Will the map text ever get cleaned up?

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Brother against Brother: The Drawing of the Sword >> Will the map text ever get cleaned up?

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Will the map text ever get cleaned up? - 5/3/2015 6:48:33 PM

FroBodine

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The map text only looks clean and sharp at one zoom level, what I assume is the default zoom.

Any other zoom, in or out, and the text starts to break up and look very bad. On some zoom levels it is downright unreadable. I don't remember any game in recent history that has such poor map text.

Is there any work being put into sharpening up the text so it looks good at other zoom levels?

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RE: Will the map text ever get cleaned up? - 5/3/2015 7:54:10 PM

miller7219

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Yeah, I agree. And the casualty numbers that stream above units during combat resolution often get jumbled and are unreadable. You'd think easily seen stuff like this would have gotten caught and polished up during pre-release beta.

Such a great game engine, but it gets my vote for Matrix's most unpolished release since Command Modern Air Naval Operations. CMANO was essentially released as a "beta" and it wasn't until a year and a half later when they released the "Wargame of the Year Edition" was it finally ready for prime time and the title of the defacto modern naval warfare sim. I feel like we're going down the same path here with BaB. I guess if BaB utimately fulfills it's destiny by polishing itself up a bunch and to allow it to claim the defacto brigade/regimental level Civil War sim its model is capable of then I can live with it. But honestly, I'd rather have waited 6-10 months longer and gotten an already polished version!

I think in the end it boils down to dollars and publishers/developers of niche products (like wargames are) don't have the dollars anymore to invest in proper pre-release beta work. As a 30-year, totally addicted wargamer, I guess I don't mind doing free beta testing and won't complain too much...so long as issues get fixed and progress is made towards providing a solid end result.

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RE: Will the map text ever get cleaned up? - 5/3/2015 8:30:26 PM

Yogi the Great

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Well for me personally it is the game play that I value.

Graphics are always nice to see but do nothing toward a good game system.

Glitz is always fun, but doesn't improve a game system.

Clear map text is nice, a good game system is better.

People always complained about Tillers graphics and old system while others appreciated the board game style.

An old saying is Perception is more important than reality, so I understand how quickly people some times focus on glitz, graphics, sound etc. and make their decisions of if a game is good on that. I personally prefer to seek the reality which to me in this case is an innovative, ground breaking system presenting some of the real challenges of civil war battle in an impressive and perhaps a new standard for the genre. These are also among the best play maps around, I can live with a blurry text now and then.

I'm just an old war board game Grognard beyond my prime. I like glitz, I like graphics, I like sound effects, but I'll trade them all for a good game system. That said most game series I remember do advance in all those things as time goes on.

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RE: Will the map text ever get cleaned up? - 5/3/2015 9:35:16 PM

SwampYankee68

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We're not talking about glitz... At least I'm not... But the way in which information on attack resolution is transmitted to the player is in my opinio also early Beta, not release. I hope it gets cleaned up. The game engine looks like a real winner. The maps are gorgeous. However the way in which unit data is shown is poor, and the unit "chits" at present are very crude.

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RE: Will the map text ever get cleaned up? - 5/3/2015 10:06:36 PM

miller7219

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The game engine is a gem, no question. I'm not one of those graphics before all else people either. We're talking about user friendliness of the UI and graphics/displays that are important for the player to understand what's going on and manage the great engine. These issues are why we're scratching our head and wondering did anyone ever play this thing before release day?

It will all get addressed in time. Western Civilization has always stood behind their products and improved them lovingly in the past. I'm comfortable at this time BaB will get the same love.

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RE: Will the map text ever get cleaned up? - 5/3/2015 11:38:55 PM

Duck Doc

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Well, I didn't put out the time and effort to beta test so, I can't complain too much about those that did. Glad all the time and effort got us this far for sure. Agreed this game engine is a gem. This is indeed the game of my day dreams. Spent years thinking about it. Hope I can be helpful in making it better even now. We are blessed with developers who are willing to keep working on it. Just sayin'...

quote:

ORIGINAL: miller7219

The game engine is a gem, no question. I'm not one of those graphics before all else people either. We're talking about user friendliness of the UI and graphics/displays that are important for the player to understand what's going on and manage the great engine. These issues are why we're scratching our head and wondering did anyone ever play this thing before release day?

It will all get addressed in time. Western Civilization has always stood behind their products and improved them lovingly in the past. I'm comfortable at this time BaB will get the same love.

