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Combat engineers unit how to not loose it

 
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Combat engineers unit how to not loose it - 8/7/2015 7:48:10 AM   
MrKane


Posts: 790
Joined: 3/9/2013
From: West Poland
Status: offline 		It is still mystery to me how to use those units. In all my games in 90% cases when I have ordered them to join attack I loose those units in other 10% cases they reduced to 1 - 2 squads. So, as result usually I am not using those units a lot, most of time they are rebuilding far away from front line.
How you guys use them without being wipe out during attack.
Post #: 1
RE: Combat engineers unit how to not loose it - 8/7/2015 8:04:04 AM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline 		Don't shock attack with them.  They do their fortification dismantling just as efficiently with a deliberate attack.

Alfred

(in reply to MrKane)
Post #: 2
RE: Combat engineers unit how to not loose it - 8/7/2015 8:31:39 AM   
MrKane


Posts: 790
Joined: 3/9/2013
From: West Poland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

Don't shock attack with them.  They do their fortification dismantling just as efficiently with a deliberate attack.

Alfred


I am talking about deliberate attacks not shock attack.

(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 3
RE: Combat engineers unit how to not loose it - 8/7/2015 8:51:09 AM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline 		I don't have that problem with a deliberate attack.  Post a screenshot of such a unit showing its TOE and then after combat.  Their ID database number might be an issue.

Alfred

(in reply to MrKane)
Post #: 4
RE: Combat engineers unit how to not loose it - 8/7/2015 10:18:18 AM   
wdolson

 

Posts: 10398
Joined: 6/28/2006
From: Near Portland, OR
Status: offline 		The combat units in a stack are randomly sorted at the start of combat, so which one is on top is randomly selected. If it's an ID, that unit will take the brunt. If it's a smaller unit, it might get destroyed if the enemy force is large.

Bill

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WitP AE - Test team lead, programmer

(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 5
RE: Combat engineers unit how to not loose it - 8/7/2015 11:02:46 AM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline 		I have seen them take very heavy casualties at times getting the job done of reducing the fort, but have never seen one wiped out.

Getting 2:1 odds to reduce the fort is always preferable to having to rely on the engineers to do it at lower odds as the lower odds also pretty much guarantee heavier casualties.

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Hans


(in reply to wdolson)
Post #: 6
RE: Combat engineers unit how to not loose it - 8/7/2015 2:28:18 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson

The combat units in a stack are randomly sorted at the start of combat, so which one is on top is randomly selected. If it's an ID, that unit will take the brunt. If it's a smaller unit, it might get destroyed if the enemy force is large.

Bill


This is good to know. We've all seen that very often one LCU in a stack is crushed while others are barely mussed. Long ago it was forum lore that the ID number in the DB table was the determiner; a low number put the LCU at the top. Glad to know this isn't true.

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The Moose

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Post #: 7
RE: Combat engineers unit how to not loose it - 8/7/2015 2:59:37 PM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline 		I had this "problem" when attacking Chungking. I burned up several combat engineer units multiple times on nothing but deliberate attacks. I might be able to find a version of my Tracker DB where I can go back and look at formation history on the units...

In particular, the engineer units that are mostly regular engineers, but also come with non-TOE combat engineers at the start of the game - I lost almost all of those. More than anything, the status of my engineers was the determining factor behind when I attacked, not the status of my other combat units. If my engineers weren't overwhelmingly healthy, no attack.

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)
Post #: 8
RE: Combat engineers unit how to not loose it - 8/7/2015 6:01:38 PM   
wdolson

 

Posts: 10398
Joined: 6/28/2006
From: Near Portland, OR
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quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson

The combat units in a stack are randomly sorted at the start of combat, so which one is on top is randomly selected. If it's an ID, that unit will take the brunt. If it's a smaller unit, it might get destroyed if the enemy force is large.

Bill


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
This is good to know. We've all seen that very often one LCU in a stack is crushed while others are barely mussed. Long ago it was forum lore that the ID number in the DB table was the determiner; a low number put the LCU at the top. Glad to know this isn't true.


