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RE: Midget sub penetrates harbor! - 4/30/2015 2:54:21 PM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: koniu
I look at my game with Docup. We achieve similar loses (+- few hundred) in July 44
So You game is much much bloodier in air.


I just got done looking at Mr. Kane vs Greyjoy and by Jan 45 they had 22K (Allies) 24K (Japanese) losses. This is the game where Greyjoy complained bitterly of being unable to wrest air control from Japan. Ki94 goodness, sadly a plane you won't see in this game.

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Post #: 4141
RE: Midget sub penetrates harbor! - 4/30/2015 3:00:05 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
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From: Argleton
Status: offline 		We are on the last day of June '44 and our losses are far lower!

This is from the Intel screen so I just added up the categories to get the totals. 

        Japan     Allies

Total   15,194    12,252

Air      7,711     5,290

Flak       800     1,054

Ground     944       274

Ops      5,739     5,634


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RE: Midget sub penetrates harbor! - 4/30/2015 3:01:03 PM   
koniu


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From: Konin, Poland, European Union
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe


quote:

ORIGINAL: koniu
I look at my game with Docup. We achieve similar loses (+- few hundred) in July 44
So You game is much much bloodier in air.


I just got done looking at Mr. Kane vs Greyjoy and by Jan 45 they had 22K (Allies) 24K (Japanese) losses. This is the game where Greyjoy complained bitterly of being unable to wrest air control from Japan. Ki94 goodness, sadly a plane you won't see in this game.

Every game is different. In Mr. Kane vs Greyjoy loses where not dramatic problem but as You say Ki-94 was. This plane can strato sweep everything(48170ft celling

Most of games, at least my game, have air loses with ~2:3 ratio an allied favor.






< Message edited by koniu -- 4/30/2015 4:04:58 PM >

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Post #: 4143
RE: Midget sub penetrates harbor! - 4/30/2015 3:05:23 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		It seems to me Joc vs Obvert was the harshest air war for Japan, that it lasted till July 45 helps of course, but Joc really pursued a full air war against Japan, but still the Allies lost only 24K planes if I recall correctly.

There is at least one ongoing AAR that I won't name that has higher Allied losses. Still looking...


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RE: Midget sub penetrates harbor! - 4/30/2015 3:18:52 PM   
Mike McCreery


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Status: offline 		I believe some players have missed the obvious.

Sometimes to win an air war you just need not to be there ;]

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RE: Midget sub penetrates harbor! - 4/30/2015 3:39:20 PM   
obvert


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wargmr

I believe some players have missed the obvious.

Sometimes to win an air war you just need not to be there ;]


Not to be where? not to fight in the air?

There are times when that's possible, and there are times when its not.

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RE: Midget sub penetrates harbor! - 4/30/2015 3:43:08 PM   
Mike McCreery


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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert


quote:

ORIGINAL: Wargmr

I believe some players have missed the obvious.

Sometimes to win an air war you just need not to be there ;]


Not to be where? not to fight in the air?

There are times when that's possible, and there are times when its not.


I play DBB so maybe it is true for stock.

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Post #: 4147
RE: Midget sub penetrates harbor! - 4/30/2015 4:21:56 PM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9297
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From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline 		Holy cow, those air losses. I feel like my game against MM has been pretty similar in the air. Here's my side's losses as of 12/31/43 - pretty similar date, scenario 1 also. And we even have MechaGroups happening in our game.

So yeah. His pools have got to be hurting on some models:
P-40K
C-47
F4F maybe, but maybe he's not even using it
TBF
Hurricane-c
B-24D1
P-38H
Vengeance I

...really, a lot of models. I bet he has a lot of "ghost" groups, or groups using downgraded airframes.




Attachment (1)

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RE: Midget sub penetrates harbor! - 4/30/2015 4:35:09 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
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Status: offline 		Reinforcing Tavoy this turn, but most troops probably won't get there till next turn, we will see if they can hold.

Got tired of working on the turn and sent it away. Probably shouldn't have, but that is life.

Had a double repair day in the Sam J -- they aren't as common as the double repair days for the Ki202.

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Post #: 4149
RE: Midget sub penetrates harbor! - 4/30/2015 5:22:46 PM   
Lowpe


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Status: offline 		Quick and dirty intel analysis for the last 100 turns...

Pearl Harbor....off the charts.

