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HQ units, any good?

 
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HQ units, any good? - 3/15/2003 3:04:53 AM   
mandreads

 

Posts: 51
Joined: 3/7/2003
From: Finland
Status: offline 		Hi!

Is it any good buyin' some HQ units, like Command tents, Command cars etc.? Do they have any effect on anything or are they just ordinary units with nice names?
Post #: 1
- 3/15/2003 6:52:20 AM   
rbrunsman


Posts: 1837
Joined: 1/31/2002
From: Phoenix, AZ
Status: offline 		I understand that ONE Command Tent placed anywhere on the map, does assist with the morale of the troops. Buying more than one is of no additional benefit.

Of course, if you are playing with C&C ON, then they are even more valuable because they give you more Orders (or something like that).

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Post #: 2
- 3/15/2003 6:57:12 AM   
Goblin


Posts: 5547
Joined: 3/29/2002
From: Erie,Pa. USA
Status: offline 		I believe the command tents provide a bonus to all friendly units in a 5 hex radius, and you can have more than one. The represent a local, organized command and communication center.

Goblin

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Post #: 3
- 3/15/2003 7:38:04 AM   
Capt. Pixel

 

Posts: 1219
Joined: 10/15/2001
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		I've found the HQ command tents useful in improving your Rally results with any unit, anywhere on the map. But more than one HQ doesn't help.

I can't address the issue of command points well as I don't often play with C&C On. But other than providing additional units that have their own command points, I can't see how they'd help any other units. They're not part of another unit's command structure. And they don't, AFAIK, fit in any special command heirarchy. (They don't pass their points down to a subordinate unit)

They are definitely worth the purchase. Particularly if you're playing a minor or low-experience country's forces.

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Post #: 4
- 3/15/2003 8:42:38 AM   
Goblin


Posts: 5547
Joined: 3/29/2002
From: Erie,Pa. USA
Status: offline 		From page 80 of the manual:

"Ammo dumps are immobile units that can never move or be carried whose primary function is to
resupply units in the hex with it. A unit in the same hex as the ammo dump that neither moves nor
shoots for a turn and is not too suppressed is supplied with twice the amount of ammunition
provided by an ammo truck.
HQ units can provide a morale benefit for all friendly units within five hexes. This automatically
reduces some suppression at the end of a turn for units in range."


It does not state that only one unit is beneficial, and I have spaced Command Tents every ten hexes right behind Infantry units (so that all are covered), and have found that they all provide benefits to the units within 5 hexes of them. Elite Infantry, dug-in, with Command Tents behind them, are almost immovable.

Goblin

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Post #: 5
Thanks Goblin! - 3/15/2003 4:45:05 PM   
mandreads

 

Posts: 51
Joined: 3/7/2003
From: Finland
Status: offline 		Thanks also to the others that replied, that was really helpful. The other threads that I found contained only replies like "I think that...." or "In my opinion..." or "I thought that...."

Finally someone with a fact! :)

hmm... maybe I should print out that manual and read it... nah, I think the forum is more fun...:rolleyes:

(in reply to mandreads)
Post #: 6
- 3/15/2003 11:14:55 PM   
Goblin


Posts: 5547
Joined: 3/29/2002
From: Erie,Pa. USA
Status: offline 		Lol! I tend to agree with you. You also get great little extras from these guys sometimes, so that is even better!

Goblin;)

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Post #: 7
Re: Thanks Goblin! - 3/16/2003 12:09:53 AM   
Gary Tatro

 

Posts: 1213
Joined: 2/1/2002
From: MA, US
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by mandreads
[B]hmm... maybe I should print out that manual and read it... nah, I think the forum is more fun...:rolleyes: [/B][/QUOTE]

Thats right don't read the manual. It is not worth the effort. Not much it there to help you at all. It is much more fun for me to teach people the hard way in PBEM's.

Just being a little sarcastic. I have read the manual at least 3 times and have it handy for refrence quite often. It is worth the read.

