungoo, and after last turn half of each squadron is in shambles. 5 losses, 27 damages. I'm starting to rally Indian base forces just north of the border to establish an air bridge for new fighter squadrons to traverse.

HansBolter -> RE: 12/27/1941 (2/27/2015 8:00:38 PM)
The Brit squadrons that start in Gerogetown can be transferred to Port Blair and then to Rangoon. This is a quick way to supplement the AVG so you can get ahead of the first few Oscar squadrons that come calling. I typically also send the Blenhiem fighter squadron there for night CAP as well. I realize you are probably past this point by now. These are mostly pointer for moves to start on December 8th. The AI is typically slow to get started in Burma, waiting until it has conquered Malaya. It usually only starts air raids early and getting on top of the air superiority situation fast is paramount to this strategy in Burma.

Malagant -> RE: 12/27/1941 (2/27/2015 8:17:53 PM)
Great AAR so far, thanks! As a Devil's Advocate to Han's suggestions, playing the same scenario you're playing with same settings, doing something very similar to Hans' suggestions, I had held the river line against 15th Army... ...until Singapore fell and the Japanese landed an Amphib force behind the line and crushed me. The A/I can hand out a surprise or two!

Rysyonok -> 12/31/1941 (2/27/2015 8:42:43 PM)
12/31/1941: AVGs get mauled over Rangoon as IJA CAP is growing in strength. [image]local://upfiles/19087/15620F732E564E03873E50EE9112B1FB.jpg[/image] 18th division materializes in Singapore aboard 6 APs. The 7 fighter planes still in existence will do what they can. I will most likely have to commit the bombers into a suicide mission against advancing Japanese just to bleed off the enemy fighters so my magnificent seven (and the 18th division) live to see another sunset. Canton island falls. As long as I still keep Pago Pago and Christmas islands, I'm ok. Otherwise we may have to discuss the northern route for the counteroffensive.

Rysyonok -> RE: 12/27/1941 (2/27/2015 8:43:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Malagant Great AAR so far, thanks! As a Devil's Advocate to Han's suggestions, playing the same scenario you're playing with same settings, doing something very similar to Hans' suggestions, I had held the river line against 15th Army... ...until Singapore fell and the Japanese landed an Amphib force behind the line and crushed me. The A/I can hand out a surprise or two! Can you share a screenshot of how your war is going? :)

Rysyonok -> RE: 12/27/1941 (2/27/2015 8:44:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HansBolter The Brit squadrons that start in Gerogetown can be transferred to Port Blair and then to Rangoon. This is a quick way to supplement the AVG so you can get ahead of the first few Oscar squadrons that come calling. I typically also send the Blenhiem fighter squadron there for night CAP as well. I realize you are probably past this point by now. These are mostly pointer for moves to start on December 8th. The AI is typically slow to get started in Burma, waiting until it has conquered Malaya. It usually only starts air raids early and getting on top of the air superiority situation fast is paramount to this strategy in Burma. Thanks for the great tips! And I might have only myself to blame. I sailed a few AMc right off Rangoon as fighter bait... I got much more than I bargained for.

HansBolter -> RE: 12/27/1941 (2/27/2015 8:54:25 PM)
My pleasure. I don't have the time or facilities to play PBEM so my gaming is strictly against the AI. I have been playing this game since it was DOS based and called Pacific War so I have a bit of experience under my belt. A word of warning, tread cautiously on how agressive you want to be early on with the AI. It is very easy to "break" the AI and end up with a game so lopsided in your favor that it becomes hardly worth playing on into '43. I can tell you how to completely reconquer China, recovering most of by the end of '42. I can tell you how to evac the entire III Indian Corps and the entire Dutch army to Timor and set up a bastion that completely stymies the AI. However, neither of those and perhaps even holding Burma is conducive to a long term game extending into and past '43. Once you get a handle you may want to try AnyMacs IronMan and IronMan Nasty scenarios that beef up the AI.

Jim D Burns -> RE: 12/27/1941 (2/27/2015 8:54:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HansBolter Concentrate the and reconstitute the 1st Burma Division in the river hex SE of Pegu. I disagree, only reconstitute the Indian Brigade (13th I think is its name), it is the only combat capable unit in the Burma Division right now. Send the rest of the Divisions units to sit in Rangoon on rest and allow repairs and morale to recover. You will repair far more disabled devices if you keep the division split up, if you reconstitute it’ll take months to repair it all if ever as more than likely early combats will kill a lot of those disabled devices. Only seek to reconstitute the division when you see strong Japanese forces approaching and combat appears inevitable. Get your Cruisers out of any convoy task forces they start in ASAP. Only one or two ASW capable fast ships should ever be tied down in slow convoys. Cruisers should get to port somewhere and become part of a surface action group that can do hit and run raids against poorly defended Japanese invasions or bombard recently captured bases to smash the airfield before it gets put to use sending Betties against you. Jim

HansBolter -> RE: 12/27/1941 (2/27/2015 8:57:03 PM)
You need the concentrated AV in the hex to dissuade the AI from crossing. However, you don't need it there until the AI arrives in force to cross the river so your technique will work nicely so long as you concentrate the AV where you need it when you need it.