Ports not really covered (i.e. no subs) showing lots of activity: Auckland, Tabitueia, Tarawa, Sydney

Expect ports: Colombo, Calcutta, Tinian, San Fran

I will dispatch some subs to Sydney and Auckland. Auckland might be a target for sub dropped mines and midget sub attacks. It has not seen hide nor hair of the IJN all game. We can't have that!

< Message edited by Lowpe -- 4/30/2015 6:23:14 PM >

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RE: Midget sub penetrates harbor! - 4/30/2015 5:40:53 PM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wargmr

I believe some players have missed the obvious.

Sometimes to win an air war you just need not to be there ;]



Are you talking about it from the Allied perspective...avoiding the early war against Japan?

I try very hard to stay out of Jugs range (10 hex), only put planes on runways within 22 hexes with overwhelming CAP including George at high altitude, plus night fighters, plus AA. Other than that I try to keep planes at 0 DL bases far, far away. Still things slip occasionally.

Offensively, I will fly planes forward for one day missions, and fly them out again, preferably on railroads so I can save the damaged planes. This is of course horrendously gamey, as there is no way you could have done it to the degree I do in real life. But, then this is a game.

I try to stay away from Islands, and if forced to go there go with low SR planes.

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RE: Midget sub penetrates harbor! - 4/30/2015 6:07:34 PM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

Holy cow, those air losses. I feel like my game against MM has been pretty similar in the air. Here's my side's losses as of 12/31/43 - pretty similar date, scenario 1 also. And we even have MechaGroups happening in our game.

So yeah. His pools have got to be hurting on some models:
P-40K 715
C-47 1008 (jan 7, 1944)
F4F maybe, but maybe he's not even using it 890
TBF 1104
Hurricane-c 877
B-24D1 338
P-38H 267
Vengeance I 550

...really, a lot of models. I bet he has a lot of "ghost" groups, or groups using downgraded airframes.



I looked up totals on a spreadsheet. Bolded above, Allies get way too many planes, but I guess they need them. Japan gets way, way too many planes.

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RE: Midget sub penetrates harbor! - 4/30/2015 6:18:52 PM   
Lowpe


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Status: offline 		Quick quiz!

Allies have two plane models with over 5,000 totals --- can you name them?

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RE: Midget sub penetrates harbor! - 4/30/2015 6:56:50 PM   
JocMeister

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Yummy. P47s...


Here, does this bring back fond memories? Early 44.





Fond memories indeed.

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RE: Midget sub penetrates harbor! - 4/30/2015 7:09:03 PM   
koniu


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Quick quiz!

Allies have two plane models with over 5,000 totals --- can you name them?

F6F and F4F?

F6F - both 3 and 5 variant
F4F - F4F+FM variants

i will also bet F4U


< Message edited by koniu -- 4/30/2015 8:13:13 PM >

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RE: Midget sub penetrates harbor! - 4/30/2015 7:22:59 PM   
JocMeister

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

I managed to find one screenshot where Joc had lost a total of 56 P38H in mid Dec...very close to my date.

I am at over 200, so Allies have suffered a fair amount of losses, but not to really critical planes like the P47 (which in truth I try to avoid).

This comparison to Obvert vs Jocke, just goes to show me how much more bloody the air war is going to get!!!! I need to plan accordingly.


I didn´t use the P38H much. With PDU ON its not really competitive. Especially with the "2nd MVR band" HR. I relied almost exclusively on P47/Corsair for most of 44 and 45. Late in the war P38s were used as ablative 4E escort as I had good pools of them by then. Hellcats were also used for this. Pretty much only Corsairs, P47s and Spit VIIs that saw combat in the last two years. The rest were used as backwater bomber pilot trainers at bases in OZ! This probably skewers the results a bit. I also believe our game got extremely bloody in the last 6 months when I started the air campaign against the Home Islands. By then I had the P47N which is just insanely good and arrives in insane numbers (by Allied standards) of 100 planes per month. That plane is just unbelievably good.

I´m not sure but I think Erik may have been starting to have some problems with pilot quality in the end?

