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Medium Bombers, Airfield Size - 12/1/2015 11:47:33 PM   
sfatula

 

Posts: 100
Joined: 9/8/2015
From: Calera, OK
Status: offline 		In the manual, it says that there are penalties for certain bomber sizes and certain airfield sizes. For a medium bomber, it appears you want at least a size 4 + (bomb load / 6500) rounded down. So, a B-26 Marauder is a medium bomber of course. Looks like it can carry 6 500lb bombs, so, I presume it can operate out of a level 4 airfield with no penalty at all.

What I cannot seem to find is whether or not it *could* operate out of say a size 1 airfield. Say I had aviation support, was not overstacked, etc. Would it ever launch at normal range, or, will it simply not ever launch due to size 1? Since that's 3 levels under the normal level needed, I would assume any penalty would be severe of course. Just curious if it might ever be able to launch a bombing mission. Not if it's wise to do so, etc., would it ever be able to launch a mission?
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RE: Medium Bombers, Airfield Size - 12/2/2015 12:09:20 AM   
Alfred

 

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Read s.7.2.1.13.1 of the manual.

Alfred

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RE: Medium Bombers, Airfield Size - 12/2/2015 12:19:06 AM   
sfatula

 

Posts: 100
Joined: 9/8/2015
From: Calera, OK
Status: offline 		Never saw that section, thanks! Well, I probably did, but, did not register. Will keep re-reading.

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Post #: 3
RE: Medium Bombers, Airfield Size - 12/2/2015 1:34:30 PM   
m10bob


Posts: 8622
Joined: 11/3/2002
From: Dismal Seepage Indiana
Status: offline 		Medium bombers will fly from a size 2 field, but the number of them will be limited.
The larger the field, the more can take off at once.
Size 4 fields are where heavies are comfortable.

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RE: Medium Bombers, Airfield Size - 12/2/2015 4:05:37 PM   
koniu


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Joined: 2/28/2011
From: Konin, Poland, European Union
Status: offline 		bombers don`t suffer penalties (reduced bomb load, only normal range, limited numbers that can fly) when airfield is proper size

Light bombers, Dive bombers, torpedo bombers
AF must be lvl 2 or more

Medium Bombers
AF must be lvl 4 or more

Heavy bombers
For most planes AF must be lvl 5 or more
For Lincoln B.1 - AF must be lvl 6 or more
For B-29, B-29-25, B-29B, B-32, and Lancaster B.1 - AF must be lvl 7 or more






< Message edited by koniu -- 12/2/2015 5:08:51 PM >

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RE: Medium Bombers, Airfield Size - 12/2/2015 4:44:53 PM   
crsutton


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Status: offline 		It should be noted that float planes can arm and bomb normally from a dot hex if a tender is present. May not need a tender. Just support and supply but i cant remember off hand.


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RE: Medium Bombers, Airfield Size - 12/2/2015 5:03:37 PM   
Shark7


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quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

It should be noted that float planes can arm and bomb normally from a dot hex if a tender is present. May not need a tender. Just support and supply but i cant remember off hand.



I can confirm this one. I made a mod that added some float torpedo bombers and they would fly missions from a dot hex with a base force as support. They would also carry torpedoes if available.

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RE: Medium Bombers, Airfield Size - 12/3/2015 3:10:20 AM   
Dili

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: koniu

bombers don`t suffer penalties (reduced bomb load, only normal range, limited numbers that can fly) when airfield is proper size

Light bombers, Dive bombers, torpedo bombers
AF must be lvl 2 or more

Medium Bombers
AF must be lvl 4 or more

Heavy bombers
For most planes AF must be lvl 5 or more
For Lincoln B.1 - AF must be lvl 6 or more
For B-29, B-29-25, B-29B, B-32, and Lancaster B.1 - AF must be lvl 7 or more




How the game knows the differences between heavy bombers? Load weight?

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RE: Medium Bombers, Airfield Size - 12/3/2015 4:42:30 AM   
sfatula

 

Posts: 100
Joined: 9/8/2015
From: Calera, OK
Status: offline 		Regarding float planes, dot bases, and AVs... So, as the allies, I have an AV without any cargo capacity, the Curtiss in Guad scenario, disbanded at a dot base. So, the AV itself cannot have any supplies on board. I seem to be able to use search missions from the dot base just fine of course. I have yet been able to launch a naval attack, which I was trying to do in some odd circumstances against un-escorted ships. They never seemed to launch yet at least with some enemy TF well in range spotted by search planes. The dot base has 1,600 supplies, and, I have less PBY than the AVs seaplane support value. The Curtiss has no air capacity value.

