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RE: Unorthodox - 7/10/2015 2:18:25 PM

Uncivil Engineer

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quote:

ORIGINAL: leehunt27@bloomberg.net

@mind_messing: This link was amazing, thanks. Not surprising given military bureaucracies but also I bet some people paid attention and learned a lesson for us:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennium_Challenge_2002

Not with this administration in charge.

(in reply to leehunt27@bloomberg.net)

Post #: 5461

RE: Unorthodox - 7/10/2015 2:48:25 PM

leehunt27@bloomberg.net

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oh I meant not just our military, but their's! (unfortunately)

< Message edited by leehunt27@bloomberg.net -- 7/10/2015 3:48:48 PM >

_____________________________

John 21:25

(in reply to Uncivil Engineer)

Post #: 5462

RE: Unorthodox - 7/10/2015 4:07:46 PM

Lokasenna

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Uncivil Engineer

quote:

ORIGINAL: leehunt27@bloomberg.net

@mind_messing: This link was amazing, thanks. Not surprising given military bureaucracies but also I bet some people paid attention and learned a lesson for us:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennium_Challenge_2002

Not with this administration in charge.

O rly?

I heard that we got an entirely new officer corps in 2008 also, in all the services. Everybody who was in the military before 2008 either retired or forgot all of their prior training and institutional knowledge to make room for the buffoonery that you are implying.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

My carefully hoarded supply of vehicle points for the upcoming Armor units and upgrades is wiped out this turn as two HQ's appear as reinforcements: an Air and a Ground. Both are modern HQs with motorized support.

The first draws 60 motorized support; the second 15 of 60. Exactly 25%. This represent emergency replacements (wrong technical term, but you get the idea) and I believe I wasn't charged for the 15 motorized support in vehicle points. I certainly didn't have enough vehicle points to pay for them (motorized is 15 load).

So when I get the 27th Tank Regiment in 5 days it will come on with 25% Equipment due to my vehicle point shortage.

I get another HQ unit with motorized support in 2 days, and interestingly enough it is listed as coming in with 18 Motorized support currently. Pretty neat how this game works.

I hate to come in with an "I told you so!", but didn't I mention when you took over the game that the vehicle points and factories you inherited were insufficient?

Still, you'll get 25% tanks... What does your VEH points graph look like in Tracker? Will you ever again be positive? I'm wondering if you'll be able to fill out the units.

(in reply to Lowpe)

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RE: Unorthodox - 7/10/2015 7:02:37 PM

Lowpe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna
I hate to come in with an "I told you so!", but didn't I mention when you took over the game that the vehicle points and factories you inherited were insufficient?

Still, you'll get 25% tanks... What does your VEH points graph look like in Tracker? Will you ever again be positive? I'm wondering if you'll be able to fill out the units.

Even I knew I was going to be short vehicles when I took over. The original player never increased vehicles at all!

Day 1 I doubled production; guess I should have tripled it.

I will never catch up with the shortage in motorized support units....but I might do alright with AFVs thru using the stockpile function and micromanaging replacements (closely coordinated to reinforcements). It will be a juggling act.

But still, if you want to you can pat yourself on the back some more!

I don't mind.

(in reply to Lokasenna)

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RE: Unorthodox - 7/10/2015 7:10:38 PM

Lowpe

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Turn is sent...

By my notes I have 24 squadrons of bombers attacking the Deathstar. Not all will hit it depending where it goes, but a dozen Betty/Frances will most likely.

Every squadron is from a different base and has escorts, sometimes more than one squadron. Almost all are under command control from HQa, plentiful supplies, and great morale, aggression, etc., etc...

I hope Honshu doesn't suffer too much.

All good pilots, except for some of the close in kamikaze, but even they don't stink.

Attack altitude from 2000 to 38,000 feet.

Frances, Judy, Jill, Myojo, Zekes, Helen IIc, Lilly IIc are all attacking. I am hoping for a layered attack with the closer single engine planes hitting first...but I am sure lots will go wrong. Just hoping something goes right.

Pray for Japan, she needs it.