This is one of the reasons I really dislike PDU ON. It really messes up the air war. Especially for the Allied player who has to resort to all kinds of strange behavior to survive the Tojo/Frank hordes. In the end I don´t think it makes for a fun experience for either player. As the Japanese player you can make pretty much unlimited numbers of the best models but this leads to the allied player using only the best allied planes. And in the end the Jap player comes up with the shortest straw anyway because nothing beats a P47. Not sure where the fun is found in both sides using 2-4 models while 50 models that are in the game is simply not used. I really wish we would see more PDU OFF games because I´m convinced it will make a more entertaining game to play and follow. Hell I even saw Mowhawks and Boomerangs in combat in Eriks and GJs game. How can that not be cool?!

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Post #: 4156
RE: Midget sub penetrates harbor! - 4/30/2015 7:25:10 PM   
JocMeister

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: koniu

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Quick quiz!

Allies have two plane models with over 5,000 totals --- can you name them?

F6F and F4F?

F6F - both 3 and 5 variant
F4F - F4F+FM variants

i will also bet F4U



Wildkittens and Hellcats are my bet too. Not a chance the F4U gets over 5000 planes.

I know for a fact I had a couple of thousand Kittens in the pools when the war was over. As soon as the Hellcat came online I phased it out everywhere including the CVEs.

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Post #: 4157
RE: Midget sub penetrates harbor! - 4/30/2015 7:52:06 PM   
Lokasenna


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Quick quiz!

Allies have two plane models with over 5,000 totals --- can you name them?


Models, or lines? If it's individual models... I find that a little hard to believe, without doing up the numbers. It isn't until late war that the Allies get models with 200+ production each month, and they'd need to have that for over 2 years...

If it's production lines, then I'm going with 2 of the following:

TBF/TBM Avengers
Hellcats
Helldivers
Wildkittens - there are big differences between the F4F and FM models, though
P-40 with its various models, but again big differences

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Post #: 4158
RE: Midget sub penetrates harbor! - 5/1/2015 2:26:58 AM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
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Status: offline 		F6F-5 and the final Avenger are both over 5000, with the avenger over 5300 making it the most numerous Allied plane.

This inlcudes: production, replacement, and newly arriving squadrons.

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Post #: 4159
RE: Midget sub penetrates harbor! - 5/1/2015 3:10:16 AM   
Lowpe


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Status: offline 		Dec 24, 1943

Christmas Eve!; no night bombing.

The first day in five days where Japan loses more planes than the Allies 13-5.

Allied bombers show up in Indochina, where they sweep heavily and then bomb the troops north of Bangkok. Not very effective...thank you x3 terrain!

Chungking attacked...Chinese lose 235 squads destroyed and 400 more disabled (combat squads) and forts drop another level. Will rest for a day or two and attack again...the end is nigh!!!!

I should be able to attack again with 5000+ AV with the arrival of 600 AV in two days, and in a week another 450 will join. What a New Years Present, knock on wood! Chinese defenders will be below 2000 in AV.



The first and most effective of many raids on the dirt road north of Bangkok.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Lowpe -- 5/1/2015 4:15:23 AM >

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RE: Midget sub penetrates harbor! - 5/1/2015 3:14:15 AM   
Lowpe


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Status: offline 		Sadly, Tavoy falls.

I should have moved troops there a few days ago, but I had mentally written them off.

The Chiang Mai defenders...all troops except one ART unit and one sacrificial IJAAF Eng unit escape, these guys are forced to retreat but don't suffer much at all (1-2 squads destroyed). Next stop Raheng, Pisanuloke and then R&R in Singers.

2 more factories repair for the Ki202.

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RE: Midget sub penetrates harbor! - 5/1/2015 4:13:45 PM   
Malagant

 

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Status: offline 		What is the current fort level in Chungking?

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RE: Midget sub penetrates harbor! - 5/1/2015 5:00:23 PM   
JocMeister

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Sadly, Tavoy falls.

I should have moved troops there a few days ago, but I had mentally written them off.

The Chiang Mai defenders...all troops except one ART unit and one sacrificial IJAAF Eng unit escape, these guys are forced to retreat but don't suffer much at all (1-2 squads destroyed). Next stop Raheng, Pisanuloke and then R&R in Singers.

2 more factories repair for the Ki202.


Try to keep him out of Bangkok and the plains in central Thailand for as long as possible. Once allied armor gets into the plains they will reach the Chinese border in just a week or two. Don´t count on supply being an issue for him. It won´t.

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RE: Midget sub penetrates harbor! - 5/1/2015 5:46:10 PM   
ny59giants


Posts: 9869
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Status: offline 		When it comes to A2A there are many factors to consider and not all of us players have the same experience.
House Rules - some have set ceilings for different years or manuever band restrictions
Stock vs DBB air data - I play with DBB, so it will differ on how high a particular model can get.
PDU (on or off) - another major influence on results.

