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Decisive Campaigns: Barbarossa or GG war in the East?

 
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Decisive Campaigns: Barbarossa or GG war in the East? - 2/10/2016 7:41:10 PM   
djxput

 

Posts: 19
Joined: 8/31/2004
Status: offline 		Which one to get and why?

I know different games for different folks. Little background. I generally prefer the grandscale WWII game like strategic command or loved europe commander at war or ... clash of steel.

So for those that played both; which do you prefer and why?

thanks - like to get one of these soon. (oh I only play single player)

< Message edited by djxput -- 2/10/2016 8:56:13 PM >
Post #: 1
RE: Decisive Campaigns: Barbarossa vs GG war in the East - 2/10/2016 7:58:11 PM   
Remmes


Posts: 285
Joined: 2/11/2011
From: NL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: djxput

oh I only play single player


I own both and I like the single player experience from DC:B much more than WITE. The scope of WITE makes it a work of art, but for me DC:B is more fun.

(in reply to djxput)
Post #: 2
RE: Decisive Campaigns: Barbarossa vs GG war in the East - 2/10/2016 8:33:13 PM   
Philippeatbay


Posts: 855
Joined: 12/3/2014
Status: offline 		There are two things to take into consideration.

1) How many decisions are you comfortable making in a turn, and how long do you want a game to last in real time ?

How you answer that question has a strong influence on which game you will buy.

I don't play the GG games because as attractive as they are (or can be with Jison's mod) I'm past the point where I just buy a game to pull out the map and look at all the pretty counters. If I buy something I want to be able to play it, and play it to conclusion. You can play the first six months of the East Front war with DC Barbarossa in about week of real life game time. I shudder to think how long that would take in War in the East. On a similar note, I would love to own and play War In the Pacific Admiral's Edition, and drool every time I look at screenshots. But then I remember that I never managed to reorganize my life to play the older version (the non-Admiral's Edition of War in the Pacific). And I don't really have a problem with micro-managing, it's just a question of scale.

2) DC Barbarossa isn't war on the Eastern Front with fewer counters. It's the point of the spear of a whole new approach to wargaming.

Sure, there's plenty of counter-shuffling going on, but your relationship with how you go about moving those counters is completely different, and you'll find yourself thinking about how to wage war in way that's a complete departure from anything you've encountered in any other wargame (or, if you insist, it's the reductio ad absurdum of the game system Vic developed in DC1 and DC2). It's such a refreshing and radically different approach you won't even mind too much when the designer rides roughshod over a few of your favorite groggy betes-noir. And it will give you a lot of insight into what commanders really have to deal with.



< Message edited by Philippe at bay -- 2/10/2016 9:34:40 PM >

(in reply to Remmes)
Post #: 3
RE: Decisive Campaigns: Barbarossa vs GG war in the East - 2/10/2016 9:32:26 PM   
FeurerKrieg


Posts: 3397
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Denver, CO
Status: offline 		I'm a long time WITP and WITP-AE player and mainly picked this up because I knew I didn't have time for another game of WITP scale, but wanted to start learning about the east front.

I got so much more than I expected.

This notion of being in a historical role and having to balance the need/wants/moods of both superiors and subordinates is so refreshing. I've been in management for most of my career and I can tell you balancing Wagner and Gerke is just like dealing with the IT department vs the Marketing department.

I look forward to more games that use this model in other theaters. Seems like there would be some real potential for a post war middle east game using these models, but I digress from the original question.

If you like games that take years, and the detail that goes with it, then go for WITE (or better yet, switch to WITP-AE - best game ever!) If you a looking for something that will make you feel like an actual officer in the war machine, and let you run the course of it in a couple weeks real time, then get DC.

_____________________________


Upper portion used with permission of www.subart.net, copyright John Meeks

(in reply to Philippeatbay)
Post #: 4
RE: Decisive Campaigns: Barbarossa vs GG war in the East - 2/10/2016 9:49:00 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ramses


quote:

ORIGINAL: djxput

oh I only play single player


I own both and I like the single player experience from DC:B much more than WITE. The scope of WITE makes it a work of art, but for me DC:B is more fun.
warspite1

+1


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to Remmes)
Post #: 5
RE: Decisive Campaigns: Barbarossa or GG war in the East? - 2/10/2016 11:54:51 PM   
battlevonwar


Posts: 1041
Joined: 12/22/2011
Status: offline 		Played Strategic Command 1 & 2, Clash of Steel, Third Reich, Commander Europe At War... This is not a Grand Strategy game like they are from the 90s.(Strategic Command 3 will be out in a year or two) I think if you really love that Time of Fury, Time of Wraith will fit your ETO desires with a little bit more micro detail. Of course they're not popular anymore and this is and the map and detail here is nice.(it's smooth and easy to play) This plays out the start of Operation Barbarossa as the name says. It's interesting and a different approach(you're administrator and a battlefield tactician in a way) which in those games you're God...

