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Possible bug in 2.30 - Aircraft does not damage airfields anymore

 
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Possible bug in 2.30 - Aircraft does not damage airfiel... - 3/17/2003 6:10:25 AM   
HannoMeier


Posts: 155
Joined: 8/5/2001
From: Frankfurt, Germany
Status: offline 		Hi all,

could some of you please check, if this is happening in your PBEM games too:

For several weeks, I am attacking PM with bombers from Lae, Buna and Gili Gili. These attacks begun in version 2.20 and the airfield was fully damaged.

Now we switched to 2.30 and the same attacks (airfield target) only cause ground casualities at the moment. Not a SINGLE airfield runway hit. This should be checked by matrix. I could provide a save.

Does others have the same problem?

Regards, Hanno
Post #: 1
- 3/17/2003 6:40:06 AM   
Oleg Mastruko


Posts: 4921
Joined: 10/21/2000
Status: offline 		Had some games started under 2.30 - I don't have that problem.

O.

(in reply to HannoMeier)
Post #: 2
Re: Possible bug in 2.30 - Aircraft does not damage air... - 3/17/2003 6:57:56 AM   
Yamamoto

 

Posts: 743
Joined: 11/21/2001
From: Miami, Fl. U.S.A.
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Hanno Meier
[B]Hi all,
Now we switched to 2.30 and the same attacks (airfield target) only cause ground casualities at the moment. Not a SINGLE airfield runway hit. This should be checked by matrix. I could provide a save.

[/B][/QUOTE]

Ah, your problem is that you are using Japanese planes. :p
When I really need to close down an airfield I use bombardment groups. Also, Divebombers and torpedo bombers seem much better at inflicting airfield damage than G4Ms. Maybe it's because I use so many more of them.

Yamamoto

(in reply to HannoMeier)
Post #: 3
- 3/17/2003 7:22:41 AM   
HannoMeier


Posts: 155
Joined: 8/5/2001
From: Frankfurt, Germany
Status: offline 		Before patch 2.30 about 20-30 runway hits were achieved per raid (about 15 Bettys, 10 Vals and 20 Jake). No these groups do not achieve ANY hit on PM.

(in reply to HannoMeier)
Post #: 4
- 3/17/2003 9:44:27 AM   
Deban

 

Posts: 62
Joined: 8/7/2002
Status: offline 		Im playing a Sen 19 game where I sent a 150+ Carrier Plane strike against Buna that had a level 2 Airfield. The US player had 250+ ground casualties but not a single hit on the airfield or any planes even damamged. I can send a 50 Betty strike against Gili Gili and get 30 airfield hits....But for some reason it seems Buna can withstand one heck of a pounding

(in reply to HannoMeier)
Post #: 5
- 3/18/2003 3:02:30 AM   
dpstafford


Posts: 1910
Joined: 5/26/2002
From: Colbert Nation
Status: offline 		It seems to be an intermittent problem. I don't mean that it occurs on some raids and not others. When it occurs, at a given base in a given game, that air base develops a sort of immunity from runway and supply hits. And it persists turn after turn. The port can still be successfully bombed. And fleet bombardments are still effective.

_____________________________


(in reply to HannoMeier)
Post #: 6
- 3/18/2003 9:33:25 PM   
rcwkent

 

Posts: 51
Joined: 11/6/2002
From: New York City
Status: offline 		The turn I just played this AM in a PBEM game.

Rabul was hit by 93 B17's showing 100+hits and
airfield damage went from 34 to 92

Shortand has hit by 90+ B26's and
damage went from 40ish to 100.

Unfortunately for me, as IJN- these bombers are as effective
in 2.30 as before.

(in reply to HannoMeier)
Post #: 7
- 3/20/2003 9:28:48 PM   
Admiral DadMan


Posts: 3627
Joined: 2/22/2002
From: A Lion uses all its might to catch a Rabbit
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by rcwkent
[B]The turn I just played this AM in a PBEM game.

Rabul was hit by 93 B17's showing 100+hits and
airfield damage went from 34 to 92

Shortand has hit by 90+ B26's and
damage went from 40ish to 100.

Unfortunately for me, as IJN- these bombers are as effective
in 2.30 as before. [/B][/QUOTE]I have one word for you that alleviates the damage issue quite nicely: Engineers.

One of my PBeM opponents was regularly knocking out PM, GG, and Lunga with death from the skies. I gathered up all the ENGs I could get together, kept them supplied, and viola'- no more shut down runways. I even withstood 110 B-17s per day/turn over 4 turns. He chewed up tons of supply and fuel, and did substantial damage to the runway and service, but couldn't knock out the runway, and paid the price. (I love my torpedo jockeys...)

