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RE: exploit. - 12/12/2015 2:22:59 PM   
KWG


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Status: offline 		As history shows operation Cobra over a week, 25–31 July 1944.

"As I stated I am talking loses during the campaign - I am not cherry picking one operation.

As I stated most loses during the Normandy operation (3 months) were from ground combat and the loss ratio was

http://www.britannica.com/event/Normandy-Invasion/images-videos/The-exact-number-of-casualties-suffered-in-the-invasion-of/40555

You need to find data that supports your agreement and does not support my in game and historical data, but thanks you for helping.

Historically speaking Cobra lasted a week and not 4 weeks and counting or 3 months "




Historically speaking the >1000 planes bombing mission of Cobra lasted less than a day


Same for Goodwood.





So I can only do tactics that will give a historical average over the same time?


I could do very bad attacks, attacking one division at a time massively and suffer the reverse of the ratio? Would that be ahistorical? Therefore not allowed?


Historically most German losses came from vain attacks against Allied Forces, not German Forces sitting in trenches taking low losses, racking up points while running down the clock, plain an simple, it does not match up to what happened historically.



< Message edited by KWG -- 12/17/2015 2:59:28 AM >

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RE: exploit. - 12/12/2015 2:35:11 PM   
KWG


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pelton


quote:

ORIGINAL: KWG

"As all the players that have been around for yrs know you can not track loses using the current turn loss #'s - its called FOW. "



I just play, And Ive said Iam not that good. If given a test a on the rules and workings of the game I would be very lucky to get a passing grade.


Lets play on as the game is an interesting test case for pushing the system.

over the years 75% of my game don't do this and are kinda boring.

This is 1 of the 25% that stresses the game and I personally love these games and they bring up heated debate on the forums about the system good or bad and almost always leads to a better system as its weak WAD areas come to light.





WOW thats good to hear. This has been awesome. So different than AI, Its a different world. The unknown is the greatest factor.


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RE: exploit. - 12/12/2015 2:39:20 PM   
KWG


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Status: offline 		Each cherry that its picked adds up to the Jam.



If each battle is a cherry then you get a Jam based on those cherries.


And if the cherries are different than the last harvest then the jam will be different.


Iam going to go eat.

< Message edited by KWG -- 12/12/2015 3:45:39 PM >

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RE: exploit. - 12/12/2015 5:15:25 PM   
KWG


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quote:


"Looking for more data but looks like 10% of loses were caused by "bombing" and 50-70% by artillery fire depending on weather/terrain ect ect."


Yes, that is because of the TACTICS they used , not just due to the weapons.











Yes Iam Cherrying picking. Iam look at the WW2 orchard and saying I only want the sweetest cherries for my next batch of jam. NOT WW2 jam because that jam has been made from that one batch of cherries which were from the most tart to the most sweet.

So I pick only the variety of sweetest ww2 cherry trees to grow in my orchard for my new jam.

After my cheeries grow and the jam is made I set it next to the WW2 jam on the shelf. Two jars on the shelf...both jam... with different flavor, texture, etc.

Both WW2 jam and MY jam have some of the same cherries, but my jam has more of the sweeter cherries.


///////////////
////////
////

I thought about playing this turn as bad as I can. Do the best things I can do to get the WORST results.

The goal will be to have a Allied to German loss ratio of greater than 20 to 1. Then compare my ALL tart cherry Jam to the semi-sweet cherry WW2 jam.
The results would be very unhistorical, but would it mean the system is flawed?




The only thing Ive done so far this turn is just general checking of unit conditions, how the front looks, depots, formulatating possible strategies then seeing which ones would be the best.

Taken some screenshots.


Have not touched any Air Exection or changed anything.

I just look at my Squadrons - I dont whether to spank them all or hug them.



Even though its Air execution phase, I formulate my ground strategies first so I know how to do the majority of my Air forces.