Should a Curtiss AV allow PBYs to launch a naval strike from a dot base? If not, why?

If it can, then, I am fine as it's all the other factors that affect whether a strike is launched or not, just wondering about AV and strike missions from dot bases.

(in reply to Shark7)
Post #: 9
RE: Medium Bombers, Airfield Size - 12/3/2015 4:51:41 AM   
koniu


Posts: 2763
Joined: 2/28/2011
From: Konin, Poland, European Union
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dili


quote:

ORIGINAL: koniu

bombers don`t suffer penalties (reduced bomb load, only normal range, limited numbers that can fly) when airfield is proper size

Light bombers, Dive bombers, torpedo bombers
AF must be lvl 2 or more

Medium Bombers
AF must be lvl 4 or more

Heavy bombers
For most planes AF must be lvl 5 or more
For Lincoln B.1 - AF must be lvl 6 or more
For B-29, B-29-25, B-29B, B-32, and Lancaster B.1 - AF must be lvl 7 or more




How the game knows the differences between heavy bombers? Load weight?


Game dose not recognize if this is Light, Medium or Heavy bomber to Determinate what minimal size of AF need to be used to avoid penalties. Game use "max. load" of plane to do that. Each plane model have his own number.

Max load is balanced and at the end it look like i write in earlier post

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RE: Medium Bombers, Airfield Size - 12/3/2015 5:25:23 AM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sfatula

Regarding float planes, dot bases, and AVs... So, as the allies, I have an AV without any cargo capacity, the Curtiss in Guad scenario, disbanded at a dot base. So, the AV itself cannot have any supplies on board. I seem to be able to use search missions from the dot base just fine of course. I have yet been able to launch a naval attack, which I was trying to do in some odd circumstances against un-escorted ships. They never seemed to launch yet at least with some enemy TF well in range spotted by search planes. The dot base has 1,600 supplies, and, I have less PBY than the AVs seaplane support value. The Curtiss has no air capacity value.

Should a Curtiss AV allow PBYs to launch a naval strike from a dot base? If not, why?

If it can, then, I am fine as it's all the other factors that affect whether a strike is launched or not, just wondering about AV and strike missions from dot bases.


AV Curtis has a 2650 load capacity. You must load before it can support seaplane bombing missions. There must be an Air HQ with torpedoes in supply to send the PBYs on a torpedo attack.

Your base has been able to fuel the PBYs for their search mission, but likely 1600 supply is too little to spare some for a bombing mission.

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Post #: 11
RE: Medium Bombers, Airfield Size - 12/3/2015 5:47:09 AM   
sfatula

 

Posts: 100
Joined: 9/8/2015
From: Calera, OK
Status: offline 		Where do you see that in stock scenario 4 (Guadalcanal)? Mine shows cargo, troop, fuel capacity of 0.


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Post #: 12
RE: Medium Bombers, Airfield Size - 12/3/2015 7:04:25 AM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sfatula

Regarding float planes, dot bases, and AVs... So, as the allies, I have an AV without any cargo capacity, the Curtiss in Guad scenario, disbanded at a dot base. So, the AV itself cannot have any supplies on board. I seem to be able to use search missions from the dot base just fine of course. I have yet been able to launch a naval attack, which I was trying to do in some odd circumstances against un-escorted ships. They never seemed to launch yet at least with some enemy TF well in range spotted by search planes. The dot base has 1,600 supplies, and, I have less PBY than the AVs seaplane support value. The Curtiss has no air capacity value.

Should a Curtiss AV allow PBYs to launch a naval strike from a dot base? If not, why?

If it can, then, I am fine as it's all the other factors that affect whether a strike is launched or not, just wondering about AV and strike missions from dot bases.


The Curtiss provides aviation support for up to 36 seaplanes. With 1600 supplies present, PBY strikes are possible if set to the naval attack mission.

Alfred

(in reply to sfatula)
Post #: 13
RE: Medium Bombers, Airfield Size - 12/3/2015 7:10:44 AM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

AV Curtis has a 2650 load capacity.

