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RE: Canada and India invaded! - 1/7/2016 2:58:45 PM   
tiemanjw

 

Posts: 580
Joined: 12/6/2008
Status: offline
quote:

They provide Aviation Support that does not require he tender to be disbanded.


What do you know... learn something every day. I admit I didn't believe you at first, so I took one of my bases that that some AVs in port, formed them into a support TF, and the base info screen still indicated they could provide support. Learn something new every day. Thanks.

Yours and BBFanBoy's points all stand - it is probably usually better to disband for the reasons stated, but it isn't necessary.

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 1561
RE: Canada and India invaded! - 1/7/2016 3:19:14 PM   
poodlebrain

 

Posts: 392
Joined: 10/4/2012
From: Comfy Chair in Baton Rouge
Status: offline 		An ancillary benefit of suppressing the airfield at Coal Harbor is it prevents expansion of the port. And a level 1 port is a rather severe limitation on Coal Harbor as a sustainable forward base of operations. If the KB returns to support Coal Harbor I would take it as a sign that Japan has plans for some sort of offensive operation on the West Coast. A level 1 port at Coal Harbor will make it useless as a staging base for any large scale operation.

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Post #: 1562
RE: Canada and India invaded! - 1/7/2016 5:28:29 PM   
tiemanjw

 

Posts: 580
Joined: 12/6/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: poodlebrain

An ancillary benefit of suppressing the airfield at Coal Harbor is it prevents expansion of the port. And a level 1 port is a rather severe limitation on Coal Harbor as a sustainable forward base of operations. If the KB returns to support Coal Harbor I would take it as a sign that Japan has plans for some sort of offensive operation on the West Coast. A level 1 port at Coal Harbor will make it useless as a staging base for any large scale operation.


While suppression is never a bad idea... don't underestimate how much you can move through a small port given enough nav support. And enough is not all that much (at least not as far as the allies are concerned). 1 USN BF can make it viable, and 2, well, even better.

(in reply to poodlebrain)
Post #: 1563
RE: Canada and India invaded! - 1/7/2016 6:18:10 PM   
poodlebrain

 

Posts: 392
Joined: 10/4/2012
From: Comfy Chair in Baton Rouge
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tiemanj

While suppression is never a bad idea... don't underestimate how much you can move through a small port given enough nav support. And enough is not all that much (at least not as far as the allies are concerned). 1 USN BF can make it viable, and 2, well, even better.

I would presume that while suppressing the airfield that Joc would also bombard the port occasionally to reduce its cargo and fuel handling capacities. This would prolong the presence of any ships loading and/or unloading offering increased opportunities to attack them while they are most vulnerable. It would also limit the utility of the base for naval combatants as refueling and rearming would be a problem. Knowing Japanese surface combat capabilities are limited, I would create PT boats at Victoria to make nuisance raids on Coal Harbor and create some small fast SCTFs to make sorties against Victoria whenever shipping is detected at Coal Harbor. Without the KB to support Coal Harbor, it would become an extremely dangerous place for any assets the Japanese commit there.


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Never trust a man who's ass is wider than his shoulders.

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Post #: 1564
RE: Canada and India invaded! - 1/7/2016 6:41:19 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline 		Jocke is marching troops overland to take Coal Harbour, so he doesn't want to spook them into evacuating before he gets there.

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(in reply to poodlebrain)
Post #: 1565
RE: Canada and India invaded! - 1/7/2016 7:05:54 PM   
tiemanjw

 

Posts: 580
Joined: 12/6/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: poodlebrain


quote:

ORIGINAL: tiemanj

While suppression is never a bad idea... don't underestimate how much you can move through a small port given enough nav support. And enough is not all that much (at least not as far as the allies are concerned). 1 USN BF can make it viable, and 2, well, even better.

