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RE: Conflict Marcus Island - 3/8/2015 2:47:04 PM

Lowpe

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The stage is set. There is blood on the water, and oil, and flotsam, and jetsam. Really everything.

Dare Japan stick around for another day, or beat feet. Or something totally unexpected. George pilots are exhausted, Oscars have taken heavy losses, but there are more of them

. Tonies and Tojo are fresh, awaiting the 4e rain of death at Chumphon, which has plentiful radar.

Waiting, tense, what are the orders?

Is all this death and destruction a mere sideshow, a footnote in history, with the real drama unfolding on a dirt road from Tuang Gyi to the railroad north of Uttaradit?

Or, perhaps, loading onto landing ships somewhere in the vast Pacific?

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RE: Conflict Marcus Island - 3/8/2015 2:49:16 PM

Lowpe

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A thought: If I would have sent slow midgets into Port Blair itself, could they have rescued downed Japanese fighter pilots?

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Post #: 3512

RE: Conflict Marcus Island - 3/8/2015 6:53:16 PM

Lowpe

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Oct 23, 1943

The midget sub runs into a minefield and blows up in San Francisco.

The Haruna and company make for Port Blair where a lone Allied destroyer is scared off, but then entering Port Blair the Tone finds the Nasville and runs rings around her.

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Post #: 3513

RE: Conflict Marcus Island - 3/8/2015 6:57:33 PM

Lowpe

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Hm., what does this portend? Edit: I put the Jakes on daytime recon...argh!

Not only is the bombardment weakened, but two Jakes are flamed by the Allied CAP.

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< Message edited by Lowpe -- 3/9/2015 1:19:44 AM >

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Post #: 3514

RE: Conflict Marcus Island - 3/8/2015 7:00:02 PM

Lowpe

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Bunji gives it a go...

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Post #: 3515

RE: Conflict Marcus Island - 3/8/2015 7:11:33 PM

Lowpe

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More damage done to the Allied shipping both in port and at sea...

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RE: Conflict Marcus Island - 3/8/2015 7:26:00 PM

ny59giants

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Why do I fear that you are facing just enough assets in the air and sea to keep your interest in the Andaman Sea??

You have lost Rangoon so now I would expect long range B-25 attack bombers and those torpedo carrying Beaufighters. He has plenty of C-47s to airlift things into PB and without stacking limits....

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Post #: 3517

RE: Conflict Marcus Island - 3/8/2015 7:30:17 PM

Lowpe

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Allied Tank Army is going two directions at once. Maybe I will be able to hold...maybe.

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Post #: 3518

RE: Conflict Marcus Island - 3/8/2015 7:41:34 PM

Lowpe

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Really depressing here too. 5,000 AV, sure you say! 800AV in one Chinese Corp.

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Post #: 3519

RE: Conflict Marcus Island - 3/8/2015 7:51:33 PM

Lowpe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

Why do I fear that you are facing just enough assets in the air and sea to keep your interest in the Andaman Sea?? You have lost Rangoon so now I would expect long range B-25 attack bombers and those torpedo carrying Beaufighters. He has plenty of C-47s to airlift things into PB and without stacking limits....

I never had Rangoon.

Is Port Blair a distraction...sure. The real threat is overland via Burma and in the CentPac. The Allies are simply using big, and bigger hammers on me. I know he likes to apply pressure on multiple fronts, but there is no good strategy for me.

He is exposing relatively inexpensive units, while mine are precious. But that is only because I have torpedoed or sunk all the expensive targets currently over here.

I did land a Field Artillery Battalion on Trinkat, so hopefully they can really wear down the paratroopers. The KB is finished for in this area and leaving this day. I hope her exposure and going dark can keep the Allies at bay here for two more months...heck, I hope I can slow the Allies down in Indochina, but somehow I think not. I just don't have enough troops.

Well, we will see if I can escape Pegu with my 1400 AV and join up with 650 in the jungles to the south. A shock, river crossing versus some dug in troops might be painful. There is a fair bit of artillery there and the 2nd Tank Div.

