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Hi FoxZz,
Thank you for the detailed information! We've finally gotten around to look at it in detail. Things have been moving a bit slowly lately and Im sorry for that, but most of the suggestions have been added in DB v439 (please note that 1.08 RC3 uses v438, so these changes will be included in the next RC release).
Some comments below:
quote:
ORIGINAL: FoxZz
Hi, there is some errors concerning French units of the database for the Build 678.3:
First of all, some units are not fitted with the right Exocet version :
- Atlantique II maritime patrol aicraft should have AM.39 Exocet block II instead of the AM.39 exocet block I in its 2009 version
- F70 AA Frigates should have MM.40 block II instead of MM.40 block I from 2006 up to today versions.
- Lafayette frigate in its 1996 version should have the MM.40 block II since this ship has been introduced with the last available missile and its 2014 version should have MM.40 Exocet Block III, its previous block II have been converted in block III.
- Rubis class submarine in its 2012 version should have SM.39 exocet block II
Done!
quote:
ORIGINAL: FoxZz
About submarines :
- Le Triomphant SSBN has a magazine of 18 weapons + 4 already loaded in torpedo tubes, and it can carry both torpedos and Exocet missiles. Currently ingame, it only carries 12 Torpedos. This should be corrected. Exocet should be SM.39 block II for the 2012 version (ID #456) and block I for the 1998 version (#158). It should also get the shrouded/advanced proplusor property (pump jet). A new 2016 version should be created for the entry in service of the F21 Artemis Torpedo. This new version should also introduce M51.2 ballistic missiles with the new TNO nuclear head instead of the TN 75.It lacks Syracuse satcom (II and III in its last version)
It seems rare that TTs and mags are full, as you need room to replace/reload weapons. So is probably most realistic to have 18 weapons total, i.e. 14 in mags. Also added the ability to carry Exocets, but none are loaded by default.
quote:
ORIGINAL: FoxZz
- Rubis class SSN, in addition to the already above-mentionned exocet issue, a new version of this submarine should be introdued in the DB for the introduction of the F21 Artemis Torpedo in replacement of the F17 one, in 2016. It lacks Syracuse III satcom.
- Barracuda Suffren class SSN, it can carry 20 weapons in magazine (not 16 as currently displayed) in addition to 4 weapons already loaded in torpedo tubes. In addition of torpedos and exocet missiles, it will also carry SCALP Naval cruise missiles which will be launched by torpedo tubes in the same fashion as exocet missiles (hence all weapons in the same magazine). Surface version of the Scalp MdCN and submarine version are identical, it can also deploy FG29 mines. Only difference is surface ones are stored into a sylver while submarine one are stored into a dedicated capsule. Barracuda should also be classified as a SSN, and get the following properties : Non magnetic hull, shock resistant, shrouded propulsor/advanced propulsor (pump jet). It is also fitted with a dry dock shelter for special forces insertion.It also lacks the Syracuse III system as well as the Link 16.
As above, seems there is no room to move weapons around if magazines are this full :)
Do you have more information on the SCALP Naval and expected in-service date? 2018 sounds a bit optimistic to be honest.
quote:
ORIGINAL: FoxZz
About surface ships :
- Horizon class frigates should be armed with 2*20mm F2 GIAT guns instead of the 30mm Oerlikon currenlty displayed. It should also get the Syracuse III satcom. The ships also lacks the 2 SADRAL Mistral mounts they are fitted with IRL. They also lacks docking facilities for RHIBs.
Seems Sadral launchers were planned, but the ship is currently not carrying them:
http://navalanalyses.blogspot.no/2014/07/horizon-class-destroyers-of-french-and.html
quote:
ORIGINAL: FoxZz
- Aquitaine class frigates lacks Link 16, as well as Syracuse III stacom. It's propulsion is CODLOG (Combined diesel electric or gaz, not CODAG, the very silent electric propulsion is used until 16 knots. French Fremm max speed is 28 knots. Its small artillery is based on 2 Narwhal teleoperated 20mm guns by Nexter not standard F2 FIAT 20mm guns.
