RE: Parafrag Bombs

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RE: Parafrag Bombs - 3/31/2015 5:44:06 PM

Panther Bait

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Considering that the parafrag and the skip bombing successes were in the same general vicinity and likely performed by air units, couldn't that success be due as much to a highly trained group of low-level attack specialists as opposed to a superior ordinance type?

Mike

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RE: Parafrag Bombs - 3/31/2015 5:45:45 PM

m10bob

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The real reason for parafrags was to allow extremely low level attacks and slow the bombs to prevent damaging the friendly planes.In theory the planes would be gone prior to explosions. Some had timers to prevent premature detonation as well.
Parafrag attacks were not done by planes following each other, but flying in a line abreast formation.(Hit and leave at once).
Consider these attacks to be the land version of the very succesful skip-bombing attacks sometimes carried out by the same units.

http://pwencycl.kgbudge.com/P/a/Parafrag_Bombs.htm

< Message edited by m10bob -- 3/31/2015 6:47:59 PM >

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RE: Parafrag Bombs - 3/31/2015 6:26:03 PM

AW1Steve

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Of course they ARE obsolete. We don't use them anymore. The "Snake-eye" system ("retarded bombs" , no not mentally disabled , although then again they are "dumb" bombs) that is a kit that affixes rotor type wings to slow the bomb up. It has the added advantage that you can use (allegedly)any size bombs. (I don't think a "Tall Boy", "Grand Slam" or MOAB would work thought).

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RE: Parafrag Bombs - 3/31/2015 9:10:28 PM

robinsa

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

text

I understand it is hard to hide a plane, especially with limited resources but I have to say they did a terrible job at hiding this one.

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Post #: 34

RE: Parafrag Bombs - 4/1/2015 1:55:35 PM

m10bob

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Forgot to mention....Some of the para frags had timers on them. The timers would allow the bombs to go off when an enemy ground crew might be out repairing planes and damaged runways.
Japan was always short of trained ground crew and mechanics, (which is the main reason nearly every captured Japanese airbase had damaged planes which only needed a part or two to repair. The parts might be there, but the skills to put them on the damaged plane just might not be there and it was literally easier to replace the whole plane)..

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RE: Parafrag Bombs - 4/1/2015 2:04:06 PM

jmolyson

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Panther Bait

Considering that the parafrag and the skip bombing successes were in the same general vicinity
and likely performed by air units, couldn't that success be due as much to a highly trained
group of low-level attack specialists as opposed to a superior ordinance type?

Mike

The same could be said for the Zero, an outstanding weapon combined with superbly trained pilots.
Was the Zero successful because of the weapon or because of the crew? It was both reasons of course.

The 5th Air Force crews were well trained, there weren't a lot of them and they flew a lot of
missions. The parafrag and phosphorus bomb were extremely effective because the Japanese had
large numbers of poorly protected aircraft crowded together at the target airfields (little
motorized transport for the ground crews), and because they were repeatedly surprised (the
available supply of parafrags did not allow for their continuous use).

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Post #: 36

RE: Parafrag Bombs - 4/1/2015 2:27:13 PM

jmolyson

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Panther Bait

Considering that the parafrag and the skip bombing successes were in the same general vicinity and likely performed by air units, couldn't that success be due as much to a highly trained group of low-level attack specialists as opposed to a superior ordinance type?

Mike

As for skip-bombing, crews were specifically trained in this technique by Major Bill Benn, who had been MG Kenney's aide.
He went to the 43rd BG/63rd Bomb Squadron (B-17s) and made them believers. The crews were trained on a reef-stranded ship
at Port Moresby, the SS Pruth. Once successfully employed against the Japanese, the technique spread throughout the 43rd BG
and then to the B-25 and A-20 units. The smaller bombers were better platforms for this tactics that the Fortresses, and with
installation of more forward-firing ordnance could sweep the enemy deck of AA crews. Bomb delivery from 200�250 ft at 170�220 kn,
releasing a stick of 2-4 500lb demo bombs with 4-5 sec time delay fuzes. Bombs would "skip" over the water, bounce into the side
of target or submerge and detonate along side.

This later evolved into "mast-height" attacks. Bomb delivery approaching at 200�250 ft at 250-300 kn, dropping to 10-15 ft 600 yds
from the target, releasing two 500lb demo bombs with 4-5 sec time delay fuzes into the target from 300 yds and zooming over it.
Sometimes skip and mast-height bombing were used together depending on the target and situation. This was actually safer and cheaper
than using a torpedo.

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Post #: 37

RE: Parafrag Bombs - 4/1/2015 2:31:54 PM

jmolyson

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quote:

ORIGINAL: robinsa

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

text

I understand it is hard to hide a plane, especially with limited resources but I have to say they did a terrible job at hiding this one.

Note the poor bastard trying to get into the cockpit between the right engine nacelle and the fuselage. Not a good day to be
in the Japanese aviation business. Japanese aircraft were often pretty crowded together due to inadequate transport for limited ground
crews and an over-reliance on AAA.

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Post #: 38

RE: Parafrag Bombs - 4/1/2015 2:36:46 PM

jmolyson

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quote:

ORIGINAL: m10bob

The real reason for parafrags was to allow extremely low level attacks and slow the bombs to prevent damaging the friendly planes.In theory the planes would be gone prior to explosions.
Some had timers to prevent premature detonation as well. Parafrag attacks were not done by planes following each other, but flying in a line abreast formation.(Hit and leave at once).
Consider these attacks to be the land version of the very succesful skip-bombing attacks sometimes carried out by the same units.

http://pwencycl.kgbudge.com/P/a/Parafrag_Bombs.htm

The timers were not there to prevent premature detonation, that was the parachute's job. They were there, as you said in a later post, to disrupt post-attack recovery efforts.

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Post #: 39

RE: Parafrag Bombs - 4/1/2015 2:54:40 PM

jmolyson

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

Of course they ARE obsolete. We don't use them anymore. The "Snake-eye" system ("retarded bombs" , no not mentally disabled , although then again they are "dumb" bombs) that is a kit that affixes rotor type wings to slow the bomb up. It has the added advantage that you can use (allegedly)any size bombs. (I don't think a "Tall Boy", "Grand Slam" or MOAB would work thought).

They are obsolete and so are all the planes and pilots that dropped them:-) The dumpy demolition bombs of WWII have been replaced by a series of low-drag Mk-80 series and other aerodynamic bombs.

The Snake Eye kits on Mk 80-series bombs are also obsolescent, having been introduced to combat in Vietnam.
Snake eye refers to bombs with pop-out air brakes (retarders) which slow the bomb. This allows better clearance
of the attack aircraft from the subsequent explosion. The fin kits have been largely replaced with balutes,
balloons that rapidly inflate and do the same job. These days the Mk 80 series are most often delivered from medium altitude and
stand-off ranges used precision-guided laser or GPS-kits with glide fins installed on the bombs, the so-called "Smart" or "Precision Guided" weapons.

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RE: Parafrag Bombs - 4/1/2015 9:39:52 PM

packerpete

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When I got out of the Marines in 1991, the snake eye kits were few and far between and are not likely to be used anymore except as a training weapon. As related above, the balute or in some cases parachutes are used in there place because all to frequently one or more of the fins/vanes would break off in flight on the bomb sometimes causing it to pitch up into the delivering aircraft or veering sharply left or right into your wingman.

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Post #: 41