Allies have over 7000 AV on the front pushing me in Burma. And it will get worse.

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Post #: 3520

RE: Conflict Marcus Island - 3/9/2015 12:00:56 AM

Lowpe

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SamJ research: Gifu has been on fire lately, rapidly repairing!

I really need this plane...probably more than the Ki202, but we shall see.

A lot less fireworks this next turn, I hope. Sweeping Port Blair area with destroyers (2 groups), unloading at Trinkat, some Japanese night bombing scheduled.

The Sumatra is listed as sunk now, and hopefully we will hear no more from the Nashville. Almost all the Cruisers and Light Cruisers I reportedly sunk are off the list, being fixed to some degree in Port Blair which is stuffed with 50 ships. Hopefully I can have 10 or so days of just using destroyers and light cruisers in the Andamans. Musashi will probably go for radar upgrades, leaving 3 battleships in the area, with Nagato and Fuso getting repaired.

I am hesitant to let Musashi get her radar at Singers...who knows what the situation will be like in 15 days, let alone 30.

I hope that 5K AV Allied Army bombards again, I need one more day to get out of Pegu, but then what really? I need to hold two hexes, and the Allies can simply feint one way and concentrate on the other. A solid understanding of retreat routes really lets the Attacker get some great results...

All Tanks except for the 2nd Tank Division are out of Burma staging around Uttaradit and north or south.

Hopefully I will get two more days before the Allied Tank Army engages again...that would give me time for 3 Tank Rgts, 3 Hvy Art, and some other forces to join them. I need time on the dirt road from Tuang Gyi.

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RE: Blood on the water - Andamans Afire - 3/9/2015 12:09:10 AM

Lowpe

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I am glad I put up that picture of the Tone and Bunji.

Those two ships, exceptionally fast, just really put on a textbook encounter, with ranges very close. Granted the Nashville had a few hits from the previous two days, but still, it puts a smile on this JFB's face.

The Tone's experience reached 78/78 and the Musashi picked up 4 night experience and 1 day from the recent battles.

What a great ship!

And Bunji is a great Captain!

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< Message edited by Lowpe -- 3/9/2015 1:17:44 AM >

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RE: Blood on the water - Andamans Afire - 3/9/2015 12:24:11 PM

Lowpe

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Oct 24, 1943

Destroyer and CL forces tangle three times with this Allied destroyer before a rare daytime combat puts an end to her.

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RE: Blood on the water - Andamans Afire - 3/9/2015 12:26:02 PM

Lowpe

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Though, the big news is pretty big, the Allies shock attack at Pegu with there hideously large 6000AV Army.

I doubt anything can stop it. I don't think I even have 6000 AV in all of the west.

Ugly.

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RE: Blood on the water - Andamans Afire - 3/9/2015 3:19:43 PM

Lokasenna

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Though, the big news is pretty big, the Allies shock attack at Pegu with there hideously large 6000AV Army.

I doubt anything can stop it. I don't think I even have 6000 AV in all of the west.

Ugly.

Start that big, last ditch effort to get all of the Oil out of the SRA. You're going to lose it soon if you can't slow his progress here.

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Post #: 3525

RE: Blood on the water - Andamans Afire - 3/9/2015 4:10:57 PM

Lowpe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

Start that big, last ditch effort to get all of the Oil out of the SRA. You're going to lose it soon if you can't slow his progress here.

Right now all I can think of is putting one unit in every hex so the Allies have to attack in each hex, and try to retreat everything back to Vinh except those forces for Singers....I am slow doing this turn! There are two JR hexes on the way to either Bangkok or Raheng will try to hold there with whatever I can scratch together.

The implications are tough. Allies in Bangkok by end of November. Allies in Raheng sooner. Last turn I went thru and sent every tanker to Singers...this turn will add every fuel capable cargo ship.

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RE: Blood on the water - Andamans Afire - 3/9/2015 5:23:46 PM

Alfred

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Right now all I can think of is putting one unit in every hex so the Allies have to attack in each hex, and try to retreat everything back to Vinh except those forces for Singers....I am slow doing this turn! There are two JR hexes on the way to either Bangkok or Raheng will try to hold there with whatever I can scratch together.

