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RE: Unorthodox - 7/1/2015 6:00:12 AM

JocMeister

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That is a full month worth of Corsairs if I remember correctly. Not a bad day for you!

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RE: Unorthodox - 7/1/2015 11:01:13 AM

Lowpe

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March 11, 1944

No night bombing.

Daytime sweep by Jugs and Corsairs over Tokyo before the next bombing run. I like that he is using these Lightnings as escorts, they really take it on the chin.

Good protection over Tokyo, despite only two squadrons flying CAP there. Tons, and tons of radar are the key here.

20+ Lightnings destroyed for a silly 9-10 hex raid on Tokyo. I can think of better uses for those Lightnings, but not from a Japanese perspective.

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< Message edited by Lowpe -- 7/1/2015 3:20:58 PM >

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RE: Unorthodox - 7/1/2015 11:03:37 AM

Lowpe

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Avengers...

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RE: Unorthodox - 7/1/2015 11:13:36 AM

Lowpe

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More and more bombers come for Tokyo...and another Corsair II sweep.

The beasts come last, and eventually the CAP is worn out.

20 of those FM2 are destroyed, 1 of the FM1.

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< Message edited by Lowpe -- 7/1/2015 3:19:07 PM >

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RE: Unorthodox - 7/1/2015 11:16:27 AM

Lowpe

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By this time the CAP is worn down to only two planes.

Look! What Joy! A new Jug.

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RE: Unorthodox - 7/1/2015 11:29:19 AM

Lowpe

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The Butchers Bill for today. Would like to kill more 4Es, and I bet I see this strategy from now on, the sacrificial Avengers flying in front of the 4Es.

First time for the FM2 Wildcat too.

Japan destroyed more than she lost, but really I need to destroy more. The refineries, and some engine factories got hit.

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RE: Unorthodox - 7/1/2015 11:43:15 AM

Lowpe

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More troops, engineers, AA for Honshu.

The convoys are just bulling their way thru with ASW ratings of 101, 62 and 44. I will add several more SC to the 44 level one today as it is also the farthest away. Perhaps I will divert them to Kagoshima via Okinawa to avoid subs.

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RE: Unorthodox - 7/1/2015 11:44:54 AM

Alfred

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You should pay very close attention to the identity of the Allied fighter units. When you do that you will probably find (a) carrier units flown off land bases, and (b) Marine units downgraded. All this opens up new Japanese ripostes.

With identity known, you can also check when they must be withdrawn.

Alfred

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RE: Unorthodox - 7/1/2015 11:58:36 AM

Lowpe

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I am pretty pleased with the day, I was worried Tokyo would get really pounded since the runways were in bad shape, but enough CAP bled over to put up a credible defense.

The runways are repaired into the 50s today, so I will probably base more there today.

I will state again I don't understand why the Allies continue to hammer me like this, when he could bomb the industry in eastern Honshu with no opposition and industry elsewhere with little opposition. I am fairly weak at night, but there again he flies right into my strength and doesn't stretch the defense.

I find it hard to believe he is using FM1 and FM2.

We really are on a pace for extreme plane carnage.

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RE: Unorthodox - 7/1/2015 12:04:11 PM

Alfred

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There are very few good strategic AE players. Nemo121 was one of the very few who really understood strategy, planned accordingly and implemented it properly. It is why he had such a good track record in playing AE.

Your opponent is not a good strategist.

Alfred

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RE: Unorthodox - 7/1/2015 12:07:55 PM

Lowpe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

There are very few good strategic AE players.� Nemo121 was one of the very few who really understood strategy, planned accordingly and implemented it properly.� It is why he had such a good track record in playing AE.

Your opponent is not a good strategist.

Alfred

Unfortunately, he wields a big stick!

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RE: Unorthodox - 7/1/2015 12:50:13 PM

Lowpe

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These Avengers look impressive, but not a single one survived to bomb Tokyo. They would have died in greater numbers but many unescorted bombers withdrew when they failed to link up with fighters.

I think if the Allies would assign 1 squadron to escort, and 1 squadron to bomb, and have them come in at unique altitudes (with the ftr squadron targeted to the bombers target), then there would be a very good chance of escorting the bombers better if that were his goal.

As best I can tell, I traded 2.5 (maybe less) fighters for each Allied fighter during the early sweeps, despite flying at higher altitudes. Luckily the Allied sweeps came in at lower altitudes of 20-25K. This is so much better than a 10-1 ratio, that I really feel pretty good.

For whatever reason, his F4U1 seem to do better than the Jugs. Pilot differential? Better
maneuver down low? Better leadership?