I would presume that while suppressing the airfield that Joc would also bombard the port occasionally to reduce its cargo and fuel handling capacities. This would prolong the presence of any ships loading and/or unloading offering increased opportunities to attack them while they are most vulnerable. It would also limit the utility of the base for naval combatants as refueling and rearming would be a problem. Knowing Japanese surface combat capabilities are limited, I would create PT boats at Victoria to make nuisance raids on Coal Harbor and create some small fast SCTFs to make sorties against Victoria whenever shipping is detected at Coal Harbor. Without the KB to support Coal Harbor, it would become an extremely dangerous place for any assets the Japanese commit there.



I agree with all that. I was just saying that naval support squads vastly increase load / unload rate - much more cost effectively than increasing port size.

(in reply to poodlebrain)
Post #: 1566
RE: Canada and India invaded! - 1/7/2016 8:15:27 PM   
poodlebrain

 

Posts: 392
Joined: 10/4/2012
From: Comfy Chair in Baton Rouge
Status: offline 		Naval support squads at small unfortified ports are highly vulnerable to bombardment. And naval support does not increase fuel handling.

_____________________________

Never trust a man who's ass is wider than his shoulders.

(in reply to tiemanjw)
Post #: 1567
RE: Canada and India invaded! - 1/7/2016 11:58:17 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		At Coal Harbor, would a SCTF, followed by DMS TF, a bombardment TF and then a DM or two laying mines be effective? Should the DMS go first, separately or be included in both the SCTF and the Bombardment group? If they went in at full speed, they should be able to get back under your CAP, correct? Close the port until your mines are cleared as well as doing damage to the port, airfield and airplanes as well destroying supplies.


_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to poodlebrain)
Post #: 1568
RE: Canada and India invaded! - 1/8/2016 4:44:55 PM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		5th August -42
______________________________________________________________________________

Sadly only a quick update. Busy evening!

------------------------
NORPAC
------------------------
Absolutely perfectly timed...and weather make a mass of things.

First all my DDs clashed with a small transport TF defended by some Japanese DDs. Results are...underwhelming.

quote:

Night Time Surface Combat, near Coal Harbour at 204,49, Range 2,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
DD Asagumo, Shell hits 3, heavy fires
DD Umikaze
DD Suzukaze
DD Shirayuki
E Kunashiri, Shell hits 1
AK Sado Maru, Shell hits 1
xAK Minryo Maru, Shell hits 6, on fire

Allied Ships
DD Farenholt
DD Caldwell
DD Dale, Shell hits 1
DD Worden
DD MacDonough, Shell hits 4, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DD Dewey, Shell hits 6, heavy fires


In the morning massive Japanese sweeps hits Vancouver as predicted. Sadly our P40s there decide not to sweep back. The P38s do go in. But results are again...underwhelming. Quite disappointed in how our P38s did.

quote:

Afternoon Air attack on Coal Harbour , at 204,49

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid spotted at 35 NM, estimated altitude 21,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 8 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 36
A6M2-N Rufe x 6

Allied aircraft
P-38E Lightning x 11

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 2 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-38E Lightning: 4 destroyed


CAP is as you can see very, very weak. Our B17s go in...but the heavy rain and AA means little result.

quote:

Afternoon Air attack on Coal Harbour , at 204,49

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid detected at 30 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 9 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 29
A6M2-N Rufe x 6

Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 25

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-21-IIa Sally: 1 destroyed on ground

Allied aircraft losses
B-17E Fortress: 13 damaged

Airbase hits 4
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 3


This is followed by the usual fragmented gazillion strikes. Not much is lost as the CAP don´t have time to react. But the airfield is barely scratched. I´ll take the VPs though. Good day in that regards thanks to RAF work in India.

------------------------
India
------------------------
Good day here when the RAF catches some LRCAP up in the North!

quote:

Afternoon Air attack on 8th Tank Regiment, at 53,28 , near Benares

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid spotted at 33 NM, estimated altitude 21,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 7 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 8
Ki-43-IIa Oscar x 3

Allied aircraft
Hurricane IIc Trop x 14

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 1 destroyed
Ki-43-IIa Oscar: 2 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Hurricane IIc Trop: 1 destroyed


About 15 Zeroes shot down for only 1 Hurricane! Good work.