Do checking of screens and try to keep up with real world numbers as best as I can, And if its Fog of War Iam usually fogged.

Loss screen numbers are comming and going so I keep up with them best I can.

I like looking at the battle detail screens, what fired the most, got in closest, etc. in the ground combat phase





///////////////
//////// SHAEF
//// WEEK 52

Iam going to summit a battle plan for an ground attack and unit bombing in real world detail and how it would apply in War in the West.

< Message edited by KWG -- 12/12/2015 6:32:04 PM >

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morveal + D-man - 12/12/2015 9:56:03 PM   
Peltonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KWG

As history shows operation Cobra over a week, 25–31 July 1944.

"As I stated I am talking loses during the campaign - I am not cherry picking one operation.

As I stated most loses during the Normandy operation (3 months) were from ground combat and the loss ratio was

http://www.britannica.com/event/Normandy-Invasion/images-videos/The-exact-number-of-casualties-suffered-in-the-invasion-of/40555

You need to find data that supports your agreement and does not support my in game and historical data, but thanks you for helping.

Historically speaking Cobra lasted a week and not 4 weeks and counting or 3 months "


So I can only do tactics that will give a historical average over the same time?

I could do very bad attacks, attacking one division at a time massively and suffer the reverse of the ratio? Would that be ahistorical? Therefore not allowed?


Historically most German losses came from vain attacks against Allied Forces, not German Forces sitting in trenches taking low losses, racking up points while running down the clock, plain an simple, it does not match up to what happened historically.




PUSH THE SYSTEM

same thing I told liquidsky, sapper, hoooper, MT, TDV ect ect.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0c3d7QgZr7g

Its nice to see how the code really works.

People hate change, change generally requires a kick in the ass.

The older we are the less we like change.

We still be using windows 1.0 if not for a bunch of pissed off users and people that wanted more in a positive way.

Windows 10.0 dam that's allot of positive change.

morveal and D-man have zero issue with change, they love it which is why WitE 1.0 is 1000x better now then a yr ago.
They don't take things personal - its all about the code and historical data and game data.

They are free and not stuck in the mud = a positive mind set not a negative





< Message edited by Pelton -- 12/12/2015 11:08:47 PM >

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RE: morveal + D-man - 12/12/2015 11:38:27 PM   
KWG


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Status: offline 		Iam not saying You, LiquidSky, Seminole, etc., or me are wrong in evidence we have presented that contradict. Its context.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Pelton

PUSH THE SYSTEM





Getting ready to do that.




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RE: morveal + D-man - 12/13/2015 2:52:23 AM   
KWG


Posts: 1249
Joined: 9/29/2012
Status: offline 		I have start a AAR Lab thread, in the War Room, to explore some things discussed here.

Pic Heavy, I will be editing the pic that have been added tonight further.


"Pelton (GHC) vs KWG (WA) Mission Lab"

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3987360

< Message edited by KWG -- 12/13/2015 3:52:57 AM >

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RE: morveal + D-man - 12/15/2015 6:56:41 PM   
KWG


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Status: offline 		Week 52 June 24, 1944
Rain over Normandy

Urgent Meeting, outside of London, called by KWG . Reminds Churchill to bring us something to drink.

Over the Skys of Normandy:

Fighter/Fighter Bombers 3,400 {Majority are FB}
Bombers 4,666
Recon 435

Total Aircraft 8,501


Covering less than 400 miles 8,501 = 21 aircraft per square mile.

< Message edited by KWG -- 12/15/2015 7:58:18 PM >

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RE: morveal + D-man - 12/15/2015 11:19:22 PM   
KWG


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Status: offline 		Invasion week 49 and its now week 52.

No Allied planes have flown over the Fatherland

It has been "Springtime for Hitler and Germany" in the skys. The German people could be told they won the war and when they looked up at the skys they would believe it.