Allies have been in Hokkaido for a while now, and have not invaded anywhere else.

To me that points to another massive invasion(s), most likely at eastern Honshu. We are building forts, moving men and equipment there to counter while not ignoring the rest of the strategic map: Bonins (not hideously important now, except as a stepping stone to Okinawa); Okinawa and Japanese Islands (very important to keep Honshu open); Luzon, Formosa and Thailand.

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RE: Unorthodox - 7/1/2015 12:56:17 PM

Lowpe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

You should pay very close attention to the identity of the Allied fighter units.� When you do that you will probably find (a) carrier units flown off land bases, and (b) Marine units downgraded.� All this opens up new Japanese ripostes.

With identity known, you can also check when they must be withdrawn.

Alfred

Alfred, that is above my pay grade!

I do know there are carrier units being flown against me from land.

What do you mean by Marine Units downgraded? The Wildcat squadrons?

How does knowing this, provide me with an opportunity to strike back?

I can bomb/sweep Hokkaido around when the units get withdrawn?

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RE: Unorthodox - 7/1/2015 1:38:34 PM

JocMeister

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Your opponent must be REALLY low on planes if he is flying Kittens in combat...Another good day for you I would say. He will soon be out of planes if he keeps this up. Lack of overall objective/plan is really hurting him. Its perfectly fine to suffer losses. But he is doing it for nothing in return which is just wasting planes.

I�ve always done better with the Corsair then the P47 for no reason whatsoever.

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RE: Unorthodox - 7/1/2015 2:25:36 PM

Lowpe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Your opponent must be REALLY low on planes if he is flying Kittens in combat...Another good day for you I would say. He will soon be out of planes if he keeps this up. Lack of overall objective/plan is really hurting him. Its perfectly fine to suffer losses. But he is doing it for nothing in return which is just wasting planes.

I�ve always done better with the Corsair then the P47 for no reason whatsoever.

Allies are on a pace to lose 1500 planes this month.

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RE: Unorthodox - 7/1/2015 2:49:25 PM

Lowpe

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Thinking about my turn...think I will try to bomb Hokkaido (Bihoro no fighters, bombers and aux present) and also sweep Muroran with something, Franks maybe at 30K.

Over in Thailand, I may bomb Chiang Mai (bombers, no fighters present).

I wonder what the Allies will do over Tokyo? Strike again, his 4Es have flown two days in a row? I think he pretty much only has two relatively fresh Jugs squadrons, but they have flown for two consecutive days...the other fighter squadrons have taken tough losses.

42nd Division loading at Fusan, 38th unloading at Fukuoka, 63rd Brigade & 30th Base Force & 26th Tank Rgt rail-roading out of Fukuoka. That is a 10% increase in the assault value of Honshu.

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RE: Unorthodox - 7/1/2015 3:21:06 PM

Bullwinkle58

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Allies are on a pace to lose 1500 planes this month.

In a sense it doesn't matter though. He has roughly 10,000 pilots in the pools and will never run out nor pay tax on them. If an FM damages a SR3 fighter and then dies it's a VP. Just one. And a third-gen fighter sits and repairs for a week or more. 1500 VPs in a month is sustainable given what he can do elsewhere against your navy and moving LCUs.

I'm with Alfred. I don't get his strategy. He's in the HI to stay; there's no hurry. You're giving him vast areas of the PTO for almost free by hustling the whole shebang back home. He has years to go. He should consolidate, build piles on Hokkaido, harass, but wait for his 4E situation to gel. Elsewhere he has thousands of VPs available for not much. There's no hurry. But he seems to be hurrying. An invasion of Honshu would be the ultimate hurry. There's just no need in 1944, if ever.

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RE: Unorthodox - 7/1/2015 4:21:32 PM

Crackaces

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Allies are on a pace to lose 1500 planes this month.

In a sense it doesn't matter though. He has roughly 10,000 pilots in the pools and will never run out nor pay tax on them. If an FM damages a SR3 fighter and then dies it's a VP. Just one. And a third-gen fighter sits and repairs for a week or more. 1500 VPs in a month is sustainable given what he can do elsewhere against your navy and moving LCUs.

I'm with Alfred. I don't get his strategy. He's in the HI to stay; there's no hurry. You're giving him vast areas of the PTO for almost free by hustling the whole shebang back home. He has years to go. He should consolidate, build piles on Hokkaido, harass, but wait for his 4E situation to gel. Elsewhere he has thousands of VPs available for not much. There's no hurry. But he seems to be hurrying. An invasion of Honshu would be the ultimate hurry. There's just no need in 1944, if ever.

