RE: Pelton (GHC) vs KWG (WA) turn 26 Bug hold.

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the West >> After Action Reports >> RE: Pelton (GHC) vs KWG (WA) turn 26 Bug hold.

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RE: Pelton (GHC) vs KWG (WA) turn 26 Bug hold. - 11/16/2015 6:45:51 PM

Seminole

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quote:

I would say not say fruitless as Ive attacked over the winter to make the Germans use ammo.

Sarcasm, right...?
Every 1k US or .6k CW troops lost are handing him a point. You're also bolstering his force's morale. That's a multiplier that isn't immediately buffed like ammo. By the first winter the Axis is swimming in supplies. Every depot even marked as a 1 from the beginning of the game are over 95%. I'd only worry about burning off ammo when making multiple attacks in a turn. Even then there is an 'in phase' resupply that happens between single turn attacks to replenish ammo.

quote:

I have task forces there and have used them in the attacks. FOW shows nothing even off of Anzio.

Some things I noticed in the battle report:

quote:

Outnumbered, 3-1 infantry and 8-1 afv, German forces hold the line.

Another way to look at it is, without supporting artillery, or even attached engineer units, Patton ordered his infantry and tanks to assault the German entrenchments, weeks in the building, without even a single allied plane flying Close Air Support.

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RE: Pelton (GHC) vs KWG (WA) turn 26 Bug hold. - 11/16/2015 8:52:46 PM

KWG

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No sacrasm , some of my attacks have been to keep the germans from stockpiling, in certain units, as my intel shows them to be low on ammo most of the recent time. VPs are at a +tie.

"...Axis is swimming in supplies.."
Yes, but can they be gotten to every place on the map. Iam seeing a lack of ammo in "certain" sectors. Unlimited ammo in Rome does not help unless it reaches all the units on the line. Get what Iam saying. Dont want to show all cards.

The no air support for that battle was a decision to max aircraft in other duties.

Task force. This battle was 2 hexes inland. I thought 1 hex was the limit and in that range Ive been using them. Recently did a search of manual for range and could not find it.
No arty, I see 1404 guns. Things are missing from the pic as it shows nothing off of Anzio wich has not been the case since last of OCT. Divisions have been maxed in the support dept. Why not showing I know not.

I now know, when you look at battle -ground combat- details the slider disappears.

It does look like a disaster.

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< Message edited by KWG -- 11/16/2015 11:33:26 PM >

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RE: Pelton (GHC) vs KWG (WA) turn 26 Bug hold. - 11/16/2015 10:30:52 PM

KWG

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I believe I have found a solution to the bug and will continue this campaign.

edit
Since I have played this far with it and now know my interdiction woes were not due to me, I shall continue.
I have found some ways to minimize the 1 day effect.

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< Message edited by KWG -- 11/17/2015 3:51:15 PM >

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RE: Pelton (GHC) vs KWG (WA) turn 26 Bug hold. - 11/17/2015 12:10:38 AM

Seminole

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quote:

No sacrasm , some of my attacks have been to keep the germans from stockpiling, in certain units, as my intel shows them to be low on ammo most of the recent time. VPs are at a +tie.
"...Axis is swimming in supplies.."
Yes, but can they be gotten to every place on the map. Iam seeing a lack of ammo in "certain" sectors. Unlimited ammo in Rome does not help unless it reaches all the units on the line. Get what Iam saying. Dont want to show all cards.

Between rotating units on the line and rule 20.5.3. (Resupply during Combat) I'm not sure I see the relative advantage it will give you even as a means of degrading his response forces because it will raise and maintain his morale above the falling national level, and that is a lot more sticky than ammo, which can be replenished by pulling a unit off the line for a week (ammo is converted from general supplies delivered, the system doesn't track distinct stockpiles). Always interested in seeing how strategies I hadn't thought of will play out.

quote:

Task force. This battle was 2 hexes inland. I thought 1 hex was the limit and in that range Ive been using them. Recently did a search of manual for range and could not find it.

You're correct, I'm conflating that beachhead with the southern line. TF only hit the coastal hexes.

quote:

No arty, I see 1404 guns. Things are missing from the pic as it shows nothing off of Anzio wich has not been the case since last of OCT. Divisions have been maxed in the support dept. Why not showing I know not.
I now know, when you look at battle details the slider disappears.
It does look like a disaster.