(in reply to Lowpe)

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RE: Unorthodox - 7/10/2015 7:14:23 PM

vicberg

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Did you sacrifice a live chicken yet to the WITP Gods? If not, it's too late.

Repeat this mantra: "Oh Betty Betty, Daddy needs a new pair of shoes." There's a mudra (hand movements) that goes with it. Blow on your hands as if rolling dice and then make your hand move as if rolling dice.

Almost works every time.

< Message edited by vicberg -- 7/10/2015 8:17:43 PM >

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 5466

RE: Turnaround? Lowpe (J) vs Tiemanj (A) Stock - 7/10/2015 7:18:49 PM

Lowpe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

I would say get your economy under control and then pick your MLRs. The DEI is still a long ways away from his reinforcement centers, while closer to yours, and is probably still be worth taking Java, if you can.

Lok, that is your very first bit of helpful advice in this AAR.

You might have told me to increase my vehicles more; I think I upgraded vehicles a total of three times in the game.

(in reply to Lokasenna)

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RE: Turnaround? Lowpe (J) vs Tiemanj (A) Stock - 7/10/2015 7:27:08 PM

Lowpe

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Lets see, other things I am doing this turn...

shipping a dozen AA to Fusan...probably the last of the AA to come back from the Front.

Moving a division to Kanoya. It is one of the few bases on Honshu off railroad.

Trying a daring raid on Hokkaido, in low and fast, and out hopefully. The runways the targets, bombers and aux, oh my.

Ran away with my KB and surface fleets.

Running away in Thailand.

I actually spent some supply increasing engine and plane production in western Honshu. Not like I need to make 1946 or anything.

Empties Yokohama of planes. Normally he doesn't strike the same place twice.

Large oil and fuel convoys are resuming their shipping in the SRA. Who knows how long that will last for?

(in reply to Lowpe)

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RE: Turnaround? Lowpe (J) vs Tiemanj (A) Stock - 7/10/2015 7:28:14 PM

vicberg

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And chanting that mantra right?

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RE: Turnaround? Lowpe (J) vs Tiemanj (A) Stock - 7/10/2015 7:39:39 PM

Lowpe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: vicberg

And chanting that mantra right?

Rubbing Buddha, chanting, praying, hoping the Allied radar operator spill their Pepsi so we can get a little Pepsi Syndrome crashing the radar down into the ocean.

Really anything.

Of course the weather will be bad, and all those clicks for naught.

< Message edited by Lowpe -- 7/10/2015 8:40:21 PM >

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RE: Turnaround? Lowpe (J) vs Tiemanj (A) Stock - 7/10/2015 7:41:34 PM

Lowpe

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You know what I forgot to do?

I was planning on using my Irving Sa, in a nighttime strafing attack of the Deathstar. How cool would that have been?

(in reply to Lowpe)

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RE: Turnaround? Lowpe (J) vs Tiemanj (A) Stock - 7/10/2015 7:54:43 PM

vicberg

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Oh, and don't forget the lucky shirt before running the combat turn and donate to charitable institution or person. Cover all bases.

Night time Irving raid would have been fun to watch. "Your shooting a whale"..."no I'm not!"..."Yes you"...(radio traffic cut short as AA fire erupts)

(in reply to Lowpe)

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RE: Turnaround? Lowpe (J) vs Tiemanj (A) Stock - 7/10/2015 9:56:11 PM

Lowpe

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One of my many regrets in this game is not building more Nicks.

I seriously underestimated the ha31 engines I would need this game, and barely have enough for Nick D, let alone Nick C. I don't think I spotted the Nick C change of engine until too late. At least that is my story, and I am sticking to it.

I also planned on using the Randy. Well, no joy there.

Early on I never really had any luck using the Nicks, so I pretty much lost interest. Of course it is all me, and now I wish I had a about 7 full squadron for deep layered defense where bombers and B29s will go but far away from fighters. This simple step in 1942 would have yielded a deep defense which would have at least put FB in the air when the 4Es came calling.

