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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's Eagle Day to Bombing the Reich >> Scenarios and Modding >> RE: [W.I.P] New Life for EDBTR :)

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RE: [W.I.P] New Life for EDBTR :) - 7/12/2015 1:45:39 AM

simcityrefund

Posts: 64
Joined: 5/11/2015
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so excited that you are yrying to fix this!! would like to play the game again with this mod

(in reply to AlterEgo)

Post #: 61

RE: [W.I.P] New Life for EDBTR :) - 7/12/2015 2:16:27 AM

warshipbuilder

Posts: 1960
Joined: 2/23/2013
From: C-eh-n-eh-d-eh
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quote:

hard coded is not the problem!
Because of my dll-injection I can rewrite all hard coded stuff...

I think I am going to put you in my will

If you haven't already, you are about to become the new one man BTR tech department.

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warshipbuilder

Any ship can be a minesweeper, once.
ED/BTR Ressurection Project
https://www.bombercommandmuseumarchives.ca/

(in reply to simcityrefund)

Post #: 62

RE: [W.I.P] New Life for EDBTR :) - 7/12/2015 5:46:42 PM

npsergio

Posts: 185
Joined: 1/23/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AlterEgo

quote:

ORIGINAL by npsergio
- for some reason the allied was not able to target the oil industry in Romania. The bombing raid failed to bomb a specific target everytime (Urinea Orion if IRC). They had recent recon, and attacked during daylight and good weather. It was targeted several times, so it's a very bad luck stuff, or some kind of bug.

Thanks a lot, npsergio, your info are very appreciated!
Regarding "Unirea Orion", this location is not in the game or better said, it has a delay of 999 days.
I'm not the expert to tell you why this location has a delay...nor can I tell you, why this location
was shown on the map. I will investigate this issue in the future.

quote:

Bugs:
- from time to time, after bombing, bomber raids return disorganized to the enemy territory. I agreed with my opponent not to attack these returning raids, but they suffer AA atacks.

yeah, this is an old bug, mostly happens in PBEM games.
If you have a savegame, where this bug occurs, please send it to me!

quote:

Original Cohimbra
And for the rest, I like your ideas, especially the commander change ones.

I totally agree with what Cohimbra said!

I don�t know why Unirea Orion have a 999 delay... maybe it was decided to eliminate it as a traget in Ploesti? I don�t know.
Anyway, looking for it in the Internet I found that during the Operation "Tidal Wave" (August 1st 1943) it was a target (Target Withe IV) alongside Astra Romana.
It seems that it received a 30% damage in that attack.

http://ww2guide.com/oil.shtml
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Tidal_Wave
http://www.lipper.cc/8th_AF/pages/PloestOperations.html

(in reply to AlterEgo)

Post #: 63

RE: [W.I.P] New Life for EDBTR :) - 7/13/2015 9:38:17 AM

TaggedYa

Posts: 218
Joined: 10/9/2005
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quote:

here is another odd issue I can address in the future if needed.
You can see in the red circles that some groups are running out of fuel during combat.
That's because the fuel consumption is not very well calculated in the game,imo.
It could be that an attack costs 6-18 fuel (fuel = flight time in minutes)
depends on a random value, iirc.
Either we change the fuel consumption routine, or planes with no fuel should do a crash landing.
What do you think? Or am I too fussy? This could also be the case.

Long ago the fuel routines were redone to reflect the high commands insistence on fuel reserves. When an aircraft is shown as out of fuel it really means it has fuel to get home plus 30 min plus 5 min at WEP. Not that the tanks are dry.

Also at one point planes were allowed to run out of fuel and it was found to be highly gameable. I.E. You could destroy all of the Allies aircraft by running them out of gas, so long ago it was changed to a Negative combat modifier instead of a crash.

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TaggedYa

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(in reply to AlterEgo)

Post #: 64

RE: [W.I.P] New Life for EDBTR :) - 7/13/2015 9:54:27 AM

TaggedYa

Posts: 218
Joined: 10/9/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AlterEgo

Yesterday I investigated the "OilOperations-Function" in EDBTR.
It is responsible for transferring FUEL and OIL to and from locations.
Looks like this function works pretty well.
I append a debug-message-routine so I could verify what's goin' on there.

For an example I focused my eyes on the "De Kooi Airfield".
Said as a rule of thumb, only locations with less than 50 damage can send FUEL or OIL to other locations.
And the further the distance the less OIL (or FUEL) can be supplied.
So, for airfields it looks like it is all ok!
Tuesday I will have a look at OILS, OILR and FUEL locations.