The implications are tough. Allies in Bangkok by end of November. Allies in Raheng sooner. Last turn I went thru and sent every tanker to Singers...this turn will add every fuel capable cargo ship.

That won't work. You are in the mirror position which the Chinese forces are in 1942 and accordingly what I have outlined elsewhere for that situation is applicable here too.

You are not closely enough looking at the strength and weaknesses of the respective forces. Sending in penny packets to stop the Allied gorillas will not work, in fact it is aiding the Allied assault.

Forget about the AV displayed, the real problem is that you lack the firepower to stop 1943 Allied armour and beefed up infantry. Putting up one weak roadblock after another will therefore always fail. However, you do have one advantage, it being that Japanese infantry moves much more quickly in jungle terrain than does Allied armour. The other advantage you possess is that the Allied LOC is very vulnerable. These two points indicate a different operational approach is in order. Specifically you must abandon static defence and transition to mobile operations.

1. The Allied tanks will move only along roads. They can use pursuit to disrupt your roadblocks. Therefore do not place roadblocks in front of the advancing enemy tanks. Put roadblocks behind the advancing enemy tanks to cut their LOC. These roadblocks need not be that strong.

2. Move your infantry cross country and behind the enemy schwerpunkt. Cut the enemy LOC.

3. Use paratroops and follow on infantry to capture enemy supply depots. Taung Gyi is the key supply depot for the enemy Panzerarmee. Recon e ery rear area supply depot to see which are weakly held. Forget about your own terrestrial LOC as small forces can live off air drops.

4. Concentrate your main forces where they (a) cannot be quickly reached by the enemy and (b) where you can build up stockpiles to withstand a siege.

Basically you need to exchange space for time. You buy additional time by hitting the enemy's logistics. The only benefit which a static defence can provide is when time is bought. This benefit is not possible here.

Alfred

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Post #: 3527

RE: Blood on the water - Andamans Afire - 3/9/2015 6:04:15 PM

Lowpe

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Thanks so much Alfred!

I had seen the parallels to early China.

I also know that I am doing everything wrong, behind in my OODA loop, unfortunately. Reacting and always three steps behind.

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Post #: 3528

RE: Blood on the water - Andamans Afire - 3/9/2015 6:34:17 PM

Lowpe

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The midget sub attack on San Francisco, targeting 6 tankers, failed miserably when the midget detonated a mine, and now, one day later the area is crawling in ASW planes and ships. The DEs manage to catch up to the mothership and inflict 16 system damage in her (thankyou deep water). The support Iboats (1 glen equipped Iboat & 1 Iboat) are relocating to interdict the Panama Canal/LA run which already has a fast Iboat patrolling.

I am going for Port Blair, again, primarily because of all those ships in a small port.

Sydney and New Zealand are next. Noumea maybe. Lots of targets.

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RE: Blood on the water - Andamans Afire - 3/9/2015 8:54:09 PM

Sangeli

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

That won't work. You are in the mirror position which the Chinese forces are in 1942 and accordingly what I have outlined elsewhere for that situation is applicable here too.

You are not closely enough looking at the strength and weaknesses of the respective forces. Sending in penny packets to stop the Allied gorillas will not work, in fact it is aiding the Allied assault.

Forget about the AV displayed, the real problem is that you lack the firepower to stop 1943 Allied armour and beefed up infantry. Putting up one weak roadblock after another will therefore always fail. However, you do have one advantage, it being that Japanese infantry moves much more quickly in jungle terrain than does Allied armour. The other advantage you possess is that the Allied LOC is very vulnerable. These two points indicate a different operational approach is in order. Specifically you must abandon static defence and transition to mobile operations.

1. The Allied tanks will move only along roads. They can use pursuit to disrupt your roadblocks. Therefore do not place roadblocks in front of the advancing enemy tanks. Put roadblocks behind the advancing enemy tanks to cut their LOC. These roadblocks need not be that strong.