I see what you mean, never noticed it disappearing and was afraid you had missed a chance to tip the scales with SUs. The Allies have bonus chances and allotments for artillery reserve allocation. Not seeing any artillery SUs I assumed the tubes displayed was organic to the divisions involved in the attacks (there were quite a few!). Strange that no engineering value at all was reflected. Did you not have your engineers embedded at the time of the screenshot? Or did they somehow just not show up (fail rolls? Can that happen?).
I've played the game to this point largely not paying much attention to SUs. Seeing so many near miss battles lately I know I need to focus more here, that's why I'm trying to confirm what I'm seeing in this AAR.

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RE: Pelton (GHC) vs KWG (WA) turn 23 - 11/17/2015 3:37:54 AM

Seminole

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quote:

I simply use the WitE work around, air drops.
Bomb the rail lines all you want.

I know they worked on this, but it still seems broken.
I just did an air drop, single mission, with two (2) Me 323s to a hex with an airfield (recently seized beachhead) and thereby pushed ~10 divisions (most arm/mech) to 100%+ in all supply categories in that hex and the surrounding hexes.

It's why I'm dubious about the efficacy of KWG's Verdun strategy of draining your ammo with his young men...

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RE: Pelton (GHC) vs KWG (WA) turn 23 - 11/17/2015 7:29:54 AM

LiquidSky

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It is a good habit to make sure that the units adjacent to any hex that the anybody will be flying air transports to is covered with AA. I've used the RR AA that the Germans get for this, and as the allies, you have a ton of AA and admin to just dump them in.

If the transports fly over units to get to the airfield, they will be subject to flak. And you cannot make a path for them. And any damaged transports probably don't deliver their cargo, and if they lose enough morale, they wont fly on multiple missions.

Of course you need a town or unit adjacent to the airfield he wants to fly into, but then, the reason he is flying is because they are units in the front lines anyways.

Something to keep in mind.

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RE: Pelton (GHC) vs KWG (WA) turn 23 - 11/17/2015 2:48:14 PM

KWG

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Seminole

Please comment all you want, for I may fail to see what is obvious to others. Is was your post of how Task Forces can be moved to a battle then back to a port or temp port that enlighten me to their power.

Some my posts may appear rude or "being short" however Iam merely typing the least I can to state a point. LOL

I did 2 backflips when i saw your post of my battle and the slider showing no support units. I would not put it past me to have made such an attack. Slow and thinkful is better than fast and assuming when moving and attacking.

"Between rotating units on the line and rule 20.5.3. (Resupply during Combat) I'm not sure I see the relative advantage it will give you even as a means of degrading his response forces because it will raise and maintain his morale above the falling national level, and that is a lot more sticky than ammo, which can be replenished by pulling a unit off the line for a week (ammo is converted from general supplies delivered, the system doesn't track distinct stockpiles). Always interested in seeing how strategies I hadn't thought of will play out."

Ive felt that attacks over the winter were necessary. There is no other way to harass the enemy on the ground. To keep certain units low on ammo and to keep entrenchments low. That is why the Allies must make the most of the strategic bombing - to offset ground losses.

"Strange that no engineering value at all was reflected. Did you not have your engineers embedded at the time of the screenshot? Or did they somehow just not show up (fail rolls? Can that happen?). "

Not sure why they are not showing, they were there.

There is no other way to collapse the german resistance but to pound. Now that I know my interdiction woes are not my doing I can stop doubling down on that aspect.

Not to bomb the rails/yards would be a sin.

< Message edited by KWG -- 11/17/2015 3:57:28 PM >

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RE: Pelton (GHC) vs KWG (WA) turn 23 - 11/17/2015 3:04:36 PM

KWG

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LiquidSky

It is a good habit to make sure that the units adjacent to any hex that the anybody will be flying air transports to is covered with AA. I've used the RR AA that the Germans get for this, and as the allies, you have a ton of AA and admin to just dump them in.

If the transports fly over units to get to the airfield, they will be subject to flak. And you cannot make a path for them. And any damaged transports probably don't deliver their cargo, and if they lose enough morale, they wont fly on multiple missions.

Of course you need a town or unit adjacent to the airfield he wants to fly into, but then, the reason he is flying is because they are units in the front lines anyways.

Something to keep in mind.

Ive been flying patrols over enemy areas that I want to keep low on supply.

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RE: Pelton (GHC) vs KWG (WA) turn 23 - 11/20/2015 4:39:12 PM

KWG

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May 1944

The Battle of the Ruhr continues as anticipation of a invasion of Europe builds.