Jim D Burns -> RE: 12/31/1941 (2/27/2015 9:14:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rysyonok Canton island falls. As long as I still keep Pago Pago and Christmas islands, I'm ok. Otherwise we may have to discuss the northern route for the counteroffensive. I always view the loss of these locations as an opportunity in the early game. Until 1943 it’s difficult to mount any kind of a naval attack into the teeth of Japanese land based air as your carriers are only capable of closing down a single base and their CAP isn’t really large enough or good enough to defend against incoming raids from other Japanese bases in the area. These two locations are isolated with no other local bases around to counter-attack your fleets from, so you should be looking to mount counter-invasions whenever you see KB lurking in the western areas of the map. Get in smash the base with a night bombardment or two (use fast CAs not old slow BBs) that goes in at full speed and follow that up in the day with carrier air that hits the airfield and the base should be shattered. You can then come in and land with little risk to your shipping and KB will be too far away to intervene. The key is getting everything in position ahead of time so when the opportunity presents itself your guys are ready to go immediately and you won’t lose your chance. Jim

Rysyonok -> RE: 12/27/1941 (2/28/2015 12:47:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HansBolter My pleasure. I don't have the time or facilities to play PBEM so my gaming is strictly against the AI. I have been playing this game since it was DOS based and called Pacific War so I have a bit of experience under my belt. A word of warning, tread cautiously on how agressive you want to be early on with the AI. It is very easy to "break" the AI and end up with a game so lopsided in your favor that it becomes hardly worth playing on into '43. I can tell you how to completely reconquer China, recovering most of by the end of '42. I can tell you how to evac the entire III Indian Corps and the entire Dutch army to Timor and set up a bastion that completely stymies the AI. However, neither of those and perhaps even holding Burma is conducive to a long term game extending into and past '43. Once you get a handle you may want to try AnyMacs IronMan and IronMan Nasty scenarios that beef up the AI. I ran a couple of tests, and I noticed that a well-fortified location is almost impenetrable... unless their supplies run out. It's good to have your input here. Maybe you can be my conscience, and when I start bending the limits of a realistic war, you can set me straight :) I was under impression that scenario 10 is AndyMac's Ironman, or are they different?

Rysyonok -> RE: 12/27/1941 (2/28/2015 12:51:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns I disagree, only reconstitute the Indian Brigade (13th I think is its name), it is the only combat capable unit in the Burma Division right now. Send the rest of the Divisions units to sit in Rangoon on rest and allow repairs and morale to recover. You will repair far more disabled devices if you keep the division split up, if you reconstitute it’ll take months to repair it all if ever as more than likely early combats will kill a lot of those disabled devices. Only seek to reconstitute the division when you see strong Japanese forces approaching and combat appears inevitable. Get your Cruisers out of any convoy task forces they start in ASAP. Only one or two ASW capable fast ships should ever be tied down in slow convoys. Cruisers should get to port somewhere and become part of a surface action group that can do hit and run raids against poorly defended Japanese invasions or bombard recently captured bases to smash the airfield before it gets put to use sending Betties against you. Jim Oh, getting my cruisers out of convoy forces is not going to be an issue... I lost them all. Then again, watching all those IJN raider groups (thank you, PBYs) makes me wonder if it is important to include a CA or even a BB into a supply / troop convoy just to ensure it gets to its destination. It's too bad I don't know just how many ships does IJN have in this scenario (and no, I don't want to look at the editor - I want the surprise), as it makes me think twice about engaging in any surface activity. I have already seen 1 CVL, 2 CL, and numerous DDs that are above and beyond the historical OOB. Yamato showed up in Malaysia and Musashi was just sighted in DEI.

Rysyonok -> RE: 12/27/1941 (2/28/2015 12:53:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HansBolter You need the concentrated AV in the hex to dissuade the AI from crossing. However, you don't need it there until the AI arrives in force to cross the river so your technique will work nicely so long as you concentrate the AV where you need it when you need it. That's the catch about 4-day turns: if I sit and wait, I may be too late. In Luzon a concentrated kampfgruppe of the 4th and 7th tank regiments crossed 2 hexes before I could react!

Rysyonok -> RE: 12/31/1941 (2/28/2015 12:54:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns I always view the loss of these locations as an opportunity in the early game. Until 1943 it’s difficult to mount any kind of a naval attack into the teeth of Japanese land based air as your carriers are only capable of closing down a single base and their CAP isn’t really large enough or good enough to defend against incoming raids from other Japanese bases in the area. These two locations are isolated with no other local bases around to counter-attack your fleets from, so you should be looking to mount counter-invasions whenever you see KB lurking in the western areas of the map. Get in smash the base with a night bombardment or two (use fast CAs not old slow BBs) that goes in at full speed and follow that up in the day with carrier air that hits the airfield and the base should be shattered. You can then come in and land with little risk to your shipping and KB will be too far away to intervene. The key is getting everything in position ahead of time so when the opportunity presents itself your guys are ready to go immediately and you won’t lose your chance. Jim Great idea, I'll keep it in mind. But what if there are multiple KBs?...

Rysyonok -> 1/4/1942 (2/28/2015 2:03:34 AM)
1/4/1942: This was a brutal turn. IJA steamrolled into Kuala Lumpur, crushing several British units in its momentum. Japanese air force in turn shut down Rangoon airfield once and for all. 81/86 service and runway damage I could deal with; 18 planes destroyed on the ground are harder to swallow. A total of 75 fighter planes have been lost between 4 squadrons in Rangoon, and it is time to fall back. First to Toungoo to recuperate, then across the border to India. No less than 15 IJN subs blockade Pacific Northwest. 2 submarines sneak into Colombo. Everyone can see them except for the ASW TFs. One of Dutch transport convoys falling back to Colombo meets Orion. Well, at least now we know who owned that enemy float plane in the Indian Ocean... or not. The same day another float plane was spotted off of Colombo. [image]local://upfiles/19087/FDA3E3323E994043BF6E5773BA65AEBD.jpg[/image] P.S. Any idea how to fix these small fonts? I know it is a side effect from a recent Microsoft patch.

Rysyonok -> RE: 1/4/1942 (2/28/2015 2:08:52 AM)
HSK1 Orion [image]local://upfiles/19087/14EED0E23C9F40C3942C6F3357222AB4.jpg[/image]

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