------------------------
SOPAC
------------------------
We bag a PB outside Vanikoro. 10 VPs. I´ll take it.

I shouldn´t complain really. Despite not closing CH I´m +13 VPs today and Japanese AV ratio drops below 3,3 for the first time in months.








Attachment (1)

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 1569
RE: Canada and India invaded! - 1/8/2016 4:45:57 PM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		I´ll try to answer the questions tomorrow. Really busy tonight but I wanted to get the update up.

(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 1570
RE: Canada and India invaded! - 1/8/2016 7:16:33 PM   
Capt. Harlock


Posts: 5358
Joined: 9/15/2001
From: Los Angeles
Status: offline
quote:

First all my DDs clashed with a small transport TF defended by some Japanese DDs. Results are...underwhelming.


You have my sympathies, but let's face it: DD vs DD combat in early August '42 generally does not go the way the Allies would like.

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(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 1571
RE: Canada and India invaded! - 1/8/2016 9:37:55 PM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline 		In my experience... that CAP still being up, even though it was relatively light (still 35 planes!), is what caused your bombers to miss. More so than heavy rain (which doesn't seem to have THAT much of an effect, unlike Thunderstorms) or the AA. The AA doesn't seem to mess with aim so much as cause damage. I'm sure it does affect hit rate, but I've noticed a far larger effect from 1) CAP, and 2) Thunderstorms. In that order.

(in reply to Capt. Harlock)
Post #: 1572
RE: Canada and India invaded! - 1/9/2016 4:06:28 AM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

At Coal Harbor, would a SCTF, followed by DMS TF, a bombardment TF and then a DM or two laying mines be effective? Should the DMS go first, separately or be included in both the SCTF and the Bombardment group? If they went in at full speed, they should be able to get back under your CAP, correct? Close the port until your mines are cleared as well as doing damage to the port, airfield and airplanes as well destroying supplies.



It depends on if he has any CD guns at CH. If he does any minesweeping would be suicidal!

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 1573
RE: Canada and India invaded! - 1/9/2016 4:09:50 AM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

In my experience... that CAP still being up, even though it was relatively light (still 35 planes!), is what caused your bombers to miss. More so than heavy rain (which doesn't seem to have THAT much of an effect, unlike Thunderstorms) or the AA. The AA doesn't seem to mess with aim so much as cause damage. I'm sure it does affect hit rate, but I've noticed a far larger effect from 1) CAP, and 2) Thunderstorms. In that order.


Might be right. I think my numbers are bit on the small side too. Only 90 4Es in total. Probably expecting a little bit too much from them.


(in reply to Lokasenna)
Post #: 1574
RE: Canada and India invaded! - 1/9/2016 4:15:46 AM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		VPs
______________________________________________________________________________

As I said I really shouldn´t complain. We are steadily making progress in the VP department.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by JocMeister -- 1/9/2016 6:25:07 AM >

(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 1575
RE: Canada and India invaded! - 1/9/2016 5:38:38 AM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		Coal Harbor
______________________________________________________________________________

I´ve pretty much decided to give up for now trying to close it from the air. We have parity in actual number of fighters in the area but quality wise the allies are lagging.

This is what swept Vancouver last turn.

quote:

Afternoon Air attack on Vancouver , at 209,49

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid detected at 19 NM, estimated altitude 22,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 7
Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 42

No Japanese losses

Aircraft Attacking:
42 x Ki-44-IIa Tojo sweeping at 20000 feet

Afternoon Air attack on Vancouver , at 209,49

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid detected at 22 NM, estimated altitude 23,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 7 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 36

No Japanese losses

Aircraft Attacking:
36 x A6M2 Zero sweeping at 20000 feet



If I want to close CH I will need to wear down his CAP. This is probably not something I can achieve without crippling losses. Besides Japanese strat bombing has been anemic at best and I think his OP and flak losses are greater then his gains.