_____________________________

Scenario 127: "Scraps of Paper"
(\../)
(O.o)
(> <)

CVB Langley:

(in reply to HannoMeier)
Post #: 8
- 3/20/2003 11:35:03 PM   
rcwkent

 

Posts: 51
Joined: 11/6/2002
From: New York City
Status: offline 		You're absolutely right Admiral about the value of the engineers.


Unfortunately, the IJA never got around to manufacturing those
great bulldozers and other vehicles the US possesses in size.

_____________________________

"I don't know what the heck this logistics is that Marshall is always talking about, but I want some of it"
Admiral Ernest J King

(in reply to HannoMeier)
Post #: 9
- 3/21/2003 12:07:13 AM   
Admiral DadMan


Posts: 3627
Joined: 2/22/2002
From: A Lion uses all its might to catch a Rabbit
Status: offline 		The caveat to this stroke of brilliance is of course that their fatigue and disruption goes up and morale goes down with every attack...

So, the base will fall soon enough.

_____________________________

Scenario 127: "Scraps of Paper"
(\../)
(O.o)
(> <)

CVB Langley:

(in reply to HannoMeier)
Post #: 10
Re: Possible bug in 2.30 - Aircraft does not damage air... - 3/22/2003 8:05:55 PM   
siRkid


Posts: 6650
Joined: 1/29/2002
From: Orland FL
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Hanno Meier
[B]Hi all,

could some of you please check, if this is happening in your PBEM games too:

For several weeks, I am attacking PM with bombers from Lae, Buna and Gili Gili. These attacks begun in version 2.20 and the airfield was fully damaged.

Now we switched to 2.30 and the same attacks (airfield target) only cause ground casualities at the moment. Not a SINGLE airfield runway hit. This should be checked by matrix. I could provide a save.

Does others have the same problem?

Regards, Hanno [/B][/QUOTE]

Its hard to make a call on this one. Please update this thread if it continues to happen.

Rick

_____________________________

Former War in the Pacific Test Team Manager and Beta Tester for War in the East.


(in reply to HannoMeier)
Post #: 11
- 3/23/2003 9:01:35 PM   
HannoMeier


Posts: 155
Joined: 8/5/2001
From: Frankfurt, Germany
Status: offline 		Hello Kid,

thanks for your involvement. In my PBEM game with Dan Stafford, US-held Port Moresby airfield could not be damaged anymore by Japanese planes. I send it several large strikes at 1000ft aginst no AA over several turns. Here is one report example:


AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 12/29/42

Weather: Overcast

Air attack on Port Moresby , at 10,40

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 5
D3A Val x 8
B5N Kate x 10
G4M1 Betty x 23
J1N1-R Irving x 5
E13A1 Jake x 7

no losses


Allied ground losses:
Men lost 85

Attacking Level Bombers:
7 x G4M1 Betty at 1000 feet
3 x G4M1 Betty at 1000 feet
3 x G4M1 Betty at 1000 feet
10 x B5N Kate at 1000 feet
3 x G4M1 Betty at 1000 feet
7 x G4M1 Betty at 1000 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on Port Moresby , at 10,40

Japanese aircraft
A6M3 Zero x 3
D3A Val x 24
B5N Kate x 16
G3M Nell x 15
G4M1 Betty x 7

no losses


Allied ground losses:
Men lost 55

Attacking Level Bombers:
6 x G3M Nell at 1000 feet
3 x G3M Nell at 1000 feet
16 x B5N Kate at 1000 feet
3 x G4M1 Betty at 1000 feet
4 x G4M1 Betty at 1000 feet
3 x G3M Nell at 1000 feet
3 x G3M Nell at 1000 feet

(in reply to HannoMeier)
Post #: 12
- 3/23/2003 9:21:16 PM   
siRkid


Posts: 6650
Joined: 1/29/2002
From: Orland FL
Status: offline 		By any chance is the airfield already at 100% damage?

_____________________________

Former War in the Pacific Test Team Manager and Beta Tester for War in the East.


(in reply to HannoMeier)
Post #: 13
- 3/23/2003 9:33:45 PM   
HannoMeier


Posts: 155
Joined: 8/5/2001
From: Frankfurt, Germany
Status: offline 		According to Dan Stafford it is now at 0%, after it was at near 100% from constant bombing damage before patch 2.3.

Maybe he should also chime in, to confirm.