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Post #: 6

RE: Will the map text ever get cleaned up? - 5/3/2015 11:55:02 PM

Yogi the Great

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quote:

The game engine looks like a real winner. The maps are gorgeous.

quote:

The game engine is a gem, no question.

quote:

Glad all the time and effort got us this far for sure. Agreed this game engine is a gem. This is indeed the game of my day dreams.

Thanks that's really all I was trying to point out. We can spend so much time looking for things to complain about we miss the most important thing.

Like all of you I look forward to many improvements including many of the things you have mentioned. There is time for that and I know the developers are determined to continue doing so. Hopefully future games in the series will create and be among the best civil war series of games ever and the 5+ years spent on it before release will have been worth all the effort and create a new standard for our hobby. If/when they do add more and better glitz, graphics, sounds etc. I will enjoy them as much as anybody. I just don't need them to appreciate it as a "gem".

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RE: Will the map text ever get cleaned up? - 5/4/2015 7:57:27 AM

Gil R.

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What is the problem with the map text? I spent five minutes or so looking at map text at various zoom levels, and see nothing but perfectly legible text. I'm using a Lenovo laptop that I bought about a year ago, so I doubt it is my system. Can you point me to specific map labels that become unreadable at some zoom levels, or take some screenshots? Is anyone else having this problem?

< Message edited by Gil R. -- 5/4/2015 8:59:30 AM >

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RE: Will the map text ever get cleaned up? - 5/4/2015 10:46:06 AM

berto

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gil R.

What is the problem with the map text? I spent five minutes or so looking at map text at various zoom levels, and see nothing but perfectly legible text.

quote:

Is anyone else having this problem?

Not really. Looks acceptably fine to me, at all levels of zoom.

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RE: Will the map text ever get cleaned up? - 5/4/2015 12:32:11 PM

gwgardner

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looks good at all zoom levels for me. I'm using 1680x1050 res. Screenshot shows zoomed way in and way out.

The only map where I've seen any odd text is Wilson's Creek, where the creek name is offset, making it look blurred, but that has nothing to do with zoom level.

My suggestion is for OP to post his resolution and which map he's referring to, to see if correction is needed.

Attachment (1)

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RE: Will the map text ever get cleaned up? - 5/4/2015 3:28:18 PM

ericbabe

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Put it on the wish list! I presume you mean the unit text, which is the stuff that looks the worst when it scales. I will have to write my own font manager for this since the text code in the graphics libraries I'm using won't do this sort of thing.

< Message edited by ericbabe -- 5/4/2015 4:54:19 PM >

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RE: Will the map text ever get cleaned up? - 5/4/2015 6:55:21 PM

FroBodine

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Yes, I am talking about unit text. It obviously looks bad at most zoom levels except the default one. I apologize if I said map text and folks thought I was crazy.

I also don't need fancy graphics and glitz, but I do want readable unit text when I zoom the map in and out a bit.

Thank you for putting it on your wish list, Eric.

This screenshot is only two levels zoomed out from the default, and the text is all broken up. I am at 1920x1200 resolution

< Message edited by jglazier -- 5/4/2015 8:02:58 PM >

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RE: Will the map text ever get cleaned up? - 5/4/2015 7:48:23 PM

Gil R.

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jglazier

Yes, I am talking about unit text. It obviously looks bad at most zoom levels except the default one. I apologize if I said map text and folks thought I was crazy.

Oh, so it is the unit labels, and not the map text. I was wondering about that.

Fortunately, those five minutes I spent investigating were not in vain, since 1) I never tire of looking at our maps, and 2) I used most of that time to plan out the newest scenario I'm working on, a Williamsburg 2-player scenario that makes maximum use of the the map and may well prove to be the best scenario for PBEM games in BAB. Expect an early beta version of it to be posted soon for feedback.

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RE: Will the map text ever get cleaned up? - 5/4/2015 8:58:08 PM

berto

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It's to be expected that at extreme levels of zoom out, the unit text will be less legible. You can only fit so many (rather, so few!) pixels into an ever shrinking space. It's futile to think that when most zoomed out, you have enough pixels to form all letters "properly".

If it bothers people so much, maybe the answer is to drop unit text altogether at the more extreme zoom out levels. Or maybe drop the text "shadow"?

For myself, I'm okay with it as is. So long as the unit text is reasonably legible at most levels of zoom, I'm satisfied.