So at least for now I´ll revert to trying to ambush his bombers. Next month the P40K arrives which is a tremendous step up for the Allies.

(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 1576
RE: Canada and India invaded! - 1/9/2016 9:25:51 AM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		Plus, if he is keeping his best pilots there with lots of planes, they aren't somewhere else. You only get better in pilots, airframes and anti-aircrafts. You get to use those permanently restricted air units for things other than ASW and training.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 1577
RE: Canada and India invaded! - 1/9/2016 12:35:14 PM   
ny59giants


Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline 		I just had almost even numbers of Tojo vs P-40Ks over Cox's Bazar at 20k. Since you are playing with altitude restrictions, the "K" came out with 6:1 kills which should help you out in the next few months once this model comes out.

_____________________________


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Post #: 1578
RE: Canada and India invaded! - 1/9/2016 2:11:07 PM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		18 hours without nicotine. Not.feeling.good.

(in reply to ny59giants)
Post #: 1579
RE: Canada and India invaded! - 1/9/2016 2:25:06 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

Plus, if he is keeping his best pilots there with lots of planes, they aren't somewhere else. You only get better in pilots, airframes and anti-aircrafts. You get to use those permanently restricted air units for things other than ASW and training.

Not sure it is all going to be easier for the Allies. Lowpe is an experienced Japanese player and knows how to manage the industry to produce advanced fighters early. This may mean a counter to the P-40K is not far off.
Good point about the perm restricted air units.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 1580
RE: Canada and India invaded! - 1/9/2016 3:05:51 PM   
poodlebrain

 

Posts: 392
Joined: 10/4/2012
From: Comfy Chair in Baton Rouge
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

If I want to close CH I will need to wear down his CAP.


Looking at the combat reports from your sweeps of Coal Harbor, it appears he doesn't have radar detection. The time to target is pretty short so scrambling additional fighters should be a no go. So it may not be necessary for you to wear them out if you can overwhelm them for a single phase. You might achieve better results sweeping with the P-38s at high altitude and attacking the AF with an escorted ground strike at lower altitude. The sequencing of the missions will have a huge impact on the success, but it might be worth the risks involved.

_____________________________

Never trust a man who's ass is wider than his shoulders.

(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 1581
RE: Canada and India invaded! - 1/10/2016 3:28:16 AM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

In my experience... that CAP still being up, even though it was relatively light (still 35 planes!), is what caused your bombers to miss. More so than heavy rain (which doesn't seem to have THAT much of an effect, unlike Thunderstorms) or the AA. The AA doesn't seem to mess with aim so much as cause damage. I'm sure it does affect hit rate, but I've noticed a far larger effect from 1) CAP, and 2) Thunderstorms. In that order.


Might be right. I think my numbers are bit on the small side too. Only 90 4Es in total. Probably expecting a little bit too much from them.




I've completely shut down airfields with "only" 40-50 4Es on several occasions .

(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 1582
RE: Canada and India invaded! - 1/10/2016 7:30:07 AM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		6th August -42
______________________________________________________________________________

Very little to report.

------------------------
NORPAC
------------------------
Looks like Jeff is pulling out his navy from NORPAC. That is a bit surprising. I would have assumed he would reinforce rather then back down.

I know he has some BBs up here as they have been bombarding Prince Rupert from time to time. Perhaps he needs the DDs to escort them. I´ll try to do something here next turn.

Sinking sound were heard this turn. Perhaps on of the DDs put on fire burned down?


------------------------
India
------------------------
Arrrgh! The AI decides to send everything (including the 1st Marines) via a route that gets them stuck on some Paras Jeff dropped a while back. So now I have to pull them from strat mode and move them back or attack and let Jeff know the 1st Marines are in India. Stupid AI...grrrr!

------------------------
SOPAC
------------------------
Have to rearrange my forces on Noumea a bit as we are overstacked. Don´t want to burn supply for nothing. Some armor and engineers move to LaFoa. No sight of the enemy.