Wrong.

You must load before it can support seaplane bombing missions.

Wrong.

There must be an Air HQ with torpedoes in supply to send the PBYs on a torpedo attack.

Only correct in terms of delivering torpedoes. No adequately stocked Air HQ within range limits the PBYs to drop bombs. if assigned a naval attack mission.

Your base has been able to fuel the PBYs for their search mission, but likely 1600 supply is too little to spare some for a bombing mission.

Wrong.


Alfred

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 14
RE: Medium Bombers, Airfield Size - 12/3/2015 7:12:36 AM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sfatula

Where do you see that in stock scenario 4 (Guadalcanal)? Mine shows cargo, troop, fuel capacity of 0.




Correct. The Curtiss has zero cargo, troop or fuel carrying capacity.

Alfred

(in reply to sfatula)
Post #: 15
RE: Medium Bombers, Airfield Size - 12/3/2015 7:28:05 AM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: koniu


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dili


quote:

ORIGINAL: koniu

bombers don`t suffer penalties (reduced bomb load, only normal range, limited numbers that can fly) when airfield is proper size

Light bombers, Dive bombers, torpedo bombers
AF must be lvl 2 or more

Medium Bombers
AF must be lvl 4 or more

Heavy bombers
For most planes AF must be lvl 5 or more
For Lincoln B.1 - AF must be lvl 6 or more
For B-29, B-29-25, B-29B, B-32, and Lancaster B.1 - AF must be lvl 7 or more




How the game knows the differences between heavy bombers? Load weight?


Game dose not recognize if this is Light, Medium or Heavy bomber to Determinate what minimal size of AF need to be used to avoid penalties. Game use "max. load" of plane to do that. Each plane model have his own number.

Max load is balanced and at the end it look like i write in earlier post


Not correct.

Size of airfields is checked in two circumstances.

1. Whether an offensive mission is possible. This is covered in the section of the manual I directed the OP's attention to in post #2.

2. For heavy or medium bombers, and only these types of bombers, the formula

4 + (bomb load/6500) rounded down


is checked to determine whether penalties for flying from too small an airfield are applied.

Light bombers were introduced in AE and even though they too are viewed as level bombers, the above formula does not apply to them just as it does not apply to dive bombers or torpedo bombers.

Attack bombers were also introduced in AE. Almost all attack bombers are also classified as medium bombers and thus the above formula applies to them too.

Alfred

(in reply to koniu)
Post #: 16
RE: Medium Bombers, Airfield Size - 12/3/2015 9:06:49 AM   
koniu


Posts: 2763
Joined: 2/28/2011
From: Konin, Poland, European Union
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred


quote:

ORIGINAL: koniu


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dili


quote:

ORIGINAL: koniu

bombers don`t suffer penalties (reduced bomb load, only normal range, limited numbers that can fly) when airfield is proper size

Light bombers, Dive bombers, torpedo bombers
AF must be lvl 2 or more

Medium Bombers
AF must be lvl 4 or more

Heavy bombers
For most planes AF must be lvl 5 or more
For Lincoln B.1 - AF must be lvl 6 or more
For B-29, B-29-25, B-29B, B-32, and Lancaster B.1 - AF must be lvl 7 or more




How the game knows the differences between heavy bombers? Load weight?


Game dose not recognize if this is Light, Medium or Heavy bomber to Determinate what minimal size of AF need to be used to avoid penalties. Game use "max. load" of plane to do that. Each plane model have his own number.

Max load is balanced and at the end it look like i write in earlier post


Not correct.

Size of airfields is checked in two circumstances.

1. Whether an offensive mission is possible. This is covered in the section of the manual I directed the OP's attention to in post #2.

2. For heavy or medium bombers, and only these types of bombers, the formula

4 + (bomb load/6500) rounded down


is checked to determine whether penalties for flying from too small an airfield are applied.

Light bombers were introduced in AE and even though they too are viewed as level bombers, the above formula does not apply to them just as it does not apply to dive bombers or torpedo bombers.

Attack bombers were also introduced in AE. Almost all attack bombers are also classified as medium bombers and thus the above formula applies to them too.

Alfred

Thank you for clarifying this

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Post #: 17
RE: Medium Bombers, Airfield Size - 12/3/2015 11:48:37 AM   
Dili

 

Posts: 4708
Joined: 9/10/2004
Status: offline 		Thanks Alfred.