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RE: Pelton (GHC) vs KWG (WA) turn 23 - 11/20/2015 4:48:43 PM

KWG

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June 2, 1944
1830hrs
BBC radio broadcast:

"Blessent mon c�ur d'une langueur monotone"
("wound my heart with a monotonous languor")

< Message edited by KWG -- 11/20/2015 10:02:58 PM >

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RE: Pelton (GHC) vs KWG (WA) turn 23 - 11/20/2015 9:06:10 PM

KWG

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June 3, 1944
0015hrs

In the skys above France a staccato of devilish winds crescendo. And as the devils fade into the quietness of the night, the wind softly carries the faint sounds of GERONIMO!!!

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RE: Pelton (GHC) vs KWG (WA) turn 23 - 11/20/2015 9:11:00 PM

KWG

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I did the traditional... maybe.

Despite the bad weather Allied air crews fly en masse.

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< Message edited by KWG -- 11/20/2015 11:06:09 PM >

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RE: Pelton (GHC) vs KWG (WA) turn 23 - 11/20/2015 9:48:01 PM

KWG

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Italy

Allies suffer heavy losses but gains are made.

General Montgomery proclaims "Now is the summer of Germany's discontent."

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RE: Pelton (GHC) vs KWG (WA) turn 23 - 11/21/2015 2:04:06 PM

KWG

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Italy June 1944

Monty opens up a can of "German Removal".

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< Message edited by KWG -- 11/21/2015 3:05:13 PM >

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RE: Pelton (GHC) vs KWG (WA) turn 23 - 11/21/2015 2:23:44 PM

KWG

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My solution to the interdiction bug is OK I guess. Not my best but it will have to do.
At least Iam no longer making the problem worse.

*Big Hint Below*

Really pay attention to what Helpless says in his posts. Going over of many things he has posted, not just on my one problem, has helped
in all aspects of Air-Ground warfare. Its in the nuances.

That and I play his posts backwards for hidden messages.

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< Message edited by KWG -- 11/21/2015 4:06:45 PM >

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RE: Pelton (GHC) vs KWG (WA) turn 23 - 11/21/2015 4:10:39 PM

KWG

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8th Army attacks and advances and does it again!!!

Not one to call it a week Monty and his 8th Army doubles down on the drive to Cassino.

API Film Footage:
As General Montgomery drives along roads to the front, everywhere he is greeted by seas of shouts and waves from New Zealanders, Canadians, Americans and yes even a Brit or two.

General Eisenhower's implementation of a "Common Force", at first scoffed at, is now applauded.

8th Army HQ released a statement today that General Patton has been sent a prosciutto ham - "Courtesy of Monty and 8th Army".

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< Message edited by KWG -- 11/22/2015 2:05:13 AM >

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RE: Pelton (GHC) vs KWG (WA) turn 23 - 11/21/2015 5:58:31 PM

Harrybanana

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quote:

ORIGINAL: KWG

My solution to the interdiction bug is OK I guess. Not my best but it will have to do.
At least Iam no longer making the problem worse.

What is this "interdiction bug" of which you speak. I thought I followed the Forum fairly closely, but I obviously missed this one.

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RE: Pelton (GHC) vs KWG (WA) turn 23 - 11/21/2015 7:27:53 PM

KWG

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Harrybanana

quote:

ORIGINAL: KWG

My solution to the interdiction bug is OK I guess. Not my best but it will have to do.
At least Iam no longer making the problem worse.

What is this "interdiction bug" of which you speak. I thought I followed the Forum fairly closely, but I obviously missed this one.

This one:
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3966469

If you fly too small of radius for interdiction and if its on a enemy that is touching your troops the planes will only fly for one day.
I use to fly many small overlapping interdictions and I thought the problem was me so I did it more and had even more planes not flying.
Too small of radius I found to be 1 or less.
And I think too many interdiction ADs in same AF can result in some flying only 1 day.

Taking Helpless' advice on interdiction AND unit bombing I found some good tactics by playing Breakout from Normandy as I worked on my truck last weekend.
Luckily i caught it before European invasion although it has caused some suffering due to my previous tactics.