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Post #: 8
- 3/16/2003 12:51:03 AM   
o4r

 

Posts: 257
Joined: 1/31/2003
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Goblin
[B]From page 80 of the manual:

"Ammo dumps are immobile units that can never move or be carried whose primary function is to
resupply units in the hex with it. A unit in the same hex as the ammo dump that neither moves nor
shoots for a turn and is not too suppressed is supplied with twice the amount of ammunition
provided by an ammo truck.
HQ units can provide a morale benefit for all friendly units within five hexes. This automatically
reduces some suppression at the end of a turn for units in range."


It does not state that only one unit is beneficial, and I have spaced Command Tents every ten hexes right behind Infantry units (so that all are covered), and have found that they all provide benefits to the units within 5 hexes of them. Elite Infantry, dug-in, with Command Tents behind them, are almost immovable.

Goblin [/B][/QUOTE]

Ok, about ammo truck, if you unit is in the same square or adjacent, you still receive the same ammo rate but for ammo dump, on the same sqaure is twice and on adjacent is normal.

HQ unit is very important for moral and reduction of suppression. In CC on mode. You have move command point for changing the objective of that unit beside it since after that unit commander had used up his command point, it will automatically use the next higher commander command pont.

HQ unit also ensure that all time unit are in contact, this is very important also for your artillery unit so that they are constant in contact and give the ability to fire evey round but still you limited to your ammo which require the attenion of your ammo truck or dump. Which is also subject enemy return fire.

(in reply to mandreads)
Post #: 9
The pen of my aunt is on the desk of my uncle - 3/16/2003 1:42:09 AM   
Capt. Pixel

 

Posts: 1219
Joined: 10/15/2001
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Goblin
[B]From page 80 of the manual:

"Ammo dumps are immobile units that can never move or be carried whose primary function is to
resupply units in the hex with it. A unit in the same hex as the ammo dump that neither moves nor
shoots for a turn and is not too suppressed is supplied with twice the amount of ammunition
provided by an ammo truck.
HQ units can provide a morale benefit for all friendly units within five hexes. This automatically
reduces some suppression at the end of a turn for units in range."
.... Goblin [/B][/QUOTE]

Be careful about believing what you read. The first statement above is not entirely correct.

Change '... in the hex with it.' to '... in its hex or an adjacent hex.'

Change the second line from '... in the same hex ...' to '... in the same or adjacent hex ... '

That sort of variation from the manual happens in all sorts of cases. And as you get further along in revisions, the exceptions become more pronounced.

As far as lining up an HQ tent behind every platoon, it seems to me that it would only be useful in a static Defense. In an Advance or Meeting engagement, you'd be out of the 5 hex range pretty quickly. In a Delay, you'd eventually have that position jeporadized.

I suppose you could have a line of them across the map to catch and rally stragglers and units in retreat (typically from Minor countries)

Maybe it's time to re-evaluate the HQ in H2H. I haven't looked closely at them since their intro a few revs back. ;)

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- Stonewall Jackson

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Post #: 10
- 3/27/2003 6:29:33 AM   
AbsntMndedProf


Posts: 1780
Joined: 7/6/2001
From: Boston, Massachusetts
Status: offline 		Capt. Pixel posted:

"As far as lining up an HQ tent behind every platoon, it seems to me that it would only be useful in a static Defense."

It also gives the opponent's air assets a nice aiming point to drop their bombs and damage any foot units in the immediate area of the tent. :D

Eric Maietta

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Post #: 11
- 3/27/2003 6:53:08 AM   
Lars

 

Posts: 205
Joined: 7/19/2000
From: Västerås, Sweden
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by o4r
[B]HQ unit is very important for moral and reduction of suppression. In CC on mode. You have move command point for changing the objective of that unit beside it since after that unit commander had used up his command point, it will automatically use the next higher commander command pont.
[/B][/QUOTE]

Sorry o4r, but this won't work because of this...

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Capt.Pixel
I can't address the issue of command points well as I don't often play with C&C On. But other than providing additional units that have their own command points, I can't see how they'd help any other units. They're not part of another unit's command structure. And they don't, AFAIK, fit in any special command heirarchy. (They don't pass their points down to a subordinate unit)[/B][/QUOTE]

They simply don't distribute their command points down the chain, cause they aint no part of the chain.
Their command points is however useful for assigning artillery bombardment.