See ya, folks!

There are a couple of problems in the oil system.

The first in Oil_operations is that the target site is not checked. It will push to or pull from sites that are destroyed. Which means that destroyed sites are still part of the network.

The other is that bombing does little to fuel reserves. Destroyed sites don't loose their oil or fuel and continue to function.

A couple of tests were run hotseat where the Axis airforce was flown each day but didn't interfere with bombing in any way. The allies couldn't run the Axis out of gas even with no opposition.

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TaggedYa

The Vociferously Verbose

(in reply to AlterEgo)

Post #: 65

RE: [W.I.P] New Life for EDBTR :) - 7/13/2015 10:05:08 AM

TaggedYa

Posts: 218
Joined: 10/9/2005
Status: offline

quote:

Regarding "Unirea Orion", this location is not in the game or better said, it has a delay of 999 days.
I'm not the expert to tell you why this location has a delay...nor can I tell you, why this location
was shown on the map. I will investigate this issue in the future.

The 999 day delay is used in the industry move routine to identify sites that are available for destroyed factorys to move to. Unirea Orion will appear when a relocatable refinery is destroyed.

This has nothing to do with the bombing of the wrong location. I have never been able to find where the bug is but am reasonably sure it is in the mission targeting system.

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TaggedYa

The Vociferously Verbose

(in reply to AlterEgo)

Post #: 66

RE: [W.I.P] New Life for EDBTR :) - 7/13/2015 10:33:48 AM

npsergio

Posts: 185
Joined: 1/23/2010
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That means that the "problem" is with the bomber crew member that release the bombs over the wrong place?

Regrds

(in reply to TaggedYa)

Post #: 67

RE: [W.I.P] New Life for EDBTR :) - 7/13/2015 4:34:39 PM

AlterEgo

Posts: 83
Joined: 6/29/2015
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quote:

ORIGINAL npsergio
I don�t know why Unirea Orion have a 999 delay... maybe it was decided to eliminate it as a traget in Ploesti? I don�t know.
Anyway, looking for it in the Internet I found that during the Operation "Tidal Wave" (August 1st 1943) it was a target (Target Withe IV) alongside Astra Romana.
It seems that it received a 30% damage in that attack.

ok, if Unirea Orion was bombarded on August 1st, 1943 then the damage and a delay is understandable;
but a delay of 999 days? The manual describes an average repair rate of 1.0 points per day for OILR locations.
So 30 days or for my sake a 60 day delay would look appropriate to me.

Thanks for the info, Sergio!

(in reply to TaggedYa)

Post #: 68

RE: [W.I.P] New Life for EDBTR :) - 7/13/2015 4:51:02 PM

Wijter

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Joined: 10/10/2013
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For further details on the 999 delay issue see

AI attacking targets which i cant see on the map http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2339408

(in reply to AlterEgo)

Post #: 69

RE: [W.I.P] New Life for EDBTR :) - 7/13/2015 4:53:10 PM

AlterEgo

Posts: 83
Joined: 6/29/2015
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TaggedYa

quote:

Regarding "Unirea Orion", this location is not in the game or better said, it has a delay of 999 days.
I'm not the expert to tell you why this location has a delay...nor can I tell you, why this location
was shown on the map. I will investigate this issue in the future.

The 999 day delay is used in the industry move routine to identify sites that are available for destroyed factorys to move to. Unirea Orion will appear when a relocatable refinery is destroyed.

My understanding of the industry move routine is that sites with a delay of more than 9000 days (not 999) are used to
move destroyed factories to that location. So the 999 day delay value could have a different meaning in the game,
which I haven't found yet.

(in reply to TaggedYa)

Post #: 70

RE: [W.I.P] New Life for EDBTR :) - 7/13/2015 4:55:34 PM

AlterEgo

Posts: 83
Joined: 6/29/2015
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wijter

For further details on the 999 delay issue see

AI attacking targets which i cant see on the map http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2339408

Thanks for the link, Wijter!

(in reply to Wijter)

Post #: 71

RE: [W.I.P] New Life for EDBTR :) - 7/13/2015 5:03:24 PM

AlterEgo

Posts: 83
Joined: 6/29/2015
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quote:

ORIGINAL TaggedYa
There are a couple of problems in the oil system.

The first in Oil_operations is that the target site is not checked. It will push to or pull from sites that are destroyed. Which means that destroyed sites are still part of the network.