For PP, you can convert any light bomber group into FB; and that would have helped a lot right now. Next game they will play a larger role, I kind of want to minimize building 2E bombers like Helen, Sally or Lilly (except for the IIB and IIc) and instead focus on using more Nicks and also single engine bombers where air superiority is established.

Of course if the Helen takes out a couple of carriers on the morrow, I may change my song!

In this game, I am still producing Nick Bs

, egads, You know the one, with its 37mm cannon that can't hit the broadside of a flying fortress.

I do have some Cs up and flying around, and one day his bombers will run into them and we will be able to see how they do against 4Es. Unfortunately, we know how the Nick B will do.

< Message edited by Lowpe -- 7/10/2015 10:58:04 PM >

(in reply to vicberg)

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RE: Turnaround? Lowpe (J) vs Tiemanj (A) Stock - 7/10/2015 11:54:40 PM

MrKane

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

One of my many regrets in this game is not building more Nicks.

I seriously underestimated the ha31 engines I would need this game, and barely have enough for Nick D, let alone Nick C. I don't think I spotted the Nick C change of engine until too late. At least that is my story, and I am sticking to it.

I also planned on using the Randy. Well, no joy there.

Early on I never really had any luck using the Nicks, so I pretty much lost interest. Of course it is all me, and now I wish I had a about 7 full squadron for deep layered defense where bombers and B29s will go but far away from fighters. This simple step in 1942 would have yielded a deep defense which would have at least put FB in the air when the 4Es came calling.

For PP, you can convert any light bomber group into FB; and that would have helped a lot right now. Next game they will play a larger role, I kind of want to minimize building 2E bombers like Helen, Sally or Lilly (except for the IIB and IIc) and instead focus on using more Nicks and also single engine bombers where air superiority is established.

Of course if the Helen takes out a couple of carriers on the morrow, I may change my song!

In this game, I am still producing Nick Bs , egads, You know the one, with its 37mm cannon that can't hit the broadside of a flying fortress. I do have some Cs up and flying around, and one day his bombers will run into them and we will be able to see how they do against 4Es. Unfortunately, we know how the Nick B will do.

Nick are the best IJA fighter until allied player gets P-40K. My 90 Nicks scored ~300 allied planes for just 34 Nicks during my 2nd game now I am playing. Most of kills comes form sweeps allied bases. Later it become terror for the sky for Chinese troopers troops. It play the same role for IJA like P-40K for USAAF, it fill very well gap between 1st generation fighters and 2nd generation.

< Message edited by MrKane -- 7/11/2015 12:56:08 AM >

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 5474

RE: Turnaround? Lowpe (J) vs Tiemanj (A) Stock - 7/11/2015 2:30:56 AM

leehunt27@bloomberg.net

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How did the mass air attack go?

_____________________________

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RE: Turnaround? Lowpe (J) vs Tiemanj (A) Stock - 7/11/2015 5:02:33 AM

Lokasenna

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

I would say get your economy under control and then pick your MLRs. The DEI is still a long ways away from his reinforcement centers, while closer to yours, and is probably still be worth taking Java, if you can.

Lok, that is your very first bit of helpful advice in this AAR.

You might have told me to increase my vehicles more; I think I upgraded vehicles a total of three times in the game.

Hrm, clearly I should have sprinkled in a lot more unhelpful stuff.

(in reply to Lowpe)

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RE: Turnaround? Lowpe (J) vs Tiemanj (A) Stock - 7/11/2015 10:13:56 AM

Encircled

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I had good success at low level naval strafing attacks with the Nick Bs in my last game.

_____________________________

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RE: Turnaround? Lowpe (J) vs Tiemanj (A) Stock - 7/11/2015 10:28:11 AM

Lowpe

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March 19, 1944

No night attack.

During the day the deathstar moves east, I guessed right. Out of thunderstorms they sweep and combine with land base air to savage Gifu.

My attacks go all helter skelter. The first arriving are the Betty raids. Nothing gets past the CAP, not a plane. Many raids went in without escorts because the escorts joined up earlier for a cooperative package.

I think I am better off sending in everything at the exact same altitude. Or maybe if I would have picked three altitudes to attack at like 2k, 15K, and 30K.

I really am quite poor at this.