The strategy is to use the "big stick" as previously pointed out and invade Honshu as you have pointed out.
One thing I have liked about this game from day one is the nuances that allow a better more astute player to develop very sophisticated strategies.
In comparison to the old Avalon Hill Board games that were in my opinion possessed very sophisticated backgammon stratagems. That is look at CRT, find best combination of soak offs and 3-1 attacks and let the dice roll. The results are like backgammon in that a series of die rolls and reactions to the results.
In WitP AE, a well thought out strategy develops in spite of die rolls. (Although one major carrier battle early can throw a huge monkey wrench in the works).

Although not a perfect solution, the Allies can win using the sledgehammer to capture Honshu. One thing is that maybe the VP system does not penalize the Allies for wanton disregard for lives and material forcing a better strategy.

I do think the Allies are pulling off a Goering .. First going after Manpower and subsequently LI/Supplies then shifting targets. I think the game's sophticated treatment of the IJ economy allows for a concentrated effort at one weak point or the rope for the Allies to waste resources spreading attacks over a spectrum.

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RE: Unorthodox - 7/1/2015 4:48:58 PM

Lowpe

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Turn is away...and now I am thinking I may have left a base without CAP; and I didn't to a pre-save save. Oh well, perhaps my memory is wrong, perhaps the Allies didn't spot it, and perhaps the Allies are so focused on Tokyo they are ignoring other aspects.

Sweeping Muroran with Franks at 30K, I think that should get them the dive. Probably fight against F6Fs I think.

Boosted the CAP at Tokyo by 200 fighters. I am little worried he flies deep, but I do have CAP everywhere. Some of the rear bases have fighters on 40/40/20 CAP/Train/Rest at 0 range. I need to keep generating pilots and although they don't train as fast the experience gains are nice, plus fighters are there to cover a bomber raid.

I added ASW to the third of the troop convoys heading to Shanghai, thought about switching routes, but will just try to muscle thru with good ASW plane coverage and big ASW protected convoys. Plenty of spare capacity on the convoy so if I do lose something it won't be thousands lost (I hope).

Still nothing spotted south of Paramushiro...everything there is ready to strike.

Recon shows no large invasion fleets loading up at Bihoro.

Bombing an unprotected, I hope, Chiang Mai, at 7K. Not very many guns there. Setting up a shore bombardment on Tavoy using stealth to stay unspotted I hope. Might be able to destroy some Jugs/Spits on the ground there. Need to be real careful here.

< Message edited by Lowpe -- 7/1/2015 5:50:46 PM >

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RE: Unorthodox - 7/1/2015 4:57:20 PM

Lowpe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Allies are on a pace to lose 1500 planes this month.

In a sense it doesn't matter though. He has roughly 10,000 pilots in the pools and will never run out nor pay tax on them. If an FM damages a SR3 fighter and then dies it's a VP. Just one. And a third-gen fighter sits and repairs for a week or more. 1500 VPs in a month is sustainable given what he can do elsewhere against your navy and moving LCUs.

I'm with Alfred. I don't get his strategy. He's in the HI to stay; there's no hurry. You're giving him vast areas of the PTO for almost free by hustling the whole shebang back home. He has years to go. He should consolidate, build piles on Hokkaido, harass, but wait for his 4E situation to gel. Elsewhere he has thousands of VPs available for not much. There's no hurry. But he seems to be hurrying. An invasion of Honshu would be the ultimate hurry. There's just no need in 1944, if ever.

The losses matter really to stave off AV. I am shrinking my defensive perimeter, and really haven't suffered major losses anywhere a little on the Marianas and at Hokkaido. So my land losses are light, and as long as I can save my troops in Thailand, I am pretty good shape with Land combat VP.

He is coming for Honshu, and the question is can I hold him on the beaches?

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RE: Unorthodox - 7/1/2015 5:07:02 PM

Lokasenna

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

The Butchers Bill for today. Would like to kill more 4Es, and I bet I see this strategy from now on, the sacrificial Avengers flying in front of the 4Es.

First time for the FM2 Wildcat too.

Japan destroyed more than she lost, but really I need to destroy more. The refineries, and some engine factories got hit.

The P-38J arrives at 50/mo from 12/43 until 5/44. Don't remember what his other P-38 losses were, but losing 20 on the day, assuming he caused damage with the raid, isn't awful... merely bad.

He should have some groups with the P-51B soon... I doubt you'll see many P-38s on escort again.