Unless Michael has changed it, the units were sorted by ID in the original game, but I added code to do a random sort with all combat units on top with non-combat units on the bottom. In a big fight, the unit on top takes the brunt.

Bill

_____________________________

WitP AE - Test team lead, programmer

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)
Post #: 9
RE: Combat engineers unit how to not loose it - 8/7/2015 8:18:00 PM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson

quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson

The combat units in a stack are randomly sorted at the start of combat, so which one is on top is randomly selected. If it's an ID, that unit will take the brunt. If it's a smaller unit, it might get destroyed if the enemy force is large.

Bill


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
This is good to know. We've all seen that very often one LCU in a stack is crushed while others are barely mussed. Long ago it was forum lore that the ID number in the DB table was the determiner; a low number put the LCU at the top. Glad to know this isn't true.


Unless Michael has changed it, the units were sorted by ID in the original game, but I added code to do a random sort with all combat units on top with non-combat units on the bottom. In a big fight, the unit on top takes the brunt.

Bill


...I wonder if this is part of what is causing the "Super HQ" behavior that we see so often long after a base has actually capitulated.

(in reply to wdolson)
Post #: 10
RE: Combat engineers unit how to not loose it - 8/7/2015 8:39:14 PM   
MrKane


Posts: 790
Joined: 3/9/2013
From: West Poland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson

quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson

The combat units in a stack are randomly sorted at the start of combat, so which one is on top is randomly selected. If it's an ID, that unit will take the brunt. If it's a smaller unit, it might get destroyed if the enemy force is large.

Bill


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
This is good to know. We've all seen that very often one LCU in a stack is crushed while others are barely mussed. Long ago it was forum lore that the ID number in the DB table was the determiner; a low number put the LCU at the top. Glad to know this isn't true.


Unless Michael has changed it, the units were sorted by ID in the original game, but I added code to do a random sort with all combat units on top with non-combat units on the bottom. In a big fight, the unit on top takes the brunt.

Bill


Thanks for explanation. So I am not using them wrongly. My problem comes from game algorithm itself.
Do I understand correctly that bigger battle is than bigger chance that battalion/company size unit, will be lost due to bad lack and landing on the top of combat units list ?

(in reply to wdolson)
Post #: 11
RE: Combat engineers unit how to not loose it - 8/7/2015 10:20:11 PM   
DanSez


Posts: 1023
Joined: 2/5/2012
Status: offline 		Interesting.

Could it also be a function of how many Engineer units in the mix?

As in a heavy siege. with 3 combat engineers, the chances of one continuing to take a heavy toll is less than if you have just one combat engineer unit who will take all the 'engineer squad disable/kills' each DA.

In my PBEM (Scenario 2) game, I was continually wearing out one engineer unit until I got a chance to move another into the attack and then it seemed both units spread out the 'engineer squad disable/kills' a little. I didn't think to document this as the game evolved but that was how I perceived the problem/solution. It may also have been a function of TOE difference of the two units as Alfred suggested. I had not considered that.


< Message edited by DanSez -- 8/7/2015 11:21:55 PM >

(in reply to MrKane)
Post #: 12
RE: Combat engineers unit how to not loose it - 8/8/2015 1:13:23 AM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DanSez

Interesting.

Could it also be a function of how many Engineer units in the mix?

As in a heavy siege. with 3 combat engineers, the chances of one continuing to take a heavy toll is less than if you have just one combat engineer unit who will take all the 'engineer squad disable/kills' each DA.

In my PBEM (Scenario 2) game, I was continually wearing out one engineer unit until I got a chance to move another into the attack and then it seemed both units spread out the 'engineer squad disable/kills' a little. I didn't think to document this as the game evolved but that was how I perceived the problem/solution. It may also have been a function of TOE difference of the two units as Alfred suggested. I had not considered that.



Against high levels of forts, my engineers took a LOT of casualties.

(in reply to DanSez)
Post #: 13
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