Info on the Narwhal
- La Fayette class light frigates lacks the Syracuse II satcom as well as the Praire/masker ability. It should also get MM40 block III in its last version, as explained above. They lack docking facilities for RHIB
About Prairie/masker capability, The 3 above mentionned ships are stealth frigates which have been build to be as discreet as possible in both radar and IR field than in accoustic field. However, those ships begin to Cavitate very early ingame (8 knots) which is kind of weid. Especially since the Aquitaine class frigate is said very silent up to 16 knots, as well as Horizon class and Lafayette class which are said to be very efficient in this field. I didn't found anything on the net saying Aquitaine or Horizon could have a Prairie/masker system, however, considering that Lafayette have one, that those ships are the legacy of the Lafayette, and that they have been thought as stealth since the begining, I guess they have something similar. I asked for further infomations, but still, those ships shouldn't cavitate so early.
EDIT : I still wait more info for FREMM and Horizon, but F70 ASM frigates were fitted with a Prairie Masker too
EDIT 2 : FREMM and Horizon Frigates doesn't use a Prairie Masker system because they don't need it, they used technologies from nuclear submarines to redducced directly the noises prodduced by the ship by isolating the engines from the hull, and other features, so masking noise isn't necessary anymore. Moreover, they also improved propellers by otptimizing their shape and so on. FREMM frigates also use fix blades on electric mode (up to 16 knots) which greatly reducce the risks of cavitation. So Indeed, cavitation should happend at much higher speed than it is currently, like 16 knots.
- R91 Charles de Gaulle carrier lacks its Syracuse satcom (II and III in the last version). The Carrier magazine lacks also importants weapons, it doesn't have a buddy buddy refuelling system (generic buddy store), it lacks a stock of Ecocet SM.39 block II for the Rafale, it lacks a stock of Apache anti runway cruise missiles and different kind of GBUs used by the Rafale (I'll come back to this point later on). A new 2017 version should be implemented with Only Rafale equipement, and also Meteor missile loadout, and more cargo space due too the space freed by the retirement of the SEM and its maintenance machines, this new 2017 version will also include a new Heraklès radar to replace the Arabel, several old radars will also be replaced like DRBJ11b and the DRBV26.
- Mistral class LHD/LPD lacks Link 11/22, Link 16, Syracuse III satcom. Its 30mm guns should be replaced with 20mm F2 GIAT guns and 20mm Narwhal in its last version.
- Meuse class Tankers should receive Syracuse III satcom.
Do you know when the system was installed?
quote:
ORIGINAL: FoxZz
EDIT : F70 ASM Frigates should be fitted with a Prairie Masker too.
About Aircrafts :
- A400M, it lacks the Terrain following mode, the "AR-400" RWR, the "MIRAS" MAWS, the Night Vision Goggles, the Link 16, the Directionnal Infrared Counter mesures (DIRCM), the LWR, the "saphir 400" decoys launcher. It should also have a Helmet mounted sight display (same as the Tiger one)
- The E3F Sentry in its last version lacks the Link 16
- The E2C Hawkeye lacks a Satcom
- the A330 MRTT lacks a satcom and link 16.
- The Br Atlantique 2 can take 8 MU90 in ASW, ingame it's only 7. 15 ATl2 will be modernised (signed in 2013) and those will have better detetection performances both surface and underwater, and will have Link 16, 22 and a satcom. It will also include enhanced self protection capabilities such as automated decoys and MAWS, maybe this version can be included in the next updatee.
Various sources say 8x Mk46 but only 7x MU90. Not sure why, been trying to find a good photo of the weapons bay to confirm this.
Do you have more details (such as in-service date, new sensors, etc) on the upgraded variant?
quote:
ORIGINAL: FoxZz
- NH90 Caiman, those helicopters belong to the Army not the Air force, the Saphir M decoys should operate without OODA, it's automated.
- Tigre HAD and HAP, they should also operate Saphir M decoys without OODA delays, it's automated. It lacks the loadout with 8 hellfire (2*4) and 24 SNEB rocket (2*12), which would be the main loadout of the Tiger HAD. Tiger HAP also lacks the loadouts with the Fuel tank and the sneb rockets, just make the same as the HAD.
- The Mirage 2000-5F should have the Link 16 in its 2012 version. The Plane should also have a loadout "interception" with 1 center line 1300L fuel tank, 4 mica EM and 2 MICA IR. The Mirage 2000 should also get 4.9 agility has its F16 and Mig 29 counterparts, mainly because their manoauvrability is very close from each others (The Mirage even having an edge).