The other is that bombing does little to fuel reserves. Destroyed sites don't loose their oil or fuel and continue to function.

A couple of tests were run hotseat where the Axis airforce was flown each day but didn't interfere with bombing in any way. The allies couldn't run the Axis out of gas even with no opposition.

Very helpful infos for me! Thanks TaggedYa!
I think I should rewrite the whole Oil Operation routine.

(in reply to TaggedYa)

Post #: 72

RE: [W.I.P] New Life for EDBTR :) - 7/14/2015 6:56:07 AM

JeffroK

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Now you're talking!

I have problems in that the game wants to run what aircraft I use and where I base them. I thought I was running the air campaign!!

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Post #: 73

RE: [W.I.P] New Life for EDBTR :) - 7/14/2015 10:10:45 AM

npsergio

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There are two ways to change weapons/fuel to the german planes.
- one is every day, after the turn, revising the squadrons.
- the other is a bit gamey, because you can change the weapons/fuel from the Campaign status page, so you are able to instantly change weapons/fuel from the oob section of this page. That is, you're able to add, lets say, guns to the 109s just before scramble during the combat, without a delay. I suppose that to mount guns it's required some time to look for them in the armory, mount them, add ammo, etc

(in reply to JeffroK)

Post #: 74

RE: [W.I.P] New Life for EDBTR :) - 7/14/2015 2:35:20 PM

Wijter

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Joined: 10/10/2013
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Hello AlterEgo,

there is one more list with issues

The Minor Bug List http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2258616

I hope this will help you to track down open issues.

Cheers

(in reply to npsergio)

Post #: 75

RE: [W.I.P] New Life for EDBTR :) - 7/15/2015 10:28:45 PM

AlterEgo

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Joined: 6/29/2015
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Does anybody know whether the invasion of Normandy always happens at June, 6th, 44 in the game? Or is there a possibility that D-Day could be postponed?
(I'm testing my new Oil-Operations-function, but no invasion happens, it's now Juli 1944

)

edit: nvm, I missed the Invasion message and didn't noticed the allied airfields at Omaha beach... sorry!

< Message edited by AlterEgo -- 7/16/2015 12:00:02 AM >

(in reply to Wijter)

Post #: 76

RE: [W.I.P] New Life for EDBTR :) - 7/18/2015 4:06:37 PM

AlterEgo

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Joined: 6/29/2015
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I know, some of u are waiting for more infos from me.
I guess i found the issue with the "oil operations" problem now,
but I must do a lot of test games to have a confirmation that all went well..
Sadly I have no email contact to my other partner yet, who could help me to find all the bugs!
So, you have to wait a while until I can publish a working version.
Regards,
AlterEgo

(in reply to AlterEgo)

Post #: 77

RE: [W.I.P] New Life for EDBTR :) - 7/18/2015 5:46:15 PM

warshipbuilder

Posts: 1960
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From: C-eh-n-eh-d-eh
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AE, something else you could possibly add, weather forecasts. I am sure that even 75 years ago they probably had a good idea of what the next days weather was. As it stands now you only know on the day of. It would help everybody with their planning if they knew what the weather was going to be over the next couple of days.

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warshipbuilder

Any ship can be a minesweeper, once.
ED/BTR Ressurection Project
https://www.bombercommandmuseumarchives.ca/

(in reply to AlterEgo)

Post #: 78

RE: [W.I.P] New Life for EDBTR :) - 7/18/2015 6:02:52 PM

npsergio

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quote:

ORIGINAL: warshipbuilder

AE, something else you could possibly add, weather forecasts. I am sure that even 75 years ago they probably had a good idea of what the next days weather was. As it stands now you only know on the day of. It would help everybody with their planning if they knew what the weather was going to be over the next couple of days.

I agree. That could be a great improvement.

(in reply to warshipbuilder)

Post #: 79

RE: [W.I.P] New Life for EDBTR :) - 7/18/2015 8:46:52 PM

Mappo

Posts: 56
Joined: 6/1/2012
From: Florence, Italy
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Hi AlterEgo, first of all I would thank you for your effort to make better this game. Currently I am involved, as allied, in a 700 turns campaign against Cohimbra. We started it in march 2013 and now we are arrived at half may 1944. In my opinion the allied player is penalized in many modes.
In the next days I would like to list some of these issues and add a my own personal wish list.
Ciao

(in reply to npsergio)

Post #: 80

RE: [W.I.P] New Life for EDBTR :) - 7/20/2015 6:39:13 PM

AlterEgo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: warshipbuilder

AE, something else you could possibly add, weather forecasts. I am sure that even 75 years ago they probably had a good idea of what the next days weather was. As it stands now you only know on the day of. It would help everybody with their planning if they knew what the weather was going to be over the next couple of days.

