RE: Unorthodox

Matrix Games Forums

Forums Register Login Photo Gallery Member List Search Calendars FAQ

My Profile Inbox Address Book My Subscription My Forums Log Out

RE: Unorthodox

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> After Action Reports >> RE: Unorthodox

Page: << < prev 149 150 [151] 152 153 next > >>

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: Unorthodox - 5/19/2015 11:58:31 AM

Lowpe

Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

That is a pretty pathetic CAP for coming up on the HI. If that is all he has you have a very good shot at this.

LBA to whittle it down. CV strike to punch through.

I am reminded of your AAR when you where happy to lose ships as long as the landing and supplies made it. Well, maybe not happy, but you get my point.

My carriers are at Sendai, disbanded and not spotted. I was thinking a full speed run straight to the east...I have to dodge his night search, and then be in range to strike the invasion fleet, but hopefully outside of his deathstar.

I am tenatively planning setting all planes to strike tomorrow (do this turn, then strike next turn), with one more day of air fighting. 600 fighters, including Georges and Jacks now at Ominato. I guess I will just load up Ominato and strike from there with everything and see what happens.

Still not sure where he will invade, but my ground forces can't stop him anywhere but Kushiro, and maybe not even there.

< Message edited by Lowpe -- 5/19/2015 1:00:02 PM >

(in reply to JocMeister)

Post #: 4501

RE: Unorthodox - 5/19/2015 12:38:21 PM

topeverest

Posts: 3376
Joined: 10/17/2007
From: Houston, TX - USA
Status: offline

This formation is either supreme confidence on the allies part, or ignorance of Kami power.

Have you ever conducted a late war maximum empire counterpulse? Let me suggest now is that time.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

The Deathstar strikes at shipping around the Ominato area, after sweeping and bombing Ominato. We lose a dozen or so xaks that hadn't finished unloading, and his Corsair sweeps are hard on what is here right now mostly second line fighters.

Georges and Jacks only in numbers at Kushiro where they well.

Plan losses for the day are less than 2-1 in the Allies flavor, but not close to 1-1.

Time to get busy...

_____________________________

Andy M

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 4502

RE: Unorthodox - 5/19/2015 12:41:10 PM

topeverest

Posts: 3376
Joined: 10/17/2007
From: Houston, TX - USA
Status: offline

There are several best demonstrated practices, but first you need to choose your objective - the invasion fleet or the CV's you cant get both.

Considering this probably is the death star, only a coordinated sub, midget sub, small combatant, LBA, CV, surface fleet, and kami approach has a meaningful chance of success. good news is that he chose to leave his LBA behind. You have a good chance.

_____________________________

Andy M

(in reply to topeverest)

Post #: 4503

RE: Unorthodox - 5/19/2015 12:44:01 PM

Encircled

Posts: 2024
Joined: 12/30/2010
From: Northern England
Status: offline

Looks like the Emilys played the role of the "Y" Fighters to perfection

"Stay on target"

_____________________________

(in reply to topeverest)

Post #: 4504

RE: Unorthodox - 5/19/2015 1:47:56 PM

JocMeister

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline

At this stage I would suggest going after his carriers. Without them whatever he lands is doomed and it will slow down his advance all over the map. He can�t fly stuff in (range) and under your LBA he can�t ship stuff in. I�m sure Erik can provide some info. He was very good at setting up big combined strikes. Although he needed the KB to punch through eventually my CAP was 3000. Not 300.

I think your opponent is suffering from victory decease. Combine kamis, well escorted LBA, CV strikes and ships all at once and there is no reason his ships shouldn�t end up at the bottom!

(in reply to Encircled)

Post #: 4505

RE: Unorthodox - 5/19/2015 2:10:14 PM

Miller

Posts: 2226
Joined: 9/14/2004
From: Ashington, England.
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

At this stage I would suggest going after his carriers. Without them whatever he lands is doomed and it will slow down his advance all over the map. He can�t fly stuff in (range) and under your LBA he can�t ship stuff in. I�m sure Erik can provide some info. He was very good at setting up big combined strikes. Although he needed the KB to punch through eventually my CAP was 3000. Not 300.

I think your opponent is suffering from victory decease. Combine kamis, well escorted LBA, CV strikes and ships all at once and there is no reason his ships shouldn�t end up at the bottom!

I agree 100% with this. A 300 plane CAP is nothing and will soon evaporate in the face of wave after wave of attacks. Once his carriers are knocked out you can rout his invasion forces at your leisure. In my current game my opponent invaded Hokkaido in June 44 with almost total surprise, but after he landed his troops ashore his covering CVEs fled the area in the face of the KB. A few weeks of almost unopposed bombing of his troops has them on the verge of collapse. I think this will play out the same way. Treble check your airgroups are set to use torps and make sure there are plenty in stock for them to be used! Good luck....