B26s hit Belep Island disabling some squads.






Attachment (1)

(in reply to Lokasenna)
Post #: 1583
RE: Canada and India invaded! - 1/10/2016 1:47:33 PM   
ny59giants


Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline 		Ground Movement - You should know by now that the AI will move troops when given a choice along the easiest/quickest route possible.

_____________________________


(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 1584
RE: Canada and India invaded! - 1/10/2016 2:35:47 PM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

Ground Movement - You should know by now that the AI will move troops when given a choice along the easiest/quickest route possible.


Yeah, but I sent some BFs a while back and they arrived going around the paras.

(in reply to ny59giants)
Post #: 1585
RE: Canada and India invaded! - 1/10/2016 4:10:18 PM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		7th August -42
______________________________________________________________________________

Plodding along...

------------------------
NORPAC
------------------------
Jeff was a little careless with some of his retiring DDs...

quote:

Morning Air attack on TF, near Alliford Bay at 195,49

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid spotted at 2 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 0 minutes

Allied aircraft
SB2U-3 Vindicator x 15

No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
DD Umikaze, Bomb hits 2, on fire
DD Suzukaze, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Asagumo, Bomb hits 3, and is sunk

------------------------------------------------------------------

Morning Air attack on TF, near Alliford Bay at 195,49

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid spotted at 16 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes

Allied aircraft
SBD-3 Dauntless x 15

No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
DD Suzukaze, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
DD Umikaze, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Morning Air attack on TF, near Alliford Bay at 195,49

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid spotted at 12 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 4 minutes

Allied aircraft
SBD-3 Dauntless x 15

No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
DD Suzukaze, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Umikaze, Bomb hits 2, and is sunk



Pretty sure the 3rd one sunk too. Good haul. In preparation of this I swept Allford bay to clear possible LRCAP. I was expecting a smallish leaking CAP from CH. I was wrong...

quote:

Morning Air attack on Alliford Bay , at 199,46

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid spotted at 41 NM, estimated altitude 23,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 14 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 36
Ki-43-IIa Oscar x 10
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 13

Allied aircraft
Kittyhawk I x 14

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-43-Ic Oscar: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Kittyhawk I: 4 destroyed


A second Kittyhawk sweep does a little better. This is followed up by a good P40E sweep. The day ends with a 1-1. I like the VPs but the losses are bit on the steep side.

------------------------
India
------------------------
Looks like he is finally coming for Ledo! 8 units looking to cross. I have 580 AV behind level 3 forts in x3 terrain all 100% prepped. Could turn costly for him. Fingers crossed...

------------------------
SOPAC
------------------------
Quiet.






Attachment (1)

(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 1586
RE: Canada and India invaded! - 1/10/2016 6:29:05 PM   
JeffroK


Posts: 6391
Joined: 1/26/2005
Status: offline 		Are we fixated on Coal Harbour, any recon on the bases further up the coast?

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(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 1587
RE: Canada and India invaded! - 1/10/2016 10:26:08 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister


quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

Ground Movement - You should know by now that the AI will move troops when given a choice along the easiest/quickest route possible.


Yeah, but I sent some BFs a while back and they arrived going around the paras.

I know they go around the enemy in MOVE mode, but can't divert in STRAT mode.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 1588
RE: Canada and India invaded! - 1/10/2016 11:34:59 PM   
ny59giants


Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline 		I've developed somewhat of a soft spot for those old Vindicators. It's nice to see them get hits at 8 to 10 hexes away.

_____________________________


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Post #: 1589
RE: Canada and India invaded! - 1/11/2016 5:53:41 AM   
CaptBeefheart


Posts: 2301
Joined: 7/4/2003
From: Seoul, Korea
Status: offline 		It's too bad the Allies don't get more "Vibrators." Although it may not have been well liked in real life, with its long ferry and attack ranges, it's great in this game.

Cheers,
CC

_____________________________

Beer, because barley makes lousy bread.

(in reply to ny59giants)
Post #: 1590
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