Knife vs Spear

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Knife vs Spear - 7/30/2015 11:10:51 PM

scottb613

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Hi Folks,

RE: (4) F-5 Tiger II Vs (2) Mig-29

Been playing around with tactics on how an aircraft that lacks Amraams can take on aircraft that does have them... About the only feasible scenario I can come up with is for the aircraft with the short range missile must fly nap of the earth with their radars off (ideally - AEW/Airborne Intercept - is handled by another platform) - in hopes of avoiding detection long enough to pop up when they are close enough for a knife fight...

I tried to create a mission that attempts to emulate this behavior- attached...

The first issue I have is that the aircraft seem to ignore the settings in the mission for "Speed and Altitude Override"... No matter what altitudes I put in these boxes - the aircraft fly high even when not offensively engaged... Am I doing something wrong ???

Then while testing this tactic - it really seems to need one other setting to be able to employ it properly... I think we need the ability to define a range for aircraft to go "Offensively Engaged"... As it is now - as soon as the enemy is detected - off go the aircraft ignoring course, speed, and altitude settings - as they should - but not from 50 miles away if all you have is a 10 mile missile...

What I envision should happen is - the aircraft on an AAW Patrol stays low and quite as per the mission settings - until x miles away then it goes into "Offensively Engaged" providing an enemy is within the specified range - then pops up and attack the enemy - if it survives and eliminates the enemy it goes back to its low and quite AAW patrol awaiting a surprise attack on the next enemy that approaches withing the specified range...

Any discussion welcome...

Regards,
Scott

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RE: Knife vs Spear - 7/30/2015 11:32:21 PM

thewood1

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First thing I noticed is you didn't tell the mission to follow the altitude/speed override.

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RE: Knife vs Spear - 7/30/2015 11:41:51 PM

thewood1

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After I changed the mission to use the overrides, I also killed the plotted course you had set. This was keeping them from doing the mission. The F-5s flew to the patrol zone and when they entered they went offensive. I didn't see them start to climb until with 7 miles of the Mig-29s. A short range dogfight ended with each side losing two planes. That is a pretty good exchange for F-5s to Mig-29s.

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RE: Knife vs Spear - 7/30/2015 11:46:55 PM

scottb613

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Hi Wood,

"First thing I noticed is you didn't tell the mission to follow the altitude/speed override." - - - that may be what I'm missing - let me look again...

Regards,
Scott

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RE: Knife vs Spear - 7/31/2015 10:01:48 AM

Tomcat84

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quote:

ORIGINAL: scottb613
(4) F-5 Tiger II Vs (2) Mig-29

Been playing around with tactics on how an aircraft that lacks Amraams can take on aircraft that does have them...

Both these aircraft lack AMRAAMs

Also the behavior you want might be doable with a prosecution zone, but the placement of both your patrol area and your prosecution zone would depend greatly on knowing the route of the MiGs

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RE: Knife vs Spear - 7/31/2015 10:39:08 AM

thewood1

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I think most of what he was looking for was to make sure his AAW patrol didn't break the mission profile too soon. I think it works pretty close what he wants with the minor change.

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RE: Knife vs Spear - 7/31/2015 11:59:11 AM

Tomcat84

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Nevertheless I felt like trying my idea out and building a little Ambush CAP test scenario. Seems to work decently although they do climb a bit early maybe.

Have 2 x 2 F-5s hiding behind the ridge north and south. 2 MiG-29s cross the ridgein the center because that seems to be the weakest spot in the SAM belt. But that's what the ambushcap is for.

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RE: Knife vs Spear - 7/31/2015 1:12:17 PM

scottb613

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Hi Folks,

Hah - yep - I missed that first setting Wood - the overrides now work... Thanks...

LOL - no AMRAAMS - Tomcat - Ooops ? No wonder why they never shot them... I'll fix it - my expertise is at a slightly lower level... One thing I did notice is that it seems the MIG doesn't detect the F-5's until extremely close...

I'll take a look at your scenario tonight - I'm on my iPad at the moment..

Thanks guys...

Regards,
Scott

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RE: Knife vs Spear - 7/31/2015 1:28:02 PM

thewood1

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It doesn't detect the F-5s easily because they are low and silent until the last minute. I think that is the way you planned it.

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RE: Knife vs Spear - 7/31/2015 1:45:50 PM

scottb613

Posts: 186
Joined: 8/9/2014
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Hi Wood,

Sorry - I was vague - even when I couldn't get my aircraft to approach at low altitude - and the MIG radars were on - the MIG's seemed to ignore (would turn their backs to them) the approaching F5's until they were very close - I did have the option on for the MIG's to investigate contacts outside of their area...
:)

Regards,
Scott

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