One of the early attacks.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Lowpe -- 7/11/2015 11:29:00 AM >

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RE: Turnaround? Lowpe (J) vs Tiemanj (A) Stock - 7/11/2015 10:34:20 AM

Lowpe

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This attack worked as planned, 1 sentai of fighters and 1 sentai of bombers all at the same altitude, same base.

Attachment (1)

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RE: Turnaround? Lowpe (J) vs Tiemanj (A) Stock - 7/11/2015 10:46:17 AM

Lowpe

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In the afternoon the Kamikaze Helens do better....don't ask me how?

The Zeroes flew from Osaka at 11K; the Tonies and Helens from Fukuoka at 9K. Plenty of radar warning....how in the world did 6 of those Helens penetrate the cap, when nothing else could even come close?

Just amazing.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Lowpe -- 7/11/2015 11:46:52 AM >

(in reply to Lowpe)

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RE: Turnaround? Lowpe (J) vs Tiemanj (A) Stock - 7/11/2015 10:52:08 AM

Lowpe

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Lots of planes spent...plus Gifu hit pretty hard...for one hit. We are on a roll now!

Wouldn't bother me if I could figure out how and why the Helens got thru. Or had any bit of enlightenment on how to attack these carriers.

I have probably lost 4000 planes trying to penetrate the allied Carrier cap this game.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Lowpe -- 7/11/2015 11:52:51 AM >

(in reply to Lowpe)

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RE: Turnaround? Lowpe (J) vs Tiemanj (A) Stock - 7/11/2015 11:03:20 AM

Lowpe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

I would say get your economy under control and then pick your MLRs. The DEI is still a long ways away from his reinforcement centers, while closer to yours, and is probably still be worth taking Java, if you can.

Lok, that is your very first bit of helpful advice in this AAR.

You might have told me to increase my vehicles more; I think I upgraded vehicles a total of three times in the game.

Hrm, clearly I should have sprinkled in a lot more unhelpful stuff.

You did tell me to not put so much into the rockets.

Michael told me all my late plane research would be for naught.

Everybody thought I could do better with my carriers than I did.

Nobody thought it was a big invasion of Hokkaido.

Lets face facts, I am pretty darn poor at most aspects of this game.

(in reply to Lokasenna)

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RE: Turnaround? Lowpe (J) vs Tiemanj (A) Stock - 7/11/2015 11:08:11 AM

Lowpe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrKane

Nick are the best IJA fighter until allied player gets P-40K. My 90 Nicks scored ~300 allied planes for just 34 Nicks during my 2nd game now I am playing. Most of kills comes form sweeps allied bases. Later it become terror for the sky for Chinese troopers troops. It play the same role for IJA like P-40K for USAAF, it fill very well gap between 1st generation fighters and 2nd generation.

I got Nicks late, and with relatively poor pilots. I tried to use them in a anti Lightning role and they died -- due to my poor understanding of how to counter sweeps. I did do one or two sweeps with them, and then I was off to using them in China in a ground attack role and once in Burma in a low altitude anti-shipping role.

(in reply to MrKane)

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RE: Turnaround? Lowpe (J) vs Tiemanj (A) Stock - 7/11/2015 11:12:02 AM

Lowpe

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Well, if the Allies coordinate their air strikes with planes from Hokkaido and the Carriers -- and they focus on hitting my engines...it is pretty grim.

I will try another attack on the carriers this day, but I think I will try to model it on the Helen strike. Multiple squadrons on escort, and fewer attack squadrons.

He will probably strike at Osaka or Tokyo or Nagoya this day. Have to see where the big engine factories are.

(in reply to Lowpe)

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RE: Turnaround? Lowpe (J) vs Tiemanj (A) Stock - 7/11/2015 11:23:11 AM

leehunt27@bloomberg.net

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Frustrating on the attacks. Doesn't seem worth it to me to attack the Death Star without 200 fighters on Escort from the same base? If not more?

_____________________________

John 21:25

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RE: Turnaround? Lowpe (J) vs Tiemanj (A) Stock - 7/11/2015 11:30:04 AM

Lowpe

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My attack on Bihoro did well, even with the reduced bomb load for being sneaky.