(in reply to JocMeister)

Post #: 4506

RE: Unorthodox - 5/19/2015 2:20:05 PM

Lowpe

Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline

Thanks for the words of encouragement.

Turn is away.

I am setting up to hit him with everything I have tomorrow. Planes, ships, midgets, mtbs, mines, subs, the works. Nothing will be held back. Good advice on picking a target.

600 plane fighter CAP at Ominato today, should be a dozen cargo ships unloading (so it isn't too gamey).

I don't have kamikaze yet, but I started setting up squadrons for them today.

I will throw everything at him even the kitchen sink. Hopefully my fighters do well today over Ominato.

(in reply to Miller)

Post #: 4507

RE: Unorthodox - 5/19/2015 2:28:20 PM

Lowpe

Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline

Here is a rough look at the squadrons available. This was done after the replay, so I flew in even more squadrons. I sure hope I can assemble enough.

You mention the CAP is pathetic, but I am not so sure given how land based air works...well, tomorrow will be a big day.

Attachment (1)

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 4508

RE: Unorthodox - 5/19/2015 2:38:10 PM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

So. For me it was about just what others have stated, which was combined strikes by many different types of planes at different altitudes and from different big airbases. You want to get big strikes, but a lot of them too, plus naval interdiction. All kinds of big and small TFs running into his TFs. The CVs are most useful as they provide the concentrated coordination, but if they strike in the morning, and LBA is close enough they go twice. After everything else has done its work, the Allied TFs might be slightly less concentrated and effective, and the afternoon can be the better one then.

Don't be afraid to use your best fighters as escorts along with your best pilots. While it seems tragic to lose 100 80exp pilots in one day, if you sink enough CVs so he can't protect this invasion that's more than worth it. The best of the best here.

Sometimes also your best strike happens after the first landing and taking of a base when you can sweep a captured base and strike the same day. He'll have to hang out a long time here with the CVs to keep any foothold gained, and your job is to wreck that foothold and anything protecting it. Not just the landing itself. You could hold everything back and let him have it knowing this, and then smash once you can use sweeps and get your BBs in there to shut airfields. This doesn't appear to be at the level of what GreyJoy brought to invade the Kuriles against rader.

This feels too early to me for this part of the Kuriles, so close to Honshu and Hokkaido. With the losses incurred in your game his airframe pools can't be too deep, right? This might have looked really tempting seeing your garrisons, but he's got to hold that area against everything your have for the remainder. You do get a package of troops too once he invades.

If you have any airframe factories off now turn them on. Get the economy pumping.

< Message edited by obvert -- 5/19/2015 3:41:48 PM >

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to Miller)

Post #: 4509

RE: Unorthodox - 5/19/2015 2:39:41 PM

Lowpe

Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Miller

quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

At this stage I would suggest going after his carriers. Without them whatever he lands is doomed and it will slow down his advance all over the map. He can�t fly stuff in (range) and under your LBA he can�t ship stuff in. I�m sure Erik can provide some info. He was very good at setting up big combined strikes. Although he needed the KB to punch through eventually my CAP was 3000. Not 300.

I think your opponent is suffering from victory decease. Combine kamis, well escorted LBA, CV strikes and ships all at once and there is no reason his ships shouldn�t end up at the bottom!

I agree 100% with this. A 300 plane CAP is nothing and will soon evaporate in the face of wave after wave of attacks. Once his carriers are knocked out you can rout his invasion forces at your leisure. In my current game my opponent invaded Hokkaido in June 44 with almost total surprise, but after he landed his troops ashore his covering CVEs fled the area in the face of the KB. A few weeks of almost unopposed bombing of his troops has them on the verge of collapse. I think this will play out the same way. Treble check your airgroups are set to use torps and make sure there are plenty in stock for them to be used! Good luck....

That is really heartening to hear...how much did he land on Hokkaido? Tiemanj is, I am sure, bringing everything he has.

(in reply to Miller)

Post #: 4510

RE: Unorthodox - 5/19/2015 2:44:23 PM

Lowpe

Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

So. For me it was about just what others have stated, which was combined strikes by may different types of planes at different altitudes and from different big airbases. You want to get big strikes, but a lot of them too, plus naval interdiction. All kinds of big and small TFs running into his TFs. The CVs are most useful as they provide the concentrated coordination, but if they strike in the morning, and LBA is close enough they go twice. After everything ese has done its wrk, the Allied TFs might be slightly less concentrated and effective, and the afternoon can be the better one then.