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RE: Medium Bombers, Airfield Size - 12/3/2015 3:50:02 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred


quote:

ORIGINAL: sfatula

Where do you see that in stock scenario 4 (Guadalcanal)? Mine shows cargo, troop, fuel capacity of 0.




Correct. The Curtiss has zero cargo, troop or fuel carrying capacity.

Alfred

It appears that the ship features and the way the AI handles them are different for Guadalcanal than Scenario 1 ...






Attachment (1)

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Post #: 19
RE: Medium Bombers, Airfield Size - 12/3/2015 4:55:11 PM   
crsutton


Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred


quote:

ORIGINAL: sfatula

Where do you see that in stock scenario 4 (Guadalcanal)? Mine shows cargo, troop, fuel capacity of 0.




Correct. The Curtiss has zero cargo, troop or fuel carrying capacity.

Alfred

It appears that the ship features and the way the AI handles them are different for Guadalcanal than Scenario 1 ...







So in this instance the Curtis has supplies loaded and should be able to support bombing mission with bombs at the least. Other factors will apply. Experience, leadership, morale and detection levels of potential targets. PBYs with moderate bombing experience seem to do fairly well in my experience and the 500 pounder will hurt anything but large warships. Considering the state of Allied torpedoes early on, I prefer that they bomb.


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Post #: 20
RE: Medium Bombers, Airfield Size - 12/3/2015 10:17:21 PM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred


quote:

ORIGINAL: sfatula

Where do you see that in stock scenario 4 (Guadalcanal)? Mine shows cargo, troop, fuel capacity of 0.




Correct. The Curtiss has zero cargo, troop or fuel carrying capacity.

Alfred

It appears that the ship features and the way the AI handles them are different for Guadalcanal than Scenario 1 ...







The AI does not handle the Curtiss differently in the two scenarios.

The main purpose of any AV is to provide tender support of FP and PA (and FF if available). Unlike the true ship tender classes which provide their tender support by virtue of just "existing", an AV only provides air support if weapon slot #19 has device #254 assigned. No such assignment, the AV provides no tender support for FP and PA. It is therefore irrelevant as to the provision of air support whether an AV carries on board any supplies.

Just like all air operations from a terrestrial airfield consume local supplies, so do FP/PA from a dot base. The code always looks to expend supply first from any supply held in a terrestrial depot and only if none exists there does it look if a relevant tender carries supply.

Continued air operations require both air support and supplies. The two concepts are separate and different.

Alfred

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 21
RE: Medium Bombers, Airfield Size - 12/3/2015 11:23:36 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred


quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred


quote:

ORIGINAL: sfatula

Where do you see that in stock scenario 4 (Guadalcanal)? Mine shows cargo, troop, fuel capacity of 0.




Correct. The Curtiss has zero cargo, troop or fuel carrying capacity.

Alfred

It appears that the ship features and the way the AI handles them are different for Guadalcanal than Scenario 1 ...







The AI does not handle the Curtiss differently in the two scenarios.

The main purpose of any AV is to provide tender support of FP and PA (and FF if available). Unlike the true ship tender classes which provide their tender support by virtue of just "existing", an AV only provides air support if weapon slot #19 has device #254 assigned. No such assignment, the AV provides no tender support for FP and PA. It is therefore irrelevant as to the provision of air support whether an AV carries on board any supplies.

Just like all air operations from a terrestrial airfield consume local supplies, so do FP/PA from a dot base. The code always looks to expend supply first from any supply held in a terrestrial depot and only if none exists there does it look if a relevant tender carries supply.

Continued air operations require both air support and supplies. The two concepts are separate and different.

Alfred

Thanks for the clarification about the device assignment being a prerequisite for aviation support. I didn't know (or remember) that. So I guess in the Guadalcanal scenario Curtiss is just a decoy for Japanese bombs and torpedoes intended for useful ships?

My comments about the 1600 tons at the base likely being inadequate were a suspicion from a sketchy description of what was at the base and the likelihood that construction was happening there, giving a weekly usage that precluded air bombing ops. Just making a suggestion for one of the things the OP could look at as a factor in the lack of action from the PBYs. Never meant to imply 1600 tons would not be enough in all cases.

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(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 22
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