Unfortunately the 60-80 planes (bombers and aux) that had been there for the last 5 days are all gone. Only two planes there.

Can't do anything right.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Lowpe -- 7/11/2015 12:34:11 PM >

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RE: Turnaround? Lowpe (J) vs Tiemanj (A) Stock - 7/11/2015 11:32:22 AM

Lowpe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: leehunt27@bloomberg.net

Frustrating on the attacks. Doesn't seem worth it to me to attack the Death Star without 200 fighters on Escort from the same base? If not more?

Yep, I guess that is the road I will take.

I have tried it in the past, with Frances, and after a very short engagement with the escorts the Allied CAP was into the Frances' shooting them all down. But I think at least that method has had some success at getting the bombers thru (against the BB at Hokkaido it has worked, but no hits).

< Message edited by Lowpe -- 7/11/2015 12:33:40 PM >

(in reply to leehunt27@bloomberg.net)

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RE: Turnaround? Lowpe (J) vs Tiemanj (A) Stock - 7/11/2015 11:36:31 AM

leehunt27@bloomberg.net

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This kind of begs the tactical/strategic question: Do you fight mass with mass? The entire Japanese airforce versus the CV Death Star TF? Do you launch attacks from every base in Japan to whittle down his CAP and hope the 5th wave gets through? Or try to attack the rest of his underprotected naval forces elsewhere?

How many planes are you willing to lose trying to attrition the Death Star fighter CAP, or does he replenish the lost Hellcats quickly?

Lots of questions sorry but only you can decide.

My bet is ignore the Death Star and try to make the rest of his fleet feel abandoned terrified :) Ignoring the Death Star may also mean constant shuttling of air squadrons to "safe" bases.

_____________________________

John 21:25

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RE: Turnaround? Lowpe (J) vs Tiemanj (A) Stock - 7/11/2015 12:27:30 PM

njp72

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Lol, the challenges of playing Japan in 44/45.

My 2 cents:

1. You took over a impossible position and made it into an enjoyable, challenging game.

2. It is only a game.

3. If all else fails refer back to point 2 :-)

Seriously, once I made a conscious decision in a previous game not to try to target Allied fleet CVs (cap is murderous and too hard to hit) but instead try to target other elements of the fleet you can inflict decent damage.

CVEs and merchant shipping are particularly vulnerable. With the CVs try to attrite the naval aircraft not the shipping.

Ah the misery of playing Japan in 44/45. :-)

You did tell me to not put so much into the rockets.

Michael told me all my late plane research would be for naught.

Everybody thought I could do better with my carriers than I did.

Nobody thought it was a big invasion of Hokkaido.

Lets face facts, I am pretty darn poor at most aspects of this game.

[/quote]

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 5489

RE: Turnaround? Lowpe (J) vs Tiemanj (A) Stock - 7/11/2015 12:42:03 PM

Lowpe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: njp72

Lol, the challenges of playing Japan in 44/45.

My 2 cents:

1. You took over a impossible position and made it into an enjoyable, challenging game.

2. It is only a game.

3. If all else fails refer back to point 2 :-)

Seriously, once I made a conscious decision in a previous game not to try to target Allied fleet CVs (cap is murderous and too hard to hit) but instead try to target other elements of the fleet you can inflict decent damage.

CVEs and merchant shipping are particularly vulnerable. With the CVs try to attrite the naval aircraft not the shipping.

Ah the misery of playing Japan in 44/45. :-)

Thanks,

I think I have to try on the deathstar again. His tactics of combining its planes with land based strikes at my engine factories will leave me with nothing. I have to turn off Frances factories to conserve Ha45 today.

I think he will go after either Kobe or Hamamatsu. They are the largest remaining Ha45 factories.

I am putting the Irving Sa on night attacks at 1000 feet. They are all piloted by Tracom wonders, and might actually hit something.

Given the rainy weather forecast, I think I will use one squadron of Judies, D4Y4 escorted with as many planes as I can muster.

(in reply to njp72)

Post #: 5490