I would not mind to see this encompass the entirety of the war. Hearts of Iron Darkest Hour is a very beautiful war game that is massive but RTS and covers a huge map(and is still highly popular) I played that for years in one form or another. More like Empire building though when it comes to Paradox games rather than history at all.


quote:

ORIGINAL: djxput

Which one to get and why?

I know different games for different folks. Little background. I generally prefer the grandscale WWII game like strategic command or loved europe commander at war or ... clash of steel.

So for those that played both; which do you prefer and why?

thanks - like to get one of these soon. (oh I only play single player)


(in reply to djxput)
Post #: 6
RE: Decisive Campaigns: Barbarossa or GG war in the East? - 2/11/2016 9:11:08 AM   
djxput

 

Posts: 19
Joined: 8/31/2004
Status: offline 		thanks guys for the input - glad I asked here. def steer me toward Decisive Campaigns: Barbarossa. I am looking forward to strategic command 3 been waiting for that for years but this looks like a Great game too just dont know much about it.

(in reply to battlevonwar)
Post #: 7
RE: Decisive Campaigns: Barbarossa or GG war in the East? - 2/11/2016 11:16:47 AM   
nukkxx5058


Posts: 2932
Joined: 2/3/2005
From: France
Status: offline 		DCB, no hesitation.

Won't repeat what I already said so check my former posts to know why :-)
DCB is the greatest WW2 wargame ever. Period :-)

(in reply to djxput)
Post #: 8
RE: Decisive Campaigns: Barbarossa or GG war in the East? - 2/11/2016 4:09:56 PM   
wgfred


Posts: 21
Joined: 10/12/2013
Status: offline 		I enjoy both but to answer your question based on your preferences I would suggest DC:B.

WITE requires a much larger investment of time to learn and play, since it also, normally, doesn't end in January 1942.


(in reply to nukkxx5058)
Post #: 9
RE: Decisive Campaigns: Barbarossa or GG war in the East? - 2/13/2016 1:10:16 PM   
CaptCarnage

 

Posts: 335
Joined: 5/24/2011
Status: offline 		Well, WITE requires a larger investment of time and effort *if you play the full campaign".

This is a point that must be highlighted: I have had wonderful times playing smaller scenarios in WITE. In DCB you have no choice but to play the Grand Campaign.
Play small 10-turn scenarios with clear goals? WITE is your game.
Play as AGS commander only? -> WITE is your game.
Play something past 1942 in a smaller 20 turn scenario? WITE is your game.
WITE also takes more time because it extends beyond January 1942.

I love them both, but they have similarities and differences of course.



< Message edited by Skyhigh -- 2/13/2016 2:12:00 PM >

_____________________________

"One must always distrust the report of troop commanders: 'We have no fuel' [...] You see, if they become tired they suddenly lack fuel" - Heinz Guderian, Panzer Leader

(in reply to wgfred)
Post #: 10
RE: Decisive Campaigns: Barbarossa or GG war in the East? - 2/13/2016 2:30:36 PM   
budd


Posts: 2972
Joined: 7/4/2009
From: Tacoma
Status: offline 		I enjoy both. I only play the small medium scenarios in WITE. DCB has more personality, if you want to just push counters go WITE, want to role play a bit go DCB. There both pretty easy to get up and running pushing counters, playing well is another matter.

_____________________________

Enjoy when you can, and endure when you must. ~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

"Be Yourself; Everyone else is already taken" ~Oscar Wilde

*I'm in the Wargamer middle ground*
I don't buy all the wargames I want, I just buy more than I need.

(in reply to CaptCarnage)
Post #: 11
RE: Decisive Campaigns: Barbarossa or GG war in the East? - 2/14/2016 5:06:29 PM   
stormbringer3

 

Posts: 875
Joined: 7/26/2007
From: Staunton, Va.
Status: offline 		I gave up on WITE because the air war was broken. Also, IMO properly managing the support units made the game needlessly complicated.

(in reply to budd)
Post #: 12
RE: Decisive Campaigns: Barbarossa or GG war in the East? - 2/16/2016 5:53:30 PM   
Killjoy12

 

Posts: 118
Joined: 7/11/2003
Status: offline 		Are the smaller scenarios in the base game, or do they require one of the expansions?


quote:

ORIGINAL: Skyhigh

Well, WITE requires a larger investment of time and effort *if you play the full campaign".

This is a point that must be highlighted: I have had wonderful times playing smaller scenarios in WITE. In DCB you have no choice but to play the Grand Campaign.
Play small 10-turn scenarios with clear goals? WITE is your game.
Play as AGS commander only? -> WITE is your game.
Play something past 1942 in a smaller 20 turn scenario? WITE is your game.
WITE also takes more time because it extends beyond January 1942.