(in reply to HannoMeier)
Post #: 14
- 3/24/2003 12:16:50 AM   
siRkid


Posts: 6650
Joined: 1/29/2002
From: Orland FL
Status: offline 		Ok next time you send a bombing raid I'll need both saves and combat reports along with passwords. Send them to [email]sirkid@cfl.rr.com[/email]

Rick

_____________________________

Former War in the Pacific Test Team Manager and Beta Tester for War in the East.


(in reply to HannoMeier)
Post #: 15
- 3/24/2003 4:00:32 AM   
dpstafford


Posts: 1910
Joined: 5/26/2002
From: Colbert Nation
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Hanno Meier
[B]According to Dan Stafford it is now at 0%, after it was at near 100% from constant bombing damage before patch 2.3.
Maybe he should also chime in, to confirm. [/B][/QUOTE]
Sure. There is NO damage to the airfield. Further, during this period of immunity, there has not been a single SUPPLY hit either. That is what will ultimately prove more decisive.....

_____________________________


(in reply to HannoMeier)
Post #: 16
- 3/27/2003 11:12:56 PM   
siRkid


Posts: 6650
Joined: 1/29/2002
From: Orland FL
Status: offline 		I got the saves and I will test them out before moving them up the chain.

_____________________________

Former War in the Pacific Test Team Manager and Beta Tester for War in the East.


(in reply to HannoMeier)
Post #: 17
- 3/31/2003 11:05:35 PM   
djoosten

 

Posts: 39
Joined: 1/30/2003
From: Montreal, Canada
Status: offline 		I can agree that bombing runs at 1000 feet dont do any runway damage, only kills troops on that airfield. Now put your bomb run at 6000 feet for the level bombers, you should be surprized to see there a lot more accurate :) Note i tested this for both the American B17's and smaller level bombers and as well as the Japanese level bombers.

I have tested a few things out, if a base has a lot of AA on it, bombing at 20000 feet will do some nice damage and keep you safe from AA, you might get slight damage though but CAP is useless against you. If you got no big CAP against you, you can go as low as 10000 feet, now if AA isnt effective 6000 feet is the best alt for level bomb runs.

Also note the range of the planes, in normal range bombers carry twice the ammount then on the extended. Thats why i never even go after Rabaul in extended range because you end up not doing much good. Also if you use the medium bombers in addition to B17's you will see there expierence sky rocket and after 1-3 runs they will inflict very much damage. I had after 1-3 runs that had about 10 B17's and 30 Medium level bombers (a mix of all those with the largest range possible and first runs they had between 25-35 hits and after that i got up to 60-70 hits. Now after a few weeks i actually hit the 100 mark with just only 10 B17's and the rest is still medium bombers. This way i noticed you can attack 2-3 bases at the same time and get them to 100% damage in a few days. Note do these training bomb runs on lightly defended bases or you would get a reverse effect on the medium bombers. After that they seem to be less chicken and now they will even give a nice fight even against 30+ CAP

_____________________________

Dave "EuroLord" Joosten

(in reply to HannoMeier)
Post #: 18
- 3/31/2003 11:50:48 PM   
siRkid


Posts: 6650
Joined: 1/29/2002
From: Orland FL
Status: offline 		I will test this out useing the saves I have. Thanks for going the extra mile.

_____________________________

Former War in the Pacific Test Team Manager and Beta Tester for War in the East.


(in reply to HannoMeier)
Post #: 19
- 4/1/2003 2:02:49 AM   
djoosten

 

Posts: 39
Joined: 1/30/2003
From: Montreal, Canada
Status: offline 		Kid,

If you have a moment, can you take a peak here: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=35772

It talkes about some more issues arround the actually AF and AB defense vs air units .. in short words about "AA" capable units.

If you wish i can give you some detailed report on some findings, as well as saves.

Cheers,

_____________________________

Dave "EuroLord" Joosten

(in reply to HannoMeier)
Post #: 20
- 4/1/2003 3:20:03 AM   
Mr.Frag


Posts: 13410
Joined: 12/18/2002
From: Purgatory
Status: offline 		http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=34554

I also raised it here, from the other side of the fence, that multitudes of AA guns do not make any sizable difference to Air Attacks when they should be completely creaming them...

(in reply to HannoMeier)
Post #: 21
- 4/1/2003 4:38:01 AM   
djoosten

 

Posts: 39
Joined: 1/30/2003
From: Montreal, Canada
Status: offline 		I read your tests and yeah, seems you get the same results, seems these AA guns couldn't even shoot a duck if it was hanging on the barrel :D

Hope we get an answer on if they can fix this or how we can use them so they actually do something.

_____________________________

Dave "EuroLord" Joosten

(in reply to HannoMeier)
Post #: 22
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