< Message edited by KWG -- 11/22/2015 2:35:17 AM >

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RE: Pelton (GHC) vs KWG (WA) turn 23 - 11/21/2015 9:04:32 PM

loki100

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can you not offset it by setting the number of daily missions to a high number?

but it does explain why I've sometimes been disappointed in the results if I target a single hex

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RE: Pelton (GHC) vs KWG (WA) turn 23 - 11/22/2015 1:02:08 AM

KWG

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quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100

can you not offset it by setting the number of daily missions to a high number?

but it does explain why I've sometimes been disappointed in the results if I target a single hex

I tried all intensity settings even custom and u would get that intensity but only for a day.
In my experimentation I only worried about flying when ordered, not the interdiction level.
It seemed to me to involve radius and frontlines. So far so good, they will fly when ordered.

< Message edited by KWG -- 11/22/2015 2:34:44 AM >

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RE: Pelton (GHC) vs KWG (WA) turn 23 - 11/22/2015 1:05:50 AM

KWG

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ALLIES INVADE NORMANDY!

The Longest Week

5 Beachheads - 4 east of swamp hex, 1 north west swamp hex.

1 Airborne in swamp hex. More toward Cherboug.

Recons were showing the left flank of beacheads, Bayeux-Caen area, to be too strong of a area for a Airborne drop. So the right flank, toward Cherboug, was chosen.

All forces hit empty beaches and no opposition was encountered until moving inland.

VII corps, lead by Patton assaults inland. Germans are pushed back. We could have moved some forces into the area but not enough to ensure a complete hold, so Patton settles for Zone of Control.

Lots of good air battles. Luftwaffe is still formidable, but taking big losses. Forgot to take pics.

!!! Allied Infantry divisions can be made to field as many AFVs as a German Panzer Division !!!

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< Message edited by KWG -- 11/22/2015 2:44:33 AM >

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RE: Pelton (GHC) vs KWG (WA) turn 23 - 11/22/2015 4:33:22 PM

KWG

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The State of German forces in Normandy.

I have just done my Air Phase, waiting to do the Ground.
Germans have reoccupied ground they were thrown out of last turn.

Supplies and especially ammo looking low. Fuel so-so.

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RE: Pelton (GHC) vs KWG (WA) turn 26 Bug hold. - 11/22/2015 4:51:40 PM

KWG

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

quote:

ORIGINAL: KWG

Where to invade.

Amsterdam - Flanders
The plodder terrain has the same good and bad as does the hedgerows of Normandy.
Best location for a drive on Germany.

Pas de Calais
Lots of ports, open terrain. lots of open terrain at border with Picardy.
Close to shortest drive on Germany.

Picardy
Lots of open terrain, small towns with ports, one big port at Le Harve.

Normandy
Hedgerows both good and bad. Few ports.

Brittany/Poitou
Lots of open terrain for mobile warfare. Hunting fields for Allied aircraft.
Farthest from Germany but this is the same for Germans.

With all regions having positive and negative, it almost begs for a double invasion - together or weeks apart. Or a maximum effort at one point.

One thing to keep in mind, if you invade initially in only one zone, he will be required to still garrison all the other zones. I would try to keep an invasion entirely within one zone initially for this reason; it will effectively pin something like 200-250 AV, which is alot, especially on top of the garrison in N. Italy

You also have a decision to make on that Anzio beachhead. You probably have to maintain an AMPHIB there, or evacuate it. Tough call. It's tying down German troops, and he will keep units there to prevent a breakout. I would probably leave it for now, and roll with 7 amphibs in France, just my opinion.

As far as the regions, Pas de Calais is unfortunately broken up by ports, so that is not a good spot IMO. Holland is a good place to land secondarily, but it's too easy to get pinned to the polders. I favor Brittany or Picardy, but that's just me....Normandy a possibility, though bocage is a problem. At least in Normandy, Cherbourg should be an easy grab.

Ive waited to reply for intel reasons and will say a little, because my invasions may not be over.
Garrisons are key in deciding where to invade. Thats why Italy looks so good because it has no garrison for awhile and it forces Germans to keep troops in other places.

Id though about landing in Italy in '43 get my 10 hexs, dig in. Then do the same in France, then VP bomb a victory.
I could even do that now and get a tie and maybe a slim victory.
Both of those ideas are too.....Tacky.

Without Anzio we would not have had "The Wall".

Ports... a curse and a blessing.

< Message edited by KWG -- 11/22/2015 6:07:46 PM >

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RE: Pelton (GHC) vs KWG (WA) turn 50 - 11/22/2015 8:36:41 PM

Peltonx

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Turn 49 VP: 69 Manpower Pool: 29,000
WA Loses: 256,000
GHC Loses: 268,000

Turn 51

WA Loses 273,350
GHC Loses 326,564

WA loses over 3 turns; 17,000
GHC loses over 3 turns: 58,000

DoH

ratio: 1 to 3.4

I mean really how hard is that to figure out my 5 yr old can do that math.