Bombing VPs at 3. However its based on total factory points still damaged not just what was bombed last turn. Correct?!
(Total VPs adjust to Axis' VP bug)


Can this be interpreted as the Germans are lacking or using support units for something else? No priority repairs?




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by KWG -- 12/16/2015 12:22:44 AM >

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RE: morveal + D-man - 12/15/2015 11:30:16 PM   
Peltonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KWG

Invasion week 49 and its now week 52.

No Allied planes have flown over the Fatherland

It has been "Springtime for Hitler and Germany" in the skys. The German people could be told they won the war and when they looked up at the skys they would believe it.


Bombing VPs at 3. However its based on total factory points still damaged not just what was bombed last turn. Correct?!
(Total VPs adjust to Axis' VP bug)


Can this be interpreted as the Germans are lacking or using support units for something else? No priority repairs?





Noper I have a units on every V site and every site in Germany that needs fixing over 15.

So almost every con unit has been fixing a site.

Germany has more then enough pts to free up every division and repair every site being bombed + some before May 44+



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RE: morveal + D-man - 12/16/2015 12:49:01 AM   
KWG


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Status: offline 		Rain will be a blessing this week as it times perfect for a RR for Pilots in England.


Excitement at US airbases in England as rocket firing P47s arrive.

Rockets and bombs P47s will create a ALUMINUM OVERCAST for France, with guaranteed THUNDER and LIGHTNING.

P51s are being rockets tested.


Aircraft numbers look good, pilot experience climbing!
So many aircraft being produced in US, women are trained to shuttle aircraft to England. B17s arrive in flocks.

RAF Bomber Command flies through Normandy missions in good form.


The past few weeks have been hell for Allied pilots. Rest and Recreation and a FINE TUNING of future operations will be the focus of this week.




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< Message edited by KWG -- 12/16/2015 3:14:24 PM >

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RE: morveal + D-man - 12/16/2015 2:01:18 PM   
KWG


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Status: offline 		Week 52 June 24, 1944

Air Phase

The first question of the Air Phase asked should be what will be my actions and goals of the Ground Phase? That will give the best direction of your Air Phase.

It must be remembered that Iam at a disadvantage in my Air Operations due to the interdiction bug, so I could be doing better than I have been.

The rain is a blessing, in a way as it allows me to RandR and bring in new Air Frames during a already weather disadvantaged week.
Plus I have some reserves, Just in case I did not get a timely rain week.

After checking ALL my ground forces and making sure no one is at the front walking around with a half full canteen. Better be Full or Empty.

Its determined that:

I have 3 possible attacks, outlined in blue. That will bring and led to the best results.

My ranking of which attack should get the resources, leaving the others to maybe get cancelled are:
3-29 Forces
4-21 Forces
27-x Forces

Its still in hot discussion and at the meeting things got out of hand and I ended up sending Patton to find a broom and Churchill to find a dustpan.

A attack on 4=21 forces has been ruled out. Even a attack that was total successful would weaken our forces too much in the hex.

It looks like the Germans are building up for a attack on our lead elements.
Resources will be allocated for that area just not for an attack.


The attack on 27=x has been ruled out.


3-29 Forces gets green light.
It looks like the Germans weakened, from last week, the one hex that would do us the most good. By taking the 3=29 hex we get some important rail and expand the beachhead allowing room for reserves.
Now we just have to take it.

We will also be assaulting Cherbourg.


Several thousand aircraft still on station. A more defensive than offensive role for Allied Air Forces this week.


If the Germans attack our lead elements it will be a close fight. That even if the Germans win it will be pyrrhic victory.








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< Message edited by KWG -- 12/16/2015 8:58:45 PM >

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RE: morveal + D-man - 12/16/2015 10:26:28 PM   
Peltonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KWG

Week 52 June 24, 1944

Air Phase

The first question of the Air Phase asked should be what will be my actions and goals of the Ground Phase? That will give the best direction of your Air Phase.