2. Move your infantry cross country and behind the enemy schwerpunkt. Cut the enemy LOC.

3. Use paratroops and follow on infantry to capture enemy supply depots. Taung Gyi is the key supply depot for the enemy Panzerarmee. Recon e ery rear area supply depot to see which are weakly held. Forget about your own terrestrial LOC as small forces can live off air drops.

4. Concentrate your main forces where they (a) cannot be quickly reached by the enemy and (b) where you can build up stockpiles to withstand a siege.

Basically you need to exchange space for time. You buy additional time by hitting the enemy's logistics. The only benefit which a static defence can provide is when time is bought. This benefit is not possible here.

Alfred

I agree with some of this analysis but not all of it. Specifically it may be problematic trying to actively disrupt Allied LOC in the rear. If something is VERY weakly held go for it but even base forces can be problematic to deal with in terrain. And trying to put roadblocks in behind Allied armor doesn't sound feasible. Maybe in certain areas it may be possible if there is a minor road leading to the rear of a position but trying to march through roadless jungle around Allied tanks sounds like a bad idea. Perhaps I am missing something on this that you haven't explained.

On the other hand, I do agree with the principle of setting up strong bases in heavy terrain where they can withstand a siege. One of the big problems with this long inland advance the Allies are making in Burma is being able to capture bases along the way. If they can capture them it will be easier to fly in supply and have front line CAP. I think Rahaeng becomes a key base for you to defend now; it is the most likely point where the inland and coastal columns will link up. I believe that the inland advance my sputter due to supply issues but it may not matter if a new route to supply those units is created through Rahaeng.

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RE: Blood on the water - Andamans Afire - 3/9/2015 10:38:09 PM

Lowpe

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Turn is away, and I am working on it to the best of my ability.

Supply almost always seems to get thru in China, Chinese efforts at cutting supply have been very numerous in this game and ultimately not effective. Perhaps this won't be true in Burma or the Allied thirst for supplies is really great.

Raheng will be a heavy fort, if I can make it so with troops. Infiltrators are on the way, I take it these are the light IJA troops without motorized devices or very few.

We will see what happens. Yesterday I started closing off the three open hexes in Chungking: the groups travel 4, 10 and 15 miles per day so I will try to coordinate them to all arrive on the same day. Once Chungking is fully closed, most of the troops will relocate west to defend against the Allied horde I think.

I guess I need to abandon Moulmein, the most I can get there is 2000 AV, it is easily bombarded, difficult to supply and only x2 terrain. Will fall back or forward to the two JR terrain hexes (one west of Raheng) and see if I can mount a credible defense there while also using threatening his line of supply thru the jungle. If I can get both Tank Divisions to form up and dig in there that will give me a potent anchoring force in the x3 terrain, plus the Allies will be tempted to head south for Tavoy and Bangkok splitting his forces (and mine).

Pulling out a division with 43 squads off the Kuriles. It is winter, and I will replace them eventually with something smaller...they are earmarked for Hanoi or further west.

Making plans to pull the 4th Div off Trinkat...I don't think I am going to have the time to destroy the paratroops there and I am happy with owning the base while he owns the jungle. Started bombarding with Artillery, and will keep that up and see if I can nail his transports or run him out of supply. It would be a different story if I could hurt his troops with bombardments, but I can't.

Night naval attacks on Port Blair...we will see if they fly.

Tuang Gyi has only 3 units, but I doubt my 39AV Paratroops could take it. Assigned a little more recon to try and get numbers of defenders.

Finally shut down Nick C production...

< Message edited by Lowpe -- 3/9/2015 11:40:11 PM >

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Post #: 3531

RE: Blood on the water - Andamans Afire - 3/9/2015 10:50:36 PM

obvert

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You may not want to take suggestions from the guy who lost an entire army over here, but just in case you do ...

I think you have a few key defensive hexes where you can still do him damage. It's not necessary to stop the advance. This is all about gaining time.

Do you have 2k AV of decent troops available? Because he won't shock into Moulmein quickly and easily. It'll need some work from the sea and air to get it ready so he knows that massive force shocking over a river won't land on it's own bayonet. River crossings are not to be taken lightly into decent terrain with unknown levels of forts.