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RE: Will the map text ever get cleaned up? - 5/4/2015 11:30:51 PM

FroBodine

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Again, I only zoomed out two levels, which is not much at all. For a $50 game, in my opinion, the unit text is not good enough.

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RE: Will the map text ever get cleaned up? - 5/5/2015 12:45:16 AM

berto

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quote:

ORIGINAL: berto

If it bothers people so much, maybe the answer is to drop unit text altogether at the more extreme zoom out levels.

Unit Drawing Options > Toggle Names (OFF)

With that toggled OFF, a less cluttered map display. Ah, that's better!

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RE: Will the map text ever get cleaned up? - 5/5/2015 1:15:11 AM

FroBodine

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Once again, the fonts get messed up way before any extreme zoom levels.

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RE: Will the map text ever get cleaned up? - 5/5/2015 10:29:30 AM

Yogi the Great

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Maybe you need to get prescription lenses in those goggles.

Just some fun from an old guy. I have trouble reading and seeing even good graphics and texts and have to keep my trusty reader +2.75 glasses next to my computer to do anything. Seems like every year the magnification factor of my glasses gets higher. All kidding aside though, it is nice when graphics and print on games are nice and clear.

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RE: Will the map text ever get cleaned up? - 5/5/2015 11:25:25 AM

Erik Rutins

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Regarding the unit text, we've discussed what we could do to change how it works. This is purely an issue due to how the game engine zooms and the zoom capability was added after the graphics and text capability. It's not worth explaining the details, but changing how the unit text scales would be a fair amount of work and require redoing part of the engine. We may yet embark on this, but only after we make all the easier improvements. It's also possible this may have to wait for a future release.

Regards,

- Erik

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RE: Will the map text ever get cleaned up? - 5/5/2015 6:55:18 PM

FroBodine

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I'll have you know, Yogi, that ol' Pappy shot down many Japanese planes with those goggles. I think the prescription was just fine!

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RE: Will the map text ever get cleaned up? - 5/5/2015 7:44:38 PM

Yogi the Great

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jglazier

I'll have you know, Yogi, that ol' Pappy shot down many Japanese planes with those goggles. I think the prescription was just fine!

I see you're about to work on shooting those planes down yourself with "Order of Battle: Pacific". Do you recommend the game? I have a few of the Panzer Corp series. It can be fun at times but a little too abstract and low in realism for me. However I was thinking of purchasing this one and have been looking at the screenshots and forum now an then. Was wondering what you thought of it. My father fought in the Pacific and it can be hard to find good games covering the topic.

Anyway thanks for taking my attempt at poking a little fun your way with the goggles.

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RE: Will the map text ever get cleaned up? - 5/6/2015 1:04:42 PM

FroBodine

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I think Order of Battle: Pacific is excellent. It has some very good and interesting game mechanics that make it a little deeper than Panzer Corps. The supply system is brilliant, and is very similar to Unity of Command, if you have played that game. Force size is also limited by command points for each type, e.g. ground, air and naval, so you can't just build up a force of all super tanks. It is really a nice balance mechanic. The naval and air combat just feels right, you can tell they put a lot of thought into this part of the game.

Plus, the game is just super fun, the scenarios are excellently designed, if a little long, and the graphics are much, much nicer than Panzer Corps, which is always a plus. There is still room for improvement of course, but the game is solid and mostly bug free. It's still the initial release of the game. But, Panzer Corps was a little rough around the edges at release, too, as is most games.

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RE: Will the map text ever get cleaned up? - 5/7/2015 1:41:04 AM

MikeS369

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Getting rid of the stoke on the text will help clean it up at zoomed out levels.

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RE: Will the map text ever get cleaned up? - 5/7/2015 6:53:00 AM

Chromey

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If the text didnt blur out when the game auto zoomed out during combat phase I wouldnt need to force it to stay zoomed in. When I start playing the bigger battles like Manasas Im gonna need to read the regiment text when zoomed out during combat phase. I suggest perhaps instead of typing out the whole State of the regiment you abbreviate it so it will be able to scale better when zoomed out with the regimental numbers and a L or R section if needed like 49 PA/L etc. Also keep up the work with the AI calculations so that they work faster! Some of us like to binge game and these 2 minute wait times between turns start to hurt! Im playing on a 4ghz 4 core processor here and expect faster results from these combat calculations!

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