It must be remembered that Iam at a disadvantage in my Air Operations due to the interdiction bug, so I could be doing better than I have been.

The rain is a blessing, in a way as it allows me to RandR and bring in new Air Frames during a already weather disadvantaged week.
Plus I have some reserves, Just in case I did not get a timely rain week.

After checking ALL my ground forces and making sure no one is at the front walking around with a half full canteen. Better be Full or Empty.

Its determined that:

I have 3 possible attacks, outlined in blue. That will bring and led to the best results.

My ranking of which attack should get the resources, leaving the others to maybe get cancelled are:
3-29 Forces
4-21 Forces
27-x Forces

Its still in hot discussion and at the meeting things got out of hand and I ended up sending Patton to find a broom and Churchill to find a dustpan.

A attack on 4=21 forces has been ruled out. Even a attack that was total successful would weaken our forces too much in the hex.

It looks like the Germans are building up for a attack on our lead elements.
Resources will be allocated for that area just not for an attack.


The attack on 27=x has been ruled out.


3-29 Forces gets green light.
It looks like the Germans weakened, from last week, the one hex that would do us the most good.

and falls into my tragedy ( yup that's what I call it) hexes to Berlin and now hexes to VP centers.


By taking the 3=29 hex we get some important rail and expand the beachhead allowing room for reserves.
Now we just have to take it.

We will also be assaulting Cherbourg.


Several thousand aircraft still on station. A more defensive than offensive role for Allied Air Forces this week.


If the Germans attack our lead elements it will be a close fight.

That even if the Germans win it will be pyrrhic victory.

This also is a solid point I have been making for yrs. Attacking as Germany 43+ only helps The Allies be they Russia or WA's.
As Germany even when you win your losing as it weakens your front line troops.

I will attack when I can destroy trucks (WitE) or rout/surrender (WitW).

I know its boring and some think its gamey, but I do not make the rules or have control over the combat engine.

I don't see the point of attacking unless if I win I gain something, the current ruleset punishes Germany for attacking in "most"
cases after 43. Helping the allies by attacking to weaken yourself is pointless.

If you have data that can refute that post it, I posted yrs of in game data supporting my side.










What I am waiting for is you to screw up so I can attack and win just below the head(= rout a stack) then rout the head = 3 more units routed.

I done this before.

I can only make you grind as Germany and counter attack when your really stupid or during bad weather when your over confident.

Grind on.



< Message edited by Pelton -- 12/16/2015 11:32:34 PM >

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RE: exploit. - 12/16/2015 10:33:14 PM   
Peltonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KWG

As history shows operation Cobra over a week, 25–31 July 1944.

"As I stated I am talking loses during the campaign - I am not cherry picking one operation.

As I stated most loses during the Normandy operation (3 months) were from ground combat and the loss ratio was

http://www.britannica.com/event/Normandy-Invasion/images-videos/The-exact-number-of-casualties-suffered-in-the-invasion-of/40555

You need to find data that supports your agreement and does not support my in game and historical data, but thanks you for helping.

Historically speaking Cobra lasted a week and not 4 weeks and counting or 3 months "




Historically speaking Cobra lasted less than a day








So I can only do tactics that will give a historical average over the same time?


I could do very bad attacks, attacking one division at a time massively and suffer the reverse of the ratio? Would that be ahistorical? Therefore not allowed?


Historically most German losses came from vain attacks against Allied Forces, not German Forces sitting in trenches taking low losses, racking up points while running down the clock, plain an simple, it does not match up to what happened historically.




6 days from what I have read.


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RE: exploit. - 12/17/2015 12:39:20 AM   
KWG


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quote:


This also is a solid point I have been making for yrs. Attacking as Germany 43+ only helps The Allies be they Russia or WA's.
As Germany even when you win your losing as it weakens your front line troops.

I will attack when I can destroy trucks (WitE) or rout/surrender (WitW).