Haven't added the Intercept loadout because it would be identical to the long-range one except for two drop tanks. The player wouldn't notice the difference except having shorter range.
quote:
ORIGINAL: FoxZz
- The Rafale :
Sensors :
- OSF and OSF IT ecompasses a laser rangefinder which isn't present ingame. The IT version in an improved version with a much longer range than the standard OSF and this should also be translated ingame.
- OSF IRST, the IRST was indeed removed on the 2014 version (F3-O4T) due to obsolescence and will come back in the F3R standars in 2018. The lack of IRST is compensated by the Mica IR head that is IRST capable and with the DDM, but also with the improved TV version (OSF-IT) which is very good according to the pilots. But the F3R version should have the OSF-IR IRST it. I suggest also to find a way to represent the Mica IR IRST capability.
Done. The 'Act As Sensor' property for the MICA IR missile is already set, so should be able to use it as an IRST in the simulator.
quote:
ORIGINAL: FoxZz
- Spectra DDM and DDM NG should be implemented ingame in the same manner as the EO-DAS of the F35, it's a 360° infrared surveillance that can detect and track any hot source at very long distances such as the rocket boost of a missile being fired, the exhaust fume or the heating of the head of the missile. The DDM NG is an imrpoved version of the DDm with a longer range and a better resolution. So I suggest the same thing than on the F-35 a 360° IR captor in addition to the standard MAWS. DDM NG accuracy will be use for a future DIRCM implementation
The DDM-NG is currently implemented as a standard MAWS because I haven't quite been able to find out how the system works. Can the pilot chose to see the IR image on a HHD? Any details here would be great!
quote:
ORIGINAL: FoxZz
- Spectra EW system : This system does ELINT and SIGINT as well as RWR and LWR, the ELINT function should be implemented. Indeed, this system is not only a RWR but a complete electronic warfare suit which can detect an emission with a 1° accuracy and classify and identify it in its database before applying the proper jamming, it can also give a fire solution. Which brings us to the next point, Spectra can do both offensive and defensive jamming by the game dfinition. In game Defensive jamming happend only just before the hit roll of the incomming missile, but Rafale jamming goes well beyond that since it can directly jamm, in stealthy manner, the ennemy radar and sensors. This ingame should be translated into an offesnive jamming capability both in air to air and air to ground.
Each generation of rafale (F1, F2, F3, F3.4, F3R) improves the power and the capabilities of Spectra with lastly GaN antennas.
Added ELINT capabilities. The offensive ECM capabilities will have to wait as there are a couple things in the EW model that are currently missing.
quote:
ORIGINAL: FoxZz
- With the F3R version, Rafale will get a new designation pod that works both in A/A and A/G, the Tallios, would be nice if it was implemented.
- Data Fusion on the Rafale brings all the informations gathered by the different sensors of the plane and brings the pilot one clear picture of the situation, this give him a very good situation awarness, which should definitely reducce by a fair margin the OODA cycle, but I don't know how this can be done.
Properties :
- Rafale should definitealy get the Supermanouverability property as the Typhoon and the Raptor as it largely matches those. And I would also argue for it getting 5.5 agility.
- Rafale M should also get Advanced Bombing sights INS/GPS it doesn't have it currenlty while other versions got it.
The bombsight is only used when delivering iron bombs or dumb rockets. The naval variant isn't carrying these types of munitions so doesn't need the bombsight.
quote:
ORIGINAL: FoxZz
- All the versions should get as well Night Navigation and Attack since the Rafale is as much a fighter than a bomber and that it can use all its weaponnery including gun both night and day.
- About the HMD/S It's most likely that the Rafale will have one for the F3R version. It should already have got one for the F3 standard (Sagem gerfaut) but due to technical issues, it has been delayed, but with the recent exports to Egypyt, India and Qatar, it's most likely that it will got it in 2018.
In comms, Rafale F3R doesn't have an AMRAAM datalink but a Meteor Datalink, one way only.
Yeah Meteor and AMRAAM uses the same datalink type in the sim :)
quote:
ORIGINAL: FoxZz
Weapons/Loadouts :
- Since the F3 standard, all the Rafale whatever the version can use the same weapons. For example, B and C Rafale can shoot the Exocet as much as the M, and use the buddy buddy pod as well, and the M can use all the GBU collection. So there is several weapons that should be made available for different versions.