Don't be afraid to use your best fighters as escorts along with your best pilots. While it seems tragic to lose 100 80exp pilots in one day, if you sink enough CVs so he can't protect this invasion that's more than worth it. The best of the best here. Sometimes also your best strike happens after the first landing and taking of a base when you can sweep a captured base and strike the same day. He'll have to hang out a long time here with the CVs to keep any foothold gained, and your job is to wreck that foothold and anything protecting it. Not just the landing itself. You could hold everything back and let him have it knowing this, and then smash once you can use sweeps and get your BBs in there to shut airfields. This doesn't appear to be at the level of what GreyJoy brought to invade the Kuriles against rader.

This feels too early to me for this part of the Kuriles, so close to Honshu and Hokkaido. With the losses incurred in your game his airframe pools can't be too deep, right? This might have looked really tempting seeing your garrisons, but he's got to hold that area against everything your have for the remainder. You do get a package of troops too once he invades.

If you have any airframe factories off now turn them on. Get the economy pumping.

We will see how this next day plays out...hoping for a good air to air day now that George and Jack and Tonies are on the scene in better numbers. Every day I will go stronger...not so the Allies, they will need to rely upon convoys in, and then there will be a tipping point somewhere.

(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 4511

RE: Unorthodox - 5/19/2015 2:46:24 PM

Lowpe

Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline

I still have over 500 excellently trained Betties,Emilies on night naval attack with torpedoes. And lots of Jakes on night naval search as well as one squadron of Mavis.

Gotta hit something!

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 4512

RE: Unorthodox - 5/19/2015 3:14:11 PM

Miller

Posts: 2226
Joined: 9/14/2004
From: Ashington, England.
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Miller

quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

At this stage I would suggest going after his carriers. Without them whatever he lands is doomed and it will slow down his advance all over the map. He can�t fly stuff in (range) and under your LBA he can�t ship stuff in. I�m sure Erik can provide some info. He was very good at setting up big combined strikes. Although he needed the KB to punch through eventually my CAP was 3000. Not 300.

I think your opponent is suffering from victory decease. Combine kamis, well escorted LBA, CV strikes and ships all at once and there is no reason his ships shouldn�t end up at the bottom!

I agree 100% with this. A 300 plane CAP is nothing and will soon evaporate in the face of wave after wave of attacks. Once his carriers are knocked out you can rout his invasion forces at your leisure. In my current game my opponent invaded Hokkaido in June 44 with almost total surprise, but after he landed his troops ashore his covering CVEs fled the area in the face of the KB. A few weeks of almost unopposed bombing of his troops has them on the verge of collapse. I think this will play out the same way. Treble check your airgroups are set to use torps and make sure there are plenty in stock for them to be used! Good luck....

That is really heartening to hear...how much did he land on Hokkaido? Tiemanj is, I am sure, bringing everything he has.

I would say about 3000AV, half Inf half tanks. As soon as he lands you will get ten crappy infantry divs in the HI that free up any unrestricted units you have for the counter landings. Strat move them all to Ominato (I assume it's built up to port level 9). Then depending on where he lands and how the overall battle develops get them loaded up and wherever you can see a weak spot send them there. There is no great hurry to get them ashore, bomb his airfields to prevent the build up of forts and/or fighter defences. Shuttle your BBs, one group bombards one night whilst the other reloads, with the distances involved you should at least one bomardment in every other day. What is his current CV strength?

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 4513

RE: Unorthodox - 5/19/2015 3:46:05 PM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

I still have over 500 excellently trained Betties,Emilies on night naval attack with torpedoes. And lots of Jakes on night naval search as well as one squadron of Mavis.

Gotta hit something!

This is most likely a waste. At least you'll have them for the next day strikes. Brutality in numbers is all that will carry the day. That's potentially 300 planes saved but 10 torpedoes not in CVs to me. I would use Emilys and Jakes to add search though, as a high DL is the biggest determining factor in getting good strikes against naval targets.

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 4514

RE: Unorthodox - 5/19/2015 4:11:31 PM

Lowpe

Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

I still have over 500 excellently trained Betties,Emilies on night naval attack with torpedoes. And lots of Jakes on night naval search as well as one squadron of Mavis.

Gotta hit something!

This is most likely a waste. At least you'll have them for the next day strikes. Brutality in numbers is all that will carry the day. That's potentially 300 planes saved but 10 torpedoes not in CVs to me. I would use Emilys and Jakes to add search though, as a high DL is the biggest determining factor in getting good strikes against naval targets.

Well, at least they will sit idle then for the day, and recover a little. Maybe I will get lucky.

I had planned on sending them this next day with everything!.

(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 4515

RE: Unorthodox - 5/19/2015 4:14:18 PM

Lowpe

Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Miller

I would say about 3000AV, half Inf half tanks. As soon as he lands you will get ten crappy infantry divs in the HI that free up any unrestricted units you have for the counter landings. Strat move them all to Ominato (I assume it's built up to port level 9). Then depending on where he lands and how the overall battle develops get them loaded up and wherever you can see a weak spot send them there. There is no great hurry to get them ashore, bomb his airfields to prevent the build up of forts and/or fighter defences. Shuttle your BBs, one group bombards one night whilst the other reloads, with the distances involved you should at least one bomardment in every other day. What is his current CV strength?