I love them both, but they have similarities and differences of course.




(in reply to CaptCarnage)
Post #: 13
RE: Decisive Campaigns: Barbarossa or GG war in the East? - 2/16/2016 6:27:21 PM   
CaptCarnage

 

Posts: 335
Joined: 5/24/2011
Status: offline 		There are enough in the base game already.

You can play the 3 theaters seperately already in he Road to Moscow, Leningrad, Kiev scenarios and there are a number of others too.

_____________________________

"One must always distrust the report of troop commanders: 'We have no fuel' [...] You see, if they become tired they suddenly lack fuel" - Heinz Guderian, Panzer Leader

(in reply to Killjoy12)
Post #: 14
RE: Decisive Campaigns: Barbarossa or GG war in the East? - 2/16/2016 8:10:37 PM   
SuluSea


Posts: 2358
Joined: 11/17/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Killjoy12

Are the smaller scenarios in the base game, or do they require one of the expansions?





Yes, plenty of them, you get a lot of bang for your money with all the smaller scenarios.

There are also two DLC's Lost Battles and Don to the Danube.
When they go on sale you can score them for $9.99 and they have plenty of historical based small scenarios.

Just looking over the options in pick your scenario there are 40 different choices with both add ons. One of them being the tutorial.

< Message edited by SuluSea -- 2/16/2016 9:21:21 PM >

(in reply to Killjoy12)
Post #: 15
RE: Decisive Campaigns: Barbarossa or GG war in the East? - 2/16/2016 8:25:23 PM   
demyansk


Posts: 2840
Joined: 2/20/2008
Status: offline 		Sky,

How do you play only AGS? If you have it on a campaign game dont you still need to manage the other two theaters?

(in reply to SuluSea)
Post #: 16
RE: Decisive Campaigns: Barbarossa or GG war in the East? - 2/16/2016 8:31:32 PM   
SuluSea


Posts: 2358
Joined: 11/17/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: demjansk

Sky,

How do you play only AGS? If you have it on a campaign game dont you still need to manage the other two theaters?

I believe he was speaking about the three road to scenarios being in separate theatres.

I'd like to add .....

I'm not an owner of DC:B yet but as much as I love WITE & taking into account that a new version is in the works,
I do have a hard time recommending it over a game that's fresh and that I don't own.

If I had money to spare with neither game and only looking at East Front games
I'd buy DC:B and WITE 2 when it comes out.



< Message edited by SuluSea -- 2/17/2016 3:44:03 AM >

(in reply to demyansk)
Post #: 17
RE: Decisive Campaigns: Barbarossa or GG war in the East? - 2/23/2016 7:12:05 PM   
Killjoy12

 

Posts: 118
Joined: 7/11/2003
Status: offline 		Big sale on, so it may be time to pick this one up. If I were to only pick up one of the expansions - which one has more smaller-scale scenarios? Thanks!


quote:

ORIGINAL: SuluSea

quote:

ORIGINAL: Killjoy12

Are the smaller scenarios in the base game, or do they require one of the expansions?





Yes, plenty of them, you get a lot of bang for your money with all the smaller scenarios.

There are also two DLC's Lost Battles and Don to the Danube.
When they go on sale you can score them for $9.99 and they have plenty of historical based small scenarios.

Just looking over the options in pick your scenario there are 40 different choices with both add ons. One of them being the tutorial.


(in reply to SuluSea)
Post #: 18
RE: Decisive Campaigns: Barbarossa or GG war in the East? - 2/24/2016 4:41:16 PM   
SuluSea


Posts: 2358
Joined: 11/17/2006
Status: offline 		Hi, I noticed WITE was at a great price. Hard to pass up if you're on the fence.

Don to the Danube has Operation Uranus, which is a favorite small scenario of mine and Kharkov. Lost Battles has Smolensk and Moscow which I enjoy. Looking at both titles and the refreshing my mind what scenarios are included in both I believe Lost Battles gives you better entertainment value for the monies spent.

Best of luck!

(in reply to Killjoy12)
Post #: 19
RE: Decisive Campaigns: Barbarossa or GG war in the East? - 2/24/2016 6:23:58 PM   
Killjoy12

 

Posts: 118
Joined: 7/11/2003
Status: offline 		Thanks!

(in reply to SuluSea)
Post #: 20
RE: Decisive Campaigns: Barbarossa or GG war in the East? - 2/26/2016 12:31:23 AM   
mannerheim4

 

Posts: 83
Joined: 9/16/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: demjansk

Sky,

How do you play only AGS? If you have it on a campaign game dont you still need to manage the other two theaters?


Road to Kiev scenario...

I think WITE has a much more realistic combat engine. The DC engine needs work and I believe that there are a number of issues that I addressed elsewhere. Blitzkrieg and combined arms is much better simulated in WITE. But the strategic level decisions of DC makes it intriguing.