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Post #: 12
- 3/27/2003 7:51:28 AM   
Capt. Pixel

 

Posts: 1219
Joined: 10/15/2001
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Lars
[B]...
Their command points is however useful for assigning artillery bombardment. [/B][/QUOTE]

Other than Rallying, this is the only other use I've found for them (HQ tents)

I did try a test where I bought two companies of Infantry and several HQ tents. I separated the two companies and provided only one with HQs within 5 hexes of each unit. After a little liberal dose of medium caliber artillery on both companies, I [I]did[/I] find that the HQ-supported company took (or at least appeared the following turn with) less suppression overall.

I also tried a test where I brought an HQ tent onto the map as a late reinforcement. This made a substantial difference in the troops ability to Rally, after it's arrival.

The final upshot:

Nothing's really changed from earlier versions. You can access more arty plot points in C&C and a single HQ [I]anywhere[/I] on the map is going to improve ALL your units Rallying.

I still contend that if you move away from your HQs, you lose the 'reduced supression' benefit. IOW, they're really only useful in numbers if you're conducting a Static Defense. Otherwise, one will do the trick (and [I]this[/I] I highly recommend) :cool:

_____________________________

"Always mystify, mislead, and surprise the enemy, if possible. "
- Stonewall Jackson

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Post #: 13
- 3/27/2003 8:48:14 AM   
AbsntMndedProf


Posts: 1780
Joined: 7/6/2001
From: Boston, Massachusetts
Status: offline 		Darn! Now I have that song stuck in my head. "HQs! Huh! Good God, y'all! What are they good for? Absolutely nuthin'!".:rolleyes: :D

Eric Maietta

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Post #: 14
- 3/27/2003 12:22:48 PM   
john g

 

Posts: 984
Joined: 10/6/2000
From: college station, tx usa
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by rbrunsman
[B]I understand that ONE Command Tent placed anywhere on the map, does assist with the morale of the troops. Buying more than one is of no additional benefit.

Of course, if you are playing with C&C ON, then they are even more valuable because they give you more Orders (or something like that). [/B][/QUOTE]

There is another benefit of CPs, they add to the hit percentage of nearby units as well. I just ran a test and comparing the numbers it seemed that the cp added between 5-10% to the chance to hit for nearby units. Adding a cp near any concentration of at guns will greatly increase their chance of taking out tanks. Whereever you need an edge in shooting add a cp. When you are looking at a 25% chance to hit jumping up to a 35% chance, then that cp acts a a force multiplier, not to mention that the morale benefit will help keep the units near it firing for more turns as well.
thanks, John.

(in reply to mandreads)
Post #: 15
- 3/28/2003 12:29:23 AM   
Irinami

 

Posts: 746
Joined: 9/4/2002
From: Florida, USA
Status: offline 		HQ Units appear to be certain to have a radio. In the early-year battles I've been doing, this can make all the difference. If you're in a campaign, though, you can then upgrade them to a full Inf. squad (or a vehicle if you want... ...).

I would say for historical accuracy you should probably leave it in. You're going to have to have some sort of staff unit in most cases (Col. Hackworth was just being born, remember ;) ).

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Post #: 16
- 3/28/2003 9:31:32 AM   
Capt. Pixel

 

Posts: 1219
Joined: 10/15/2001
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by john g
[B]There is another benefit of CPs, they add to the hit percentage of nearby units as well. I just ran a test and comparing the numbers it seemed that the cp added between 5-10% to the chance to hit for nearby units. Adding a cp near any concentration of at guns will greatly increase their chance of taking out tanks. Whereever you need an edge in shooting add a cp. When you are looking at a 25% chance to hit jumping up to a 35% chance, then that cp acts a a force multiplier, not to mention that the morale benefit will help keep the units near it firing for more turns as well.
thanks, John. [/B][/QUOTE]

[I]That's[/I] pretty cool. Does it also seem to improve indirect artillery hits? That's where I usually place my HQ. (At least in the general vicinity.)

_____________________________

"Always mystify, mislead, and surprise the enemy, if possible. "
- Stonewall Jackson

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Post #: 17
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