I know its boring and some think its gamey, but I do not make the rules or have control over the combat engine.

I don't see the point of attacking unless if I win I gain something, the current ruleset punishes Germany for attacking in "most"
cases after 43. Helping the allies by attacking to weaken yourself is pointless.

If you have data that can refute that post it, I posted yrs of in game data supporting my side.




NOW! NOW! NOW!

I have only brought up your ahistorical action in DEFENCE of you accusing me.

YOU ARE CORRECT IN DOING WHAT YOU ARE DOING. THAT IS WHAT THE GERMANS SHOULD HAVE DONE.
regardless of game VPs


Iam doing what I think the Allies should have done.

We are both acting within the physical limits of the modeled real world.

Ahistorical does not mean its wrong which has been my point when my actions are accused of "being ahistorical therefore wrong" context.

To land anywhere but Normandy is ahistorical but not wrong.
To do a major German offense every week or none at all is ahistorical, but not wrong


quote:

"I know its boring and some think its gamey, but I do not make the rules or have control over the combat engine."


NO not boring to me, it's very exciting!!! , as Allies Iam forcing my way thru bear traps that could go off at anytime. Thats why it takes time for me to do a turn now, Iam doing what staffs of 1000s did. This very exciting and it' a different world compared to the AI.
A human can do CRAZY, ILLOGICAL stuff that will have BRILLANT results.

Gamey? During the Russian offense of DEC.'41, the Russians dropped troops, without parachutes, out of planes into snow drifts, how Gamey is that? The Germans should have cried foul and had the war stopped right then.

For the germans to get rid of bombers and put all pilots into fighters, is a legit thing that could have been done.

NOW....If you ask me to start taking German refugees , that look like SS troops I will SCREAM

< Message edited by KWG -- 12/17/2015 4:41:55 AM >

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RE: exploit. - 12/17/2015 12:43:56 AM   
KWG


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quote:


"3-29 Forces gets green light.
It looks like the Germans weakened, from last week, the one hex that would do us the most good.
quote:


and falls into my tragedy ( yup that's what I call it) hexes to Berlin and now hexes to VP centers. "



All I can do is grind, and please stay close to me, because when/if it breaks ......


Iam not playing for VPs, Iam playing to destroy the German fighting forces in the field.


When its good weather again.

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RE: exploit. - 12/17/2015 12:58:25 AM   
KWG


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quote:


Historically speaking Cobra lasted less than a day


6 days from what I have read.


There has been a lot of lose and out of context talk on this subject.

Cobra/Goodwood were both ground operations that began with a 1 mission/>1000 planes raid.
So to say Cobra lasted a week is true when talking about the ground part.
When people say Goodwood or Cobra bombing wise its the big air raid they refer to.

HOWEVER:
There were many other small tactical bombings being done by the 8th, outside of the 2 cobra/Goodwood missions, 4 months.

"The analysts point out that in June, July, August and September the 8th Air Force did a lot of tactical bombing, whereas in October the 8th Air Force engaged exclusively on strategic targets"
(Operations Analysis in the U.S. Army Eight Air Force in World War II)

As my post about the command structure and Doolittle's inventiveness, the Majority Tactical Doctrine fell apart, due to the people in command. Combat Ratios Thread.

As much as the bombers the ground commanders wanted the over a 1000 escort aircraft of the Mighty 8th.






< Message edited by KWG -- 12/17/2015 1:24:10 PM >

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Summer'44 - 12/18/2015 12:26:06 AM   
KWG


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Status: offline 		Week 52 June 24, 1944

Russia informs the world of Operation Bagration.
Since the East Front box is off, Intel checks on how this will affect the Germans in the west.


Italy

Air forces undergoing massive changes. Several attacks planned that can provided big gains.

Prepped Mission waiting for the GO signal.




