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Japanese Barges - 11/24/2011 6:12:58 AM   
Knyvet


Posts: 138
Joined: 10/10/2009
Status: offline 		I've been thinking about how best to use my Jap barges and came across the following Jan. 27, 1944 US intel report on "Japanese Use of Military Barges".

http://www.lonesentry.com/articles/ttt09/barges.html

Interesting details.








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RE: Japanese Barges - 11/24/2011 3:31:45 PM   
crsutton


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Status: offline 		I found that very interesting. Thanks for posting it.

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RE: Japanese Barges - 11/24/2011 6:48:18 PM   
Mac Linehan

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

I found that very interesting. Thanks for posting it.


+2!

Thank You Knyvet

Mac

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RE: Japanese Barges - 11/28/2011 12:31:40 PM   
LargeSlowTarget


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Status: offline 		6000 barges in operation? 300-mile trips? Looks like the range and number of Japanese barges in the game need a boost...

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RE: Japanese Barges - 11/29/2011 3:51:08 PM   
Yaab


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Status: offline 		How many barges  do Japan get in the WITP:AE?

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RE: Japanese Barges - 11/29/2011 3:59:45 PM   
USS Henrico

 

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Status: offline 		In using the Japanese Barges, just remember they do not play well with PT-Boats or P-39/B-25 strafers.

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Post #: 6
RE: Japanese Barges - 11/29/2011 4:22:48 PM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yaab

How many barges  do Japan get in the WITP:AE?

A bunch. Depends on where you are in your game, but a bunch.

USS Henrico is right-the PTs do a fine job of breaking up your barge flotillas, so bear that in mind where you station them.

ETA: In reviewing that technical data (thanks for posting), the Devs got the capacity (11 tons) and speed (8 knots) exactly right for the large Daihatsu barges.

Like LST says above: I wonder why the range is so truncated in the game though?

< Message edited by Chickenboy -- 11/29/2011 4:29:46 PM >

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RE: Japanese Barges - 11/29/2011 5:25:06 PM   
Don Bowen


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I believe the game has the endurance correct as well. If you read the linked document carefully, it does not say barges had 300 mile range..

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RE: Japanese Barges - 11/29/2011 5:27:06 PM   
PaxMondo


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Status: offline 		Also, in terms of numbers, don't forget that a lot of barges are abstracted to allow for neighboring ports to auto move supply/resources.

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RE: Japanese Barges - 11/29/2011 5:28:05 PM   
Chickenboy


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Status: offline 		You are correct, the reference discusses (in several places) 300 mile trips over several days duration. Don-where can we find out more information about the range (unrefueled) of these barges?

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RE: Japanese Barges - 11/29/2011 6:38:06 PM   
JWE

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy
You are correct, the reference discusses (in several places) 300 mile trips over several days duration. Don-where can we find out more information about the range (unrefueled) of these barges?

The reference discusses 300 mile trips with fuel staging points along the way and several tons of extra fuel on board the barge itself. The barge fuel capacity is correct. To do 300 mile trips, either do fuel depots along the way (as Japan did) or bring along a PB or something to gas them up (as an abstraction).

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RE: Japanese Barges - 11/29/2011 7:08:19 PM   
Mynok


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PB method works well for me. Depots are difficult to setup, especially in areas like the Solomons and northern NG due to very small or non-existent port sizes. A barge fleet will suck a LOT of fuel.

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RE: Japanese Barges - 11/29/2011 7:18:54 PM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mynok


PB method works well for me. Depots are difficult to setup, especially in areas like the Solomons and northern NG due to very small or non-existent port sizes. A barge fleet will suck a LOT of fuel.

Yes, this (the PB method) works for me as well as an abstraction.

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RE: Japanese Barges - 11/29/2011 9:21:39 PM   
LargeSlowTarget


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Status: offline 		I retract the 300-miles statement. The 17m and 14m Daihatsus had a range of 100 nautical miles at 7.5 knots, the 10m Shohatsu of 60 nautical miles at 7.5 knots.

Problem is that barges used diesel or gasoline engines and not fuel oil. They should use supplies for propulsion, like plane engines do in the game. Same for PTs. Ok, won't happen, but would make it much easier to setup fuel staging points.


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RE: Japanese Barges - 11/29/2011 9:26:58 PM   
Mynok


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Status: offline 		Yes it would. Much easier. I suspect that would be quite difficult with the engine however.

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Post #: 15
RE: Japanese Barges - 8/30/2015 7:06:59 AM   
Yaab


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Status: offline 		Somewhat off topic, but why can't the Japanese barges be set up in the CS mode?

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RE: Japanese Barges - 8/30/2015 10:52:37 AM   
Yaab


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Status: offline 		And another question.

On two separate occasions, I loaded an 11-barge TF in Kwajalein with supplies for a trip to Namu, a base next to Kwajalein. Every time two barges loaded four points of fuel each instead of supplies. Is this WAD?

[image]
adult image[/image]

< Message edited by Yaab -- 8/30/2015 11:54:09 AM >

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Post #: 17
RE: Japanese Barges - 8/30/2015 3:03:08 PM   
m10bob


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Status: offline 		Ian Allens' JAPANESE NAVY OF WWII, many Daihatsu were converted by putting armored sides on them and loading them with anti-aircraft guns, (mostly revenge types)..