Should you not have troops available that quickly, and/or once he smashes that delaying block, the other three white hexes are your best chances of another delay. The trouble is that either way you chose to Central Thailand, he'll choose the other and the tanks will beat you. Set up in x3 and build a few forts and those troops might hold for a while, especially if he splits the army and goes both ways.

The Orange hexes are to defend next as Bankok is just a good place to hole up due to the river crossings and the ability to reinforce/retreat by sea. Prachupkiririkan or whatever it is needs to be held to keep him from walking down Malaya. Or I should say one of those bases should be held, so why not that one?

By the time we get to red you're on the run, but you can slow the now split up smaller Allied army-lets by getting some decent troops in the best terrain on the shortcut roads and bombing the crap out of anything in the open clear hexes. Saigon can be bypassed but of course he will want Saigon and it's a good defensive hex with sea access. If he does bypass the trouble is you need Cam Ranh Bay to be defended too. They're at least both good terrain.

I think it should take several months to get by Moulmein, and if he's got 6k AV in that stack what else does he have that's mobile and in theatre? Probably not a lot. Get Moumein set up and move some units behind to get into decent terrain while you prepare a next layer. If you need to stop this or else, move in everything you have in reserve and do it. Those x3 hexes will slow him, just keep things supplied and watch your back door!

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RE: Blood on the water - Andamans Afire - 3/9/2015 10:58:02 PM

Lowpe

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Captain Matsunaga led the 5 DD squadron that took down the Napier yesterday. Those Aussie ships have been a huge pain in 42&43 (the Nestor, Nepal and Napier). N class Destroyers...no idea what happened to Nizam and Norman other than they were sunk by my predecessor, but I think they are all now gone just in time to be replaced by Fletchers.

Anyhow, Matsunaga is one of the best naval task force commanders Japan has (skill 81), but his aggression is 32. Leadershp 57.

The destroyers picked up 0,0,1,1,3 experience for the encounter.

I am not sure how aggression is used...but here Matsunaga kept the engagement ranges pretty far for destroyers and he showed no desire to break off the attack (he vastly outnumbered the Allies).

I have been trying to use lower aggression naval task force commanders for my warships since I want the ships to stick around...and I think this was a good sign. Of course I am not sure how the TF commander's aggression is played off the ship captains.

Meanwhile Tanaka, who is no shrinking violet, led his CL/DD squadrons several times recently and fought only once per night and then retired back to port while less aggressive TF commanders kept on fighting. Didn't even fire that much ammo or his ships get hit hard (12 sys damage was the greatest). So go figure...perhaps mission tasking has a lot to do with it too (surface vs bombardment).

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RE: Blood on the water - Andamans Afire - 3/9/2015 11:18:57 PM

Lowpe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

You may not want to take suggestions from the guy who lost an entire army over here, but just in case you do ...

Thanks Obvert!

Of course I take suggestions...experience is a great teacher.

I would like to know how you managed to get 22 divisions over here to lose!

I have never played Japan this far (not counting Downfall)...so breaking new territory for me here.

If, I can get my troops out of the hex north of Moulmein, then I will indeed have 2000 AV in Moulmein, but I worry about keeping it supplied thru massive daily 4e bombings and down the road naval bombardments. I do have plentiful AA, and Coastal Guns, and Mines and forts are 5.

However, if you zoom in on Moulmien, it is easily bypassed to the NE. I don't have 2000AV for both, and once he is across the river, I risk losing all those troops.

The Pegu force is comprised of 2 Yank Divisions, a Marine Div, Chinese full strength Corp (does it have the American TOE?), British and Commonwealth Divisions, plus lots of vehicle units (many Yanks) and Artillery.

The Tuang Gyi force is 2 Yank Divisions and British and Commonwealth tanks bolstered by 1 Yank Tank unit.

1350 AV of IJA is retreating to Moulmein using reserve movement, everyone making their own best speed.

There is one more JR terrain hex south of Moulmein on the dirt road that looks good to hold too.