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< Message edited by KWG -- 12/18/2015 2:43:22 AM >

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RE: Summer'44 - 12/18/2015 2:19:07 PM   
KWG


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Status: offline 		Week 52 June 24, 1944


Air Phase Finished.


Got a good sign yesterday for my Air Forces. While on the tractor I had a Bald Eagle 'fly by' at about 20 feet off the ground.
I did not see a weasel on its back. (a reference to the pic from Britain of the woodpecker with a weasel on its back)


//////Normandy

RAF Bomber Command is the BEST when it comes to experience. Some of the them get the week off, others carryout daylight attacks on verified German positions, suspected HQ/supply areas, crossroads, patches of woods where enemy forces could be , suspect movement paths, clusters of buildings and ANY other place where Germans could be hiding within a 10 mile radius.

Some of the Squadrons given leave. Large number of aircraft put on Ground Support standby.
Recon squadrons given a good inspection.
New air frames are put on line.

/////////Italy

Some squadrons given leave others conduct Low intensity missions.
Ground situation for Germans looks like it may be nearing the breaking point. Several transfers of squadrons to England, arriving with miles still ready to go on missions.

Decisions were made on some of the ground units sitting as reserves in North Africa.

Gave a good going over of all Allied supply depots. Allied player has to really watch and make sure depots are not OVERSUPPLIED in areas that already have supplies enough for months or even over a year, at their present consumption rate and still getting more.


< Message edited by KWG -- 12/18/2015 4:14:27 PM >

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RE: Summer'44 - 12/18/2015 11:49:50 PM   
KWG


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Cherbourg is captured by the Allies. Captured Germans marched through the city. French women give thank you flowers to an American officer.




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MONTY !!! - 12/19/2015 1:37:14 AM   
KWG


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Italy... Monty's Legions....

XIII Corps rolls on.


6th Armored Division a Mailed Fist INDEED.

Germans in the open without trenches are easy prey for swarms of Engineers backed by armor.




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< Message edited by KWG -- 12/19/2015 2:42:33 AM >

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RE: MONTY !!! - 12/19/2015 11:58:09 AM   
Peltonx


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Status: offline 		You remind me allot of Sapper, with the snake tactics just on a very small scale.

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Blitzkrieg - 12/19/2015 3:52:49 PM   
KWG


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pelton

You remind me allot of Sapper, with the snake tactics just on a very small scale.


Snake or a Horn?

I thought I was doing Blitzkrieg and instead of many "horns- schwerpunkts", or two, Iam using just one. Plus in Italy Iam advancing along a valley.


The Germans became too predictable at it. Zhukov knew it would be two horns advancing on Moscow in '41. And then there was Kursk.




The total focus of my military might to combat units on the battlefield instead of German production and manpower is called Vernichtungsgedanke "concept of annihilation"


Battle of the Appian Way


Now the other Schwerpunkt moves and it takes the mountainous region north of Cisterna di Latina.




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< Message edited by KWG -- 12/19/2015 7:19:15 PM >

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RE: Blitzkrieg - 12/19/2015 7:17:24 PM   
Peltonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KWG

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pelton

You remind me allot of Sapper, with the snake tactics just on a very small scale.


Snake or a Horn?

I thought I was doing Blitzkrieg and instead of many "horns- schwerpunkts", or two, Iam using just one. Plus in Italy Iam advancing along a valley.


The Germans became too predictable at it. Zhukov knew it would be two horns advancing on Moscow in '41. And then there was Kursk.




The total focus of my military might to combat units on the battlefield instead of German production and manpower is called Vernichtungsgedanke "concept of annihilation"





Now the other Schwerpunkt moves and it takes the mountainous region north of Cisterna di Latina.




Blitzkrieg?

Snakekrieg more like it, 10-20 miles a week is Snakekrieg not Blitzkrieg.



< Message edited by Pelton -- 12/19/2015 8:18:31 PM >

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(in reply to KWG)
Post #: 234
RE: Blitzkrieg - 12/19/2015 10:17:57 PM   
KWG


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quote:

Blitzkrieg?