That strategy means hoping ships survive this initial attack if I throw everything at the Allies.

I am not certain how many carriers the Allies have, enough to have some two groups of big fleet carriers, and five to six baby carriers with the invasion fleet.

(in reply to Miller)

Post #: 4516

RE: Unorthodox - 5/19/2015 11:15:42 PM

Lowpe

Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline

Here I am hoping for a turn before I call it a night. Little anxious to say the least.

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 4517

RE: Unorthodox - 5/19/2015 11:33:39 PM

ny59giants

Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline

quote:

Here I am hoping for a turn before I call it a night. Little anxious to say the least.

_____________________________

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 4518

RE: Unorthodox - 5/20/2015 12:34:13 AM

topeverest

Posts: 3376
Joined: 10/17/2007
From: Houston, TX - USA
Status: offline

Good luck admiral,

DO not underestimate the value of throwing numerous low value, small combat TF at him set to react to his force, keeping them in-between your carriers and his.

Good luck. If he stays separated, that will be the window that will change odds to your favor.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Here I am hoping for a turn before I call it a night. Little anxious to say the least.

_____________________________

Andy M

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 4519

RE: Unorthodox - 5/20/2015 1:18:57 AM

Lowpe

Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline

Lok,

I hate to say it, but I brew it from a kit. Still good....

Sorry no turn yet, and I talked with my son in the Army rather than drink.

So sorry...

Attachment (1)

(in reply to topeverest)

Post #: 4520

RE: Unorthodox - 5/20/2015 4:35:03 AM

JocMeister

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline

I don�t miss the sleepless nights when you are waiting for a crucial turn...or when you get the turn at 2 in the morning on a work day and you get up to run the turn.

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 4521

RE: Unorthodox - 5/20/2015 5:03:26 AM

Lokasenna

Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Lok,

I hate to say it, but I brew it from a kit. Still good....

Sorry no turn yet, and I talked with my son in the Army rather than drink.

So sorry...

I brew from kits too, and craft recipes when I have time :-). BB is a bit on the expensive side for me. Runs what, $50 per kit? Ick. I get $30-35 for grain recipes.

In any case... the strike against Ominato throws me here. And low CAP. Where are the CVEs? Is this a giant feint? And yet you can't help but hit what you can here. If only you had better DL.... and if only I were a sorcerer.

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 4522

RE: Unorthodox - 5/20/2015 10:08:30 AM

Lowpe

Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Lok,

I hate to say it, but I brew it from a kit. Still good....

Sorry no turn yet, and I talked with my son in the Army rather than drink.

So sorry...

I brew from kits too, and craft recipes when I have time :-). BB is a bit on the expensive side for me. Runs what, $50 per kit? Ick. I get $30-35 for grain recipes.

In any case... the strike against Ominato throws me here. And low CAP. Where are the CVEs? Is this a giant feint? And yet you can't help but hit what you can here. If only you had better DL.... and if only I were a sorcerer.

I got a deal on it and avoided the shipping costs, you it was like $32. $50 is steep.

(in reply to Lokasenna)

Post #: 4523

RE: Unorthodox - 5/20/2015 10:47:26 AM

JocMeister

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline

No turn yet?

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 4524

RE: Unorthodox - 5/20/2015 10:53:11 AM

Lowpe

Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

No turn yet?

Just watched the replay and working on the graphics.

(in reply to JocMeister)

Post #: 4525

RE: Unorthodox - 5/20/2015 10:55:37 AM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

No turn yet?

Just watched the replay and working on the graphics.

Is the smile indicative of results?

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 4526

RE: Unorthodox - 5/20/2015 10:56:15 AM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

Wish I had a turn to work on graphics for.

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 4527

RE: Unorthodox - 5/20/2015 11:01:29 AM

Lowpe

Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline

Jan 17, 1944

In the moonlight night the Allied armada moves closer, and about 100 Betties and Emilies sortie out, but they all miss....however, it provides a lot of ship information. CV, CVE, CVL, BB, oh my!

Unfortunately Obvert was right, not a single hit.

The replay showed the Betties and Emilies dropping bombs, but the combat replay shows them launching torpedoes. Go figure.

During the day, there are several large air battles over Ominato, and 130 Allied planes are downed for 160 Japanese, 60 of which are nailed on the ground at Ominato (mostly fighters). Still, no other base was touched and I am good to go for today.

Here, you can see the situation...unfortunately a surface fleet with the Musashi is spotted (10/10) at Sendai, I had hoped to sneak into port and disband during the night.

So, now I need to plan how to throw the kitchen sink at him!