So when a player post here, which of these are they referring to??

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RE: Midget sub penetrates harbor! - 5/1/2015 5:51:49 PM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Malagant

What is the current fort level in Chungking?


Chungking - forts level 2. 750 fresh AV moving in, will get me darn close to 5K, while Chinese AV will be under 1,000.

Will attack in 2 again in 2 days.

< Message edited by Lowpe -- 5/1/2015 6:52:27 PM >

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RE: Midget sub penetrates harbor! - 5/1/2015 5:54:14 PM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Sadly, Tavoy falls.

I should have moved troops there a few days ago, but I had mentally written them off.

The Chiang Mai defenders...all troops except one ART unit and one sacrificial IJAAF Eng unit escape, these guys are forced to retreat but don't suffer much at all (1-2 squads destroyed). Next stop Raheng, Pisanuloke and then R&R in Singers.

2 more factories repair for the Ki202.


Try to keep him out of Bangkok and the plains in central Thailand for as long as possible. Once allied armor gets into the plains they will reach the Chinese border in just a week or two. Don´t count on supply being an issue for him. It won´t.


Excellent advice ....if I can delay long enough here...

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Post #: 4166
RE: Midget sub penetrates harbor! - 5/1/2015 5:56:05 PM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

When it comes to A2A there are many factors to consider and not all of us players have the same experience.
House Rules - some have set ceilings for different years or manuever band restrictions
Stock vs DBB air data - I play with DBB, so it will differ on how high a particular model can get.
PDU (on or off) - another major influence on results.

So when a player post here, which of these are they referring to??


Michael, quite correct, plus a biggie is which scenario...

So, Obvert vs Jocke & Wargmr vs NJP were scenario 1, pdu on, realistic r&d.

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Post #: 4167
RE: Midget sub penetrates harbor! - 5/1/2015 5:56:48 PM   
Lokasenna


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Malagant

What is the current fort level in Chungking?


Chungking - forts level 2. 750 fresh AV moving in, will get me darn close to 5K, while Chinese AV will be under 1,000.

Will attack in 2 again in 2 days.


Doublecheck your division leaders... I didn't settle for anything less than 61 Land AND 61 Inspiration, as both affect effective AV. You want to be getting at least 1:1 odds, or more, for a good chance to continue to drop the forts. Once forts are at 1, the city will be yours in just 2-3 more properly-timed attacks. With them at 2, the end is definitely in sight, but you want to be careful that you don't squander an attack. Especially since you are at the end of 1943 already. If it costs you a week... it might make all the difference in terms of roadblocking the Allies somewhere else.

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Post #: 4168
RE: Midget sub penetrates harbor! - 5/1/2015 5:59:48 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
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Status: offline 		Turn is away and several operations, small are ongoing.

Georges sweep Cap Nicobar and Chiang Mai.

CL/DD squadron will bombard Port Blair, after it is swept by a destroyer squadron. Have some hopes for dealing some good damage here. Nothing like what the Allies can do, but for Japan should be ok. All ships not detected.

Several subs are laying mines at Marcus, four CLs are moving towards Marcus for a lightning raid on the shipping there if they can figure out how to get within striking range.

Five Iboats dispatched to Auckland.

Four Iboats patrolling off Colombo and the west map edge. No gold yet, but they will keep searching.

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Post #: 4169
RE: Midget sub penetrates harbor! - 5/1/2015 9:46:08 PM   
obvert


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Malagant

What is the current fort level in Chungking?


Chungking - forts level 2. 750 fresh AV moving in, will get me darn close to 5K, while Chinese AV will be under 1,000.

Will attack in 2 again in 2 days.


Doublecheck your division leaders... I didn't settle for anything less than 61 Land AND 61 Inspiration, as both affect effective AV. You want to be getting at least 1:1 odds, or more, for a good chance to continue to drop the forts. Once forts are at 1, the city will be yours in just 2-3 more properly-timed attacks. With them at 2, the end is definitely in sight, but you want to be careful that you don't squander an attack. Especially since you are at the end of 1943 already. If it costs you a week... it might make all the difference in terms of roadblocking the Allies somewhere else.


There are so many good generals in the IJA it's crazy. I just choose high everything!



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