I am looking at data not sure what fairytale your looking at, but my 5 yr old would really like to
know what story that is cause he like to read it.

He picked the smiley because hes not sure why you cant do the math being at least 30+ yrs older them him

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< Message edited by Pelton -- 12/6/2015 1:20:43 AM >

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RE: Pelton (GHC) vs KWG (WA) turn 50 - 11/22/2015 8:39:34 PM

Peltonx

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On the Italian Front a few hexes are lost and 3 divisions are being railed to the front and several Panzer Divisions have been moved back to the border between France and Italy
to be held in reserve waiting for the standard 2nd invasion in the Med.

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RE: Pelton (GHC) vs KWG (WA) turn 50 - 11/22/2015 8:44:10 PM

Peltonx

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Turn 50 VP: 38 Manpower Pool: 38,000
WA Loses: 263,000 7,000
GHC Loses: 289,000 21,000

Combat Ratio: 1 to 3 Historically it was almost 1 to 1 during 1944 minus surrenders.

Both sides lost slightly over 200,000 men each during the Normandy fighting, again this does not include surrenders. I am not sure on Italian Front loses, but I guess they be about the same.

no pictures for me this turn.

A sample of combat engine, but a turn after the invasion Germany loses 3x as many troops as WA's?

and I thought WitE combat engine was off.

Need more data to be sure, ten turns should give a solid ratio.

http://www.britannica.com/event/Normandy-Invasion/images-videos/The-exact-number-of-casualties-suffered-in-the-invasion-of/40555

< Message edited by Pelton -- 11/22/2015 10:03:17 PM >

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RE: Pelton (GHC) vs KWG (WA) turn 50 - 11/22/2015 9:21:24 PM

KWG

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In Italy Monty's Legions attack. HAIL MONTY! HAIL MONTY'S LEGIONS!

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< Message edited by KWG -- 11/22/2015 10:38:16 PM >

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RE: Pelton (GHC) vs KWG (WA) turn 50 - 11/22/2015 9:25:44 PM

KWG

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pelton

Turn 50 VP: 38 Manpower Pool: 38,000
WA Loses: 263,000 7,000
GHC Loses: 289,000 21,000

Combat Ratio: 1 to 3 Historically it was almost 1 to 1 during 1944 minus surrenders.

Both sides lost slightly over 200,000 men each during the Normandy fighting, again this does not include surrenders. I am not sure on Italian Front loses, but I guess they be about the same.

no pictures for me this turn.

A sample of combat engine, but a turn after the invasion Germany loses 3x as many troops as WA's?

and I thought WitE combat engine was off.

Need more data to be sure, ten turns should give a solid ratio.

http://www.britannica.com/event/Normandy-Invasion/images-videos/The-exact-number-of-casualties-suffered-in-the-invasion-of/40555

It might be as WAD
I had more losses than you up until right before DDay ( Operation Godwinson). That is when Operation Zeus went into action.

...more to edit.....

< Message edited by KWG -- 11/22/2015 10:32:51 PM >

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RE: Pelton (GHC) vs KWG (WA) turn 50 - 11/22/2015 10:02:54 PM

Peltonx

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Loses are total loses, which is the only why to count out FoW

They are total loses on loses screen.

Same way we do it on EF.

Need to have at least 5 turn blocks, that was for 1 turn which could be different then WitE engine.

But it is what it is.

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(in reply to KWG)

Post #: 89

RE: Pelton (GHC) vs KWG (WA) turn 50 - 11/23/2015 1:11:56 AM

KWG

Posts: 1249
Joined: 9/29/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pelton

Loses are total loses, which is the only why to count out FoW

They are total loses on loses screen.

Same way we do it on EF.

Need to have at least 5 turn blocks, that was for 1 turn which could be different then WitE engine.

But it is what it is.

I think I understand what you are saying. I was referring to my total losses being more than yours up to right before DDay.
I should have said WAP - Working As Planned in reference to Operation Zeus and the effect it should be having on your forces.

Ive been doing a part of a turn, saving-doing something else, then returning.
Working or taking a walk down to the river to contemplate my next action for the turn.
Playing the AI is fun but this system really shines when playing a human.

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(in reply to Peltonx)

Post #: 90

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