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< Message edited by Lowpe -- 3/10/2015 12:23:22 AM >

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RE: Blood on the water - Andamans Afire - 3/9/2015 11:28:37 PM

Lowpe

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I was thinking these hexes look good...if I abandon Moulmien, which really depends upon whether I can get my troops there without another shock attack first.

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RE: Blood on the water - Andamans Afire - 3/10/2015 1:12:05 AM

Sangeli

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

I was thinking these hexes look good...if I abandon Moulmien, which really depends upon whether I can get my troops there without another shock attack first.

Unfortunately with that defensive plan the Allies could march on Tavoy and then head east to completely bypass your road block. It's only one hex of movement through the jungle without roads so it's really only a small delay. I realize there aren't any really good options here as you either have to defend along the coast or have to defend too many places at once but that is just a reality of playing Japan at this stage.

I honestly think that Moulmein is probably the last place you can really hope to hold for some time in that section of Burma. After Moulmein falls the Allies will have broken out and the only thing that is going to slow them down is how long it takes them to march from one hex to another. At that point the only thing you can do is to try to make the Allies move off the roads to bypass your defenses. Can't really give much more guidance than that.

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RE: Blood on the water - Andamans Afire - 3/10/2015 7:27:24 AM

obvert

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To bypass Moulmein it'll take more than a month for both hexes and then he'll have a poor supply path you could begin to mess with. That's already a good delay for a two hex forward movement and with no loss of your troops. Maybe your shattered troops can then move back and set up in the rear. You know his psychology though. If he decides to shock over you may do even better.

He could just walk to Tavoy, but again, that will take more time than going directly to Bangkok. It also will require exposing troops along the coast to many days of possible bombardments. I'd lock the place down with the KB and bring the big boys in if he eventually chooses that route.

With every forward movement he loses some troops to hold the LOC and garrison. So those jungle rough hexes in Thailand will be potential quagmires since supply will also have a long tenuous path by then and you can work to slow and bomb the troops in those hexes. My 2E Helen pilots were well over 80 ground bombing skill by this point and could really do some damage even with Allied flak.

In terms of getting enough troops here you have to consider stripping other defensive areas (not the Marianas or Kuriles) or buying out a few more divisions to shore things up. You don't want him in Indochina in 1/44!!

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RE: Blood on the water - Andamans Afire - 3/10/2015 11:20:35 AM

Lowpe

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Oct 25, 1943

Destroyers do a surprisingly good job shelling Port Blair's airfield with 28 hits on the runway and 22 runway hits. Not big shells, but every little bit counts. No ships in opposition.

Night bombing by Emilies and Betties yields no hits.

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RE: Blood on the water - Andamans Afire - 3/10/2015 11:23:53 AM

Lowpe

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Iboat strikes...however we lose an xak near Samah to a Yank submarine.

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RE: Blood on the water - Andamans Afire - 3/10/2015 12:39:59 PM

Lowpe

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Less good news: The bombardment force doesn't hit Cap Nicobar but sits right there, and of course the Allies flew in planes he loses over 35 but sinks a CL, and a destroyer, another hit gets an AK at Trinkat that was in the process of burning up from a sub hit anyhow. Allied strike package was SBDs, F4Fs and Corsairs.

Allied planes strike at Moulmein, including Audax.

He is sweeping with only one squadron of Thunderbolts, so I smell a chance to fly lots of LRCAP over Moulmien.

Thanks for all the great discussions lately, everyone.

The 2nd Tank easily made Moulmien, and mostly everything else will except some AA and ART this next day. Over 2000 AV, with 21 units of artillery, HQc and Command HQ 100 percent prepped and in range.

The trick is going to be to get enough supplies to keep them fighting. I have some doubt as to whether or not the Allies will shock across the river or attempt to flank, but I do know they are coming, I doubt he will wait for his HQs to prep for the attack. But you never know.

The problem with defending in the jungle, is that after 100 bombing runs your troops start to run low on ammo...so Moulmien seems like the best place to defend.