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RE: Unorthodox - 7/1/2015 5:07:28 PM

Lowpe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

I do think the Allies are pulling off a Goering .. First going after Manpower and subsequently LI/Supplies then shifting targets. I think the game's sophticated treatment of the IJ economy allows for a concentrated effort at one weak point or the rope for the Allies to waste resources spreading attacks over a spectrum.

Currently he is on a refineries kick, plus plane engines, but he seems to jump around on the engine factories. He very well might go back and hit the runways again too? Maybe he will go back to night bombing (although I think he is pretty frustrated there

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RE: Unorthodox - 7/1/2015 5:09:35 PM

Lowpe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna
The P-38J arrives at 50/mo from 12/43 until 5/44. Don't remember what his other P-38 losses were, but losing 20 on the day, assuming he caused damage with the raid, isn't awful... merely bad.

He should have some groups with the P-51B soon... I doubt you'll see many P-38s on escort again.

It was the 4Es at the very end of the day that did damage. The Lightning escorted Avengers all died, but they did help to wear the CAP down.

I think he is basically almost out of P38s of any flavor.

< Message edited by Lowpe -- 7/1/2015 6:10:59 PM >

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RE: Unorthodox - 7/1/2015 5:36:31 PM

vicberg

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Victory Disease on his part. He would be on Honshu right now if he had focused his air on supporting an invasion. He had the opportunity while you were weak (and still somewhat are). Wasted opportunity on his part.

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RE: Unorthodox - 7/1/2015 5:42:32 PM

Lowpe

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Looking at upcoming reinforcements, and at Iwo Jima I get this little gem! I had thought it was simply a naval guard unit, boy was I mistaken.

These guys are just packed with goodness! Now, the question is do I bring them back to Honshu, and send them to Akita?

Allies really love using SBDs against those bases, and the 25mm really shine on defense. Plus more DP guns are never bad!

There is quite a few of these named reinforcements coming, including a monster CD unit for Naha in 48 days. I really need these kind of troops! Very pleased.

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< Message edited by Lowpe -- 7/1/2015 6:48:45 PM >

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RE: Unorthodox - 7/1/2015 5:43:55 PM

vicberg

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This AAR plus others is making it clear. You need a strategy from day 1 of the war for both sides and you need to stick with it. Once he invaded Hokkaido, he had two choices: 1) invade Honshu or 2) focus on ONE aspect of the Japanese economy to blow into oblivion while invading PI, etc.. He's done neither to date.

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RE: Unorthodox - 7/1/2015 7:59:20 PM

Lowpe

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Allied plane pools and losses (according to Tracker):

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< Message edited by Lowpe -- 7/1/2015 9:02:07 PM >

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RE: Unorthodox - 7/1/2015 8:16:31 PM

Lokasenna

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quote:

ORIGINAL: vicberg

This AAR plus others is making it clear. You need a strategy from day 1 of the war for both sides and you need to stick with it. Once he invaded Hokkaido, he had two choices: 1) invade Honshu or 2) focus on ONE aspect of the Japanese economy to blow into oblivion while invading PI, etc.. He's done neither to date.

I'll say you need a strategic goal, not so much a Grand Plan that you stick to At All Costs. Adapting to changing circumstances is best.

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RE: Unorthodox - 7/1/2015 9:03:40 PM

leehunt27@bloomberg.net

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In response to Crackaces post above, while using the sledgehammer inefficiently is definitely not a great strategy, the US was prepared for massive casualties in Operation Olympic and without the atomic bomb it probably would have happened. If this Allied player subdues Hokkaido and shuts down the Honshu economy, basically winning the war a year early, that's worth substantial extra casualties. I won a game as the Allies once in late 1942 by taking Marcus Island, Iwo Jima and then some islands SW of Japan. My opponent probably could have massed and retaken them, but he was shaken by the surprise and the game ended. But i lost at least 40,000 troops, about 50 transports, and a few carriers in the assault. My casualties in that short war were far higher but in the long run still better than a longer conflict.

So anyway, that begs the question, what level of casualties worth a 1944 win in Hokkaido? Though i tend to agree with most on the forum here that the Allies are better off now cherry picking Singapore, Taiwan, Manila, etc. And scouring the seas to sink every last Japanese ship...

< Message edited by leehunt27@bloomberg.net -- 7/2/2015 3:20:42 AM >

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RE: Unorthodox - 7/1/2015 9:54:40 PM

Lowpe

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Problem is, he can't shut down Honshu's economy from Hokkaido alone, at least not in 1944. He can hurt it, can't destroy it. At least I don't think so. We will see, I guess!

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