(in reply to demyansk)
Post #: 21
RE: Decisive Campaigns: Barbarossa or GG war in the East? - 2/26/2016 12:33:03 AM   
mannerheim4

 

Posts: 83
Joined: 9/16/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: demjansk

Sky,

How do you play only AGS? If you have it on a campaign game dont you still need to manage the other two theaters?


Sure, if you play the campaign game. You can play as an Army Group or as the entire German/Soviet Army. If you play as the Soviets, it becomes interesting because you actually build the units to plug the gaps. So you have a lot of flexibility not normally available.

(in reply to demyansk)
Post #: 22
RE: Decisive Campaigns: Barbarossa or GG war in the East? - 3/31/2016 6:48:00 PM   
Templer_12


Posts: 1700
Joined: 1/5/2009
From: Germany
Status: offline 		Perhaps this podcast here is useful as an additional decision support:
-> https://www.idlethumbs.net/3ma/episodes/decisive-campaigns-barbarossa

(in reply to mannerheim4)
Post #: 23
RE: Decisive Campaigns: Barbarossa or GG war in the East? - 3/31/2016 7:28:30 PM   
ernieschwitz

 

Posts: 3893
Joined: 9/15/2009
From: Denmark
Status: offline
quote:

This is a point that must be highlighted: I have had wonderful times playing smaller scenarios in WITE. In DCB you have no choice but to play the Grand Campaign.


This is not entirely true. You do have choices. Since the game comes with the (still in Beta version) DC:CP. The CP or Community Project will over time allow players to play many small games, or even (yes!) make their own.

Currently only 2 scenarios exist. But given time that amount could grow enormously.

(in reply to CaptCarnage)
Post #: 24
RE: Decisive Campaigns: Barbarossa or GG war in the East? - 3/31/2016 7:51:52 PM   
mikeCK

 

Posts: 565
Joined: 5/20/2008
Status: offline 		Definitely DC:B. War in the East requires more micromanagement but that doesn't make it deeper. DCB adds so many Elements missing in the form of card decisions requiring politics points as well as decisions that are made via paperwork on your desk. Makes you feel like a general instead of a guy moving chits

(in reply to ernieschwitz)
Post #: 25
RE: Decisive Campaigns: Barbarossa or GG war in the East? - 3/31/2016 10:31:24 PM   
Templer_12


Posts: 1700
Joined: 1/5/2009
From: Germany
Status: offline 		WitE is monotonic counter pushing, DCB is an experience.

(in reply to mikeCK)
Post #: 26
RE: Decisive Campaigns: Barbarossa or GG war in the East? - 4/1/2016 3:01:07 PM   
SuluSea


Posts: 2358
Joined: 11/17/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Templer

WitE is monotonic counter pushing, DCB is an experience.

Different strokes for different folks I guess.

I bought DC;B during the Happy Easter sale and it hasn't worked for me thus far, the political system
I'm just not a fan. I prefer the artwork, realistic detail and counters of WITE. Hopefully , my feelings
change as I get more familiar.

(in reply to Templer_12)
Post #: 27
RE: Decisive Campaigns: Barbarossa or GG war in the East? - 4/22/2016 11:58:57 AM   
Templer_12


Posts: 1700
Joined: 1/5/2009
From: Germany
Status: offline 		... or... simply is the wrong question.

Decisive Campaigns: Barbarossa and Gary Grigsby War in the East fighting both while World War II and you are dealing with the Eastern Front.
Then there are already all similarities between the two games.

Maybe you can compare Decisive Campaigns: Case Blue with Gary Grigsby War in the East, but not Decisive Campaigns: Barbarossa.

(in reply to djxput)
Post #: 28
RE: Decisive Campaigns: Barbarossa or GG war in the East? - 4/22/2016 12:15:11 PM   
Rosseau

 

Posts: 2757
Joined: 9/13/2009
Status: offline 		To most people this may not matter, but I spent my first two months with WitE's editor. Currently, DC:B does not have Vic's trademark editor, which is also top notch.

I would go with DC:B and consider GG's WitW, which is more "polished," but not East Front of course.

(in reply to Templer_12)
Post #: 29
RE: Decisive Campaigns: Barbarossa or GG war in the East? - 4/22/2016 12:25:15 PM   
ernieschwitz

 

Posts: 3893
Joined: 9/15/2009
From: Denmark
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rosseau

To most people this may not matter, but I spent my first two months with WitE's editor. Currently, DC:B does not have Vic's trademark editor, which is also top notch.

I would go with DC:B and consider GG's WitW, which is more "polished," but not East Front of course.


That is actually false info. It does have an editor, you just need to unlock it.

(in reply to Rosseau)
Post #: 30
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