Understood, but would also like to limit weapon options by the operationally available ones.
Don't think the Air Force uses Exocets?
quote:
ORIGINAL: FoxZz
- Several lacks to the inventory of each other : GBU 16 for the F3R, GBU 49 since 2012, GBU 22, GBU 24B (standard bomb), Apache anti runway weapon, AM.39 block II and buddy store for C/B.
It seems the Apache was actually never operational, the weapons were placed in storage as they came off the production line.
Also, I haven't been able to find any photos showin GBU-16s being carried. GBU-49 and GBU-24 will be used with F3R I think? And GBU-22 has not been integrated?
quote:
ORIGINAL: FoxZz
- With the F3R version, the hard point number 3 will be open and up to 8 missiles will be carried, some trials already have been done. I propose here to add 2 optionnal MICA-EM to existing loadouts of the F3R version.
- The Rafale in all the standard air to ground loadouts where the weapon is carried under the center line fuselage (ASMPA, 1 scalp, 1 exocet, 1 apache and so on) use 6 missiles.
- The light CAP with only 4 missiles should only have one center line 1200L tank. In this configuration, the Rafale can supercruise up to Mach 1.6.
- The standard cap is 6 A/A missiles (including 2 Mica IR) and one center line 1200L tank, in this configuration, it can supercruise at mach 1.4. There is also versions with 2 1300L tanks and up to 3.
Noted, but the kinematics model isn't detailed enough yet.
As for fuel tanks, see my above comment.
quote:
ORIGINAL: FoxZz
- The buddy buddy configuration is 1 center line refuelling pod 2 2000L tanks and 2 1250L tanks, ingame it lacks the 2 1250L tanks.
- Ground based Rafale can take 2 exocet missiles instead of 1. It would be nice to have such a loadout available.
We had this earlier but removed it because it isn't an operational loadout it seems.
quote:
ORIGINAL: FoxZz
Missiles/Weapons :
- Mistral : The Mistral family is very weirdly depicted, Mistral 1 have better stats than Mistral 2 while it should be the opposite sinc ethe Mistral 2 is an improvment of the Mistral 1, lastly, it's Probability of Hit (PH) is very low. Mistral missiles are higly precises missiles very resistent to counter-mesures and with a great manouverability, they achieved 95% hit rate in trials againt all kind of targets. It should be depicted, I would argue for a base PH of 85% for the Mistral 1 version and 90% for the Mistral II version. Secondly, all Mistral missiles have the same accuracy, doesn't matter if it's shoulder launched, simbad launched or air launched.
- Mica : First of all, this missile, in both version (both EM and IR mica share the same boddy, only the commutable head change), should have the Anti-Air dogfight capability and the High-Off Boresight stuff. Indeed this missile is remplacing both Magic II WVR missile and the Super 530 BVR missile, thus it's both a dogfight and a BVR missile. It is equipped with thrust vectoring engine and can take above 50G loading factor. It is planned to be used with an HMD (mod4) and Mica is the first missile ever to have scored a hit on a target situated in th six of the Rafale.
For all those reasons and also the very advanced mica auto director (dual band for the IR) which can resist to last counter mesures and is almost immuned to IR flares, both versions should definitely have 95% base probability of hit as other missiles of its time frame.
- AASM : This weapon isn't a glide bomb but a Rockets boosted bomb which greatly increase its range, give it an off boresight capability, and a custom trajectory (it can go up and down, it can do top attacks, etc), tanks to this, it can be fired at very low altitude and even at those very low altitude, it still have a range of 15km. Ingame, AASM should have a much lower minimum weapon release such as 300m/900ft. Also, it's accuracy is metric, not deca metric.
- ANL/SeaVenom Missile : this missile will be the new light anti-ship missile for Helicopters (NH90 and Panther for french navy)and should arrive around 2020. It would be nice if it could be implemented.
Voila, I hope you'll be able to implement those changes. I wish I could have posted links, but I had to delete those otherwise I couldn't have post, I'm not yet allowed to post links it seems.
< Message edited by emsoy -- 6/14/2015 9:50:31 AM >
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