Slitherine

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ORIGINAL: Hotschi

Also read Dark Navy: The Italian Regia Marina and the Armistice of 8 September 1943 by Vincent P. O'Hara. A short book about the events leading to, during, and after the armistice. O'Hara argues that the Regia Marina in fact didn't surrender but instead "sailed into Allied controlled ports" as ordered by Supermarina. He points out that the Allies, notably the Royal Navy, never actually exercised control of the Italian warships, contrary to claims by RN personell, for example Admiral Cunningham. I regard this as a somewhat hair-splitting argument, but okay. The appendices is where this small book really shines - every, and I mean every, Italian warships's fate, be it captured/taken over (from the French for example), "original" Regia Marina, in repair or under construction, is listed. Also the postions of the ships at the time of the armistice is listed - for me, extremely valuable information.

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

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ORIGINAL: warspite1


...and a sister tome about the Italian Navy 1943-45.

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ORIGINAL: Hotschi

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ORIGINAL: warspite1


...and a sister tome about the Italian Navy 1943-45.

Which is called Black Phoenix?

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

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ORIGINAL: Hotschi

Thought so! Please tell me what you think about it when read.

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hotschi

Also read Dark Navy: The Italian Regia Marina and the Armistice of 8 September 1943 by Vincent P. O'Hara. A short book about the events leading to, during, and after the armistice. O'Hara argues that the Regia Marina in fact didn't surrender but instead "sailed into Allied controlled ports" as ordered by Supermarina. He points out that the Allies, notably the Royal Navy, never actually exercised control of the Italian warships, contrary to claims by RN personell, for example Admiral Cunningham. I regard this as a somewhat hair-splitting argument, but okay. The appendices is where this small book really shines - every, and I mean every, Italian warships's fate, be it captured/taken over (from the French for example), "original" Regia Marina, in repair or under construction, is listed. Also the postions of the ships at the time of the armistice is listed - for me, extremely valuable information.

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

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ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hotschi

Also read Dark Navy: The Italian Regia Marina and the Armistice of 8 September 1943 by Vincent P. O'Hara. A short book about the events leading to, during, and after the armistice. O'Hara argues that the Regia Marina in fact didn't surrender but instead "sailed into Allied controlled ports" as ordered by Supermarina. He points out that the Allies, notably the Royal Navy, never actually exercised control of the Italian warships, contrary to claims by RN personell, for example Admiral Cunningham. I regard this as a somewhat hair-splitting argument, but okay. The appendices is where this small book really shines - every, and I mean every, Italian warships's fate, be it captured/taken over (from the French for example), "original" Regia Marina, in repair or under construction, is listed. Also the postions of the ships at the time of the armistice is listed - for me, extremely valuable information.

warspite1

This book came yesterday (Black Phoenix arriving today apparently). Bit disappointed in the size of the book for the money. Read it already.

Agree the detail re the entire fleet is the big win with this tome and am pleased I bought it for that reason alone.

I must confess I found myself reading the book and feeling I was inhabiting a parallel universe. I'm not quite sure who exactly the authors were rooting for here (for example Borghese and his efficient navy), but there were a couple of passages that just came over as bizarre.

To suggest that Admiral Cunningham was wrong to "engage in theatrics" by taking Admiral de Zara the long way around Valetta so that he could see what Axis aircraft had done to Malta..... that strikes me as a very understandable way for Cunningham to act, given what the tiny island had endured.

Given how different the Italians reaction could be toward the Germans - ranging from fiercely pro-German to fiercely anti-German with whole loads of grey in between, not sure the mis-trust of the Italian navy was exactly unreasonable...

The underlying tone was that Fascist Italy should be allowed to behave as she did - declaring war on the French and British as soon as she "knew" that the Allies were on their knees and the war as good as over. But then, when things were going badly, they should be allowed to duck out of the war on their terms and the Germans (who were not advised of this stab in the back) should be happy with the situation.

Funny old game eh?

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ORIGINAL: Hotschi

I second your motions! O'Hara writes a lot of good books, granted, and he aims to erase the Regia Marina's reputation of having been "coward" or "avoiding battle" and "running away", even though it fulfilled its mission in the Mediterranean war, i.e. keeping open the supply route to North Africa (in Struggle for the Middle Sea), but in this book, he's overdoing it. If it wasn't for the appendices, this small book could be completely neglected.

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

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ORIGINAL: Hotschi

Finished HMS Royal Sovereign and Her Sister Ships by Peter C. Smith, which is a very good book about those "coffin ships" (as Churchill said). Her whole career is covered up to and including her service in the Russian Fleet.

Now reading Churchill and the Admirals by Stephen Roskill, just finished the chapter about the Norwegian campaign. Churchill gets a lot of flak, but contrary to writers like Gordon Corrigan, Roskill actually backs up what he writes.

Which Gallipoli book are you reading, warspite1? I'm pondering getting "Churchill's Dilemma" by Graham Clews.

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

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ORIGINAL: George Patton

The British Pacific Fleet: the Royal Navy's most powerful strike force, by David Hobbs

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

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ORIGINAL: warspite1

Finally finished Volume 1 of Clay Blair's Hitler U-Boat War.

700 pages + more stats than you can shake a stick at. There were a few niggles - like when he got off his subject (to recap where the war was at various points) he was guilty of hyperbole in some cases, and also he seemed to have a bit of a hang up about the British and a love affair with Admiral King.

However, these are minor niggles; the work gone into this book is staggering and the result is hugely interesting book and really easy to read piece of work.

I would thoroughly recommend this book - and am angry with myself that I have not read it sooner. Having finished it I have dived straight into volume II.

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ORIGINAL: Hotschi

Finished Churchill and the Admirals by Stephen Roskill, a pretty damning book about Churchill and how he treated the Admirals of the Royal Navy. Covered are all his actions, errors, mistakes, intrigues, brainwaves and whatever, from the Great War onwards through WWII. Fascinating read.

Now reading Churchill's Anchor: The Biography of Admiral of the Fleet Sir Dudley Pound OM, GCB, GCVO by Robin Brodhurst.

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ORIGINAL: Hotschi

Thank you, on my list. It's always good to see both sides of the coin - that's what I always try to achieve, to get more than just one opinion (or book) about the same issue. No author is in the sole possession of the truth.