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RE: Japanese Barges - 9/1/2015 3:37:36 AM   
Chijohnaok2


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yaab

And another question.

On two separate occasions, I loaded an 11-barge TF in Kwajalein with supplies for a trip to Namu, a base next to Kwajalein. Every time two barges loaded four points of fuel each instead of supplies. Is this WAD?

[image]
adult image[/image]


I could be wrong but I was under the impression that when some barges load fuel instead of supplies this is because that amount of fuel is necessary for the convoy to be able to make the round trip (had they not loaded the fuel the convoy would run out of fuel on the return trip).

I could be wrong though.

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Post #: 19
RE: Japanese Barges - 9/1/2015 4:05:26 AM   
Yaab


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Status: offline 		The barges travelled from Kwajalein to Namu and back.

The whole journey was 2 hexes.

The TF showed their Fuel 2/2 in green.

When a journey takes three hexes, the Fuel is displayed as 3/3 in red, even though the barge range is actually three hexes.

Why would they take fuel if they have enough fuel for their return leg? Also, there were no ships at Namu wanting fuel.

My guess is a big (10-12?) barge TF just loads some barges with fuel by default.

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Post #: 20
RE: Japanese Barges - 9/4/2015 5:33:42 AM   
Yaab


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Status: offline 		One more question.

If barge supply capacity is 8, and the barge can fit another three supply points in troop space, thus arriving at 11 supply point capacity, does that mean that the barge can move devices whose load cost is 11 points? At 8 points, the barge can carry a Japanese tankette, at 11 points the barge could move a Japanese medium tank.

Thanks.

< Message edited by Yaab -- 9/4/2015 6:34:53 AM >

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Post #: 21
RE: Japanese Barges - 9/4/2015 8:49:41 AM   
Reg


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One of the very early decisions by the designers was to have one barge in ten (IIRC) in a TF be loaded with fuel otherwise there would be would be 'out of fuel' barge TFs all over the map. It's an arbitrary figure with no calculations involved.

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RE: Japanese Barges - 9/4/2015 8:57:08 AM   
Yaab


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Status: offline 		Great info, thanks!

So you get a little bit tactical flexibility if you use a ten-barge TF.

< Message edited by Yaab -- 9/4/2015 9:58:05 AM >

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Post #: 23
RE: Japanese Barges - 9/4/2015 9:08:56 AM   
Reg


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You would have to experiment. I haven't looked that closely.


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Post #: 24
RE: Japanese Barges - 9/5/2015 7:49:12 AM   
Yaab


Posts: 4552
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Status: offline 		Nine-barge TF loads 4 fuel points.

The thing is, since this fuel is loaded as cargo, the TF does not use it - it unloads the fuel at Namu. I was wondering why some fuel has accumulated at Namu, since it is a port 0 base, and the code cannot move fuel automatically between Kwajalein and Namu. Now it seems the barges drop the fuel there.


upload photos

< Message edited by Yaab -- 9/5/2015 8:55:18 AM >

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RE: Japanese Barges - 9/5/2015 12:21:37 PM   
patrickl


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Status: offline 		Thanks TS, now we can visualize a jap barge.

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RE: Japanese Barges - 9/19/2015 9:48:13 AM   
Alfred

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yaab

One more question.

If barge supply capacity is 8, and the barge can fit another three supply points in troop space, thus arriving at 11 supply point capacity, does that mean that the barge can move devices whose load cost is 11 points? At 8 points, the barge can carry a Japanese tankette, at 11 points the barge could move a Japanese medium tank.

Thanks.


No.

Alfred

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Post #: 27
RE: Japanese Barges - 9/19/2015 12:31:43 PM   
Yaab


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Status: offline 		Thanks, Alfred.

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Post #: 28
RE: Japanese Barges - 11/4/2015 2:11:59 PM   
dave sindel

 

Posts: 488
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Status: offline 		Good morning everyone, I'd like to resurrect this thread if I may.

I'm in the midst of my first PBEM game. Stock Guadalcanal as the Japanese. I'm really struggling with how to keep fuel in my barges. I've read and re-read this thread and am still not sure on the proper procedure. In post # 11, JWE stated "...or bring along a PB or something to gas them up...". I tried putting an xAKL and barges in the same TF, and it didnt work when I tried to "refuel at sea". I tried having an AO replenishment TF meet a barge TF for refueling. They met, but no refueling occurred. I now have a bunch of barges at Shortlands and another bunch at Rabaul with significant SYS damage from moving while out of fuel. What am I doing wrong ?

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RE: Japanese Barges - 11/4/2015 5:28:29 PM   
LargeSlowTarget


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Status: offline 		If you can operate an AO in the area, you don't need barges. Barges are best used in areas where the enemy has air superiority and operating larger ships would be suicidal. Refueling barges from an embedded small PB or AMc works fine for me. You are playing stock, so just for info - the DBB mod also has some YO type fuel barges that are quite useful for setting-up staging points for refueling.

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