Snakekrieg more like it, 10-20 miles a week is Snakekrieg not Blitzkrieg.



LOL I move 10-20 miles very fast.

If you would scoot over some I could do some distance.

Snakes are lightning fast, they move slow for a reason.

For 1944, not bad... at least compared to Kursk.


Iam not a expert at this, just bumping along the best I can.

< Message edited by KWG -- 12/20/2015 1:17:23 AM >

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Post #: 235
RE: Blitzkrieg - 12/20/2015 12:12:29 AM   
KWG


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Status: offline 		Italy... Battles wage south of Rome

British 8th Army and US 5th Army locked in battle with German forces along the coasts, in the valleys and on the mountains.


British, American and South African soldiers hold up a Nazi trophy flag while combat engineers on bulldozers clear a path through the debris.


German 275th Infantry Division takes 4-1 losses and routes.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by KWG -- 12/20/2015 1:16:43 AM >

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Post #: 236
RE: Blitzkrieg - 12/20/2015 11:11:33 AM   
Peltonx


Posts: 7250
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Status: offline 		Be interesting to see what unhistorical combat ratio is spit out by the combat engine this turn from your 5 week long Cobra offensive.

and as we can see Red it has zero effect on the VP's, so what is the down side?

This is why we call it an exploit.

Nothing wrong here people move along everything is WAD.

Historical ratio 1.5 yo 1

WitW engine ratio 5 to 1 at least.

< Message edited by Pelton -- 12/20/2015 12:15:00 PM >

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RE: Not an exploit. - 12/20/2015 11:34:10 AM   
Peltonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KWG

Yes it is and it's silly to think that a airplane could destroy a battleship.


But its historical.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans-Ulrich_Rudel

1 plane

1 bomb

1 ship

SUNK.

Stukas the first smart bombs.

His book is a great read.

Also interesting that Russia has same # of combat planes as US so more then US in Europe.

Wiki Far more TAC planes.

So we can expect the same exploit with WitE 2.0

Operation Cobra from 1941 to 45


< Message edited by Pelton -- 12/20/2015 12:37:26 PM >

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RE: Not an exploit. - 12/20/2015 12:03:44 PM   
carlkay58

 

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Status: offline 		Yes the Soviets will have a large air force. It does not mean they will be able to do much with it except get shot down a lot. Their pilots will be worse than the Allied pilots and their planes will not be as good.

I still don't see where you think the Allies can project the air power that they can in Normandy throughout the rest of the war. Believe me, I have tried really hard to do so, but it just does not work. Yes the Allies can project a lot of air power for a turn or two, but after that they have to rest those air forces for a few turns before they can hope to have the same effect again. Even with the 8th USAAF helping the ground game, it just can't happen. Maybe in a small portion of the front by rotating the RAF Fighter Command, RAF 2nd Tactical AF, the 9th USAAF, and the 8th USAAF they will be able to maintain the pressure, but it will cost them air support over the rest of the front. Ground attacks rip up the Allied air really bad. High flak losses eliminate a lot of the Allied FBs and pilots. You just can't keep it going once the front widens. Of course, if you keep the front small by bottling up the Allied invasion(s) then the Allies will be able to continue to pound your units for a longer period of time. But it won't be for long before the air groups just don't have the effects due to high fatigue and low experience and morale.

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RE: Not an exploit. - 12/20/2015 12:20:49 PM   
LiquidSky


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The allied experience stays high....they are, after all...flying a lot. It's the morale that goes up and down like a yo-yo.

The biggest contributer to bad morale for the allies is FlaK. If you hit areas with low flak, you can sustain an air offensive. If you hit areas with high flak, you can only hit them once every three or four turns.

You can also mitigate it somewhat by flying high. Usually about 1/3rd of my allied airforce remains grounded turn to turn because of bad morale.

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