Good idea! I'll see what's possible!

(in reply to warshipbuilder)

Post #: 81

RE: [W.I.P] New Life for EDBTR :) - 7/20/2015 6:49:10 PM

AlterEgo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mappo

Hi AlterEgo, first of all I would thank you for your effort to make better this game. Currently I am involved, as allied, in a 700 turns campaign against Cohimbra. We started it in march 2013 and now we are arrived at half may 1944. In my opinion the allied player is penalized in many modes.
In the next days I would like to list some of these issues and add a my own personal wish list.
Ciao

Hi Mappo!
Please post your list, but I can't promise to realize all wishes.
Depends on how much work it is for me.
Anyways, I look forward to the list!

(in reply to Mappo)

Post #: 82

RE: [W.I.P] New Life for EDBTR :) - 7/20/2015 10:35:28 PM

cohimbra

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It would be nice to see advices at the end of the turns; like I./JG1 upgrade to Fw 190, but referred to arrivals of a/c groups and new production sites.
Hey, I don't ask for it, just a suggestion. Thanks anyway.

< Message edited by cohimbra -- 7/20/2015 11:36:29 PM >

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RE: [W.I.P] New Life for EDBTR :) - 7/21/2015 11:49:37 AM

Turner

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Hi UnknownGuy! I'd be happy to contribute to your efforts!

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Trippin' with Jagdgeschwader 11

(in reply to cohimbra)

Post #: 84

RE: [W.I.P] New Life for EDBTR :) - 7/22/2015 9:06:02 AM

AlterEgo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cohimbra

It would be nice to see advices at the end of the turns; like I./JG1 upgrade to Fw 190, but referred to arrivals of a/c groups and new production sites.
Hey, I don't ask for it, just a suggestion. Thanks anyway.

That could be done, I guess. Thanks for the suggestion, Cohimbra!

(in reply to cohimbra)

Post #: 85

RE: [W.I.P] New Life for EDBTR :) - 7/22/2015 9:12:41 AM

AlterEgo

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Joined: 6/29/2015
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Turner

Hi UnknownGuy! I'd be happy to contribute to your efforts!

Many Thanks, Turner! I am currently working on the completion of the editor.
There's nothing to help, because my way of programming is so bad that I'm the only one who understand it!

But when it comes to the elimination of game errors and doing test runs, I'll get back to you, if
you agree!

(in reply to Turner)

Post #: 86

RE: [W.I.P] New Life for EDBTR :) - 7/30/2015 8:59:13 AM

Wijter

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Hello AlterEgo,

There is one more issue that caused discussions, this is high altitude bombing:
High-Altitude bombing way too effective http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2443653&mpage=1&key=
One observation is that the program is only able to deal with a flight level of 32.767 feet while the attack can be planned at 33.000+ feet. The Dev Team replied, that they have fixed the Problem, but my personal experience is different.

As far as I understand from the discussion, the calculation (hit/no hit) is done for every attacking plane, based on Crew experience/Norden bombsight and several other factors.
This calculation is different to the procedure used by USAAF and RAF. In a bombing run the leading machine did the aiming, and all machines in the group dropped their load on a signal from the leader. For me this does mean, the calculation has to run for the leader only (the one with the highest skill and Nordern Bombsight (for USAAF, not sure for BC)), and all other bombs will something somewhere Close to his aiming point.

Right now the only solution for this is to use the Editor and to change the parameters for accuracy and effect for the Bombs.

Can you please have a look at this.

Regards,
Wijter

(in reply to AlterEgo)

Post #: 87

RE: [W.I.P] New Life for EDBTR :) - 7/30/2015 11:08:35 AM

warshipbuilder

Posts: 1960
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BC was totally different, they were trying to hit an area eg. Hamburg. The USAAF were trying to hit a specific target eg. oil refinery.

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Post #: 88

RE: [W.I.P] New Life for EDBTR :) - 7/30/2015 5:09:46 PM

Augenstein

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AlterEgo, just to let you know, your work is much, much appreciated!

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RE: [W.I.P] New Life for EDBTR :) - 7/30/2015 5:14:22 PM

john_txic

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Status: offline

If you can do daylight bombing for Bomber Command (post June '44) that would be great. Bonus points for 3 Group with Gee-H?

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